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Kilgen
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Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Sun May 10, 2020 5:18 pm

Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Avianca Holdings Initiates Voluntary Reorganization Proceedings
BOGOTA, Colombia, May 10, 2020 /PRNewswire/ -- Avianca Holdings S.A. (NYSE: AVH, BVC: PFAVH) (the "Company" or "Avianca") and certain of its subsidiaries and affiliates today filed voluntary petitions under Chapter 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York to preserve and reorganize Avianca's businesses. LifeMiles™, Avianca's loyalty program, is administered by a separate company and is not part of the Chapter 11 filing.

The filing was necessitated by the unforeseeable impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, which has resulted in a 90% decline in global passenger traffic and is expected to reduce industry revenues worldwide by $314 billion, according to the International Air Transport Association. Avianca's scheduled passenger operations have been grounded since mid-March, reducing its consolidated revenue by over 80% and placing significant pressure on its cash reserves.

For more info:
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 56305.html
Last edited by SQ22 on Sun May 10, 2020 5:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Typo fixed
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Avianca files for Chapter 11

Sun May 10, 2020 5:20 pm

Very sad but not surprising. Do they have a restructuring plan?
 
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ua900
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Sun May 10, 2020 5:30 pm

I'm sure they'll still be there in some way. There are lots of local entities within Avianca that could be revived even if the group were to break apart permanently. Perhaps Taca could come back ;-)

From the looks of it, they may wind down operations in Peru temporarily in lockstep with the Chapter 11 filing, but there too, who else would fill the gap long term? The demand will still come back eventually, and when it does, most parts of Avianca will come back as well. Latin American economic growth over the past couple of years was a success story. While Avianca may have grown too much by gobbling up smaller entities and starting operations in more and more places, there will be plenty of room for a simplified Avianca operation in Latin America.
Last edited by ua900 on Sun May 10, 2020 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kilgen
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Sun May 10, 2020 5:30 pm

Most likely that is the case. But there is not much specific about fleet plans or changes in operations. They just talk about the day to day operations (wages, payments to vendors, etc):
From the PR notice:
As part of the process, Avianca has presented various motions before the Court in support of its reorganization and the Company expects the court to decide on these requests in the coming days. The Company has requested authority to pay certain prepetition employee wages, compensation and benefit obligations owed from before the filing date, as well as a request to continue paying wages and honoring employee benefit programs in normal day-to-day operations. Avianca has also requested authority to honor various prepetition obligations owed to certain of its travel agency partners, vendors and suppliers from before the filing date. The Company intends to pay vendors and suppliers, as well as travel agency partners in the ordinary course for goods and services provided on or after the filing date during its Chapter 11 process.


From the PR notice, they will wind down Peruvian operations:
In parallel to its Chapter 11 filing in the U.S., Avianca intends to commence a wind-down of its operations in Peru pursuant to local laws. This decision supports essential right-sizing efforts and will allow Avianca to renew its focus on core markets upon emergence from its court-supervised reorganization.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Sun May 10, 2020 7:31 pm

The filing made in the US Bankruptcy Court and choosing the district in NY (Southern District, based in lower Manhattan) as some lenders may be located there, they may have offices in the district and is the leading/preferred district for large bankruptcies in the USA. I would assume they will file in their home country if they have Receivership/Bankruptcy laws. Sad that one one the oldest airlines in the world is in trouble, I hope they don't disappear.
 
FlyinRabbit88
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Sun May 10, 2020 7:42 pm

“United stands to lose up to $700 million in loans related to Avianca.” Ouch!!!

https://whtc.com/news/articles/2020/may ... n=business
 
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par13del
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Sun May 10, 2020 7:48 pm

Amazing how USA Chpt.11 laws get blasted all over the place but non-USA carriers attempt to use it all the time.
Things that make you go hmmm....
 
Brickell305
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Sun May 10, 2020 7:48 pm

FlyinRabbit88 wrote:
“United stands to lose up to $700 million in loans related to Avianca.” Ouch!!!

https://whtc.com/news/articles/2020/may ... n=business

I believe UA already wrote those loans off in Q1 2020.
 
dcajet
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Sun May 10, 2020 7:48 pm

ltbewr wrote:
The filing made in the US Bankruptcy Court and choosing the district in NY (Southern District, based in lower Manhattan) as some lenders may be located there, they may have offices in the district and is the leading/preferred district for large bankruptcies in the USA. I would assume they will file in their home country if they have Receivership/Bankruptcy laws. Sad that one one the oldest airlines in the world is in trouble, I hope they don't disappear.


Avianca has been a US incorporated business for quite some time now (NY to be more precise). I am not 100% exactly sure why or how they can get away with this in Colombia. It's previous bankruptcy filing back in 2003, was also done in the US courts.

https://www.sgrlaw.com/ttl-articles/872/
Last edited by dcajet on Sun May 10, 2020 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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many321
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Sun May 10, 2020 7:50 pm

I think I can kiss goodbye my $1500 that I spent last December on txts to SAL for this upcoming summer.
 
United1
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Sun May 10, 2020 8:16 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
FlyinRabbit88 wrote:
“United stands to lose up to $700 million in loans related to Avianca.” Ouch!!!

https://whtc.com/news/articles/2020/may ... n=business

I believe UA already wrote those loans off in Q1 2020.


They did that was the biggest part of the special charges they took in Q1.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
danipawa
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Sun May 10, 2020 8:30 pm

Avianca Peru closed..Ecuador on review
 
RCS763AV
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Sun May 10, 2020 9:21 pm

Sad news but not unexpected. The LIM operation was hanging by a thread even before COVID-19. We'll probably see a complete refocus in BOG and minimal operations in SAL and UIO. Sad thing to see but all airlines will come out of this as much smaller companies. Let's hope this ensures the survival of one of Colombia's iconic companies. This is a sad day for Latin American aviation.
 
HVN2HEL2LAX
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Sun May 10, 2020 11:09 pm

Can't say I understand really. If I recall, all these "smaller" airlines were merged/bought to forum one large Avianca to independently avoid bankruptcy and be more competitive. Yet here we are.

I'm sure if you read some PR memo somewhere it would say something like "we are excited to be part of the Avianca family. This partnership will help strengthen our fiances and provide better service to our customers...blah, blah, blah." All that PR crap.
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Sun May 10, 2020 11:47 pm

RCS763AV wrote:
Sad news but not unexpected. The LIM operation was hanging by a thread even before COVID-19. We'll probably see a complete refocus in BOG and minimal operations in SAL and UIO. Sad thing to see but all airlines will come out of this as much smaller companies. Let's hope this ensures the survival of one of Colombia's iconic companies. This is a sad day for Latin American aviation.
Most of SAL operations were O/D routes inherited from the TACA merger, so it's highly unlikely those would go, unless, of course SAL O/D demand abruptly goes down. IMHO, any decision re: SAL will be taken in El Salvador by Kriete group, part owners of AV, and not by some board executives in Bogota.
May we see the split of AV between Colombian and Salvadorean (Central American) operations into 2 separate airlines? My guess, it's a possibility.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
guillelds
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Mon May 11, 2020 12:40 am

ltbewr wrote:
The filing made in the US Bankruptcy Court and choosing the district in NY (Southern District, based in lower Manhattan) as some lenders may be located there, they may have offices in the district and is the leading/preferred district for large bankruptcies in the USA. I would assume they will file in their home country if they have Receivership/Bankruptcy laws. Sad that one one the oldest airlines in the world is in trouble, I hope they don't disappear.

Don't forget AV is not colombian anymore and Avianca Holdings is based in Delaware
 
airboss787
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Mon May 11, 2020 1:12 am

Is this the biggest airline in terms of revenue, fleet size, pax carried to enter into some sort of bankruptcy proceeding?
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ChristopherS
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Mon May 11, 2020 1:23 am

airboss787 wrote:
Is this the biggest airline in terms of revenue, fleet size, pax carried to enter into some sort of bankruptcy proceeding?

Not at all. Just off the top of my head, AA was much bigger in all of those things last time it entered bankruptcy.
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airboss787
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Mon May 11, 2020 1:28 am

ChristopherS wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
Is this the biggest airline in terms of revenue, fleet size, pax carried to enter into some sort of bankruptcy proceeding?

Not at all. Just off the top of my head, AA was much bigger in all of those things last time it entered bankruptcy.


I meant this season. Sorry I was not clear. What I meant was during this horrific time, is Avianca the largest casualty? I know AA’s was bigger and others too.
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jfk777
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Mon May 11, 2020 1:40 am

After 2003 German Efromovich was presented a Avianca's savior, for the first 10 years it looked that way with a huge new Airbus A330 and A320 fleet. Avianca prospered for a long time after 2003. Then AV joins the Star alliance which I have always found strange, Skyteam would have been much better. Star did nothing for Avianca in Spain, the USA, or Latin America, their three most important markets. With Star came United airlines and we know how that has turned out.

As far as I can tell German borrowed $500 million USD from UA and took the money with him leaving AV holding the bag. I hope the Bankruptcy court attach every asset German has in the USA, the EU, Brazil, Switzerland, the UK, Jersey and Guernsey or any other legitimate jurisdiction.
 
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Mon May 11, 2020 2:57 am

many321 wrote:
I think I can kiss goodbye my $1500 that I spent last December on txts to SAL for this upcoming summer.


tell me about it… I have nearly 10TUSD on pending tickets with them…
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ua900
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Mon May 11, 2020 3:18 am

many321 wrote:
I think I can kiss goodbye my $1500 that I spent last December on txts to SAL for this upcoming summer.

Avianca wrote:
tell me about it… I have nearly 10TUSD on pending tickets with them…


Your tickets should be safe. That would also be consistent with what happened when say UA or AA filed. As long as the airline is still flying at all post-bankruptcy, which they will IMO. Check your inbox for the Avianca e-mail on that:

• Customers will be able to use tickets, vouchers, travel coupons, gift cards, and any additional travel services purchased before we initiated this process.

2travel2know2 wrote:
Most of SAL operations were O/D routes inherited from the TACA merger, so it's highly unlikely those would go, unless, of course SAL O/D demand abruptly goes down. IMHO, any decision re: SAL will be taken in El Salvador by Kriete group, part owners of AV, and not by some board executives in Bogota.
May we see the split of AV between Colombian and Salvadorean (Central American) operations into 2 separate airlines? My guess, it's a possibility.


Correct, SAL is a big hub and won't go away. Technically, Avianca El Salvador is a separate company, and there are others as well. So if that were needed, they could "unmerge".

jfk777 wrote:
Then AV joins the Star alliance which I have always found strange, Skyteam would have been much better. Star did nothing for Avianca in Spain, the USA, or Latin America, their three most important markets. With Star came United airlines and we know how that has turned out.


IMO the former ownership of CM by CO prevented UA from having a closer relationship with AV. The relationship between CM and UA is still pretty close today, for example UA lets us use PlusPoints for CM, which it only does for CM, NH, and LH. As a 1K, I found it close to impossible for many years to get AV and UA segments on a single ticket on 016 ticket stock.

LH, on the other hand, seems to have a much better relationship with AV, they offered a ton of connections and ticketing was super easy. For example, FRA-MIA-SAL on LH and TA / AV was never an issue to ticket, same for anything through BOG.

*A doing something for AV in Spain would have been tough as it would have either meant flying someone like LH, LX, OS on narrowbodies onwards from Spain or perhaps flying UA to BOG and then connecting to Spain on AV, which UA doesn't need because of EWR flights to the Iberian Peninsula and the Mediterranean. Routes north of that would have likely involved LH Group metal. AV had MAD / BCN on sale in Business for $2000ish ex-US to Spain via BOG for years, so they also seem to have struggled with these routes.

Personally, I would have flown AV more had they started flying MUC earlier than November 2018, or had they started to cover routes similar to LH Jump's SJO, say SAL-FRA to connect Europeans to Central America. As it stood for me, AV got my business on US-SAL and US-BOG a lot, including connections within Latin America. It wasn't as attractive from a crediting experience, but the customer experience was always better than UA in each respective cabin. No issues with bags, aged Flor de Cana in lieu of the cheap Bacardi at UA, good meals, great deserts, smaller 787 premium cabin, great Sala VIP Diamond Lounge at BOG with nicer food than UA clubs and L'Occitane en Provence products over the cheap Chinese made stuff UA has (Sunday Riley at present).

I hope to see AV expand again in the future, and hopefully even closer coordination with LH Group. UA wasn't a good partner for them and likely still won't be in the future given their close tie-up with CM.
Last edited by ua900 on Mon May 11, 2020 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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AntonioMartin
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Mon May 11, 2020 3:26 am

airboss787 wrote:
Is this the biggest airline in terms of revenue, fleet size, pax carried to enter into some sort of bankruptcy proceeding?

I'd say the largest worldwide after Mexicana...
 
airboss787
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Mon May 11, 2020 3:41 am

AntonioMartin wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
Is this the biggest airline in terms of revenue, fleet size, pax carried to enter into some sort of bankruptcy proceeding?

I'd say the largest worldwide after Mexicana...


Sorry for being off topic, but are you sure? From what I remember, DL, UA, AA and NW were all bigger than Mexicana’s.
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SJOtoLIR
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Mon May 11, 2020 4:03 am

We have to remind all the troubles experienced by Avianca in the mid-term: in 2017 a large pilot strike in Colombia meant the cancelation of a huge number of their flights, the airline also suspended the domestic operations within Peru, they sold the E90 fleet as well as the withdrawal of a certain number of routes that didn't last too much in commercial service: AV BOG-BOS, AV BOG-ORD, AV CTG-JFK, AV SAL-CTG, AV SAL-CLO, AV SAL-BOS, AV GUA-TGU, AV GUA-JFK, AV GUA-MCO, AV GUA-ORD, AV GUA-JFK and so on.
The Covid19 - pandemic was the final hit for them.
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Cedar
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Mon May 11, 2020 5:00 am

ua900 wrote:
I'm sure they'll still be there in some way. There are lots of local entities within Avianca that could be revived

From the looks of it, they may wind down operations in Peru temporarily in lockstep with the Chapter 11 filing, but there too, who else would fill the gap long term? The demand will still come back eventually, and when it does, most parts of Avianca will come back as well. Latin American economic growth over the past couple of years was a success story. While Avianca may have grown too much by gobbling up smaller entities and starting operations in more and more places, there will be plenty of room for a simplified Avianca operation in Latin America.



:thumbsup: Well said! - The demand will absolutely return, particularly when UA pax numbers begin to pick up again as well. Avianca is not going anywhere, this is an opportunity for them to reorganize & simplify and when pax numbers pick up again, they'll be in a better position.

Not only is there plenty of room for them - there is also a need due to the massive growth opportunity in South America.

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aeroblogger
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Mon May 11, 2020 7:58 am

ua900 wrote:
many321 wrote:
*A doing something for AV in Spain would have been tough as it would have either meant flying someone like LH, LX, OS on narrowbodies onwards from Spain or perhaps flying UA to BOG and then connecting to Spain on AV, which UA doesn't need because of EWR flights to the Iberian Peninsula and the Mediterranean. Routes north of that would have likely involved LH Group metal. AV had MAD / BCN on sale in Business for $2000ish ex-US to Spain via BOG for years, so they also seem to have struggled with these routes.


When AV announced their intention to join *A, JK was still around to provide feed in Spain. Unfortunate for both AV and JK that bankruptcy happened before they were able to be in *A together..
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Antaras
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Mon May 11, 2020 8:01 am

Let me guess: we will have a bunch of 787RR as well as A320neo in the 2nd-hand market.

Bad for both A and B.
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MIflyer12
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Mon May 11, 2020 11:20 am

Antaras wrote:
Let me guess: we will have a bunch of 787RR as well as A320neo in the 2nd-hand market.

Bad for both A and B.


Do you expect Avianca to restructure, or to liquidate? Restructuring into local entities may not mean much for total fleet size.

It's got to be a bad time to be selling aircraft old or new, but it's just 14 787s out of more than 900 787 deliveries to a very extensive list of operators.
 
jfk777
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Mon May 11, 2020 11:51 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
Antaras wrote:
Let me guess: we will have a bunch of 787RR as well as A320neo in the 2nd-hand market.

Bad for both A and B.


Do you expect Avianca to restructure, or to liquidate? Restructuring into local entities may not mean much for total fleet size.

It's got to be a bad time to be selling aircraft old or new, but it's just 14 787s out of more than 900 787 deliveries to a very extensive list of operators.


AV's 787 are not the only ones from bankrupt or financially challenged airlines. Hainan and Norwegian have decent sized 787 fleets with questionable futures. Those two still have undelivered 787 in Seattle with futures at different airlines.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Mon May 11, 2020 4:27 pm

I wonder if this forces LATAM to do the same if Avianca succeeds at cutting costs (?)
 
Avianca
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Mon May 11, 2020 6:48 pm

ua900 wrote:
many321 wrote:
I think I can kiss goodbye my $1500 that I spent last December on txts to SAL for this upcoming summer.

Avianca wrote:
tell me about it… I have nearly 10TUSD on pending tickets with them…


Your tickets should be safe. That would also be consistent with what happened when say UA or AA filed. As long as the airline is still flying at all post-bankruptcy, which they will IMO. Check your inbox for the Avianca e-mail on that:

• Customers will be able to use tickets, vouchers, travel coupons, gift cards, and any additional travel services purchased before we initiated this process.

2travel2know2 wrote:
Most of SAL operations were O/D routes inherited from the TACA merger, so it's highly unlikely those would go, unless, of course SAL O/D demand abruptly goes down. IMHO, any decision re: SAL will be taken in El Salvador by Kriete group, part owners of AV, and not by some board executives in Bogota.
May we see the split of AV between Colombian and Salvadorean (Central American) operations into 2 separate airlines? My guess, it's a possibility.


Correct, SAL is a big hub and won't go away. Technically, Avianca El Salvador is a separate company, and there are others as well. So if that were needed, they could "unmerge".

jfk777 wrote:
Then AV joins the Star alliance which I have always found strange, Skyteam would have been much better. Star did nothing for Avianca in Spain, the USA, or Latin America, their three most important markets. With Star came United airlines and we know how that has turned out.


IMO the former ownership of CM by CO prevented UA from having a closer relationship with AV. The relationship between CM and UA is still pretty close today, for example UA lets us use PlusPoints for CM, which it only does for CM, NH, and LH. As a 1K, I found it close to impossible for many years to get AV and UA segments on a single ticket on 016 ticket stock.

LH, on the other hand, seems to have a much better relationship with AV, they offered a ton of connections and ticketing was super easy. For example, FRA-MIA-SAL on LH and TA / AV was never an issue to ticket, same for anything through BOG.

*A doing something for AV in Spain would have been tough as it would have either meant flying someone like LH, LX, OS on narrowbodies onwards from Spain or perhaps flying UA to BOG and then connecting to Spain on AV, which UA doesn't need because of EWR flights to the Iberian Peninsula and the Mediterranean. Routes north of that would have likely involved LH Group metal. AV had MAD / BCN on sale in Business for $2000ish ex-US to Spain via BOG for years, so they also seem to have struggled with these routes.

Personally, I would have flown AV more had they started flying MUC earlier than November 2018, or had they started to cover routes similar to LH Jump's SJO, say SAL-FRA to connect Europeans to Central America. As it stood for me, AV got my business on US-SAL and US-BOG a lot, including connections within Latin America. It wasn't as attractive from a crediting experience, but the customer experience was always better than UA in each respective cabin. No issues with bags, aged Flor de Cana in lieu of the cheap Bacardi at UA, good meals, great deserts, smaller 787 premium cabin, great Sala VIP Diamond Lounge at BOG with nicer food than UA clubs and L'Occitane en Provence products over the cheap Chinese made stuff UA has (Sunday Riley at present).

I hope to see AV expand again in the future, and hopefully even closer coordination with LH Group. UA wasn't a good partner for them and likely still won't be in the future given their close tie-up with CM.


well reallity is that the famous vouchers, are delayed, so far I received only 1 of many pending… not even they comply with that (and well I am since years at least Gold member of LifeMiles....)
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
danipawa
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Tue May 12, 2020 12:31 am

Image

with 10 A318, 10 E190, 13 C208, 2 ATR42, 4 A320 retired from Avianca in 2019 and not counting AV Brasil ones.
 
Okcflyer
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Tue May 12, 2020 3:00 am

danipawa wrote:
Image

with 10 A318, 10 E190, 13 C208, 2 ATR42, 4 A320 retired from Avianca in 2019 and not counting AV Brasil ones.


As I recall, the A333’s were very recently leased to do BOG-JFK/FLL runs and to free up the higher CASM A332 / 788’s for missions the A333 couldn’t do because of BOG take off conditions.
 
XRadar98
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Tue May 12, 2020 3:16 am

Where is the “holy cow you scared the bejeezus outta me with you giant post emoji?”
:hissyfit:
Last edited by XRadar98 on Tue May 12, 2020 3:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
XRadar98
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Tue May 12, 2020 3:16 am

:hissyfit:
XRadar98 wrote:
Where is the “holy cow you scared the bejeezus outta me with you giant post emoji?”


Sorry for double scare post.
Unable to delete
 
dcajet
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Wed May 13, 2020 12:39 am

Okcflyer wrote:
danipawa wrote:
Image

with 10 A318, 10 E190, 13 C208, 2 ATR42, 4 A320 retired from Avianca in 2019 and not counting AV Brasil ones.


As I recall, the A333’s were very recently leased to do BOG-JFK/FLL runs and to free up the higher CASM A332 / 788’s for missions the A333 couldn’t do because of BOG take off conditions.


Both were relatively new frames (2012) ex-TransAsia Airways of Taiwan and were delivered to AV in early 2018. They were used mostly on the BOG-EZE/SCL/JFK/PUJ runs.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
tphuang
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Wed May 13, 2020 12:43 am

What kind of fleet does avianca still have left after voiding those leases.

I really like their cheap business class fares to South America, but don't see how that model is sustainable.
 
RCS763AV
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Wed May 13, 2020 1:14 am

2travel2know2 wrote:
Most of SAL operations were O/D routes inherited from the TACA merger, so it's highly unlikely those would go, unless, of course SAL O/D demand abruptly goes down. IMHO, any decision re: SAL will be taken in El Salvador by Kriete group, part owners of AV, and not by some board executives in Bogota.
May we see the split of AV between Colombian and Salvadorean (Central American) operations into 2 separate airlines? My guess, it's a possibility.


The Kriete group is more interested in their low cost venture Volaris IMO. And no, as in any company, the board, be it in Bogotá, Sao Paulo, Johannesburg or the Moon, makes the decisions, not the individual shareholders.

SAL O/D routes will be safe, but the hub will probably be reduced to its minimal operation, habing few connecting passengers for the time being. BOG will also operate in a skeleton schedule until demand picks up, and will still emerge a smaller hub. Routes like SAL-LIM/BOG/GYE/UIO will probably be temporarily axed, as many domestic and international frequencies ex-BOG and SAL.

ua900 wrote:
Correct, SAL is a big hub and won't go away. Technically, Avianca El Salvador is a separate company, and there are others as well. So if that were needed, they could "unmerge".


Well "big" is kind of a big word to describe SAL. It is a nice operation which makes money, but it has less than 100 daily departures. If they wanted to unmerge it could be beneficial, turning SAL into a purely O/D base with the Volaris brand controlled by the Kriete group, let AV focus on Colombia. But on the other hand, for economies of scale, I don't think the group will disintegrate, and certainly a stand alone operation in SAL might not be attractive to investors other than Kingsland Holdings.

TYWoolman wrote:
I wonder if this forces LATAM to do the same if Avianca succeeds at cutting costs (?)


Well LATAM is a much larger company but it is also heavily indebted and producing very small profits for their size. I read in a study by JPMorgan that LATAM only had one month more of cash to keep afloat in the pandemic than what Avianca Holdings did, so I wouldn't rule it out. Closures of the smaller LATAM subsidiaries like Paraguay and Argentina could come, and if things get really bad we might see Ecuador and Colombia go too.

danipawa wrote:
with 10 A318, 10 E190, 13 C208, 2 ATR42, 4 A320 retired from Avianca in 2019 and not counting AV Brasil ones.


Please remember AV Brasil had nothing to do with Avianca Holdings other than a brand franchise agreement and some codeshares. Do not make the mistake of associating both companies.

tphuang wrote:
What kind of fleet does avianca still have left after voiding those leases.


Avianca Holdings will still have a fleet of:

12 787-8s
6 A330-200
13 A321
60 A320
23 A319
15 ATR-72

IMO if things get worse we could see some extra 5-10 A32S and the 6 A330-200 gone.

*Edit: Changed 787-800s to 787-8s.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4682
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Wed May 13, 2020 1:22 am

tphuang wrote:
What kind of fleet does avianca still have left after voiding those leases.

I really like their cheap business class fares to South America, but don't see how that model is sustainable.


Per planespotters.net:

AV Colombia has 99 aircraft

AV Costa Rica has 12

AV Ecuador has 10

AV El Salvador has 13

AV Peru had 5

Assuming this is fairly accurate, and then substract the aircraft below, that gives you a good idea about their fleet,
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3856
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Wed May 13, 2020 1:31 am

Aircraft being returned per subsidiary:

ATR-72: 0
A319: Ecuador 2
A320: Colombia 3 / Peru 1 / Ecuador 2 / El Salvador 1
A321: Colombia 2
A332: 0
A333: Colombia 2
B787: Colombia 1

I'd guess the rest of the Avianca Peru fleet will also be returned.

https://www.transponder1200.com/avianca-retirara-flota-de-a330-300-regresara-un-787-8-dreamliner/ (link in spanish)
 
dcajet
Posts: 4682
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Wed May 13, 2020 1:32 am

RCS763AV wrote:


Well LATAM is a much larger company but it is also heavily indebted and producing very small profits for their size. I read in a study by JPMorgan that LATAM only had one month more of cash to keep afloat in the pandemic than what Avianca Holdings did, so I wouldn't rule it out. Closures of the smaller LATAM subsidiaries like Paraguay and Argentina could come, and if things get really bad we might see Ecuador and Colombia go too.



Your size idea for LATAM subsidiaries and actual footprint in the different regional markets they operate is a bit off. Argentina is way bigger than Colombia and Ecuador. And only behind Brazil and Chile in the region, even with the pre COVID Argentina crisis. In a good year, Argentina's revenues are close to the ones from their homeland, Chile. There is no way LATAM will drop Argentina or close 4M, unless there is some catastrophe of sorts concerning the airline.

Image
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3856
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Wed May 13, 2020 1:53 am

dcajet wrote:
Your size idea for LATAM subsidiaries and actual footprint in the different they operate is a bit off. Argentina is way bigger than Colombia and Ecuador. And only behind Brazil and Chile in the region, even with the pre COVID Argentina crisis. In a good year, Argentina's revenues are close to the ones from their homeland, Chile. There is no way LATAM will drop Argentina, unless there is some catastrophe of sorts concerning the airline.



Those numbers show revenue per country and not revenue per company, so they're not entirely accurate. A lot of ex-Argentina ASMs are actually flown by Latam Chile, Peru. Paraguay and Brazil. And regarding my post, fleet wise LATAM Argentina is actually smaller than LATAM Colombia, although bigger by ASMs due to the EZE-MIA route. However, I said LATAM Argentina because I believe they're at higher risk of liquidation given the current government of Argentina is unfriendly to foreign businesses and the operation poses a bigger risk to the group than those of Colombia and Ecuador for that reason.

Nonetheless, this is a thread about Avianca Holdings' Chapter 11 filing.

In related news, AVH has obtained court permission, after only one day of filing, to carry on the following activities:

Continue honoring payroll.
Repay outstanding obligations to tour operators and travel agencies dated before May 10, 2020 and continue honoring future obligations to such suppliers.
Continue offering their services to clients.


https://www.businesstravelnews.com/Procurement/Avianca-Gets-OK-to-Continue-Operations-After-Bankruptcy-Filing

AVH's shares take a 78% plunge in the Colombian Stock Exchange (BVC), trading has been suspended in NYSE:

https://www.larepublica.co/finanzas/accion-de-avianca-en-la-bolsa-de-valores-de-colombia-se-desploma-7867-hasta-96-3004838

(link in spanish)
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Wed May 13, 2020 3:58 am

We need an aircraft returned to leasing companies thread. While the number of A32x returned is small, with do little demand, I expect a lease rate hit. Although A319s had poor resale before Covid19.

Any news on financing for Avianca?

Lightsaber
Flu+Covid19 is bad. Consider a flu vaccine, if not for yourself, to protect someone you care about.
 
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Embajador3
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:28 am

Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Wed May 13, 2020 6:17 am

So, what will happen to AV Costa Rica? Will they downsize their SJO hub?
Flying Together
 
EWRamp
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:46 pm

Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Wed May 13, 2020 3:50 pm

There were 3 Avianca Airbus in IAH yesterday. Two with the Avianca branding stripped, HC-CLF and HC-CKN. And N680TA painted in AirSial livery
 
danipawa
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:18 am

Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Wed May 13, 2020 4:11 pm

Airbus A319 -112 1882 HC-CKN Avianca Ecuador ferried 12may20 MDE-IAH-GYR on return to lessor (+ 2078 HC-CLF MDE-IAH-MZJ) ex N882MX

Airbus A320 -233 3538 AP-OTA Air Sial ferried 12may20 MDE-IAH-GYR, N-reg prior delivery ex N680TA

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=1
 
aviationlover7
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:35 am

Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Wed May 13, 2020 6:17 pm

Sad to hear about Avianca....
Will this mean that other competitors such as Viva Air may expand rapidly their market-share after covid-19 crisis is over?
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3856
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Wed May 13, 2020 7:46 pm

aviationlover7 wrote:
Sad to hear about Avianca....
Will this mean that other competitors such as Viva Air may expand rapidly their market-share after covid-19 crisis is over?


Everyone in the industry is in very bad shape. I don't think any airline will have the capacity to expand rapidly after the crisis. Also keep in mind they'll still be operating through the reorganization it's not like they're shutting down, so it's not like they're leaving a gigantic void.

Embajador3 wrote:
So, what will happen to AV Costa Rica? Will they downsize their SJO hub?


They haven't had a hub in SJO for over 6 years. No news on the Costa Rican subsidiary though. Just Peru, El Salvador, Ecuador and Colombia are being mentioned.
 
Airlines0613
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:06 am

Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

Wed May 13, 2020 8:41 pm

If I’m correct, I remember hearing the SAL operations were the only profitable market for AV, pre-COVID of course. I think they both would fare better with a demerger.

Also, UA, CM, and AV were planning to have a JV throughout all of Latin America, so I believe they can prosper if they can make it out of this hole in the future.

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