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TWA772LR
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Tue May 12, 2020 3:52 am

6 years ago, I flew in and out of CLT on UA to see my brother graduate boot camp in SC. When we were checking in to leave, I saw a big QR banner. At the time I thought QR would be the first Asia floght to CLT sonce they were still in the honeymoon phase with OW at the time. Anecdotal but not totally far fetched. Now I'm sure theyre in survival mode like the rest of the worlds airlines.
When wasn't America great?


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USAirALB
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Tue May 12, 2020 4:37 am

TWA772LR wrote:
6 years ago, I flew in and out of CLT on UA to see my brother graduate boot camp in SC. When we were checking in to leave, I saw a big QR banner. At the time I thought QR would be the first Asia floght to CLT sonce they were still in the honeymoon phase with OW at the time. Anecdotal but not totally far fetched. Now I'm sure theyre in survival mode like the rest of the worlds airlines.

They advertised extensively in CLT when they joined OW...I recall the ads being quite deceptive saying something akin to "Book Award Winning 5-Star Flights from Charlotte at Qatar.com" making the view seem like they served CLT directly. CLT officials met with representatives of Finnair and Qatar regarding starting service at CLT when the US/AA merger was progressing but as you can see nothing came of it (they also met with SAS when Electrolux opened there US HQ there and US was still in Star, but different topic).

QR went ahead and chose ATL for their Southeastern US gateway which shows how little demand to/from CLT is.

There will be no CLT-DOH service. AA has said so.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
dstblj52
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Tue May 12, 2020 5:47 am

USAirALB wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
6 years ago, I flew in and out of CLT on UA to see my brother graduate boot camp in SC. When we were checking in to leave, I saw a big QR banner. At the time I thought QR would be the first Asia floght to CLT sonce they were still in the honeymoon phase with OW at the time. Anecdotal but not totally far fetched. Now I'm sure theyre in survival mode like the rest of the worlds airlines.

They advertised extensively in CLT when they joined OW...I recall the ads being quite deceptive saying something akin to "Book Award Winning 5-Star Flights from Charlotte at Qatar.com" making the view seem like they served CLT directly. CLT officials met with representatives of Finnair and Qatar regarding starting service at CLT when the US/AA merger was progressing but as you can see nothing came of it (they also met with SAS when Electrolux opened there US HQ there and US was still in Star, but different topic).

QR went ahead and chose ATL for their Southeastern US gateway which shows how little demand to/from CLT is.

There will be no CLT-DOH service. AA has said so.

Especially given to how great of an extent delta has made it clear their unwelcome and delta has a tone of influence in atlanta
 
ahj2000
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Tue May 12, 2020 5:46 pm

USAirALB wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
6 years ago, I flew in and out of CLT on UA to see my brother graduate boot camp in SC. When we were checking in to leave, I saw a big QR banner. At the time I thought QR would be the first Asia floght to CLT sonce they were still in the honeymoon phase with OW at the time. Anecdotal but not totally far fetched. Now I'm sure theyre in survival mode like the rest of the worlds airlines.

They advertised extensively in CLT when they joined OW...I recall the ads being quite deceptive saying something akin to "Book Award Winning 5-Star Flights from Charlotte at Qatar.com" making the view seem like they served CLT directly. CLT officials met with representatives of Finnair and Qatar regarding starting service at CLT when the US/AA merger was progressing but as you can see nothing came of it (they also met with SAS when Electrolux opened there US HQ there and US was still in Star, but different topic).

QR went ahead and chose ATL for their Southeastern US gateway which shows how little demand to/from CLT is.

There will be no CLT-DOH service. AA has said so.

Oh man I remember the giant banners all across the airport. Especially thought it was funny that they usually said something along the lines of "Fly on our network with a quick connection in Philadelphia. Never seen advertizing in an airport for another airport's flights so much.
I guess the principal audience wasn't CLT based passengers (although CLT's metro has a rapidly growing South Asian population) but cnnx who could easily go through PHL too, but it was just strange.
-Andrés Juánez
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Tue May 12, 2020 6:45 pm

Not Asian related but it is interesting that British Airways serves every AA hub except for CLT (and DCA of course).
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Tue May 12, 2020 8:57 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
Not Asian related but it is interesting that British Airways serves every AA hub except for CLT (and DCA of course).

They did before.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
OneAA
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Wed May 13, 2020 12:30 am

TWA772LR wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
Not Asian related but it is interesting that British Airways serves every AA hub except for CLT (and DCA of course).

They did before.

But they don’t now......
 
SkyLife
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Wed May 13, 2020 3:11 am

As a CLT citizen I would of course love to see it but the numbers just don’t support it. Personally as a citizen and airline pilot I’d love to see Paris year round and more secondary (Lisbon, Venice etc) before Asia. Europe may be helped by the arrival of the 321XLR if she has the legs for Paris or Dublin in the off-season? I believe those are more in demand. Heck even Hawaii, something made US want to try it once upon a time, albeit with the wrong equipment for the job. Personally I could foresee even RDU landing Asia before CLT, lot of tech in the RTP. Geography is really working against CLT in terms of Asia...and we all know O/D has never worked in favor of CLT.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Wed May 13, 2020 5:08 am

SkyLife wrote:
As a CLT citizen I would of course love to see it but the numbers just don’t support it. Personally as a citizen and airline pilot I’d love to see Paris year round and more secondary (Lisbon, Venice etc) before Asia. Europe may be helped by the arrival of the 321XLR if she has the legs for Paris or Dublin in the off-season? I believe those are more in demand. Heck even Hawaii, something made US want to try it once upon a time, albeit with the wrong equipment for the job. Personally I could foresee even RDU landing Asia before CLT, lot of tech in the RTP. Geography is really working against CLT in terms of Asia...and we all know O/D has never worked in favor of CLT.

I wouldnt totally rule out a JL 788 at any givrm frequent y or seasonality. CLT is a fortress for OW and the only other hub in the SE US besides ATL. I also agree in that the 321LR would do wonders for CLTs TATL portfolio if AA acquires them.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
ScottB
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Wed May 13, 2020 3:59 pm

USAirALB wrote:
Somewhat unrelated, but it's interesting to think that had the AA merger not had gone through, what US would have done with their A359s they had on order. Would they have canceled the order and gone for A330neos instead? US obviously saw a need for a A359-type plane but the A330neo wasn't in the picture when they ordered their A350s. I seem to recall US talking about East Asia and India, but both of which likely would have been flown ex PHL.


The original US order for the A350 was made back when the A350 was going to be more or less a warmed-over A330 and Noel Forgeard was calling the 787 a cheap Chinese copy of the A330. But keep in mind that US's original A350 order back in 2005 was made in part to secure $250 million in loans from Airbus to help finance their emergence from their second bankruptcy along with the associated merger with America West.

So yeah, the "A350" order probably would have become an A330neo order absent the merger with AA. Given that DL has operated routes like DTW-PEK with the A332, the A330neo would likely have been adequate for potential routes like PHL-PEK/NRT and the current A350 is probably too much capacity for hubs in weaker markets like PHL/CLT/PHX.

Sdmccray1984 wrote:
I’m stunned that CLT still lacks ANY service to Asia. We are the busiest airport in the U.S that lacks Asia service(MCO has Emirates) and have been for some time. It stinks that I have to fly to JFK, IAD, etc every time I go to Asia.


So... the fact that the airport is "busy" is almost meaningless. What matters more is origin and destination traffic (i.e. how many people start and end their journeys in Charlotte) and on that measure CLT ranks very low -- below airports like FLL, TPA, and even MDW. Business ties to Asia from Charlotte are limited when compared against cities with airports having Asia service.
 
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Polot
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Wed May 13, 2020 4:06 pm

ScottB wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Somewhat unrelated, but it's interesting to think that had the AA merger not had gone through, what US would have done with their A359s they had on order. Would they have canceled the order and gone for A330neos instead? US obviously saw a need for a A359-type plane but the A330neo wasn't in the picture when they ordered their A350s. I seem to recall US talking about East Asia and India, but both of which likely would have been flown ex PHL.


The original US order for the A350 was made back when the A350 was going to be more or less a warmed-over A330 and Noel Forgeard was calling the 787 a cheap Chinese copy of the A330. But keep in mind that US's original A350 order back in 2005 was made in part to secure $250 million in loans from Airbus to help finance their emergence from their second bankruptcy along with the associated merger with America West.

So yeah, the "A350" order probably would have become an A330neo order absent the merger with AA. Given that DL has operated routes like DTW-PEK with the A332, the A330neo would likely have been adequate for potential routes like PHL-PEK/NRT and the current A350 is probably too much capacity for hubs in weaker markets like PHL/CLT/PHX.

Also important to remember that a majority of the A350XWB order was for the A358 (more specifically 18 A358s and 4 A359s), a plane with capacity somewhere between the A332 and A333. It wasn’t until after the AA merger that it was converted to all A359s in December 2013.

There is no way US could have supported 22 A359s, they would have been converted to A330neos fairly quickly after Airbus suspended A358 development in 2014 and launched the Neo. As you mention the Neo is essentially what US bought the first time.
 
Murdoughnut
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Wed May 13, 2020 4:27 pm

bigb wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
RDU has more Asia demand than CLT


You got data for that?


I can't share the data because international O&D is federally restricted, but I can tell you that I'm looking at the daily O&D traffic for both RDU and CLT and RDU's Asia traffic is 30% greater than that of CLT. India is included in the "Asia" category, and that's the largest destination by country for both markets.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Wed May 13, 2020 10:28 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
SkyLife wrote:
As a CLT citizen I would of course love to see it but the numbers just don’t support it. Personally as a citizen and airline pilot I’d love to see Paris year round and more secondary (Lisbon, Venice etc) before Asia. Europe may be helped by the arrival of the 321XLR if she has the legs for Paris or Dublin in the off-season? I believe those are more in demand. Heck even Hawaii, something made US want to try it once upon a time, albeit with the wrong equipment for the job. Personally I could foresee even RDU landing Asia before CLT, lot of tech in the RTP. Geography is really working against CLT in terms of Asia...and we all know O/D has never worked in favor of CLT.

I wouldnt totally rule out a JL 788 at any givrm frequent y or seasonality. CLT is a fortress for OW and the only other hub in the SE US besides ATL. I also agree in that the 321LR would do wonders for CLTs TATL portfolio if AA acquires them.


Why does JAL need to serve the SE? All the large and medium spokes and many of the small spokes in the SEUSA after served from the other hubs so what would CLT really add? Honestly, I see BNA getting a TYO flight before CLT does because at least BNA has some significant O&D to Japan.
 
OneAA
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:38 am

Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Wed May 13, 2020 11:08 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
SkyLife wrote:
As a CLT citizen I would of course love to see it but the numbers just don’t support it. Personally as a citizen and airline pilot I’d love to see Paris year round and more secondary (Lisbon, Venice etc) before Asia. Europe may be helped by the arrival of the 321XLR if she has the legs for Paris or Dublin in the off-season? I believe those are more in demand. Heck even Hawaii, something made US want to try it once upon a time, albeit with the wrong equipment for the job. Personally I could foresee even RDU landing Asia before CLT, lot of tech in the RTP. Geography is really working against CLT in terms of Asia...and we all know O/D has never worked in favor of CLT.

I wouldnt totally rule out a JL 788 at any givrm frequent y or seasonality. CLT is a fortress for OW and the only other hub in the SE US besides ATL. I also agree in that the 321LR would do wonders for CLTs TATL portfolio if AA acquires them.

All the Southeastern cities have service to AA’s main hub in DFW, which is where AA runs it’s Asian service from. Why would AA need the Southeast cities to connect in CLT, when they can already connect in DFW.
 
BENFRANKLIN
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Wed May 13, 2020 11:25 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
SkyLife wrote:
As a CLT citizen I would of course love to see it but the numbers just don’t support it. Personally as a citizen and airline pilot I’d love to see Paris year round and more secondary (Lisbon, Venice etc) before Asia. Europe may be helped by the arrival of the 321XLR if she has the legs for Paris or Dublin in the off-season? I believe those are more in demand. Heck even Hawaii, something made US want to try it once upon a time, albeit with the wrong equipment for the job. Personally I could foresee even RDU landing Asia before CLT, lot of tech in the RTP. Geography is really working against CLT in terms of Asia...and we all know O/D has never worked in favor of CLT.

I wouldnt totally rule out a JL 788 at any givrm frequent y or seasonality. CLT is a fortress for OW and the only other hub in the SE US besides ATL. I also agree in that the 321LR
would do wonders for CLTs TATL portfolio if AA acquires them.

PHL would get it before CLT. More connections than CLT. More demand.
 
acavpics
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Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:54 am

Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Wed May 13, 2020 11:31 pm

Are we referring to "Asia" as just eastern Asian countries (China, Japan, South Korea etc)? Or does the middle east also count?

PHL already has service to Asia (QR to DOH).

I do think it is unlikely that CLT will have any service to Eastern Asia soon. But if/when AA reinstates code sharing with QR as planed pre-COVID, then QR could do CLT given the large amounts of AA connections from there. Other than QR, for the time being, I can't see any other Asian service coming to CLT in the near future.

That being said, the Charlotte metro area is one of the fastest growing metros in the country, so there definitely is hope.
 
JohanTally
Posts: 164
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Thu May 14, 2020 1:42 am

OneAA wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
SkyLife wrote:
As a CLT citizen I would of course love to see it but the numbers just don’t support it. Personally as a citizen and airline pilot I’d love to see Paris year round and more secondary (Lisbon, Venice etc) before Asia. Europe may be helped by the arrival of the 321XLR if she has the legs for Paris or Dublin in the off-season? I believe those are more in demand. Heck even Hawaii, something made US want to try it once upon a time, albeit with the wrong equipment for the job. Personally I could foresee even RDU landing Asia before CLT, lot of tech in the RTP. Geography is really working against CLT in terms of Asia...and we all know O/D has never worked in favor of CLT.

I wouldnt totally rule out a JL 788 at any givrm frequent y or seasonality. CLT is a fortress for OW and the only other hub in the SE US besides ATL. I also agree in that the 321LR would do wonders for CLTs TATL portfolio if AA acquires them.

All the Southeastern cities have service to AA’s main hub in DFW, which is where AA runs it’s Asian service from. Why would AA need the Southeast cities to connect in CLT, when they can already connect in DFW.


These aren't huge markets but I'm pretty sure ROA EWN PGV FAY OAJ FLO HHH don't have regular direct DFW service but sure have a ton of CLT flights during regular ops.
 
capejet
Posts: 123
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Thu May 14, 2020 1:54 am

I have to admit I do not know a lot about Charlotte although the one time I visited it seemed like a nice city. But what major companies are based there and does it have any major research universities?
 
RUIRCE
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Thu May 14, 2020 2:42 am

capejet wrote:
I have to admit I do not know a lot about Charlotte although the one time I visited it seemed like a nice city. But what major companies are based there and does it have any major research universities?

They have a decently large corporate presence (Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Truist, Nucor, Ally Financial, Honeywell, Sealed Air , Duke Energy, etc.) Charlotte has UNC Charlotte which i technically think is a research university (albeit not a major one), but it is not comparable to UNC Chapel Hill, NC State, GA Tech, etc.
 
N649DL
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Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Thu May 14, 2020 2:49 am

If PHL still doesn't see it, then CLT won't. Better bet on PHX instead to NRT.

IIRC, looking at a route map when UA and US merged in 2000 I know BOS-NRT was supposed to be launched and possibly PHL and/or CLT as well. UA was on top of the Asia market back then, AA not as much of a priority for Asia when they finally merged with US.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:05 pm

I think maybe the fact that there are many airports nearby CLT that DO have Asia service like DTW, ATL, JFK, MIA, BOS, etc.
The 757-MAX is happening tomorrow.
 
Antarius
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:11 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
I think maybe the fact that there are many airports nearby CLT that DO have Asia service like DTW, ATL, JFK, MIA, BOS, etc.


Other than ATL, not sure I'd characterize any of those airports as "close".
http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=clt-dtw,clt-jfk,+clt-mia,+clt-bos&MS=wls&MR=120&MX=540x540&PM=*

But yes, CLT is an extremely busy transfer airport. If all the passengers headed to Asia were flying xxx-CLT-DOH, it makes more sense to route them via another airport that has O&D demand and connections to support a flight.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
Delta28L
Posts: 340
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:26 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
I think maybe the fact that there are many airports nearby CLT that DO have Asia service like DTW, ATL, JFK, MIA, BOS, etc.


MIA only has cargo flights to Asia. They don’t have any airlines serving Asia
 
USAirALB
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:29 pm

Delta28L wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
I think maybe the fact that there are many airports nearby CLT that DO have Asia service like DTW, ATL, JFK, MIA, BOS, etc.


MIA only has cargo flights to Asia. They don’t have any airlines serving Asia

MIA has flights to both TLV and DOH.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
Antarius
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:41 pm

Delta28L wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
I think maybe the fact that there are many airports nearby CLT that DO have Asia service like DTW, ATL, JFK, MIA, BOS, etc.


MIA only has cargo flights to Asia. They don’t have any airlines serving Asia


QR serves DOH and LY serves TLV. TK also serves IST which is technically Europe, I guess.

EDIT: @USAirALB beat me to it.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
DFW17L
Posts: 263
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:53 am

Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:55 pm

Could you imagine coming in to CLT from East Asia, and after 14-15 hours, getting stuck in the taxiway congestion? No thanks.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:01 pm

DFW17L wrote:
Could you imagine coming in to CLT from East Asia, and after 14-15 hours, getting stuck in the taxiway congestion? No thanks.


Hey that sounds just like EWR!
 
Antarius
Posts: 2535
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:31 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
DFW17L wrote:
Could you imagine coming in to CLT from East Asia, and after 14-15 hours, getting stuck in the taxiway congestion? No thanks.


Hey that sounds just like EWR!


or LAX or waiting for a gate at DFW. Or ORD.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2333
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:28 pm

Antarius wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
DFW17L wrote:
Could you imagine coming in to CLT from East Asia, and after 14-15 hours, getting stuck in the taxiway congestion? No thanks.


Hey that sounds just like EWR!


or LAX or waiting for a gate at DFW. Or ORD.

Or even worse: landing at JFK and having to take an Uber to LGA to make your connection.

Honestly I have done TPAC-US Domestic connections at LAX/SFO/JFK/ORD. They all are horrible because you have to transfer terminals via a shuttle bus or tramway. SFO was probably the best because you can theoretically walk indoors pre-security between terminals.

CLT is the largest airline hub in the US to utilize a single terminal concept. International to Domestic transfers are relatively easy there.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
Roots1
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:51 pm

GRU will happen at CLT before anything in Asia happens. (Not that either is likely)
 
Bolante007
Posts: 5
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:24 am

I don't get the hate for CLT, the city has plenty of passengers and potentially corp accounts that could help drive that market, I mean Korean flies to LAS, I mean really?. I could see ICN-CLT instead, the East Coast has much more profitable endeavors than Las Vegas, perhaps China Eastern could fly to CLT from Shanghai using a 787, I know of a few Japanese companies in NC that could potentially see travelers from NRT or HND but doubt that JAL, ANA or AA would take the risk. The issue with CLT is not the airport is the way it's been set up to compete with RDU, the issue here it's all the major corporations sitting in RDU while CLT has the airport and the city, unfortunately is not the time for a direct Asia-CLT flight just yet.
 
JohanTally
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:45 am

Roots1 wrote:
GRU will happen at CLT before anything in Asia happens. (Not that either is likely)


CLT has had GRU and GIG already but they ended sometime around the US/AA merger. I'm not sure which went away first but I believe it was GRU.
 
JohanTally
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:52 am

JohanTally wrote:
Roots1 wrote:
GRU will happen at CLT before anything in Asia happens. (Not that either is likely)


CLT has had GRU and GIG already but they ended sometime around the US/AA merger. I'm not sure which went away first but I believe it was GRU.


It's possible they could resume in the future with the XLR since the route is just under 4100nm. That wouldn't happen before 2024 or 2025 if ever. Also depends how the XLR is configured because GRU is more business oriented and GIG more leisure based.
 
iadadd
Posts: 302
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:16 pm

Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:22 am

DOH is technically in Asia, and CLT-DOH on QR doesn't sound too wild. Probably in the mid-2020s (if the economy rebounds)
 
Roots1
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:38 am

Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:21 am

iadadd wrote:
DOH is technically in Asia, and CLT-DOH on QR doesn't sound too wild. Probably in the mid-2020s (if the economy rebounds)


I don’t know...CLT-DOH sounds kind of wild. CLT-GRU as a nice compliment to MIA, in good times, for connecting traffic seems doable.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:37 am

There is no reason why CLT would have service to Asia. Look at a map. The O&D is too small to support it and geographically the location stinks for connections compared to other AA hubs. CLT was lucky to have a ridiculously huge offering of services to Europe before carona. I would just be happy if those all come back one day. Asia will never happen, there is just no reason it would or should.
 
umichman
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:42 am

Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:58 am

Antarius wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
I think maybe the fact that there are many airports nearby CLT that DO have Asia service like DTW, ATL, JFK, MIA, BOS, etc.


Other than ATL, not sure I'd characterize any of those airports as "close".
http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=clt-dtw,clt-jfk,+clt-mia,+clt-bos&MS=wls&MR=120&MX=540x540&PM=*

But yes, CLT is an extremely busy transfer airport. If all the passengers headed to Asia were flying xxx-CLT-DOH, it makes more sense to route them via another airport that has O&D demand and connections to support a flight.


Not so much close, but you are basically overflying ORD on CLT-HND and DTW on CLT-ICN/PVG/PEK if you look at the Great Circle routing. DL has had issues with the economics of certain ATL-Asia flights in the past as they overflew and competed with their DTW flights.
Last edited by umichman on Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
B752OS
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:01 am

Bolante007 wrote:
I don't get the hate for CLT, the city has plenty of passengers and potentially corp accounts that could help drive that market, I mean Korean flies to LAS, I mean really?. I could see ICN-CLT instead, the East Coast has much more profitable endeavors than Las Vegas, perhaps China Eastern could fly to CLT from Shanghai using a 787, I know of a few Japanese companies in NC that could potentially see travelers from NRT or HND but doubt that JAL, ANA or AA would take the risk. The issue with CLT is not the airport is the way it's been set up to compete with RDU, the issue here it's all the major corporations sitting in RDU while CLT has the airport and the city, unfortunately is not the time for a direct Asia-CLT flight just yet.


Charlotte is not a tourist draw for international visitors at all. Las Vegas is a large draw for international visitors. That may be one key reason Las Vegas has service. Throw in the large convention business Las Vegas sees (easily tops anything Charlotte does) and that might be another reason Las Vegas has service.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:10 am

JohanTally wrote:
Roots1 wrote:
GRU will happen at CLT before anything in Asia happens. (Not that either is likely)


CLT has had GRU and GIG already but they ended sometime around the US/AA merger. I'm not sure which went away first but I believe it was GRU.

CLT-GIG was flown 2010-2014 using a 762 and was up-gauged to an A332 during the Norther Winter. CLT-GRU was flown between 2013-2014. The route started in 2013 with a 762 but was quickly up-gauged to an A332.

GRU IIRC ended in October. GIG ended around the same time but they brought the route back during the Christmas season for a couple of weeks before discontinuing it.
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Lootess
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:13 am

umichman wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
I think maybe the fact that there are many airports nearby CLT that DO have Asia service like DTW, ATL, JFK, MIA, BOS, etc.


Other than ATL, not sure I'd characterize any of those airports as "close".
http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=clt-dtw,clt-jfk,+clt-mia,+clt-bos&MS=wls&MR=120&MX=540x540&PM=*

But yes, CLT is an extremely busy transfer airport. If all the passengers headed to Asia were flying xxx-CLT-DOH, it makes more sense to route them via another airport that has O&D demand and connections to support a flight.


Not so much close, but you are basically overflying ORD on CLT-HND and DTW on CLT-ICN/PVG/PEK if you look at the Great Circle routing. DL has had issues with the economics of certain ATL-Asia flights in the past as they overflew and competed with their DTW flights.


DL ATL-PVG stood on it's own because cities like TLH, BHM, and CHS didn't have to double connect in DTW. The pandemic is the only reason it's not running right now and since the bilateral has limited how many China flights are allowed currently. But DTW will likely go online next since SEA is the primary gateway during this.

ATL-HND is always a performer. Also remember when DL gave US an NRT slot during the whole LGA-DCA shuffle.
 
DMPHL
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:34 am

Bolante007 wrote:
I don't get the hate for CLT, the city has plenty of passengers and potentially corp accounts that could help drive that market, I mean Korean flies to LAS, I mean really?. I could see ICN-CLT instead, the East Coast has much more profitable endeavors than Las Vegas, perhaps China Eastern could fly to CLT from Shanghai using a 787, I know of a few Japanese companies in NC that could potentially see travelers from NRT or HND but doubt that JAL, ANA or AA would take the risk. The issue with CLT is not the airport is the way it's been set up to compete with RDU, the issue here it's all the major corporations sitting in RDU while CLT has the airport and the city, unfortunately is not the time for a direct Asia-CLT flight just yet.


You're right, JAL, ANA, or AA won't take the risk because there is nothing to be gained. It's not about having profitable companies. It is about having a base of corporate traffic that needs to travel between destinations. There is no significant demand from CLT to Asia whose yields would make the flights worth it financially. There also is not additional high-yielding demand in the region that requires an addition of that capacity to CLT when they can easily connect over ATL, DTW, MSP, LAX, DFW, IAH, SFO, SEA, JFK, EWR, IAD, ORD...you get the picture.

Yes, China Eastern could fly from CLT to Shanghai on a 787. If they wanted to light money on fire.

It's not hate for CLT. It's an understanding that while it may be AA's second-largest and second-most profitable hub, that comes on the strength of its lower costs that allow AA to achieve large economies of scale connecting millions of passengers on domestic flows, not because there is massive high-yielding demand originating in or connecting through CLT that would support 14-15hr flights to Asia.
 
ITSTours
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:54 am

What is PDEW for major Asian cities from CLT anyway? To TYO, PEK, SHA, HKG, SIN and SEL? Without the number what can we discuss about.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:28 am

Lootess wrote:
umichman wrote:
Antarius wrote:


Other than ATL, not sure I'd characterize any of those airports as "close".
http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=clt-dtw,clt-jfk,+clt-mia,+clt-bos&MS=wls&MR=120&MX=540x540&PM=*

But yes, CLT is an extremely busy transfer airport. If all the passengers headed to Asia were flying xxx-CLT-DOH, it makes more sense to route them via another airport that has O&D demand and connections to support a flight.


Not so much close, but you are basically overflying ORD on CLT-HND and DTW on CLT-ICN/PVG/PEK if you look at the Great Circle routing. DL has had issues with the economics of certain ATL-Asia flights in the past as they overflew and competed with their DTW flights.


DL ATL-PVG stood on it's own because cities like TLH, BHM, and CHS didn't have to double connect in DTW. The pandemic is the only reason it's not running right now and since the bilateral has limited how many China flights are allowed currently. But DTW will likely go online next since SEA is the primary gateway during this.

ATL-HND is always a performer. Also remember when DL gave US an NRT slot during the whole LGA-DCA shuffle.


ATL-PVG works because DL has an ownership stake in and a close partnership with MU, the carrier which has its primary hub at PVG. CLT-Asia is not happening anytime soon as most of the traffic that would fly XXX-CLT-Asia can just as easily fly XXX-DFW-Asia,
 
strfyr51
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:57 am

I have a question? Where would you propose an Asian route TO from CLT ans who would need such a long range route that American might bypass ORD,DFW or SEA to fly the route? If it were that HOT of an Idea? Somebody would already be flying such a route already wouldn't you agree?? Just because it's there TO do? Is that a shortage or reason FOR doing it? is MIA.ATL. IAD. EWR/JFK. PHL or BOS Overloaded to ASIA from the East coast that the route is imperative? and if the route is that good? Can you bypass the west coast and do it even more profitable? You must know something.
 
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stl07
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:00 am

At the end of the day, it's still a random city in NC with no major business connections to Asia. Sorry if that bursts anyone's bubble.
But to CLT's credit, they are already doing REALLY well domestically for their city size. Other cities like my hometown of STL could only dream of having that much service
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Antarius
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:05 pm

DMPHL wrote:
It's not hate for CLT. It's an understanding that while it may be AA's second-largest and second-most profitable hub, that comes on the strength of its lower costs that allow AA to achieve large economies of scale connecting millions of passengers on domestic flows, not because there is massive high-yielding demand originating in or connecting through CLT that would support 14-15hr flights to Asia.


This is a great way to summarize it.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
727LOVER
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:18 pm

DMPHL wrote:

It's not hate for CLT. It's an understanding that while it may be AA's second-largest and second-most profitable hub


I thought it was their most profitable

I think CLT-Asia would be more plausible if it were US stand alone....but since the AA merger, you have DFW, LAX, ORD


Wasn't US supposed to get A340s to fly PHL-Tokyo like 20 years ago?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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klm617
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:40 pm

Lootess wrote:
umichman wrote:
Antarius wrote:


Other than ATL, not sure I'd characterize any of those airports as "close".
http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=clt-dtw,clt-jfk,+clt-mia,+clt-bos&MS=wls&MR=120&MX=540x540&PM=*

But yes, CLT is an extremely busy transfer airport. If all the passengers headed to Asia were flying xxx-CLT-DOH, it makes more sense to route them via another airport that has O&D demand and connections to support a flight.


Not so much close, but you are basically overflying ORD on CLT-HND and DTW on CLT-ICN/PVG/PEK if you look at the Great Circle routing. DL has had issues with the economics of certain ATL-Asia flights in the past as they overflew and competed with their DTW flights.


DL ATL-PVG stood on it's own because cities like TLH, BHM, and CHS didn't have to double connect in DTW. The pandemic is the only reason it's not running right now and since the bilateral has limited how many China flights are allowed currently. But DTW will likely go online next since SEA is the primary gateway during this.



ATL-HND is always a performer. Also remember when DL gave US an NRT slot during the whole LGA-DCA shuffle.


Detroit is already on line and has been connected to PVG the entire time. By the way SEA is not the primary gateway DTW is and has been during this pandemic for most of the Delta network.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:14 pm

Bolante007 wrote:
I don't get the hate for CLT, the city has plenty of passengers and potentially corp accounts that could help drive that market, I mean Korean flies to LAS, I mean really?. I could see ICN-CLT instead, the East Coast has much more profitable endeavors than Las Vegas, perhaps China Eastern could fly to CLT from Shanghai using a 787, I know of a few Japanese companies in NC that could potentially see travelers from NRT or HND but doubt that JAL, ANA or AA would take the risk. The issue with CLT is not the airport is the way it's been set up to compete with RDU, the issue here it's all the major corporations sitting in RDU while CLT has the airport and the city, unfortunately is not the time for a direct Asia-CLT flight just yet.


LAS is 100% tourist traffic, period. IIRC either JL or NH also used to fly there. Then there was the SQ's SIN-HKG-LAS back in 2002.

If you ever looked at KE's network pre-virus you would be surprise how many "secondary" cities they fly to for tourism traffic, especially in Europe, i.e. ZAG, VCE, BCN.

As for MU...let's just say it is not going to happen. Have you look at news about US-China relation lately (and no, it won't get much better even if Biden gets elected)? Not to mention, MU doesn't even fly to IAH, a route that was rumored for almost 10 years now.

It is not hate for CLT, but at the end of the day it is a metro area of like 2.5M people with an economy that is not all that "international" (and definitely small East Asian business presence). CLT is just not ATL with that giant DL hub and actual East Asia O&D demand (i.e. to South Korea).
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3865
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:43 pm

stl07 wrote:
At the end of the day, it's still a random city in NC with no major business connections to Asia. Sorry if that bursts anyone's bubble.
But to CLT's credit, they are already doing REALLY well domestically for their city size. Other cities like my hometown of STL could only dream of having that much service


Exactly. I like CLT (my best friend is moving there this week) but it is not a global city. I flew MSP-CLT-BCN-DME-ASB on AA/S7 when I went to Turkmenistan last year and when our group (I was the only American) was discussing how each of us got to Turkmenistan no one knew what or where CLT was.

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