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barney captain
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Fri May 08, 2020 7:22 pm

It isn't the first time - March 13, 1990 -- An Alaska Airlines plane hit and killed a person on runway at Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport. The victim was a mental patient illegally on the field.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
SwissCanuck
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Fri May 08, 2020 7:26 pm

SwissCanuck wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
On liveatc.net, it starts at 11:45 into the archive for Tower #1 at AUS, with DL819 (an A220 with a very clear radio) calling in and being cleared to land. WN is given taxi instructions and says "standby". WN then tells TWR that they believe there's a person on the runway. TWR tells DL819 to go around, and asks where WN sees the person. WN says, "Well, they're behind us, they're behind us now." (Uh...yeah.) TWR then asks them if they saw the person as they were touching down. WN answers affirmative. Interestingly, when TWR gives them taxi instructions to get to the gate, they say that they just want to pull off on Golf and hold position. Sounds possible that they saw (or heard or felt or imagined) more than they were willing to say on the radio, and didn't want to leave the scene.

The emergency response unfolds from there.

The interviews with the passengers on the left side of the plane are going to be interesting. Horrifying.


11:45 into which archive? what's the zulu time?


To answer my own question, 11:45 into the 01h00-01h30 Z archive. The delta transmissions are clear, the southwest ones are almost unintelligeable on LiveATC. But the above interpretation is believable.
 
Lofty
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Fri May 08, 2020 8:37 pm

What I can't understand is why the tower gave taxi permission when you had a possible person on the airfield, that should have been a ground stop. I can't also understand why the flight crew did not ask for an inspection before taxiing to stand,
 
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aeromoe
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Fri May 08, 2020 8:40 pm

FluidFlow wrote:
...this is a relatively small damage or the nacelle is really sturdy.


Why can't both be true?
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barney captain
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Fri May 08, 2020 9:52 pm

Lofty wrote:
What I can't understand is why the tower gave taxi permission when you had a possible person on the airfield, that should have been a ground stop. I can't also understand why the flight crew did not ask for an inspection before taxiing to stand,


The crew likely knew the person *ahem* no longer an issue, as they stated "He's behind us on the runway". What would an inspection reveal that they wouldn't discover 60 seconds later at the gate where they could safely deplane people? Unless it was delayed by a "ground stop".
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rampbro
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Fri May 08, 2020 10:28 pm

RIP to the deceased, condolences to family and friends. Everything else is noise.
 
barney captain
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Fri May 08, 2020 10:53 pm

rampbro wrote:
RIP to the deceased, condolences to family and friends. Everything else is noise.


Well said.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
wjcandee
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Fri May 08, 2020 11:06 pm

SwissCanuck wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
On liveatc.net, it starts at 11:45 into the archive for Tower #1 at AUS, with DL819 (an A220 with a very clear radio) calling in and being cleared to land. WN is given taxi instructions and says "standby". WN then tells TWR that they believe there's a person on the runway. TWR tells DL819 to go around, and asks where WN sees the person. WN says, "Well, they're behind us, they're behind us now." (Uh...yeah.) TWR then asks them if they saw the person as they were touching down. WN answers affirmative. Interestingly, when TWR gives them taxi instructions to get to the gate, they say that they just want to pull off on Golf and hold position. Sounds possible that they saw (or heard or felt or imagined) more than they were willing to say on the radio, and didn't want to leave the scene.

The emergency response unfolds from there.

The interviews with the passengers on the left side of the plane are going to be interesting. Horrifying.


11:45 into which archive? what's the zulu time?


I'm terribly sorry. I should have made the details more clear: KAUS "Tower #1" archive. Zulu time for the archive is 0100-0130. Date is May 8, because Thursday night is early Friday morning Zulu time.

And then roll the archive forward to 11:45 minutes into it.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Fri May 08, 2020 11:11 pm

Lofty wrote:
What I can't understand is why the tower gave taxi permission when you had a possible person on the airfield, that should have been a ground stop. I can't also understand why the flight crew did not ask for an inspection before taxiing to stand,


Ground Control doesn’t “give permission”; they give a clearance based on traffic, not on the unknown damage to the airplane. The crew makes the call as to the airworthiness to taxi. Clearly, the person was not on a taxi route this crew might be cleared to use. I hit a deer once on touch and go in C-5, left gear down, taxied in, Fire crew hosed off the gear. Done for the night local. None of this a big deal.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Fri May 08, 2020 11:15 pm

barney captain wrote:
Lofty wrote:
What I can't understand is why the tower gave taxi permission when you had a possible person on the airfield, that should have been a ground stop. I can't also understand why the flight crew did not ask for an inspection before taxiing to stand,


The crew likely knew the person *ahem* no longer an issue, as they stated "He's behind us on the runway". What would an inspection reveal that they wouldn't discover 60 seconds later at the gate where they could safely deplane people? Unless it was delayed by a "ground stop".


To add to this excellent observation, the pilots initially only reported that they "saw" someone on the runway, not that they had hit them. But they decided to pull off and stop at Golf because, it is a reasonable expectation, they had a sense that they had hit them and didn't want to leave the scene. (As one pilot-poster here noted, you're not driving an oil supertanker and you can feel when you hit stuff.) The tower (at about 18:00) later told them that he hadn't heard anything yet as Ops was checking the runway, and it was only then that they accepted the taxi permission to the gate and a phone number to talk to the tower supervisor. Shortly thereafter, Ops found the body. (There's no announcement of that, but in the 22 minute range the tower tells a FedEx DC10 that it's probably going to be a lengthy closure on 17R, which means they had probably found the body by then. The FedEx flight was ultimately-cancelled.) So it was kind of a timing thing. The runways at AUS are pretty-far-apart, so it's not absurd to continue to taxi planes and to allow landings on the left. However, as you noted, the tower immediately send DL around, and she landed some time later on the Left runway.
 
chrisjake
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 12:42 am

wjcandee wrote:
SwissCanuck wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
On liveatc.net, it starts at 11:45 into the archive for Tower #1 at AUS, with DL819 (an A220 with a very clear radio) calling in and being cleared to land. WN is given taxi instructions and says "standby". WN then tells TWR that they believe there's a person on the runway. TWR tells DL819 to go around, and asks where WN sees the person. WN says, "Well, they're behind us, they're behind us now." (Uh...yeah.) TWR then asks them if they saw the person as they were touching down. WN answers affirmative. Interestingly, when TWR gives them taxi instructions to get to the gate, they say that they just want to pull off on Golf and hold position. Sounds possible that they saw (or heard or felt or imagined) more than they were willing to say on the radio, and didn't want to leave the scene.

The emergency response unfolds from there.

The interviews with the passengers on the left side of the plane are going to be interesting. Horrifying.


11:45 into which archive? what's the zulu time?


I'm terribly sorry. I should have made the details more clear: KAUS "Tower #1" archive. Zulu time for the archive is 0100-0130. Date is May 8, because Thursday night is early Friday morning Zulu time.

And then roll the archive forward to 11:45 minutes into it.


Thanks, I heard it now. My mistake was not realizing that it was 5/8.
 
jetwet1
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 12:44 am

Oh boy, I just looked at the picture, not a good way to go, I don't even want to think what is handing out of the cowling on that engine.

I feel sorry for all involved, including the mechanics who are going to have to work on that engine.

Question for the pilots here : When there is an incidence like this, is the flight crew pulled from active duty ? I would assume so, if only for reports and to talk to someone, i'm sure the pilots are in no condition (mentally) to fly.
 
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pwm2txlhopper
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 12:46 am

727231 wrote:
Years ago at PDX myself and one of my ramp guys were standing under one of our TWA L1011's at about 2am when he pointed at the runway and said hey, what is that? we looked as thus guy came walking up to us from across runway 10L/28R carrying a gas can. Said he ran out of gas on Marine drive and was wondering if we knew where he could find some. Told my ramp guy to wait with him and I will call someone who can help, the airport police. Don't know if he ever got his gas.


I remember about 20 years ago, I was about 18 and my friend and I found a hole in the fence by the GA FBO ramp at PWM about 3 a.m one morning when we were hanging out all night driving around. We climbed through, walked out on the GA ramp and then, even out on the main runway and taxiways. Wasn’t a sole around.

Don’t know what would have happened if we’d been caught. It would probably be a lot worse in the post 9/11 world.
 
GoSharks
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 2:19 am

wjcandee wrote:
SwissCanuck wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
On liveatc.net, it starts at 11:45 into the archive for Tower #1 at AUS, with DL819 (an A220 with a very clear radio) calling in and being cleared to land. WN is given taxi instructions and says "standby". WN then tells TWR that they believe there's a person on the runway. TWR tells DL819 to go around, and asks where WN sees the person. WN says, "Well, they're behind us, they're behind us now." (Uh...yeah.) TWR then asks them if they saw the person as they were touching down. WN answers affirmative. Interestingly, when TWR gives them taxi instructions to get to the gate, they say that they just want to pull off on Golf and hold position. Sounds possible that they saw (or heard or felt or imagined) more than they were willing to say on the radio, and didn't want to leave the scene.

The emergency response unfolds from there.

The interviews with the passengers on the left side of the plane are going to be interesting. Horrifying.


11:45 into which archive? what's the zulu time?


I'm terribly sorry. I should have made the details more clear: KAUS "Tower #1" archive. Zulu time for the archive is 0100-0130. Date is May 8, because Thursday night is early Friday morning Zulu time.

And then roll the archive forward to 11:45 minutes into it.

Surprised this wasn't posted already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxsNCCZ958o
 
PhilMcCrackin
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 2:27 am

BrazilExPat wrote:
I’m also doubting they were ingested by the engine. Does anybody recall the photos of the ramper that was ingested by the the engine of a CO 737-500 in ELP, circa 2003 ish?
Gruesome does not even begin to describe it.


Yeah, I remember those. It turned him into hamburger meat. At least he was dead before he even knew what happened.
 
AR385
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 4:18 am

It´s a selfish way to go, due to the potential accident the collision could have generated. But as far as a "good way to go", it probably is. I can´t think of a more painless and quickest way to go. He probably never even felt the collision with the the engine. And it seems it hit it twice.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 4:28 am

bob75013 wrote:
Reports I heard on Dallas TV news this morning indicated that the pilot did see the victim, tried to avoid, but could not.


That poor flight crew, though. It doesn't sound like there's anything they could have done. Would have been hard to see someone walking around in street clothes on a runway at night (no reflective vest, or hand-held light) until they were right on top of him and trying to avoid such an obstacle in a speeding 737 is almost impossible.

And yet...those pilots will have this incident haunting them in their sleep for a long time. Ask me about the ghosts of patients who I could not save who haunt my dreams over a decade later.
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"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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bennett123
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 4:36 am

A guy I know is a train driver who had a similar situation, doubt he will ever get over it completely.
 
Lofty
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 9:49 am

I can't believe a possible unauthorised person on the airfield and the airport did not go into a ground stop and lock down after a clear security breach! Had this happened in the UK (and its has) we would have put a ground stop on and locked down the terminals.
 
kiowa
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 12:49 pm

GoSharks wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
SwissCanuck wrote:

11:45 into which archive? what's the zulu time?


I'm terribly sorry. I should have made the details more clear: KAUS "Tower #1" archive. Zulu time for the archive is 0100-0130. Date is May 8, because Thursday night is early Friday morning Zulu time.

And then roll the archive forward to 11:45 minutes into it.

Surprised this wasn't posted already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxsNCCZ958o


They hit a man and made it sound like nothing happened??? The guy could have still been alive and died because it took so long for medical teams to arrive. With that damage, the pilots and everyone on the airplane knew they hit someone or something major. The runway needed to be shut down right then and the tower needed to know that right then. Why risk another aircraft landing hitting the man?
 
nine4nine
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 2:24 pm

kiowa wrote:
GoSharks wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

I'm terribly sorry. I should have made the details more clear: KAUS "Tower #1" archive. Zulu time for the archive is 0100-0130. Date is May 8, because Thursday night is early Friday morning Zulu time.

And then roll the archive forward to 11:45 minutes into it.

Surprised this wasn't posted already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxsNCCZ958o


They hit a man and made it sound like nothing happened??? The guy could have still been alive and died because it took so long for medical teams to arrive. With that damage, the pilots and everyone on the airplane knew they hit someone or something major. The runway needed to be shut down right then and the tower needed to know that right then. Why risk another aircraft landing hitting the man?


What are they supposed to do? Lose their composure start sobbing and moaning and groaning? And how do you know what was felt or known by anyone on the plane. Between hitting the imperfections on the runway surface, the thrust reversers, shifting of carry ons and the loud rattling of the overhead bins I guarantee you nobody felt a thing suspecting it was a person. The flight crew I’m sure knew there may have been a chance, but outside of that I highly doubt anyone knew a thing till they got to the gate.
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EA CO AS
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 2:36 pm

Ugh, more “journalism” at work:

https://people.com/human-interest/man-h ... ay-austin/

Airport spokesman Bryce Dubee told the Associated Press that officials do not believe the man was supposed to be on the runway when he was hit.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 2:41 pm

Lofty wrote:
I can't believe a possible unauthorised person on the airfield and the airport did not go into a ground stop and lock down after a clear security breach! Had this happened in the UK (and its has) we would have put a ground stop on and locked down the terminals.


Until you know a person is on the airfield, you can't do a darn thing about it. Clearly they didn't know the person was there when this happened.
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zuckie13
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 3:20 pm

kiowa wrote:
GoSharks wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

I'm terribly sorry. I should have made the details more clear: KAUS "Tower #1" archive. Zulu time for the archive is 0100-0130. Date is May 8, because Thursday night is early Friday morning Zulu time.

And then roll the archive forward to 11:45 minutes into it.

Surprised this wasn't posted already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxsNCCZ958o


They hit a man and made it sound like nothing happened??? The guy could have still been alive and died because it took so long for medical teams to arrive. With that damage, the pilots and everyone on the airplane knew they hit someone or something major. The runway needed to be shut down right then and the tower needed to know that right then. Why risk another aircraft landing hitting the man?


I'm not sure what you are getting at. No other aircraft landed after that one. They were still on the runway going to turn off when they told the tower it sounds like, and the tower sent the next landing aircraft around. There really wasn't anything more they could have done. They needed to get the aircraft slowed before doing anything else. Aviate comes first.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 4:09 pm

zuckie13 wrote:
I'm not sure what you are getting at. No other aircraft landed after that one. They were still on the runway going to turn off when they told the tower it sounds like, and the tower sent the next landing aircraft around.


:checkmark: And then the very next thing was that the tower sent a ground ops vehicle to investigate.

I'll point out one other thing: the person was pronounced Dead on Scene. In most jurisdictions, EMS personnel have very limited authority to pronounce patients dead and it takes a very obvious fatal injury to make that pronouncement. So while I don't know what kind of shape they found the guy in, it must have been very bad. I don't envy anyone involved in this situation.
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mxaxai
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 4:23 pm

DocLightning wrote:
I'll point out one other thing: the person was pronounced Dead on Scene. In most jurisdictions, EMS personnel have very limited authority to pronounce patients dead and it takes a very obvious fatal injury to make that pronouncement. So while I don't know what kind of shape they found the guy in, it must have been very bad. I don't envy anyone involved in this situation.

Simulated birdstrikes often replace the bird with a viscuous liquid, comparable to soft jelly. Granted, human bones are slightly more sturdy than those of birds, but I'd expect any body part that makes contact with the leading edge at 200+ km/h to be turned into mincemeat. You don't even need to run it through the engine to achieve that. If it hits the neck you could easily decapitate the person.
 
kiowa
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 4:35 pm

nine4nine wrote:
kiowa wrote:
GoSharks wrote:
Surprised this wasn't posted already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxsNCCZ958o


They hit a man and made it sound like nothing happened??? The guy could have still been alive and died because it took so long for medical teams to arrive. With that damage, the pilots and everyone on the airplane knew they hit someone or something major. The runway needed to be shut down right then and the tower needed to know that right then. Why risk another aircraft landing hitting the man?


What are they supposed to do? Lose their composure start sobbing and moaning and groaning? And how do you know what was felt or known by anyone on the plane. Between hitting the imperfections on the runway surface, the thrust reversers, shifting of carry ons and the loud rattling of the overhead bins I guarantee you nobody felt a thing suspecting it was a person. The flight crew I’m sure knew there may have been a chance, but outside of that I highly doubt anyone knew a thing till they got to the gate.



Nope, just tell the tower what happened. A life was lost and they had no idea at the time if he could be saved or not. Achnowledge the impact. The pictures and the audio justify that.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 5:43 pm

kiowa wrote:
GoSharks wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

I'm terribly sorry. I should have made the details more clear: KAUS "Tower #1" archive. Zulu time for the archive is 0100-0130. Date is May 8, because Thursday night is early Friday morning Zulu time.

And then roll the archive forward to 11:45 minutes into it.

Surprised this wasn't posted already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxsNCCZ958o


They hit a man and made it sound like nothing happened??? The guy could have still been alive and died because it took so long for medical teams to arrive. With that damage, the pilots and everyone on the airplane knew they hit someone or something major. The runway needed to be shut down right then and the tower needed to know that right then. Why risk another aircraft landing hitting the man?


The runway was shut down right away. Tower sent the DL flight around, and moved all landings to the other runway, which isn't close by. Rather than taxi to the gate, the crew vacated the runway and held in position.
 
GoSharks
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 7:48 pm

kiowa wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
kiowa wrote:

They hit a man and made it sound like nothing happened??? The guy could have still been alive and died because it took so long for medical teams to arrive. With that damage, the pilots and everyone on the airplane knew they hit someone or something major. The runway needed to be shut down right then and the tower needed to know that right then. Why risk another aircraft landing hitting the man?


What are they supposed to do? Lose their composure start sobbing and moaning and groaning? And how do you know what was felt or known by anyone on the plane. Between hitting the imperfections on the runway surface, the thrust reversers, shifting of carry ons and the loud rattling of the overhead bins I guarantee you nobody felt a thing suspecting it was a person. The flight crew I’m sure knew there may have been a chance, but outside of that I highly doubt anyone knew a thing till they got to the gate.



Nope, just tell the tower what happened. A life was lost and they had no idea at the time if he could be saved or not. Achnowledge the impact. The pictures and the audio justify that.

I find it hard to believe that you would be able to feel an impact of a 100kg object hitting a 40000 kg plane,
 
WNbob
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 8:17 pm

kiowa wrote:
GoSharks wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
They hit a man and made it sound like nothing happened??? The guy could have still been alive and died because it took so long for medical teams to arrive. With that damage, the pilots and everyone on the airplane knew they hit someone or something major. The runway needed to be shut down right then and the tower needed to know that right then. Why risk another aircraft landing hitting the man?


Well if you are going to be emotional about it... the same reason you don't immediately hit the brakes at a busy highway at first sign of trouble, 'cause is dangerous, and plenty of people die by secondary collisions. Gotta keep your wits during emergencies as the SW crew did.
 
bennett123
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 8:27 pm

EA CO AS

Ugh, more “journalism” at work:

https://people.com/human-interest/man-h ... ay-austin/

Airport spokesman Bryce Dubee told the Associated Press that officials do not believe the man was supposed to be on the runway when he was hit.

Do these jounos really HAVE to ask these sort of questions?.

Unless he was an airport employee, then it is most unlikely that he is supposed to be there.
 
bennett123
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 8:31 pm

wjcandee

It is most unlikely that anyone would have survived the initial impact given the size/weight of a B737, and the speed that it would be moving at.
 
Cdydatzigs
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Re: KAUS Fatality

Sat May 09, 2020 8:40 pm

Ishrion wrote:


Welp, this would explain why first responders said the man was "obviously dead" upon arriving. Must have been quite a scene.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 11:10 pm

WNbob wrote:
kiowa wrote:
GoSharks wrote:


Well if you are going to be emotional about it... the same reason you don't immediately hit the brakes at a busy highway at first sign of trouble, 'cause is dangerous, and plenty of people die by secondary collisions. Gotta keep your wits during emergencies as the SW crew did.


I didn't say what you quoted me as saying; it was somebody else. If you're gonna edit the quotes, please do your best to ascribe them to the correct person. Thanks!
 
wjcandee
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sat May 09, 2020 11:11 pm

bennett123 wrote:
wjcandee

It is most unlikely that anyone would have survived the initial impact given the size/weight of a B737, and the speed that it would be moving at.


I didn't write the thing that was ascribed to me. The guy did a bad job editing the quotation, and I got tagged with a thought I did not express.
 
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vatveng
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Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sun May 10, 2020 12:58 am

bennett123 wrote:

Airport spokesman Bryce Dubee told the Associated Press that officials do not believe the man was supposed to be on the runway when he was hit.

Do these jounos really HAVE to ask these sort of questions?.

Unless he was an airport employee, then it is most unlikely that he is supposed to be there.


It likely wasn't a response to a question at all. That sounds like something the airport spokesperson would say up front in the initial statement.

And if he didn't, then YES journalists do have to ask the question. They don't work at an airport, and neither do most of their readers/listeners/viewers. They don't know if the person hit was an airport employee unless they ask. They don't know if there may or may not have been runway maintenance happening at the time, possibly requiring the presence of one or more people on the runway, unless they ask. They don't know if a person on the runway was part of a larger security breach that could possibly escalate into a full shutdown of the airport unless they ask. They are non-aviation people trying to make sense of something terrible that happened at an airport and explain it to a general public that has little to no working knowledge of airport procedures. Just because you and I know how airports work doesn't mean everyone does.
 
Lrockeagle
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:40 am

Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sun May 10, 2020 12:59 am

GoSharks wrote:
kiowa wrote:
nine4nine wrote:

What are they supposed to do? Lose their composure start sobbing and moaning and groaning? And how do you know what was felt or known by anyone on the plane. Between hitting the imperfections on the runway surface, the thrust reversers, shifting of carry ons and the loud rattling of the overhead bins I guarantee you nobody felt a thing suspecting it was a person. The flight crew I’m sure knew there may have been a chance, but outside of that I highly doubt anyone knew a thing till they got to the gate.



Nope, just tell the tower what happened. A life was lost and they had no idea at the time if he could be saved or not. Achnowledge the impact. The pictures and the audio justify that.

I find it hard to believe that you would be able to feel an impact of a 100kg object hitting a 40000 kg plane,

I’d suggest you not find things “hard to believe” until you have hit something with an aircraft. This likely made a good bit of noise. That inlet is much stronger than the skin of the aircraft and that’s a heck of a dent
Lrockeagle
14 years ago

I got $20 says AA takes their 787's with GE powerplants. Just a hunch. Any takers?
 
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gunsontheroof
Posts: 3638
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sun May 10, 2020 1:00 am

bennett123 wrote:
EA CO AS

Ugh, more “journalism” at work:

https://people.com/human-interest/man-h ... ay-austin/

Airport spokesman Bryce Dubee told the Associated Press that officials do not believe the man was supposed to be on the runway when he was hit.

Do these jounos really HAVE to ask these sort of questions?.

Unless he was an airport employee, then it is most unlikely that he is supposed to be there.


It might seem a bit obvious, but it's probably something the folks at AUS want to make clear. If the individual involved was authorized to be on the runway for maintenance, FOD check or something else operation-related, it's on them to make sure no aircraft are operating on that runway, so they want to emphasize that that was not the case. RIP to the deceased.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
jetwet1
Posts: 3181
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sun May 10, 2020 3:45 am

I find it hard to believe that you would be able to feel an impact of a 100kg object hitting a 40000 kg plane,[/quote]

Not really when you think of the amount of energy when a 40000kg object hits a 100 kg object at 150 mph. The forces transferred would certainly be felt through the plane.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1609
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sun May 10, 2020 4:03 am

I wonder if the CVR and FDR data was captured? Would help in validating the Southwest story that the crew took evasion and when they actually noticed this individual on the runway.
 
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September11
Posts: 3649
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sun May 10, 2020 4:55 am

Sorry to hear this mishap unfold
Airliners.net of the Future
 
DUSdude
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 4:20 am

Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sun May 10, 2020 5:33 am

GoSharks wrote:
kiowa wrote:
nine4nine wrote:

What are they supposed to do? Lose their composure start sobbing and moaning and groaning? And how do you know what was felt or known by anyone on the plane. Between hitting the imperfections on the runway surface, the thrust reversers, shifting of carry ons and the loud rattling of the overhead bins I guarantee you nobody felt a thing suspecting it was a person. The flight crew I’m sure knew there may have been a chance, but outside of that I highly doubt anyone knew a thing till they got to the gate.



Nope, just tell the tower what happened. A life was lost and they had no idea at the time if he could be saved or not. Achnowledge the impact. The pictures and the audio justify that.

I find it hard to believe that you would be able to feel an impact of a 100kg object hitting a 40000 kg plane,


It's called kinetic energy. You're forgetting the speed parameter.
 
questions
Posts: 2337
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: KAUS Fatality

Sun May 10, 2020 6:32 am

Image

Without being morbid can someone explain the damage in the photograph?

The nacelle and cowl lip are dented as if hit externally. Lower, in orange paint, a portion of the nacelle appears blown out. How was the individual hit and what happened internally or externally to cause this type of damage to the engine?
 
chrisair
Posts: 2147
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sun May 10, 2020 7:37 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I hit a deer once on touch and go in C-5, left gear down, taxied in, Fire crew hosed off the gear. Done for the night local. None of this a big deal.


Oh deer. I’m sure the deer disagrees with it not being a big deal. :D

EA CO AS wrote:
Ugh, more “journalism” at work:

https://people.com/human-interest/man-h ... ay-austin/

Airport spokesman Bryce Dubee told the Associated Press that officials do not believe the man was supposed to be on the runway when he was hit.


Don’t be dense. It’s a good question. It sure seems silly to the reader, because duh, why would someone be on a runway, but when the AP writer asked the question, nobody knew much of anything except a plane hit a person on the runway.

bennett123 wrote:
Do these jounos really HAVE to ask these sort of questions?.


Yes.

This will fall on deaf ears but I’ll write it anyway in the hope it helps someone understand how news gathering works. Source: plenty of newspaper and wire bylines to my name, even though I’m not currently in the field.

The only goal at first is to fill out the basic framework. The what, who (if you can), when and how. The why comes later and that’s when you get to dig.

First question you ask: what happened and when did it happen. You very well know what and when it happened, but you need to get someone on the record to say it so you can cross check the initial info. Usually at something like this, the press conference will hit all the main points. During the presser, they’ll likely say “we don’t think this person had permission to be there.” That opens the door for you to ask follow up questions if they allow it.

Followup question: “Are people ever allowed on the runway?” Answer: “Occasionally operations does sweeps to check for stuff that shouldn’t be there.” Followup 2: “Was this person an operations employee who was given permission to be there?” Answer: “we’re investigating, but at this time this person isn’t affiliated with ABIA and shouldn’t have been there.” Reason you ask this question: someone could have screwed up. Is it likely? No, but screwups happen from time to time. With that you have a basic framework and can then bug the WN media relations people for a quote and off it goes to be misinterpreted by people on Airliners.net, who think you’re a bumbling idiot.
 
GoSharks
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:23 am

Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sun May 10, 2020 8:52 am

DUSdude wrote:
GoSharks wrote:
kiowa wrote:


Nope, just tell the tower what happened. A life was lost and they had no idea at the time if he could be saved or not. Achnowledge the impact. The pictures and the audio justify that.

I find it hard to believe that you would be able to feel an impact of a 100kg object hitting a 40000 kg plane,


It's called kinetic energy. You're forgetting the speed parameter.

Exactly, the plane has so much kinetic energy that hitting an un-anchored, 100kg object isn't going to do a whole lot to the plane's KE. At most, it is a bump or shudder in the airframe? How is that easy to notice when you're in the process of landing?

Running a simple 1-d inelastic collision, and assuming 150mph or 67 m/s velocity, a 40000 kg plane hitting a stationary 100 kg object will decelerate to 149mph or 66.7m/s. You're telling a person is capable of noticing that during a landing?

If you cut the speeds in half (33.5m/s), the resulting speed of the plane after an inelastic collision is 33.3m/s. And this is hardly a perfectly inelastic collision in reality.
 
EZYAirbus
Posts: 2328
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2003 4:57 am

Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sun May 10, 2020 8:45 pm

Acey wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
The interviews with the passengers on the left side of the plane are going to be interesting. Horrifying.


Would you even see anything out the port side windows at 200 mph in the dark? Would have happened pretty quick.


If you are rolling out at that speed something gone seriously wrong, take up and around for another go
http://www.glenneldridgeaviation.com
 
jumpseat67
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:07 pm

Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Sun May 10, 2020 9:11 pm

kiowa wrote:
GoSharks wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

I'm terribly sorry. I should have made the details more clear: KAUS "Tower #1" archive. Zulu time for the archive is 0100-0130. Date is May 8, because Thursday night is early Friday morning Zulu time.

And then roll the archive forward to 11:45 minutes into it.

Surprised this wasn't posted already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxsNCCZ958o


They hit a man and made it sound like nothing happened??? The guy could have still been alive and died because it took so long for medical teams to arrive. With that damage, the pilots and everyone on the airplane knew they hit someone or something major. The runway needed to be shut down right then and the tower needed to know that right then. Why risk another aircraft landing hitting the man?


I prefer my pilots to be professional at and during work at all times, no matter the situation. Thankfully during hundreds of briefings, many medicals and a handful of emergencies...that's what I get. The next panicked pilot I speak with would be the first, again thankfully.
 
kiowa
Posts: 739
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: Person killed by plane on runway at Austin

Mon May 11, 2020 3:23 pm

jumpseat67 wrote:
kiowa wrote:
GoSharks wrote:
Surprised this wasn't posted already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxsNCCZ958o


They hit a man and made it sound like nothing happened??? The guy could have still been alive and died because it took so long for medical teams to arrive. With that damage, the pilots and everyone on the airplane knew they hit someone or something major. The runway needed to be shut down right then and the tower needed to know that right then. Why risk another aircraft landing hitting the man?


I prefer my pilots to be professional at and during work at all times, no matter the situation. Thankfully during hundreds of briefings, many medicals and a handful of emergencies...that's what I get. The next panicked pilot I speak with would be the first, again thankfully.


I do not know how many pilots you employ but to achnowledge that you hit and possibly killed a man is not a panic radio call and could potentially save a life.

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