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Sdmccray1984
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Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 2:49 pm

Obviously this is a pre-Covid issue, but as someone who lives under the final approach for CLT (50mil+ pax annually) I’m stunned that CLT still lacks ANY service to Asia. We are the busiest airport in the U.S that lacks Asia service(MCO has Emirates) and have been for some time. It stinks that I have to fly to JFK, IAD, etc every time I go to Asia. Even a TLV a couple times weekly would be super helpful for me. As the 2nd strongest AA hub, we can’t support even one NRT/HND/PVG/PEK/TLV? Or not even a daily CDG? Geez. Your thoughts...
 
x1234
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 2:54 pm

What businesses in CLT need Asia? What's the daily PDEW (Passengers Daily Each Way)? You need a PDEW of at least 100 for an airline to start service and long and thin service (with the 787), it only seems UA or AA have. I can't think of ANY businesses in CLT that send that many employees to Asia. The only thing I can think of is Lenovo in RDU but RDU is now well connected to ORD, DFW, IAH, LAX, SFO, ORD, SEA, IAD & JFK for Asian service. Isn't CLT mostly financial services and banking?
 
Ishrion
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 2:57 pm

Sdmccray1984 wrote:
Obviously this is a pre-Covid issue


You never know, it may have been planned right before COVID struck and just like that, the plan gets slashed.

Also, is CDG not daily? It’s seasonal, but I thought it was daily when operational?
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 2:58 pm

I think PHL to Asia would perform better than CLT.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 3:04 pm

RDU has more Asia demand than CLT
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babastud
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 3:11 pm

There is not much demand from CLT to Asia. What is can easily 1 transfer via ORD, SFO, LAX etc. CLT high numbers of passengers are a result of mostly transfers and hub serving N/S east coast and SE to mid west and some west. O+D demand for international is mostly caribean, Europe.
 
727LOVER
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 3:12 pm

Aren't they building a new runway specifically for Asia flights?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 3:15 pm

727LOVER wrote:
Aren't they building a new runway specifically for Asia flights?


Lol.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 3:24 pm

There is no Asia demand from CLT. Airlines are not going to start Asia service just because a city lacks one. That is a recipe for disaster.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 3:25 pm

It didn’t happen pre-covid, and it’s sure as sh*t ain’t gonna happen post-covid.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
cschleic
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 3:31 pm

Since the OP mentioned CLT as a hub, don't DFW and MIA cover hub activity for AA for most of those cities?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 3:33 pm

Sdmccray1984 wrote:
We are the busiest airport in the U.S that lacks Asia service...


CLT is a busy airport by virtue of a high fraction of connecting traffic, not O&D, let alone O&D to Asia. Connecting traffic AA can run thru DFW or LAX.

Compare CLT O&D volumes to the Eastern Time Zone cities that presently have service to Asia.
Last edited by MIflyer12 on Sun May 10, 2020 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
CLT704
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 3:36 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
RDU has more Asia demand than CLT


CLT has a fortress hub and rdu does not. Regardless, neither will see Asia service.
 
bigb
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 4:04 pm

Naw, lol. Two issues. One, CLT lacks a runway long enough for it. A new runway is in the plans. Two, it doesn’t fit with AA hub strategy. CLT serves southeast-mid Atlantic markets and offers north-south east coast flow without having flow folks through LGA,JFK, PHL. AA offers folks connections to Asia for east coast folks from ORD and DFW.
 
bigb
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 4:05 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
RDU has more Asia demand than CLT


You got data for that?
 
Ishrion
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 4:05 pm

bigb wrote:
AA offers folks connections to Asia for east coast folks from ORD and DFW.


LAX and DFW. All of AA's Asia flights from ORD have ended.
 
bigb
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 4:06 pm

727LOVER wrote:
Aren't they building a new runway specifically for Asia flights?


No, a longer runway is in the plans but nothing is official yet.
 
Westerwaelder
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 4:07 pm

Sdmccray1984 wrote:
Obviously this is a pre-Covid issue, but as someone who lives under the final approach for CLT (50mil+ pax annually) I’m stunned that CLT still lacks ANY service to Asia. We are the busiest airport in the U.S that lacks Asia service(MCO has Emirates) and have been for some time. It stinks that I have to fly to JFK, IAD, etc every time I go to Asia. Even a TLV a couple times weekly would be super helpful for me. As the 2nd strongest AA hub, we can’t support even one NRT/HND/PVG/PEK/TLV? Or not even a daily CDG? Geez. Your thoughts...


How much OD demand is there between CLT and Asia?
Is not one of the reasons CLT is so big the fact it's a transfer hub? Why would any Asian airline fly into a US city unless there is sufficient demand from that city?

MCO is one of the key tourist destinations in the US...CLT not so much...
 
incitatus
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 4:16 pm

The only person thinking CLT needs service to Asia is Ted Reed.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
OneAA
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 4:16 pm

AA’s main hub at DFW and West Coast hub at LAX are for Asian service. Before CLT worries about Asian service, it should focus on better European service. CLT’s European service pales in comparison to Philadelphia. CLT is mainly a lost cost, Southeast/East Coast domestic hub for AA, with some Caribbean and some leisure European service.
Last edited by OneAA on Sun May 10, 2020 4:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
HotelCharlie
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 4:24 pm

Last year, around 173,000 local passengers flew CLT-Asia-CLT, spread across the whole continent. Shanghai was number-one, with around 15,000. So, small numbers on a P2P basis, requiring even more (lower-yielding) transfer passengers who could connect at other AA hubs.

For comparison, RDU-Asia-RDU P2P was around 231,000. Beijing was the largest market, with around 24,000.

Source: MIDT via OAG Traffic Analyser.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 5:00 pm

bigb wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
Aren't they building a new runway specifically for Asia flights?


No, a longer runway is in the plans but nothing is official yet.


A longer runway isn’t really necessary for flights to East Asia. A 788 can get off of 36R on a standard day +15 (dry runway) at around 480,000 pounds. That’s plenty for NRT/ICN/PVG/PEK.
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as739x
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 5:02 pm

727LOVER wrote:
Aren't they building a new runway specifically for Asia flights?


They have a 10,000 ft runway. Not sure you'd need much more for Asia with a 777 or 787. That being said, the cost vs return on building a new runway for at most 2 daily Asia flights makes for some bad political decision.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
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c933103
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 5:12 pm

When PHX, a west coast aorport with similar enplanement count still haven't get its direct Asian service, CLT seems very unlikely
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jetawayusa
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 5:37 pm

CLT is not ATL or DFW....Even OW Japan Airline hasn't considered it in the past ... with Covid affect air service....and AA's ability to come out of this intact... CLT will not get Asia non stop service in the next decade. BTW...what Corporate Account(s) based in CLT could support/guarantee a certain amount of business travel to justify a non stop both seasonally or year round service? I am sure if the Sales team in CLT have been approached by area corporate accounts...AA would have jumped onto this opportunity. Business travel drives routes...not leisure!
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 5:55 pm

Putting COVID aside for a moment, AA has mentioned many times that DFW and CLT are the two biggest focus hubs for growth and will continue to be even as the industry eventually starts to recover from the crisis. CLT works for AA because the cost of operating there is relatively low, there is less competition, and it is geographically well located but as others have said, while it competes with and is a logical alternative to ATL, it also does not operate the way ATL does. The base of corporate origin and destination traffic does not compare. As for Asia, again, putting COVID19 aside, the demand is likely just not there. AA is weak in the TPAC market, though it has the benefit of alliances with JL, CX, and China Southern but it struggled to Asia before the virus and we'll likely see a reduced footprint post crisis. AA does not seem to able to make anything other than DFW to Asia work and it would come as no surprise if the LAX gateway sees PEK, PVG, and HKG axed permanently.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 5:58 pm

OK, trying to be nice here. CLT has horrible geography for an Asia hub. Very few things lie Southeast of Charlotte to utilize its hub efficiently. Puerto Rico (tiny market). Jacksonville FL. Miami. That's about it.

MSP, similar size market (actually larger) has more stuff to the Southeast of it. The Asia leg is significantly shorter than Charlotte's would be, and MSP has far more connect markets to its Southeast - Washington DC, Laguardia, Chicago, Memphis, St. Louis, IND, Des Moines etc.

This is why MSP has/had a couple Asia flights and Charlotte did not. Even if you assume their local demand is equal (which I'm sure it is not), the connect issue and leg distance issue are decisive.
 
bigb
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 6:07 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
OK, trying to be nice here. CLT has horrible geography for an Asia hub. Very few things lie Southeast of Charlotte to utilize its hub efficiently. Puerto Rico (tiny market). Jacksonville FL. Miami. That's about it.

MSP, similar size market (actually larger) has more stuff to the Southeast of it. The Asia leg is significantly shorter than Charlotte's would be, and MSP has far more connect markets to its Southeast - Washington DC, Laguardia, Chicago, Memphis, St. Louis, IND, Des Moines etc.

This is why MSP has/had a couple Asia flights and Charlotte did not. Even if you assume their local demand is equal (which I'm sure it is not), the connect issue and leg distance issue are decisive.


Of course, which is why AA has ORD and DFW for Asia connections for folks out east.
 
afcjets
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 6:10 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Sdmccray1984 wrote:
Obviously this is a pre-Covid issue


You never know, it may have been planned right before COVID struck and just like that, the plan gets slashed.

Also, is CDG not daily? It’s seasonal, but I thought it was daily when operational?


CDG was daily year round 20 years ago but became seasonal after 9/11.
 
afcjets
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 6:16 pm

as739x wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
Aren't they building a new runway specifically for Asia flights?


They have a 10,000 ft runway. Not sure you'd need much more for Asia with a 777 or 787. That being said, the cost vs return on building a new runway for at most 2 daily Asia flights makes for some bad political decision.


This is exactly why city leaders have been saying for well over a decade they want to build a 12,000 foot runway at CLT. They would gladly build one for one daily flight. It doesn't really matter, they were planning on building one anyway.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 6:22 pm

Theoretically, AA could probably make CLT-TYO 'work' with a 787. Recall that CLT is essentially the same metro area size as ATL was in the 1990s when they had NRT service, and I believe the AA hub is/was larger than the Delta ATL hub was in the 1990s.

But making the flight work is quite different than running the flight profitably. I'm sure they could likely fill the flight and load it with cargo, but at what cost? They simply have more profitable routes to utilize an aircraft for then risking the launch of a new Asia route.

CLT wanted to build (as did RDU) a 12,000 foot runway to serve Asian flights but the FAA declined to fund such a project deeming it as unnecessary.
afcjets wrote:
CDG was daily year round 20 years ago but became seasonal after 9/11.

Actually, the route was suspended after 9/11 and came back as a Summer seasonal in 2009 with a 762. The flight became year round in 2010/2011 IIRC and ran 3-4x weekly in the Winter season with an A332 before transitioning back to Spring/Summer/Fall only. FCO also was supposed to be a year-round service with an A330 in the Summer and a 762 in the Winter and was eventually cut back to the current Summer schedule as well.
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FSDan
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun May 10, 2020 10:32 pm

Ishrion wrote:
bigb wrote:
AA offers folks connections to Asia for east coast folks from ORD and DFW.


LAX and DFW. All of AA's Asia flights from ORD have ended.


AA does technically still offer ORD-TYO via their metal-neutral joint venture with JL. But true, they've significantly reduced their ORD-Asia footprint in recent years.

On the thread topic, I agree with others that CLT makes little sense as an Asia gateway due to geography and local demand. Another strike against it is the sheer number of other AA hubs that would be ahead of CLT in line for added Asia service. As others have mentioned, PHX and PHL both would appear to be able to support an Asia nonstop before CLT, and additional service to LAX and DFW or a resumption of flights from ORD would also likely come before CLT in priority.

The only Asia flight I could maybe see working from CLT in the medium term (after recovery from COVID-19) is TLV, but that would need to be supported almost exclusively by connections from Florida, Texas, and the rest of the South, and probably wouldn't be a winner from a revenue perspective. And there also I think CLT would be at best third in line for TLV service, after DFW-TLV is proven and a return to PHL-TLV is considered.
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jplatts
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Mon May 11, 2020 12:12 am

In addition to connecting options to TYO on AA through DFW or LAX, AA also does offer connections onto JL's ORD-HND, SFO-HND, SFO-NRT, and SEA-NRT flights from CLT.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Mon May 11, 2020 12:16 am

bigb wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
Aren't they building a new runway specifically for Asia flights?


No, a longer runway is in the plans but nothing is official yet.

The runway is official and has been shortened from its original planned length.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/n ... lotte.html
 
USAirALB
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Mon May 11, 2020 1:02 am

Somewhat unrelated, but it's interesting to think that had the AA merger not had gone through, what US would have done with their A359s they had on order. Would they have canceled the order and gone for A330neos instead? US obviously saw a need for a A359-type plane but the A330neo wasn't in the picture when they ordered their A350s. I seem to recall US talking about East Asia and India, but both of which likely would have been flown ex PHL. I also recall rumblings of US re-introducing a 3-class product on the A350s, most likely Premium Y.
FSDan wrote:
The only Asia flight I could maybe see working from CLT in the medium term (after recovery from COVID-19) is TLV, but that would need to be supported almost exclusively by connections from Florida, Texas, and the rest of the South, and probably wouldn't be a winner from a revenue perspective. And there also I think CLT would be at best third in line for TLV service, after DFW-TLV is proven and a return to PHL-TLV is considered.

At one point (before the AA merger was in the picture and when US thought TLV was a gold mine) they had seriously considered a summer seasonal CLT-TLV flight, alongside a second daily PHL-TLV flight.
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JohanTally
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Mon May 11, 2020 1:40 am

Two and a half months ago AA was suggesting that a new service between DOH and the US was likely. The only AA hubs without DOH service would be CLT and PHX so one would think that CLT was at least in play for the route or maybe it was going to be another surprise SEA addition. At this point the best CLT could possibly hope for is new Europe routes in 2022 but more likely 2023-24 with the incoming XLR.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Mon May 11, 2020 1:46 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I think PHL to Asia would perform better than CLT.


Northwest actually had the slots and A340s on order for that (PHL-NRT, seeing a 747 as too big), but canceled the A340 order (it was the only US carrier to ever order the A340 new).
 
Ishrion
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Mon May 11, 2020 1:49 am

JohanTally wrote:
Two and a half months ago AA was suggesting that a new service between DOH and the US was likely. The only AA hubs without DOH service would be CLT and PHX so one would think that CLT was at least in play for the route or maybe it was going to be another surprise SEA addition. At this point the best CLT could possibly hope for is new Europe routes in 2022 but more likely 2023-24 with the incoming XLR.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx


Except American confirmed they weren't looking at CLT-DOH.

Regarding the Doha flight, Raja said the originating city could be any one of a number of cities that include American hubs and Seattle. He said Charlotte is not a candidate, but will get more widebody international service “with some future development” that involves relieving congestion on the tarmac, where too few gates can accommodate widebody aircraft.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... 6b609028ee
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Mon May 11, 2020 3:06 am

Didn't US wanted to start a route to PEK in the last decade? Would it have been CLT to PEK?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Mon May 11, 2020 3:16 am

USAirALB wrote:
Theoretically, AA could probably make CLT-TYO 'work' with a 787. Recall that CLT is essentially the same metro area size as ATL was in the 1990s when they had NRT service, and I believe the AA hub is/was larger than the Delta ATL hub was in the 1990s.

But making the flight work is quite different than running the flight profitably. I'm sure they could likely fill the flight and load it with cargo, but at what cost? They simply have more profitable routes to utilize an aircraft for then risking the launch of a new Asia route.


Population doesn't really matter, GDP wise ATL has always been 2x or more larger than CLT. Plus, ATL actually has/d Asia demand on its own which is significantly different than CLT.
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Kbud
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Mon May 11, 2020 3:19 am

I live in CLT and fly to PVG about 4 times a year. Now I don’t think there will be passenger service to Asia from CLT in the next 5+ years, but there really are not many good connections staying on OneWorld. I’m executive platinum and try to stay on AA only because of the mileage. But there really is just one option via DFW. To make LA work you need to fly out the night before, and I’m not doing that. It really limited my options when they closed ORD service down. And because of it, the prices on AA only are super pricey. Our corporate travel agent finds options on UA via ORD, IAD, Newark, SFO and sometimes even Denver. Delta has a better schedule through Atlanta, Detroit, Seattle and LA. Not sure how Covid will impact Asia flying in 5 years, but AA is truly a minor player.
 
JohanTally
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Mon May 11, 2020 4:07 am

Ishrion wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
Two and a half months ago AA was suggesting that a new service between DOH and the US was likely. The only AA hubs without DOH service would be CLT and PHX so one would think that CLT was at least in play for the route or maybe it was going to be another surprise SEA addition. At this point the best CLT could possibly hope for is new Europe routes in 2022 but more likely 2023-24 with the incoming XLR.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx


Except American confirmed they weren't looking at CLT-DOH.

Regarding the Doha flight, Raja said the originating city could be any one of a number of cities that include American hubs and Seattle. He said Charlotte is not a candidate, but will get more widebody international service “with some future development” that involves relieving congestion on the tarmac, where too few gates can accommodate widebody aircraft.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... 6b609028ee


I forgot about Raja's statement regarding CLT. The airport does need significant infrastructure upgrades before expanding international service especially taxiway congestion relief and widebody gates with customs.
 
texdravid
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Mon May 11, 2020 5:31 am

Thenoflyzone wrote:
It didn’t happen pre-covid, and it’s sure as sh*t ain’t gonna happen post-covid.


This 100%. You have to win the useless dreaming about pre-Covid routes. The industry is in deep trouble and here you are daydreaming delusions of grandeur.
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jplatts
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Mon May 11, 2020 11:25 am

While AA is currently the only airline that has nonstop service to the West Coast from CLT, UA could add CLT-SFO nonstop service as UA has nonstop service out of SFO to some Asia-Pacific destinations such as CTU, HKG, MEL, KIX, PPT, and ICN that UA or other Star Alliance airlines do not serve nonstop from ORD, DEN, or IAH.
 
aerace
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Mon May 11, 2020 11:53 am

Ziyulu wrote:
Didn't US wanted to start a route to PEK in the last decade? Would it have been CLT to PEK?


US was awarded to fly from PHL. It was approved right before the recession, which caused US to give back the slot due to the downturn of the economy. Plus they needed to wait for the A340 delivery, which was eventually cancelled.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Mon May 11, 2020 4:22 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
I think PHL to Asia would perform better than CLT.


Northwest actually had the slots and A340s on order for that (PHL-NRT, seeing a 747 as too big), but canceled the A340 order (it was the only US carrier to ever order the A340 new).

Actually CO ordered the A340 new also. But in the case of PHL, it was US that had orders for A345s from (I believe) AC to fly to PVG and I think PEK.
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usflyer msp
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Mon May 11, 2020 5:11 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
I think PHL to Asia would perform better than CLT.


Northwest actually had the slots and A340s on order for that (PHL-NRT, seeing a 747 as too big), but canceled the A340 order (it was the only US carrier to ever order the A340 new).

Actually CO ordered the A340 new also. But in the case of PHL, it was US that had orders for A345s from (I believe) AC to fly to PVG and I think PEK.


US never ordered any A340's. They were going to source them from the second-hand market when needed.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Mon May 11, 2020 5:18 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:

Northwest actually had the slots and A340s on order for that (PHL-NRT, seeing a 747 as too big), but canceled the A340 order (it was the only US carrier to ever order the A340 new).

Actually CO ordered the A340 new also. But in the case of PHL, it was US that had orders for A345s from (I believe) AC to fly to PVG and I think PEK.


US never ordered any A340's. They were going to source them from the second-hand market when needed.

Didn't the original A333 order placed back in 1998 have A343 options attached to it?
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TWA772LR
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Mon May 11, 2020 9:03 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:

Northwest actually had the slots and A340s on order for that (PHL-NRT, seeing a 747 as too big), but canceled the A340 order (it was the only US carrier to ever order the A340 new).

Actually CO ordered the A340 new also. But in the case of PHL, it was US that had orders for A345s from (I believe) AC to fly to PVG and I think PEK.


US never ordered any A340's. They were going to source them from the second-hand market when needed.

My post says that they were gonna be secondhand from Air Canada.
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usflyer msp
Posts: 3699
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Mon May 11, 2020 10:09 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Actually CO ordered the A340 new also. But in the case of PHL, it was US that had orders for A345s from (I believe) AC to fly to PVG and I think PEK.


US never ordered any A340's. They were going to source them from the second-hand market when needed.

My post says that they were gonna be secondhand from Air Canada.


Your post said "it was US that had orders for A345s from (I believe) AC". AC's 345 fleet was sent to TAM in 2007 and US' application for PHL-PEK was in 2009 and specifically stated they would use an unsourced A340-300. There was some speculation that US was planning on using former AC aircraft but nothing was ever substantiated.

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