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randomdude83
Posts: 47
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 1:59 pm

ethernal wrote:
randomdude83 wrote:
So what happens to the refurbished brand new delta one seats? do they get relocated to perhaps newer a350 or a330?


I believe the 777 seats are slightly wider than the A350 (and certainly A330) seats so they will likely have to be scrapped unless someone is able to do some seat surgery. Possibly some of the mechanicals can be reused but I am not a seat expert.

At the end of the day, the is cash already spent on the refurbs, and in this environment, cash means everything. So it is a sunk cost that means nothing to Delta.


That is not too bright on delta's part if they send brand new expensive seats like that to the desert for scrapping. even economy seats...maybe they can use them to refurbish current aircraft atleast?
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:01 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
If Virgin Australia survives and maintains its JV with Delta, DL will very likely keep flying to SYD.


It's also possible, presuming VA keeps the 77W fleet, that DL decides simply codeshare on VA services from LAX to Australia rather than fly down under with their own metal.
 
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SLCUT2777
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:03 pm

Predicting DL will retire all Boeing aircraft and be strictly an Airbus user by 2025-29
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
A3501041
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:04 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
Obviously - officially “listed” range is one thing and real capability is another, but Airbus puts the 359 range at 8100nm.

That covers LAX-SYD with ease. JNB on the other hand is 8450nm from ATL. Would be somewhat shocked if JNB isn’t back eventually in some form, supposedly printed money for years


ATL-JNB is 8439mi, 7333nmi. A359 listed range is 8100nmi, almost 800 more than needed to the route, probably the sufficient for a no penalties flight.
 
xwb565
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:04 pm

The four newest a350s were delivered at 617k lbs mtow (along with other mods) and can handle LAX-SYD year round with substantial cargo uplift. This is if DL still wants to continue with that route.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:06 pm

A3501041 wrote:
Certainly ATL-JNB and LAX-SYD will be operated by A350 as demand comes back. Philippine Airlines fly their JFK-MNL with the 359, witch is longer than both DL routes. Other airlines operates long sectors with A350, such as SAA, SIA with the non-ULR 359, QR, so I think it’s feasible that Delta will switch to the A350 to Australia and South Africa.


PR A359s much higher MTOW. Also, JNB is 5600 feet AMSL.
 
IWMBH
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:12 pm

Sad to see the 777's go (especially the -LR's, they'll become a rare sight) but understandable in the current situation.
They'll probably get a one-way ticket to the scrapyard.

I always thought that the USAF would order the 777LR(F) some day to replace the KC-10's. But, with that out of the question I don't think we'll see these birds much longer in the US.
 
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enilria
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:13 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
enilria wrote:
Regardless of aircraft capability, just because of the decline in fleet count I expect Australia, JNB, and India won’t be back for years.


They're on the hook for buying four used LATAM A350s, ten A350s that LATAM had on order, and the ten A350s that DL deferred to 2025-26.

If Virgin Australia survives and maintains its JV with Delta, DL will very likely keep flying to SYD. I'm not so confident about JNB or anything in India.

ATL-PVG is farther than LAX-SYD. Is ATL-PVG 'easier' due to typical winds or available diversion points?

You could make the counter argument that if VA survives that DL has less reason to stay in the market as VA could operate it.

Also, you can bet any new delivery will likely be deferred.
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:19 pm

Sad to see the 777s go. This is an easy way for DL to get out of the 3x3x3 coach configuration without PR impact.
 
xwb565
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:19 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
A3501041 wrote:
Certainly ATL-JNB and LAX-SYD will be operated by A350 as demand comes back. Philippine Airlines fly their JFK-MNL with the 359, witch is longer than both DL routes. Other airlines operates long sectors with A350, such as SAA, SIA with the non-ULR 359, QR, so I think it’s feasible that Delta will switch to the A350 to Australia and South Africa.


PR A359s much higher MTOW. Also, JNB is 5600 feet AMSL.


No they are not. All of DL's older a350s are at 606k lbs and the newer ones are at 617.
 
ethernal
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:20 pm

randomdude83 wrote:
ethernal wrote:
randomdude83 wrote:
So what happens to the refurbished brand new delta one seats? do they get relocated to perhaps newer a350 or a330?


I believe the 777 seats are slightly wider than the A350 (and certainly A330) seats so they will likely have to be scrapped unless someone is able to do some seat surgery. Possibly some of the mechanicals can be reused but I am not a seat expert.

At the end of the day, the is cash already spent on the refurbs, and in this environment, cash means everything. So it is a sunk cost that means nothing to Delta.


That is not too bright on delta's part if they send brand new expensive seats like that to the desert for scrapping. even economy seats...maybe they can use them to refurbish current aircraft atleast?


I think the economy seats are gone too - they are too wide as well. Possibly they would fit into 767s in the future?

I'm not sure what you mean by "that is not too bright on Delta's part". The refurbs are done. The cash has already been spent. People need to stop thinking about the income statement and start thinking about the cashflow statement. Yes, Delta will take a massive writedown on these planes sometime this year on one of their earning reports. But that is fake money. What matters is real money - what is their free cashflow? Or, better stated, how small can they get their negative cashflow number down to?

Everything else is irrelevant. This isn't about optimizing profits, this is about surviving. Every day those 777 are flown and in the air or even on the ground with a paid pilot pool is a bigger negative cashflow number for Delta. They had to cut something, and this was the most logical cut relative to their route network. Their route network (outside of BOM and JNB) does not need the 777. Their route network does need shorter-range lower-capacity narrowbodies like the 767.
 
jghealey
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:22 pm

Could this be part of a buy-back deal with Boeing for the rumoured order of 100 737MAX? Unlikely, but it's quite possible, especially after they spent so much on refurbishing them.
 
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Revelation
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:25 pm

SLCUT2777 wrote:
Predicting DL will retire all Boeing aircraft and be strictly an Airbus user by 2025-29

I think Airbus and DL have been a great match for each other. The big A330neo order was badly needed by Airbus and it fits DL's needs for TATL flying quite well at a good price. A350 is a great compliment and extremely capable. On the other hand, DL was very enthusiastic about the proposed NMA and has a need for something to replace 757 and 767 and to keep Airbus honest. They also have a 200+ aircraft fleet of 737NGs that will take a while to wind down. I doubt your 2029 target will be hit.
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CALMSP
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:25 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
enilria wrote:
Regardless of aircraft capability, just because of the decline in fleet count I expect Australia, JNB, and India won’t be back for years.


Do you think the same stands for UA’s routes?


I think with CPT already being seasonal, can't see that jumping back. Australia will be back, as will India from EWR. (SFO will be a while)
 
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GEUltraFan9XGTF
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:27 pm

SLCUT2777 wrote:
Predicting DL will retire all Boeing aircraft and be strictly an Airbus user by 2025-29


I know this is the dream of so many fans but I predict you are wrong. Delta won't ignore the ultra cheap MAX deal and I assure you that some sort of mix of Boeing 787/767-NG/757-MG/MOM/NMA will find its way to Delta. They have zero interest in not being able to play A and B off of each other.
© 2020. All statements are my own. The use of my statements, including by journalists, YouTube vloggers like "DJ's Aviation", etc. without my written consent is strictly prohibited.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:29 pm

Posters at PC saying the AE memo highlights are:

ER Bases closing in SLC, MSP, DTW
717 bases closing in MSP, NYC
10,730 active pilot positions (a reduction of about 2,500 positions

That would put the furlough list around late 2016-early 2017.
I can easily see the 175’s replacing the 717’s, and the 220’s replacing 737 flying.
And this is just the first round of displacements.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:36 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
tb727 wrote:
CX747 wrote:
Tough call but international flying is going to be smaller and the 777s are older and easier to retire.

Wonder if this assists the 777P2F program? Whole bunch of 777s now available and not a lot of demand on the pax side.


Just was wondering the same thing when I saw this thread. I bet they get doors cut in them.


Delta's 777 fleet is split across two subtypes, the -200ER and -200LR. If a P2F program gets launched, would it be valid for both?


The P2F program is just for the -300ER, not for any of the original length models, so probably not.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
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Revelation
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:39 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
Posters at PC saying the AE memo highlights are:

ER Bases closing in SLC, MSP, DTW
717 bases closing in MSP, NYC
10,730 active pilot positions (a reduction of about 2,500 positions

That would put the furlough list around late 2016-early 2017.
I can easily see the 175’s replacing the 717’s, and the 220’s replacing 737 flying.
And this is just the first round of displacements.

I got most of this, but what does 'ER' mean in this context?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Articuno
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:39 pm

Ryefly wrote:
They should trade with American. Delta 777's for American's A330 fleet.

Exactly! The 777 and the A332 are the smallest widebody fleets of DL and AA, respectively, and the A332s won’t be reactivated by AA for a while.

If they trade, DL will operate A330s with all four engine types. Meanwhile, the 8 RR-powered 772ERs fit perfectly into AA’s 772ER fleet, and the 77Ls are of the same generation/family as AA’s 77Ws.
 
PHLspecial
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:42 pm

Articuno wrote:
Ryefly wrote:
They should trade with American. Delta 777's for American's A330 fleet.

Exactly! The 777 and the A332 are the smallest widebody fleets of DL and AA, respectively, and the A332s won’t be reactivated by AA for a while.

If they trade, DL will operate A330s with all four engine types. Meanwhile, the 8 RR-powered 772ERs fit perfectly into AA’s 772ER fleet, and the 77Ls are of the same generation/family as AA’s 77Ws.

Great idea but there is no money
 
BBDFlyer
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:43 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
The question on everyone's lips... can the A359 make it both ways from LAX-SYD with good cargo and passenger loads? If the answer is yes then a few people are going to be screaming into their pillows when it's announced.


Sydney is payload restricted with an alternate on the A350. It usually is not restricted with a 777.
 
Oliver2020
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:50 pm

ethernal wrote:
randomdude83 wrote:
ethernal wrote:

I believe the 777 seats are slightly wider than the A350 (and certainly A330) seats so they will likely have to be scrapped unless someone is able to do some seat surgery. Possibly some of the mechanicals can be reused but I am not a seat expert.

At the end of the day, the is cash already spent on the refurbs, and in this environment, cash means everything. So it is a sunk cost that means nothing to Delta.


That is not too bright on delta's part if they send brand new expensive seats like that to the desert for scrapping. even economy seats...maybe they can use them to refurbish current aircraft atleast?


I think the economy seats are gone too - they are too wide as well. Possibly they would fit into 767s in the future?

I'm not sure what you mean by "that is not too bright on Delta's part". The refurbs are done. The cash has already been spent. People need to stop thinking about the income statement and start thinking about the cashflow statement. Yes, Delta will take a massive writedown on these planes sometime this year on one of their earning reports. But that is fake money. What matters is real money - what is their free cashflow? Or, better stated, how small can they get their negative cashflow number down to?

Everything else is irrelevant. This isn't about optimizing profits, this is about surviving. Every day those 777 are flown and in the air or even on the ground with a paid pilot pool is a bigger negative cashflow number for Delta. They had to cut something, and this was the most logical cut relative to their route network. Their route network (outside of BOM and JNB) does not need the 777. Their route network does need shorter-range lower-capacity narrowbodies like the 767.


The seats are the same for the 772er, 772lr, and the a359. This is from the actual Delta website I apologize that I can't post all of the links for comparison.

https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/airbus/a350
 
Lootess
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:51 pm

I don't think anyone predicted the 777 would be next but it's a rather understandable decision in these hard times. While there is such thing as cutting off your nose, and the 777 isn't doing that because they have the A350 order book from LATAM, so this won't be a very big deal long-term.

LAX-SYD should be ok on A350.

JNB-ATL is a hot and heavy challenge. Was a wonderful route during good times, the return would be a good problem to solve on a future sunny day.

Triple7Lr wrote:
MrBren wrote:
That's excellent news. 777s are too noisy and too thirsty.


To Noisy?? They sound beautiful :box:


Nah, A350s RR Trents sound beautiful
 
Alias1024
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:53 pm

Revelation wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Posters at PC saying the AE memo highlights are:

ER Bases closing in SLC, MSP, DTW
717 bases closing in MSP, NYC
10,730 active pilot positions (a reduction of about 2,500 positions

That would put the furlough list around late 2016-early 2017.
I can easily see the 175’s replacing the 717’s, and the 220’s replacing 737 flying.
And this is just the first round of displacements.

I got most of this, but what does 'ER' mean in this context?


The 7ER pilot category at DL flies the 752, 753, and 763 aircraft.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
chonetsao
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:55 pm

Ryefly wrote:
They should trade with American. Delta 777's for American's A330 fleet.


Hahaha! the thought came through my mind too! AA's 15 A332 and 9 A333 to part exchange DL's 18 B777-200 (8 ER and 10LR)...Could work for both airlines.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:57 pm

enilria wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
enilria wrote:
Regardless of aircraft capability, just because of the decline in fleet count I expect Australia, JNB, and India won’t be back for years.


They're on the hook for buying four used LATAM A350s, ten A350s that LATAM had on order, and the ten A350s that DL deferred to 2025-26.

If Virgin Australia survives and maintains its JV with Delta, DL will very likely keep flying to SYD. I'm not so confident about JNB or anything in India.

ATL-PVG is farther than LAX-SYD. Is ATL-PVG 'easier' due to typical winds or available diversion points?

You could make the counter argument that if VA survives that DL has less reason to stay in the market as VA could operate it.

Also, you can bet any new delivery will likely be deferred.


You might, if you thought pilots didn't care about loss of premium long-haul routes to codeshare partners. I'm smarter than that - and so are Delta pilots with the codeshare provisions they have negotiated by contract.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 2:58 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Ryefly wrote:
They should trade with American. Delta 777's for American's A330 fleet.


Hahaha! the thought came through my mind too! AA's 15 A332 and 9 A333 to part exchange DL's 18 B777-200 (8 ER and 10LR)...Could work for both airlines.


That doesn't shrink either fleet, and it's primarily the demand for less flying that's driving the 777 retirement.
 
VSMUT
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:00 pm

tb727 wrote:
CX747 wrote:
Tough call but international flying is going to be smaller and the 777s are older and easier to retire.

Wonder if this assists the 777P2F program? Whole bunch of 777s now available and not a lot of demand on the pax side.


Just was wondering the same thing when I saw this thread. I bet they get doors cut in them.


Nope. I do foresee holes being cut in them, but as part of a scrapping process.

777-200ERs have been cheap for long enough to make conversions possible - nobody bit on. This isn't about to change.

777-200LRs are too rare to warrant the development and certification costs. There are less than 60 still around and remaining operators have small fleets, so they will be released to the market in minuscule amounts at a time.

Besides, the market will soon be flooded with cheap 777-300ERs for which a cargo conversion is already being developed. If the last financial crisis was any indication, it is only a matter of time before cargo rates crash and demand for conversions drops with it.
 
nicode
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:01 pm

So DL will have an only Airbuses widebodies fleet.
 
Oliver2020
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:04 pm

Oliver2020 wrote:
ethernal wrote:
randomdude83 wrote:

That is not too bright on delta's part if they send brand new expensive seats like that to the desert for scrapping. even economy seats...maybe they can use them to refurbish current aircraft atleast?


I think the economy seats are gone too - they are too wide as well. Possibly they would fit into 767s in the future?

I'm not sure what you mean by "that is not too bright on Delta's part". The refurbs are done. The cash has already been spent. People need to stop thinking about the income statement and start thinking about the cashflow statement. Yes, Delta will take a massive writedown on these planes sometime this year on one of their earning reports. But that is fake money. What matters is real money - what is their free cashflow? Or, better stated, how small can they get their negative cashflow number down to?

Everything else is irrelevant. This isn't about optimizing profits, this is about surviving. Every day those 777 are flown and in the air or even on the ground with a paid pilot pool is a bigger negative cashflow number for Delta. They had to cut something, and this was the most logical cut relative to their route network. Their route network (outside of BOM and JNB) does not need the 777. Their route network does need shorter-range lower-capacity narrowbodies like the 767.




The seats are the same for the 772er, 772lr, and the a359. This is from the actual Delta website I apologize that I can't post all of the links for comparison.

https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/airbus/a350

To clarify the first class seats are the same size, the premium economy and main cabin seats are .5 inches wider.

Best regards Oliver
 
ikramerica
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:06 pm

Considering the original 777 has been flying my entire adult life, it’s not surprising the retirement would be accelerated.

The 77L was bought for specific missions at DL that other more efficient aircraft can now cover.

As a passenger, I’ve never liked DLs 777 product. So won’t miss it.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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Revelation
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:09 pm

Alias1024 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Posters at PC saying the AE memo highlights are:

ER Bases closing in SLC, MSP, DTW
717 bases closing in MSP, NYC
10,730 active pilot positions (a reduction of about 2,500 positions

That would put the furlough list around late 2016-early 2017.
I can easily see the 175’s replacing the 717’s, and the 220’s replacing 737 flying.
And this is just the first round of displacements.

I got most of this, but what does 'ER' mean in this context?


The 7ER pilot category at DL flies the 752, 753, and 763 aircraft.

Wow, that will make for a lot of pilot displacement, between the pilot count being reduced by ~20% and the bases being closed, and add to that the withdrawal of the 777 fleet.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Sancho99504
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:13 pm

MrBren wrote:
That's excellent news. 777s are too noisy and too thirsty.

One day, when everything is so quiet that you can hear the hair in your ears grow, you'll be missing the "noisy" airplanes.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
deltairlines
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:15 pm

ikramerica wrote:
Considering the original 777 has been flying my entire adult life, it’s not surprising the retirement would be accelerated.

The 77L was bought for specific missions at DL that other more efficient aircraft can now cover.

As a passenger, I’ve never liked DLs 777 product. So won’t miss it.


The Delta One suites on the 777 was the best product they had - better than the A350. Slightly wider suite, overhead bins for everyone, gaspers for all suites (which don't exist in the middle suites on the A350 since there is no overhead bin).
 
kiowa
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:17 pm

Triple7Lr wrote:
MrBren wrote:
That's excellent news. 777s are too noisy and too thirsty.


To Noisy?? They sound beautiful :box:


Too thirsty?? Delta owns a refinery.

Seriously, quite a shame to retire such an excellent aircraft. Tough decisions are being made in this "new world economy" and everyone might not like them.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:19 pm

Damn, what a shame. I love the look of the DL 77Ls and their big blue GE90s.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:20 pm

NWAESC wrote:
ERAUMBA wrote:
More fleet retirements are coming; the CVG pilot Base is closing, and, the displacement/surplus bid comes out today, too.



When is it slated to close? Any rough idea on how many pilots are based there? Displacement numbers will be interesting for sure.


155 pilots
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
TonyClifton
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:22 pm

With 39 A350s in service+on order and 3 dozen 330neos coming some day, that chips away at the 18 777s. Keeping an entire fleet for SYD and JNB when neither will be flying for a good while doesn’t make sense. Rationalization is the key word across airlines these days. The excess categories and optimization works when everything is sunny. Now it’s just excess costs and inefficiency on planning.
 
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thewizbizman
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:22 pm

Does anyone know the status of the airframes now? Will there be a final revenue / retirement flight? Or are they grounded and expected to stay that way until they are handed off?
"Aviation is the youngest big industry, but it is the fastest growing baby ever. A few years ago, it was called impossible to fly…The day of the airplane is surely here."

April 17, 1929 / C. E. Woolman
 
TonyClifton
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:26 pm

thewizbizman wrote:
Does anyone know the status of the airframes now? Will there be a final revenue / retirement flight? Or are they grounded and expected to stay that way until they are handed off?

Some are parked, some are flying cargo.
 
LY777
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:27 pm

What a shame.
Their 3-3-3 configuration was great...
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:30 pm

SLCUT2777 wrote:
Predicting DL will retire all Boeing aircraft and be strictly an Airbus user by 2025-29

No way that B739ERs are retired in that timeframe considering the last of which were delivered in 2019.
 
voxkel
Posts: 161
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:17 pm

Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:30 pm

SAA operated A359 to JFK nonstop, can't see why DL couldn't do it on JNB-ATL. This route did well from what I remember.

I'm curious if DL may choose to run the BOM flight from ATL instead of JFK since the economics of ULH flights are better for the A359 than 77L.
 
AA747123
Posts: 284
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:15 pm

Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:31 pm

Ryefly wrote:
They should trade with American. Delta 777's for American's A330 fleet.


Actually a good idea, I remember back in the early 80s, AA swapped their 747s for Pan Am DC10s. But give the likely hood of an AA liquidation I doubt any bank holding the liens on the DL 77L would take that deal.
 
TonyClifton
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 3:19 pm

Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:32 pm

voxkel wrote:
SAA operated A359 to JFK nonstop, can't see why DL couldn't do it on JNB-ATL. This route did well from what I remember.

I'm curious if DL may choose to run the BOM flight from ATL instead of JFK since the economics of ULH flights are better for the A359 than 77L.

No difference using the 359 JFK-BOM than 772. Plane and crew still came routed through ATL, and ATL looks to be opening a 350 crew base. I wouldn’t expect to see these ULH routes back for a while, so SYD, JNB, etc aren’t even material.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3914
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:37 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
MrBren wrote:
That's excellent news. 777s are too noisy and too thirsty.

One day, when everything is so quiet that you can hear the hair in your ears grow, you'll be missing the "noisy" airplanes.


I'll miss the 777 but as someone who works on the ramp I'm all in favor of quieter airplanes.
 
WorldFlier
Posts: 373
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:10 pm

Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:46 pm

acavpics wrote:
I understand them retiring the ER's. But, Why the LR's though? Those are barely a decade old.


0) Cash is King right now
1) Cash Operating Cost of 77L is probably much higher than the other birds
2) Where do you *need* a 77L that the Cash Operating Cost can be justified

1+2 = Dead 77L
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 19591
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:46 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
SLCUT2777 wrote:
Predicting DL will retire all Boeing aircraft and be strictly an Airbus user by 2025-29


I know this is the dream of so many fans but I predict you are wrong. Delta won't ignore the ultra cheap MAX deal and I assure you that some sort of mix of Boeing 787/767-NG/757-MG/MOM/NMA will find its way to Delta. They have zero interest in not being able to play A and B off of each other.

I do not expect every 767 to be retired nor the 739ERs. There is no chance the 739s will not ne flying 15 years from now at DL.

I expect on the other side DL to negotiate a brutal MAX deal and Boeing to offer a 787 deal. Perhaps an early announcement, but no money Changing hands for a while and no deliveries until DL is ready.

I do personally believe DL is now done with the 777. :cry:

Do we have a last 77E and 77L flight schedule. If DL doesn't offer a retirement plan, the cascade will be brutal.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
DylanHarvey
Posts: 301
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:49 pm

346fetish wrote:
cokepopper wrote:
So, not returning to Johannesburg for awhile? Or is the 350 capable?


359 is capable JNBATL.

The newer 359's can get close to 275t out of JNB. The night departure time helps too. Less cargo, but thats simply because the 77L can do like 7200nm+ at MZFW.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2573
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: DL to permanently retire entire 777 fleet

Thu May 14, 2020 3:49 pm

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