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Antarius
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:13 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
stl07 wrote:
At the end of the day, it's still a random city in NC with no major business connections to Asia. Sorry if that bursts anyone's bubble.
But to CLT's credit, they are already doing REALLY well domestically for their city size. Other cities like my hometown of STL could only dream of having that much service


Exactly. I like CLT (my best friend is moving there this week) but it is not a global city. I flew MSP-CLT-BCN-DME-ASB on AA/S7 when I went to Turkmenistan last year and when our group (I was the only American) was discussing how each of us got to Turkmenistan no one knew what or where CLT was.


The other factor is catchment area overlap. For a DL flyer, if you are based in MIA, JAX, MEM, RDU, AUS, IAH etc. you're going to ATL to go anywhere. This is not true for AA. AA has MIA, DFW in that same broader catchment area as CLT. As a result, CLT serves a different purpose as a low cost and very busy connecting hub, while DFW plays the jack-of-all-trades and MIA is focused on Latin America and Caribbean.

CLT can compliment the other AA hubs (and vice versa) vs competing with them or having to do it all (like ATL). For this reason, there is no incentive to try to force something into CLT when AA has other hubs they can use for Asia that also have O&D.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:36 pm

Antarius wrote:
The other factor is catchment area overlap. For a DL flyer, if you are based in MIA, JAX, MEM, RDU, AUS, IAH etc. you're going to ATL to go anywhere. This is not true for AA. AA has MIA, DFW in that same broader catchment area as CLT. As a result, CLT serves a different purpose as a low cost and very busy connecting hub, while DFW plays the jack-of-all-trades and MIA is focused on Latin America and Caribbean.


IMHO it's not a catchment area problem. (As for your example, I'll point out that DTW has DL non-stops to Asia while AA's MIA does not.) It's an O&D problem: CLT's O&D is low -- it doesn't even make the top 30 U.S. airports for domestic O&D. It's smaller than AUS, SLC, PDX or even BNA. AA non-stops to Asia would also overfly other AA Asia hubs to the north and west. (Yep, AA decided to start services from SEA instead of CLT.)

See U.S. Airport O&D Rankings for 12 months ending 12/2019, at bottom right, helpfully provided by Orlando International Airport. https://www.orlandoairports.net/about-us/

IIRC, some work by FSDan not too long ago showed the AA hub at CLT with only about half the daily seats of DL at ATL.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:32 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
See U.S. Airport O&D Rankings for 12 months ending 12/2019, at bottom right, helpfully provided by Orlando International Airport. https://www.orlandoairports.net/about-us/

That is O&D ranked to/from MCO only.
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RDUDDJI
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:58 pm

CLT to Asia. Had to make sure it wasn't April Fools...

Antarius wrote:

The other factor is catchment area overlap. For a DL flyer, if you are based in MIA, JAX, MEM, RDU, AUS, IAH etc. you're going to ATL to go anywhere. This is not true for AA.


AA is not the only airline with multiple hubs. On DL you could go also go through DTW, MSP, LGA, (as well as SLC, BOS, JFK, LAX, SEA and even MIA from many of those (pre-covid of course)).
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:04 am

flyPIT wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
See U.S. Airport O&D Rankings for 12 months ending 12/2019, at bottom right, helpfully provided by Orlando International Airport. https://www.orlandoairports.net/about-us/

That is O&D ranked to/from MCO only.


Nope...why is MCO on the list otherwise.

IIRC CLT O&D percentage is something like 30%, at ~25M yearly boarding (2019), this means ~7.5M pax, or, a lower number than the like of AUS and BNA.

As for DTW to East Asia - it is all about geography. That's where DL connect pax from the entire Midwest to East Asia. CLT has no advantage in that regards.

P.S. ATL has 2x the traffic of CLT and 2.5x the people in the immediate catchment area (i.e. metro area) and a much more international business base. They are not even comparable
Last edited by zakuivcustom on Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Antarius
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:06 am

RDUDDJI wrote:
CLT to Asia. Had to make sure it wasn't April Fools...

Antarius wrote:

The other factor is catchment area overlap. For a DL flyer, if you are based in MIA, JAX, MEM, RDU, AUS, IAH etc. you're going to ATL to go anywhere. This is not true for AA.


AA is not the only airline with multiple hubs. On DL you could go also go through DTW, MSP, LGA, (as well as SLC, BOS, JFK, LAX, SEA and even MIA from many of those (pre-covid of course)).


DL is significantly more single hub reliant than anyone else. ATL is a massive operation.

Also I wasn't aware one could fly to Asia from LGA. :stirthepot:
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:09 am

RDUDDJI wrote:
CLT to Asia. Had to make sure it wasn't April Fools...

Antarius wrote:

The other factor is catchment area overlap. For a DL flyer, if you are based in MIA, JAX, MEM, RDU, AUS, IAH etc. you're going to ATL to go anywhere. This is not true for AA.


AA is not the only airline with multiple hubs. On DL you could go also go through DTW, MSP, LGA, (as well as SLC, BOS, JFK, LAX, SEA and even MIA from many of those (pre-covid of course)).


DL has significantly more stations that are only connected to ATL than AA has solely connected to CLT. Additionally, DL runs a much larger percentage of its overall capacity through ATL than AA does through CLT which leads to thinner schedules and availability to LAX/SEA/DTW/MSP for connections to TPAC flights. AA tends to have roughly equal service from CLT and DFW for cities east of the Mississippi so getting to DFW for a TPAC connection is not really an issue.
 
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aeromoe
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:11 am

TWA772LR wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
I think PHL to Asia would perform better than CLT.


Northwest actually had the slots and A340s on order for that (PHL-NRT, seeing a 747 as too big), but canceled the A340 order (it was the only US carrier to ever order the A340 new).

Actually CO ordered the A340 new also. But in the case of PHL, it was US that had orders for A345s from (I believe) AC to fly to PVG and I think PEK.


:checkmark: This: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=80395

And this:
https://www.bing.com/search?q=continental+airlines+a340+order&form=EDGTCT&qs=PF&cvid=9424a58c60e940b997b112bd858a247e&refig=6178bd377dbd4a48bbfdbef4e4056b4b&cc=US&setlang=en-US&plvar=0
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USAirALB
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:26 am

usflyer msp wrote:
[AA tends to have roughly equal service from CLT and DFW for cities east of the Mississippi so getting to DFW for a TPAC connection is not really an issue.

I wouldn't necessarily call that a true statement.

It's true that AA has slowly been improving service to smaller/medium sized East Coast destinations from DFW within the past few years, but still there are several stations that lack DFW service on a year-round basis, and may never have DFW service: ALB/CAK/ABE/BTV/CRW/CHO/ERI/FAY/FLO/PGV/HTS/ITH/OAJ/MHT/MLB/EWN/HVN/PHF/PWM/PVD/ROA/SBY/SYR/TOL/AVP/HPN/IPT/BGR.

I recognize that some of these stations are extremely small, but others, like ALB are effectively cut off from AA's Asia network without making a connection just to access DFW.

That's okay though, as I have said in another post, AA has essentially decided that Northeast US-Asia isn't worth fighting for, even from those cities that have nonstop service to DFW. DL/UA are just fortunate to have more geographically central hubs to access Asia from the Northeast. Why would I fly BDL-DFW-ICN when I can do BDL-DTW-ICN and save 1200 miles?
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aerace
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:39 am

I hate to be like this, as I feel that all topics deserve their space, but to think that there’s a debate about CLT to Asia when they can’t even hold onto CDG or BCN seems like an answer in itself. It isn’t gonna happen, especially before other hubs that have had history of it and greater Asian population.
 
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klm617
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:53 am

usflyer msp wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:
CLT to Asia. Had to make sure it wasn't April Fools...

Antarius wrote:

The other factor is catchment area overlap. For a DL flyer, if you are based in MIA, JAX, MEM, RDU, AUS, IAH etc. you're going to ATL to go anywhere. This is not true for AA.


AA is not the only airline with multiple hubs. On DL you could go also go through DTW, MSP, LGA, (as well as SLC, BOS, JFK, LAX, SEA and even MIA from many of those (pre-covid of course)).


DL has significantly more stations that are only connected to ATL than AA has solely connected to CLT. Additionally, DL runs a much larger percentage of its overall capacity through ATL than AA does through CLT which leads to thinner schedules and availability to LAX/SEA/DTW/MSP for connections to TPAC flights. AA tends to have roughly equal service from CLT and DFW for cities east of the Mississippi so getting to DFW for a TPAC connection is not really an issue.



But you can connect through ORD as well via an AA partner flight.
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klm617
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:55 am

Antarius wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:
CLT to Asia. Had to make sure it wasn't April Fools...

Antarius wrote:

The other factor is catchment area overlap. For a DL flyer, if you are based in MIA, JAX, MEM, RDU, AUS, IAH etc. you're going to ATL to go anywhere. This is not true for AA.


AA is not the only airline with multiple hubs. On DL you could go also go through DTW, MSP, LGA, (as well as SLC, BOS, JFK, LAX, SEA and even MIA from many of those (pre-covid of course)).


DL is significantly more single hub reliant than anyone else. ATL is a massive operation.

Also I wasn't aware one could fly to Asia from LGA. :stirthepot:


Yes and that is by design. They want connection routed over ATL and they like to fill there planes with O/D traffic as much as they can at the other hubs.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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flyPIT
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:22 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
See U.S. Airport O&D Rankings for 12 months ending 12/2019, at bottom right, helpfully provided by Orlando International Airport. https://www.orlandoairports.net/about-us/

That is O&D ranked to/from MCO only.


Nope...why is MCO on the list otherwise.

Here is a link to the proper page instead of a link to a page with dozens of links.

https://www.orlandoairports.net/site/up ... D-Rank.pdf
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umichman
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:53 am

Lootess wrote:
umichman wrote:
Antarius wrote:


Other than ATL, not sure I'd characterize any of those airports as "close".
http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=clt-dtw,clt-jfk,+clt-mia,+clt-bos&MS=wls&MR=120&MX=540x540&PM=*

But yes, CLT is an extremely busy transfer airport. If all the passengers headed to Asia were flying xxx-CLT-DOH, it makes more sense to route them via another airport that has O&D demand and connections to support a flight.


Not so much close, but you are basically overflying ORD on CLT-HND and DTW on CLT-ICN/PVG/PEK if you look at the Great Circle routing. DL has had issues with the economics of certain ATL-Asia flights in the past as they overflew and competed with their DTW flights.


DL ATL-PVG stood on it's own because cities like TLH, BHM, and CHS didn't have to double connect in DTW. The pandemic is the only reason it's not running right now and since the bilateral has limited how many China flights are allowed currently. But DTW will likely go online next since SEA is the primary gateway during this.

ATL-HND is always a performer. Also remember when DL gave US an NRT slot during the whole LGA-DCA shuffle.


ATL-PVG was on and off prior to COVID. While DTW does not have the reach to a number of smaller markets that ATL does, that's likely not where the bulk of the pax are coming from. Yes, ATL benefits from it's superhub status. But geographically, it's not ideal for Asia flights for many parts of eastern US where DTW works better. And that extra fuel you need to carry for the longer ATL flights comes at a cost.
 
n2dru
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:04 am

klm617 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:
CLT to Asia. Had to make sure it wasn't April Fools...



AA is not the only airline with multiple hubs. On DL you could go also go through DTW, MSP, LGA, (as well as SLC, BOS, JFK, LAX, SEA and even MIA from many of those (pre-covid of course)).


DL is significantly more single hub reliant than anyone else. ATL is a massive operation.

Also I wasn't aware one could fly to Asia from LGA. :stirthepot:


Yes and that is by design. They want connection routed over ATL and they like to fill there planes with O/D traffic as much as they can at the other hubs.


But you can't forget ATL does have O&D traffic to add to those connections.
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:08 pm

Antarius wrote:

Also I wasn't aware one could fly to Asia from LGA. :stirthepot:


I never said otherwise. Read what I wrote.
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peterinlisbon
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:17 pm

It's not a big enough city to sustain an ultra-long haul flight all the way to Asia. The most you can hope for is maybe Turkish Airlines to Istanbul one day.
 
Antarius
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:52 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
It's not a big enough city to sustain an ultra-long haul flight all the way to Asia. The most you can hope for is maybe Turkish Airlines to Istanbul one day.


If anyone, it would be QR. AA basically owns CLT, so the likelihood of TK is pretty low as they'd have no feed.
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Lootess
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:52 pm

QR's ATL-DOH isn't exactly the best performer either, so it'd be a stretch to even consider CLT despite the alliance.

umichman wrote:
Lootess wrote:
umichman wrote:

Not so much close, but you are basically overflying ORD on CLT-HND and DTW on CLT-ICN/PVG/PEK if you look at the Great Circle routing. DL has had issues with the economics of certain ATL-Asia flights in the past as they overflew and competed with their DTW flights.


DL ATL-PVG stood on it's own because cities like TLH, BHM, and CHS didn't have to double connect in DTW. The pandemic is the only reason it's not running right now and since the bilateral has limited how many China flights are allowed currently. But DTW will likely go online next since SEA is the primary gateway during this.

ATL-HND is always a performer. Also remember when DL gave US an NRT slot during the whole LGA-DCA shuffle.


ATL-PVG was on and off prior to COVID. While DTW does not have the reach to a number of smaller markets that ATL does, that's likely not where the bulk of the pax are coming from. Yes, ATL benefits from it's superhub status. But geographically, it's not ideal for Asia flights for many parts of eastern US where DTW works better. And that extra fuel you need to carry for the longer ATL flights comes at a cost.


I think I meant DTW-PEK as DTW-PVG was the one reinstated. DTW was always the primary asian gateway.

ATL-PVG came back about a year after Ed took over, he was quite adamant about that route returning at the time. Might be awhile before it comes back this go around though due to the limited slots, revenue, and likely ULH wide bodies.
 
machbullet
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:03 pm

Hypothetically, even if CLT were to get Asia service, where in Asia?
 
NYCVIE
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:22 pm

USAirALB wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
[AA tends to have roughly equal service from CLT and DFW for cities east of the Mississippi so getting to DFW for a TPAC connection is not really an issue.

I wouldn't necessarily call that a true statement.

It's true that AA has slowly been improving service to smaller/medium sized East Coast destinations from DFW within the past few years, but still there are several stations that lack DFW service on a year-round basis, and may never have DFW service: ALB/CAK/ABE/BTV/CRW/CHO/ERI/FAY/FLO/PGV/HTS/ITH/OAJ/MHT/MLB/EWN/HVN/PHF/PWM/PVD/ROA/SBY/SYR/TOL/AVP/HPN/IPT/BGR.

I recognize that some of these stations are extremely small, but others, like ALB are effectively cut off from AA's Asia network without making a connection just to access DFW.

That's okay though, as I have said in another post, AA has essentially decided that Northeast US-Asia isn't worth fighting for, even from those cities that have nonstop service to DFW. DL/UA are just fortunate to have more geographically central hubs to access Asia from the Northeast. Why would I fly BDL-DFW-ICN when I can do BDL-DTW-ICN and save 1200 miles?


I don't know that I would say "fortunate". AA also has a hub at ORD also but they've just decided not to/have been unable to compete in ORD-Asia beyond the metal neutral JL flight. Same with JFK to a smaller extent. In fact, AA is just as well positioned as UA geographically to capture NE-Asia traffic since they have hubs in the same markets (NYC and ORD).

I agree that they basically aren't targeting NE to Asia though - in November I flew PHL-PVG through DFW and even with getting the first flight of the day from PHL to DFW (a hub to hub route!), the connection was 42 minutes (which due to late arrival I ended up missing). The LAX to China flights also depart too early to flow a connection from the NE through LAX.
 
NiMar
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:37 pm

Great circle map it. Most efficient would be to start service from SEA. CLT-SEA-HND is 175 miles longer than direct. Gives pax time for a leg stretch, a meal before continuing. Can also route some DFW this way. Considering the recent moves with AS I think AA sees this as well.
 
ahj2000
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:49 pm

CLT has no real O&D to East Asia. That's off the table, as far as I'm concerned. (Used to live in CLT, loved it, want nothing but the best for it. Just a fact.) For a city with such a majority-domestic economy, the Germany nonstops for the European business interests in Metrolina and LHR/lesuire Europe is probably all we're going to get. Quite possibly year round flights to MAD and CDG when a smaller aircraft comes online or when 788s become commonplace in CLT, but as mentioned upthread, it would take a bit of infrastructure work (or the proposed midfield terminal to come online in several decades) to make it work. The only other option that I see is CLT-DOH. The Indian population of CLT is booming, and VFR traffic is really the only thing going to make a flight to Asia work. Given that CLT's Asian population really isn't from one centralized place in India (I had two kids on my street whose families were from DEL and BLR) the option to flow over DOH to many different cities would be convenient and perhaps worthy of service
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Bigant0408
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:25 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
CLT has no real O&D to East Asia. That's off the table, as far as I'm concerned. (Used to live in CLT, loved it, want nothing but the best for it. Just a fact.) For a city with such a majority-domestic economy, the Germany nonstops for the European business interests in Metrolina and LHR/lesuire Europe is probably all we're going to get. Quite possibly year round flights to MAD and CDG when a smaller aircraft comes online or when 788s become commonplace in CLT, but as mentioned upthread, it would take a bit of infrastructure work (or the proposed midfield terminal to come online in several decades) to make it work. The only other option that I see is CLT-DOH. The Indian population of CLT is booming, and VFR traffic is really the only thing going to make a flight to Asia work. Given that CLT's Asian population really isn't from one centralized place in India (I had two kids on my street whose families were from DEL and BLR) the option to flow over DOH to many different cities would be convenient and perhaps worthy of service


Couldn’t agree more with your post. And as for DOH service it would have to be from QR as AA stated that they don’t have intentions of starting a Doha route from CLT.
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Dldiamondboy
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:24 pm

Pre Covid ATL only had 4 flights per day to Asia. If the busiest airport in the world can only support 4 seems unlikely CLT could support more than one. If t here was a need and money to be made doing it. AA, UL or DL would do it. Two of those flight were to ICN driven by Hyundai/Kia demand from the Westpoint GA assembly plant.
 
machbullet
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:44 pm

Dldiamondboy wrote:
Pre Covid ATL only had 4 flights per day to Asia. If the busiest airport in the world can only support 4 seems unlikely CLT could support more than one. If t here was a need and money to be made doing it. AA, UL or DL would do it. Two of those flight were to ICN driven by Hyundai/Kia demand from the Westpoint GA assembly plant.


ATL having 4 flights to Asia has nothing to do with it being the busiest airport but rather how far it is from Asia. ORD is much closer and has dozens of flights to Asia but is "less busy."
 
DMPHL
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:25 pm

machbullet wrote:
Dldiamondboy wrote:
Pre Covid ATL only had 4 flights per day to Asia. If the busiest airport in the world can only support 4 seems unlikely CLT could support more than one. If t here was a need and money to be made doing it. AA, UL or DL would do it. Two of those flight were to ICN driven by Hyundai/Kia demand from the Westpoint GA assembly plant.


ATL having 4 flights to Asia has nothing to do with it being the busiest airport but rather how far it is from Asia. ORD is much closer and has dozens of flights to Asia but is "less busy."


I think that's part of the point, actually. Even in a metro area twice the size of CLT's, with a good amount of locally-based international corporate travel, including to S. Korea, the world's busiest airport by passenger volume still had a relatively small number of Asia flights per day. So the prospects for CLT would not be great. The point was comparing ATL to CLT, not ATL to ORD. Chicago as a city is MULTIPLES of Atlanta's population with a significant number of international businesses across a highly diversified set of industries.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:37 pm

 
machbullet
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:33 pm

Boof02671 wrote:


Is this existing routes or new routes?
 
NYCVIE
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:08 pm

Boof02671 wrote:


This is behind a paywall, but isn't DFW already the main Asia gateway?
 
Antarius
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Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:31 pm

NYCVIE wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:


This is behind a paywall, but isn't DFW already the main Asia gateway?


LAX was officially the "pacific gateway" previously with flights to HKG, PVG, PEK, NRT, HND, AKL, SYD.

Although yes, DFW does serve all of those destinations except AKL and SYD (HND was going to start soon, I believe). In addition, DFW serves ICN.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2940
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:49 pm

Antarius wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:


This is behind a paywall, but isn't DFW already the main Asia gateway?


LAX was officially the "pacific gateway" previously with flights to HKG, PVG, PEK, NRT, HND, AKL, SYD.

Although yes, DFW does serve all of those destinations except AKL and SYD (HND was going to start soon, I believe). In addition, DFW serves ICN.


DFW-HND launched a few months ago and DFW-AKL has been pushed to winter 2021. So it's just SYD and CHC (winter 2021) that are served from LAX but not served from DFW.
 
Antarius
Posts: 2508
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Still no Asia service from CLT?

Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:54 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Antarius wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:

This is behind a paywall, but isn't DFW already the main Asia gateway?


LAX was officially the "pacific gateway" previously with flights to HKG, PVG, PEK, NRT, HND, AKL, SYD.

Although yes, DFW does serve all of those destinations except AKL and SYD (HND was going to start soon, I believe). In addition, DFW serves ICN.


DFW-HND launched a few months ago and DFW-AKL has been pushed to winter 2021. So it's just SYD and CHC (winter 2021) that are served from LAX but not served from DFW.


Ah yes. Thanks for the update!

And SYD is served on QF. AA has indicated expanded benefits on their metal neutral JV partners, so would be interesting to see how that shapes out.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL

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