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Chugach
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ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sat May 09, 2020 5:12 pm

AS will start ANC-CDB on May 16, 2x weekly as has been reported in some other threads.

The flight will continue on to ADK, meaning the ANC-ADK nonstop will discontinue after this week.

Good on AS for standing up this service so quickly.
 
32andBelow
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sat May 09, 2020 6:05 pm

How did they get tsa screening worked out?
 
Chugach
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sat May 09, 2020 7:03 pm

32andBelow wrote:
How did they get tsa screening worked out?


No idea, but I’d wager that they would probably fly out from ANC. Since this flight is combined with ADK, maybe one set of TSA agents will handle both cities?
 
32andBelow
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sat May 09, 2020 7:09 pm

Chugach wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
How did they get tsa screening worked out?


No idea, but I’d wager that they would probably fly out from ANC. Since this flight is combined with ADK, maybe one set of TSA agents will handle both cities?

Yah but does cdb have any screening equipment?

This is still not going to be anywhere near enough lift for DUT/KVC/SDP. Good luck buying a ticket to ADK. They will also lose out on their EAS contract. Or a portion of it.
 
TWA902fly
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sat May 09, 2020 7:18 pm

ADK does not have screening equipment - everyone has to check in 4 hours prior to the flight so everything can get searched by hand. The TSA agents that fly in on a flight flies out on one day, and works the flight a few days later, and the next one, its a week long rotation. The police officer comes from ANC and does not stay on ADK. I assume a similar arrangement can happen on Cold Bay.

This information is true as of last August when we flew out to ADK, spoke with both the TSA agent and police officer on the flight.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
chrisp390
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sat May 09, 2020 7:41 pm

What on earth is in cold bay to justify this flight? Last I saw 100 people live there, the Alaska flight will have this many seats available on one flight.
 
joeblow10
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sat May 09, 2020 7:47 pm

chrisp390 wrote:
What on earth is in cold bay to justify this flight? Last I saw 100 people live there, the Alaska flight will have this many seats available on one flight.


Uh - have you flown in Alaska before? You realize Adak is the same sort of setup?

With the loss of Ravn - somebody has to step in to fill the gap in remote Alaska. This doesn’t nearly accomplish that, but at least it allows some connectivity to a few rural villages.
 
32andBelow
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sat May 09, 2020 8:04 pm

chrisp390 wrote:
What on earth is in cold bay to justify this flight? Last I saw 100 people live there, the Alaska flight will have this many seats available on one flight.

Now look up king cove, sand point, Dutch harbor, and a Akutan. Then google crab fishing, and trident seafoods.
 
ricq
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sat May 09, 2020 8:46 pm

Looks like they are charging in the $500 - $650 range (first few weeks at least) for rt ANC-CDB on a 737-700 with middle seats currently blocked off (in the seat preview window).
 
32andBelow
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sat May 09, 2020 8:48 pm

ricq wrote:
Looks like they are charging in the $500 - $650 range (first few weeks at least) for rt ANC-CDB on a 737-700 with middle seats currently blocked off (in the seat preview window).

Sounds accurate. And they’ll fill it in 3 seconds. Summer fishing season is starting
 
ytib
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sat May 09, 2020 8:49 pm

Here is the DOT approval for adding the CDB stop as part of the ADK EAS service.
Full document: https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -8556-0248

Decision
The Department will approve Alaska Airlines’ request, which meets the three conditions necessary for approval under authority assigned under 14 CFR Part 385.12(h)(3) of the Department’s Regulations: (1) the alternate service pattern is equal or greater than that determined to be essential; (2) the communities affected do not object to the alternate service pattern; and (3) the alternate service pattern will not increase Alaska Airlines’ subsidy. Because the Department is allowing the alternate service pattern and not requiring it, Alaska Airlines may revert to the original service pattern at any time. This Order is issued under authority delegated to the Director, Office of Aviation Analysis in 14 CFR Part 385.12(h)(3).
318, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 388, 707, 717, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73Q, 735, 73G, 738, 7M8, 739, 752, 753, 742, 74L, 744, 762, 763, 772, 77L, 77W, 789, 142, CN1, CR2, CR7, DC8, DH2, DH8, D8Q, D10, D95, EM2, ER3, ER4, E70, 100, J31, M11, M83, M88, M90, SF3
 
Chugach
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sat May 09, 2020 9:05 pm

TWA902fly wrote:
ADK does not have screening equipment - everyone has to check in 4 hours prior to the flight so everything can get searched by hand. The TSA agents that fly in on a flight flies out on one day, and works the flight a few days later, and the next one, its a week long rotation. The police officer comes from ANC and does not stay on ADK. I assume a similar arrangement can happen on Cold Bay.

This information is true as of last August when we flew out to ADK, spoke with both the TSA agent and police officer on the flight.

'902


Thanks for the insight!
 
Chugach
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sat May 09, 2020 9:06 pm

chrisp390 wrote:
What on earth is in cold bay to justify this flight? Last I saw 100 people live there, the Alaska flight will have this many seats available on one flight.


This isn’t about serving Cold Bay, it’s about Dutch Harbor. CDB just happens to be the nearest runway to DUT that can handle a modern 737.
 
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OA940
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sat May 09, 2020 9:50 pm

Pardon my sillyness, but what exactly is preventing 737s from flying into DUT? I mean AS did it with 732s, and 737s fly into similarly-sized runways nowadays as well (SDU is a good example). Is it a wingspan issue or something?
A350/CSeries = bae
 
Chugach
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sat May 09, 2020 10:37 pm

As an aside, I believe Cold Bay will supplant Adak as the smallest community in the USA with commercial scheduled mainline jet service. Cold Bay has a population of 108.
 
32andBelow
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sat May 09, 2020 10:49 pm

Chugach wrote:
chrisp390 wrote:
What on earth is in cold bay to justify this flight? Last I saw 100 people live there, the Alaska flight will have this many seats available on one flight.


This isn’t about serving Cold Bay, it’s about Dutch Harbor. CDB just happens to be the nearest runway to DUT that can handle a modern 737.

You realize sand point and king cove residents will book as well. This thing is gonna be a mess. King cove is fairly large. And there is lots of fishing in both king cove and and point. Not to mention akutan which has a trident plant.
 
32andBelow
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sat May 09, 2020 10:50 pm

OA940 wrote:
Pardon my sillyness, but what exactly is preventing 737s from flying into DUT? I mean AS did it with 732s, and 737s fly into similarly-sized runways nowadays as well (SDU is a good example). Is it a wingspan issue or something?

The approach has you fly right around a mountain and half the year there is snow and ice.
 
Chugach
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 12:13 am

OA940 wrote:
Pardon my sillyness, but what exactly is preventing 737s from flying into DUT? I mean AS did it with 732s, and 737s fly into similarly-sized runways nowadays as well (SDU is a good example). Is it a wingspan issue or something?


DUT is narrow (only 100 feet wide) and has no ILS and no straight in approach or departure, all in a region that has some of the most notorious flying conditions anywhere in the world.

A 73G could probably do it from a performance standpoint, but I believe the other issue is the ramp there is too small for a next-gen 737.
 
TWA902fly
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 4:49 am

Chugach wrote:
TWA902fly wrote:
ADK does not have screening equipment - everyone has to check in 4 hours prior to the flight so everything can get searched by hand. The TSA agents that fly in on a flight flies out on one day, and works the flight a few days later, and the next one, its a week long rotation. The police officer comes from ANC and does not stay on ADK. I assume a similar arrangement can happen on Cold Bay.

This information is true as of last August when we flew out to ADK, spoke with both the TSA agent and police officer on the flight.

'902


Thanks for the insight!


No problem. Adak was one of the most absurd places I've ever been. We have a penchant for places like Adak, Svalbard, Molokai, but Adak - with its abandoned military infrastructure is just absurd. Once that Alaska Airlines 737 that we flew in on left (that had 9 passengers on it including the TSA agent and police officer), we were completely cut off from the world. We stayed in a rented "townhouse" that was the only inhabitable one on the "street", all the other ones were in various states of being retaken by nature. Imagine cookie cutter suburbia, except you wake up and there's been an apocalypse, and you were the only one to survive. All of this set in the magical scenery of the Aleutian islands.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
sprxUSA
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 5:01 am

TWA902fly wrote:
Chugach wrote:
TWA902fly wrote:
ADK does not have screening equipment - everyone has to check in 4 hours prior to the flight so everything can get searched by hand. The TSA agents that fly in on a flight flies out on one day, and works the flight a few days later, and the next one, its a week long rotation. The police officer comes from ANC and does not stay on ADK. I assume a similar arrangement can happen on Cold Bay.

This information is true as of last August when we flew out to ADK, spoke with both the TSA agent and police officer on the flight.

'902


Thanks for the insight!


No problem. Adak was one of the most absurd places I've ever been. We have a penchant for places like Adak, Svalbard, Molokai, but Adak - with its abandoned military infrastructure is just absurd. Once that Alaska Airlines 737 that we flew in on left (that had 9 passengers on it including the TSA agent and police officer), we were completely cut off from the world. We stayed in a rented "townhouse" that was the only inhabitable one on the "street", all the other ones were in various states of being retaken by nature. Imagine cookie cutter suburbia, except you wake up and there's been an apocalypse, and you were the only one to survive. All of this set in the magical scenery of the Aleutian islands.

'902



Did you swing by the abandoned McDonald's, assuming it is still there. It would have been interesting to be there during its heyday.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
32andBelow
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 5:13 am

sprxUSA wrote:
TWA902fly wrote:
Chugach wrote:

Thanks for the insight!


No problem. Adak was one of the most absurd places I've ever been. We have a penchant for places like Adak, Svalbard, Molokai, but Adak - with its abandoned military infrastructure is just absurd. Once that Alaska Airlines 737 that we flew in on left (that had 9 passengers on it including the TSA agent and police officer), we were completely cut off from the world. We stayed in a rented "townhouse" that was the only inhabitable one on the "street", all the other ones were in various states of being retaken by nature. Imagine cookie cutter suburbia, except you wake up and there's been an apocalypse, and you were the only one to survive. All of this set in the magical scenery of the Aleutian islands.

'902



Did you swing by the abandoned McDonald's, assuming it is still there. It would have been interesting to be there during its heyday.

There’s lots of photos of these track homes on google. I recommend everyone Check them out.

They recently just auctioned a bunch of furniture and things from adak.
 
TWA902fly
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 5:54 am

sprxUSA wrote:
TWA902fly wrote:
Chugach wrote:

Thanks for the insight!


No problem. Adak was one of the most absurd places I've ever been. We have a penchant for places like Adak, Svalbard, Molokai, but Adak - with its abandoned military infrastructure is just absurd. Once that Alaska Airlines 737 that we flew in on left (that had 9 passengers on it including the TSA agent and police officer), we were completely cut off from the world. We stayed in a rented "townhouse" that was the only inhabitable one on the "street", all the other ones were in various states of being retaken by nature. Imagine cookie cutter suburbia, except you wake up and there's been an apocalypse, and you were the only one to survive. All of this set in the magical scenery of the Aleutian islands.

'902



Did you swing by the abandoned McDonald's, assuming it is still there. It would have been interesting to be there during its heyday.


Sure did! It was surreal, just like everything else on that island.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
FlyHappy
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 6:35 am

32andBelow wrote:
Chugach wrote:
chrisp390 wrote:
What on earth is in cold bay to justify this flight? Last I saw 100 people live there, the Alaska flight will have this many seats available on one flight.


This isn’t about serving Cold Bay, it’s about Dutch Harbor. CDB just happens to be the nearest runway to DUT that can handle a modern 737.

You realize sand point and king cove residents will book as well. This thing is gonna be a mess. King cove is fairly large. And there is lots of fishing in both king cove and and point. Not to mention akutan which has a trident plant.


Enlighten me - why a mess? What is the dropoff from the former RAVN service - is it lack of frequency?
 
32andBelow
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 8:18 am

FlyHappy wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Chugach wrote:

This isn’t about serving Cold Bay, it’s about Dutch Harbor. CDB just happens to be the nearest runway to DUT that can handle a modern 737.

You realize sand point and king cove residents will book as well. This thing is gonna be a mess. King cove is fairly large. And there is lots of fishing in both king cove and and point. Not to mention akutan which has a trident plant.


Enlighten me - why a mess? What is the dropoff from the former RAVN service - is it lack of frequency?

Because your dropping 180 people into a village with no air terminal. Then they all have to get connecting flights to various other villages. Cold bay has hardly any lodging should the weather go down.

Ravn/penair would fly directly into DUT 2-3 times a day. And to SDP 1 a day and CDB one a day.

It’s going to take like 10 trips in a king air to move all the dut passengers. Then you have passengers coming from dut. To you need to make 10 trips in the morning DUT-CDB to move people to make the 737. Then in the afternoon you need 10 more trips CDB-DUT to move the people to DUT.

Penair had 90-135 seats year round and up to 300 seats a day to DUT during busy season.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 3:12 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Because your dropping 180 people into a village with no air terminal. Then they all have to get connecting flights to various other villages. Cold bay has hardly any lodging should the weather go down.

Ravn/penair would fly directly into DUT 2-3 times a day. And to SDP 1 a day and CDB one a day.

It’s going to take like 10 trips in a king air to move all the dut passengers. Then you have passengers coming from dut. To you need to make 10 trips in the morning DUT-CDB to move people to make the 737. Then in the afternoon you need 10 more trips CDB-DUT to move the people to DUT.

Penair had 90-135 seats year round and up to 300 seats a day to DUT during busy season.


Ah - thanks for that!
I was very much wondering about the link between those villages you mentioned and Cold Bay. King Air's, eh? Who operates those services, where are those aircraft and pilots based?

300 seat per day to Dutch Harbor - dang.

BTW - this thread got me reading late into the night about the Aleutian fishing/canning industry and the "Alaska Marine Highway". Fascinating stuff.
 
Chugach
Topic Author
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 3:22 pm

In related news, DLG now starts on 5/18 and AKN on 5/19.
 
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longhauler
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 3:54 pm

This thread brings back a lot of memories.

When I was a young lad, I spent all my money on taking “adventure” trips. In the Spring of 1975, I flew on a Reeve Aleutian DC-6B, ANC-CDB. Returning via SDP on the same day. I feared the DC-6 was quickly leaving the North American skies carrying passengers. (I think Mackey was the only other option and at the time, they couldn’t guarantee a CV440 sub wouldn’t happen).

If I recall, RV was using the YS-11 into DUT.

Living near YYZ, I got to ANC by, YYZ-YEG-ANC on AC/NW and returned ANC-ORD-YYZ on NW/AC.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
SyracuseAvGeek
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 4:00 pm

The turn in ADK with the nonstop used to be about 3hrs, not he turn in ADK is only 1hr. Will this cause delays as they fly the TSA into the city?
"I haven't been everywhere yet, but it's on my list."
 
32andBelow
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 5:01 pm

Chugach wrote:
In related news, DLG now starts on 5/18 and AKN on 5/19.

I guess all those penair employees in cdb AKN and DLG just hit the jackpot and got hired by Alaska. Since penair would turn Alaska in akn/DLG
 
Chugach
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 5:08 pm

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
The turn in ADK with the nonstop used to be about 3hrs, not he turn in ADK is only 1hr. Will this cause delays as they fly the TSA into the city?


I think it’s always been an hour turn. It was noted up thread that TSA does one week hitches in ADK.
 
Chugach
Topic Author
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 5:14 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Chugach wrote:
In related news, DLG now starts on 5/18 and AKN on 5/19.

I guess all those penair employees in cdb AKN and DLG just hit the jackpot and got hired by Alaska. Since penair would turn Alaska in akn/DLG


I believe they also hired the Ravn employees at ADQ, as they ground handled AS there.

There was an article recently where AS was quoted as saying they were trying to buy the Penair terminals in AKN and DLG. AS already owned the ADQ terminal, and CDB has a terminal that is owned by the Aleutians East Borough ( https://www.aleutianseast.org/index.asp ... F0C7061FE8 and https://www.kucb.org/post/renovations-u ... t#stream/0 )
 
snowzilla
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 5:21 pm

I wonder if Alaska will use the “new” terminal in Cold Bay...
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2229
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 5:37 pm

longhauler wrote:
This thread brings back a lot of memories.

When I was a young lad, I spent all my money on taking “adventure” trips. In the Spring of 1975, I flew on a Reeve Aleutian DC-6B, ANC-CDB. Returning via SDP on the same day. I feared the DC-6 was quickly leaving the North American skies carrying passengers. (I think Mackey was the only other option and at the time, they couldn’t guarantee a CV440 sub wouldn’t happen).

If I recall, RV was using the YS-11 into DUT.

Living near YYZ, I got to ANC by, YYZ-YEG-ANC on AC/NW and returned ANC-ORD-YYZ on NW/AC.


What a great memory that must be! When I was just out of college I did something similar...in 1979 I flew to MIA so I could take a Provincetown-Boston Airlines DC-3 to Key West. Such a beautiful trip flying low down the Keys! Unlike ADK though I stayed a couple of weeks. ;)
 
32andBelow
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 5:39 pm

snowzilla wrote:
I wonder if Alaska will use the “new” terminal in Cold Bay...

Did they ever pave the ramp there?
 
snowzilla
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 5:44 pm

32andBelow wrote:
snowzilla wrote:
I wonder if Alaska will use the “new” terminal in Cold Bay...

Did they ever pave the ramp there?

They put taxiway D and a ramp in finally, and it turns out Alaska will use that terminal.
 
32andBelow
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 8:12 pm

snowzilla wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
snowzilla wrote:
I wonder if Alaska will use the “new” terminal in Cold Bay...

Did they ever pave the ramp there?

They put taxiway D and a ramp in finally, and it turns out Alaska will use that terminal.


They were trying to get penair to pay for it for a while and penair told them no.
 
evank516
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 8:35 pm

Chugach wrote:
OA940 wrote:
Pardon my sillyness, but what exactly is preventing 737s from flying into DUT? I mean AS did it with 732s, and 737s fly into similarly-sized runways nowadays as well (SDU is a good example). Is it a wingspan issue or something?


DUT is narrow (only 100 feet wide) and has no ILS and no straight in approach or departure, all in a region that has some of the most notorious flying conditions anywhere in the world.

A 73G could probably do it from a performance standpoint, but I believe the other issue is the ramp there is too small for a next-gen 737.


EYW was, until recently, 4,801 x 100 feet and handled multiple 73Gs per day, length and width are not issues from a performance standpoint. It's airport conditions. If there's obstructions such as terrain and also snow and ice, you have other factors to worry about where the aircraft now requires more runway.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Sun May 10, 2020 10:50 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
BTW - this thread got me reading late into the night about the Aleutian fishing/canning industry and the "Alaska Marine Highway". Fascinating stuff.

If you are into this sort of thing, the State has regional long-range transportation plans that are just a blast. The State maintains ships, a railroad, airports, a shipyard (leased to private industry for operation), barge landings, dredging, winter ice roads, and easements for snow machines (with wayfinding tripods placed in fall and removed in spring).

We've got it all in one form or another. It makes for interesting, if dry, reading.
 
TWA902fly
Posts: 3123
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Re: ANC-CDB loaded on AS, starts 5/16

Mon May 11, 2020 6:53 am

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
The turn in ADK with the nonstop used to be about 3hrs, not he turn in ADK is only 1hr. Will this cause delays as they fly the TSA into the city?


See my post in one of the responses above.

The schedule usually had a 1 hour turn in ADK. For example - when I flew it last August, the flight was scheduled to arrive ADK at 4:15pm, and depart ADK at 5:15pm. The TSA agents that flew into ADK did NOT work the flight out. The schedule operates Wednesday and Saturday, the agents that fly in on Saturday (for example), work the Wednesday and following Saturday flights. They do not work the same flight they came in on. They fly back to ANC on the second flight - it is a week long rotation. The police officer comes and goes on the same flight.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on

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