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Grrflyer
Posts: 4
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Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Sun May 17, 2020 7:45 am

This post made my day. Thanks a ton for sharing this great find! :highfive:
 
ELBOB
Posts: 320
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:56 am

Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Sun May 17, 2020 8:12 am

Sadly, just a white page on desktop Firefox. Requires specific level of WebGL so probably not a good choice of technology if you want to reach a wide audience.
 
afcjets
Posts: 3454
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Sun May 17, 2020 12:38 pm

I think that interior is actually early 1980s and that the tequila sunrise was Stephen Wolf's doing especially since gray is his favorite color. This is the 727 interior from the 1970s before the one shown in the 3D model in the opening post.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-UNITED ... Sw6sJcw7lL
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7776
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Sun May 17, 2020 1:28 pm

ELBOB wrote:
Sadly, just a white page on desktop Firefox. Requires specific level of WebGL so probably not a good choice of technology if you want to reach a wide audience.


It works fine in Chrome and Edge, and with those two alone a ~70% market share of browsers worldwide.
 
TW870
Posts: 1215
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Sun May 17, 2020 4:27 pm

longhauler wrote:
TW870 wrote:
I can't imagine the 4-pallet configuration with just the aft airstairs as the sole exit. If the aircraft went off the runway onto uneven terrain - especially with it heavy tail and engines - it would be easy for those stairs to get blocked, thus turning the airplane into a firetrap. I know certification standards are much tougher now for combis for some of these very reasons.

The 4 pallet configuration was the maximum allowed in a Combi configuration on the 727-100. This was for the very reason you cite. With 4 pallets, the four over wing exits were still accessible. Not only was more than one exit required, but also wing exits were required for a water landing.

I am sure the FAA viewed the rear stair exit with some skepticism. Much like the tail cone exit of the DC-9, it wouldn’t take much for it to be inoperable.


Oh right I didn't think about the water landing issue. Even if a -100 combi was not overwater equipped (ie no vests and rafts), it still would have to be certified for a water landing. The aft stairs would be useless, and thus there would have to be a way to reach the overwing exists. I guess the question is whether or not Transport Canada or the FAA counted the bulkhead door as meeting that requirement. My guess, at least down here in the states, is no.

It is interesting, though, how the -100 became much less desirable as a combi over time. Easter, United, Northwest, and many others ordered lots of them. My guess is because in the early-60s when they placed the orders, most smaller stations were served by piston engine aircraft that didn't have a lot of belly cargo capacity. The -100 combi would allow an airline to go into a station mostly served by Convairs, Martins, DC-6s, and 749 Connies and offer expanded cargo service. But by the mid-1970s, these were mostly jet stations. Once most flights were operated by DC-9s and full-pax 727s and 737s, there was enough belly cargo capacity to undermine the niche of the -100combi. It makes sense that some of them migrated up to Canada where there is more of a market for outsize cargo.
 
jersey777
Posts: 30
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Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Sun May 17, 2020 5:14 pm

AA's 727-100 were configured much the same way. They were difficult to work as a flight attendant with the single galley positioned in the middle of the cabin. The forward half of the galley was catered for first class and the aft half was catered for coach. You can imagine how crowded the galley got while being set up. Working first class was especially difficult because of the coach twilight zone separating the galley from first class. I had to work number one on this plane from JAX-DFW in 1992. It was a full dinner service back then. We were expected to place everything we needed in the two first class carts and we parked them at the forward entry door and worked off the top of the cart. You had to be extremely organized and try not to forget anything. I was happy when this plane was retired shortly thereafter.
 
xxcr
Posts: 467
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:37 pm

Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Sun May 17, 2020 5:35 pm

damn!! so much legroom.........that's a thing of the past foresure haha! E+ doesnt even come close to this lol.
 
mmahpeel
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:18 pm

Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Sun May 17, 2020 5:39 pm

TW870 wrote:
The galley service crews just hated them, as they always got stuck in place - or conversely wouldn't lock to be secured for takeoff.


Yes, and the doors to the compartments with the trays were often stuck and difficult to remove. Many times we literally had to kick them or bang on them to get them off - certainly entertaining for the adjacent passengers to watch!

I was one of the odd ones that liked running the trays. Also once the plane was airborne I thought the airflow in the cabin was pretty good and usually the 727 was not stuffy (although sitting in the aft jumpseats anytime before actual takeoff was a completely different story - it could be so hot and stuffy as to induce sweat and nausea).
 
mmahpeel
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:18 pm

Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Sun May 17, 2020 5:44 pm

afcjets wrote:
I think that interior is actually early 1980s and that the tequila sunrise was Stephen Wolf's doing especially since gray is his favorite color. This is the 727 interior from the 1970s before the one shown in the 3D model in the opening post.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-UNITED ... Sw6sJcw7lL


I think this brownish interior started to get phased in around 1978 or 1979.

However, what is referred to as 'tequila sunrise' was introduced before Stephen Wolf - it was the new standard interior scheme as introduced on the 767-222 (1982) and slowly spread to the majority of the Boeing fleet.
 
mmahpeel
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:18 pm

Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Sun May 17, 2020 5:55 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
Thanks for the very interesting post! The beverage cart stowage between first and economy is presumably the area on the left-hand side. Do you know what the purpose of the stowage compartment opposite it is, with the curtain and restraining net? Large items of carry-on baggage? Checked baggage? Something else?

V/F


This was a closet and carry-on baggage compartment.

I believe it was TWA (or AA - perhaps someone knows for sure) that during the mid 1970s started a 'carry-on your bag and skip the checked-baggage' marketing campaign aimed at business travelers. The other major carriers including UA quickly added stowage compartments on their planes. Also, overhead bin installation began in earnest.

For UA on the 727-22, when this started there were actually two compartments - the one you reference and an additional one that replaced the seats in row 3 on the right side of cabin. This created a F cabin of 10 seats.

Here is a link to a seat diagram:

https://frequentlyflying.boardingarea.c ... from-1978/

Later on, UA removed the forward of the two compartments and replaced it with 2 F seats for a capacity of 12 in the F cabin. This became the standard configuration for the 727-22 until retirement.
 
TW870
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Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Sun May 17, 2020 7:10 pm

mmahpeel wrote:
TW870 wrote:
The galley service crews just hated them, as they always got stuck in place - or conversely wouldn't lock to be secured for takeoff.


Yes, and the doors to the compartments with the trays were often stuck and difficult to remove. Many times we literally had to kick them or bang on them to get them off - certainly entertaining for the adjacent passengers to watch!

I was one of the odd ones that liked running the trays. Also once the plane was airborne I thought the airflow in the cabin was pretty good and usually the 727 was not stuffy (although sitting in the aft jumpseats anytime before actual takeoff was a completely different story - it could be so hot and stuffy as to induce sweat and nausea).


Oh those compartment doors were a nightmare. I always used a pen to open them. Put the top of the cap of the pen into the little circular finger whole, and then carefully push upward on the whole body of the pen (to avoid breaking it and exploding ink all of the F passengers in row 1 and 2!) until the pin came out of the slot. When I was first learning the plane I would do it with my fingers, and thus the blood and bandaid problem. I did like those deep counters on the aft side of both galleys on the -200, though, as it gave you lots of room to set up trays. I was a bit clumsy as flight attendants go, and am a tall person - so I always found the tray running race to be tricky. I liked working up front for that reason.

And thank you for posting that diagram. Can you imagine that ASM costs on that beast with three thirsty JT8Ds guzzling fuel and only 96 seats! You can really see why the 20 foot stretch to the -200 was the lifeline to an extra decade of service for the -200.
 
mmahpeel
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:18 pm

Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Sun May 17, 2020 8:08 pm

Cody wrote:
Can any United employees from the 1980s help me? The very last United DC-8 economy cabin was grey seats with orange and red squares and the 747sp's some of the DC-10's had this as well. They had a sort of NBC peacock design on the bulkheads.

The first 767's were delivered with the grey seats and rainbow diamond pattern down the middle. This interior would later migrate to the rest of the fleet with the exception of the DC-8.

Also, can anyone confirm another United interior in the 80s, possibly on the 737-200 that featured solid blue seats with a wavy grey bulkhead? It was featured in the movie, "When Harry Met Sally."

Why so many different interiors at once for United in the 1980s?


Yes when the DC8-61s became 71s there was a complete overhaul of the interior with the scheme you reference. I was acquainted with the particular designer of this scheme and I probably have a few pictures of the interior somewhere. Notably, the first class seats were a brownish-taupe color.... I really liked how the -71s looked inside! This design scheme was also put on most of the DC10s, but by the time the fleet retired it had adopted the grey and 'tequila sunrise' scheme of the Boeing fleet.

I don't ever recall solid blue seats in the 80s, but there was a wavy grey, pinkish and taupe bulkhead covering on many of the 737s and I think on the original 767s too.
 
mmahpeel
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:18 pm

Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Sun May 17, 2020 8:10 pm

TW870 wrote:

Oh those compartment doors were a nightmare. I always used a pen to open them. Put the top of the cap of the pen into the little circular finger whole, and then carefully push upward on the whole body of the pen (to avoid breaking it and exploding ink all of the F passengers in row 1 and 2!) until the pin came out of the slot.


Yes I remember learning how to do that as well - funny! Also, the liquor cart would often be stuck on the mushroom tie-down and we would have to dig that long rod-like cart release tool which, by that point, was always buried underneath all kinds of bags in the closet. Good times!
 
Cody
Posts: 2266
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Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Sun May 17, 2020 8:58 pm

mmahpeel wrote:
Cody wrote:
Can any United employees from the 1980s help me? The very last United DC-8 economy cabin was grey seats with orange and red squares and the 747sp's some of the DC-10's had this as well. They had a sort of NBC peacock design on the bulkheads.

The first 767's were delivered with the grey seats and rainbow diamond pattern down the middle. This interior would later migrate to the rest of the fleet with the exception of the DC-8.

Also, can anyone confirm another United interior in the 80s, possibly on the 737-200 that featured solid blue seats with a wavy grey bulkhead? It was featured in the movie, "When Harry Met Sally."

Why so many different interiors at once for United in the 1980s?


Yes when the DC8-61s became 71s there was a complete overhaul of the interior with the scheme you reference. I was acquainted with the particular designer of this scheme and I probably have a few pictures of the interior somewhere. Notably, the first class seats were a brownish-taupe color.... I really liked how the -71s looked inside! This design scheme was also put on most of the DC10s, but by the time the fleet retired it had adopted the grey and 'tequila sunrise' scheme of the Boeing fleet.

I don't ever recall solid blue seats in the 80s, but there was a wavy grey, pinkish and taupe bulkhead covering on many of the 737s and I think on the original 767s too.


I really liked that final DC-8 interior and wondered why they had the 767s delivered with the rainbow and grey seats only to come up with something totally different for the DC-8's and later DC-10s.

I have seen a photo of the inside of a UAL 747sp with the DC-8 seat cover pattern. Can you confirm if the short-lived L1011 fleet had this as well?

I am only going by memory but I think that bulkhead I am remembering was sort of grey and blue but looked like a giant fan or peacock.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 898
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Sun May 17, 2020 9:17 pm

I remember those colors! We used to fly UAL 727s from LAX to Cleveland all of the time, the only airline my very set in her ways Grandma would fly on. Yes, the seventies were pretty horrific.

A few of them had gold paisley sidewalls as well.


I have a vague recollection of that, as well, but didn't their 707s also have that? I remember a 707 interior that had sidewalls like that. Thanks!
 
CRJ900
Posts: 2387
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:48 am

Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Sun May 17, 2020 10:14 pm

mmahpeel wrote:
All United 727s as well as the DC8 fleet had a palletized galley system. This was designed way back in the DC8 days to allow for quick change outs of the galleys. Instead of removing multiple carriers per galley, the idea was to basically only swap out 4 components per galley - two large palletized units and two carrier boxes.


There's a vintage seat map of the UA DC-8-71 on the web showing a double galley between F and Y. Two galley units by the RH JetEscape exit and two galley units by the RH1 galley service door.

Were they able to get the palletized galley through the JetEscape exit too or was the front galley more of a preparation galley with ovens and water boilers and non-removable storage units?

Was the aft galley palletized too?
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
cschleic
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:47 pm

Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Sun May 17, 2020 11:18 pm

UA444 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Those bins are much later. I would guess late 1980s. What aircraft is this, and when was the presentation filmed?

It’s N7001U, the first 727 built. It was retired by UA in 1991.


Which means it's the one at the Museum of Flight in Seattle in you want to visit it in person, complete with that interior. Brings back a lot of memories flying UA around the west.
 
NYCAAer
Posts: 782
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm

Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Mon May 18, 2020 2:20 am

I flew on AA’s 727-100s often in the early to mid 1980s, this brings back a lot of fond memories even though this is United. In the early 80s AA had the brown, rust and gold interiors with a touch of avocado green. The bulkheads had a farmyard design of a barn with a winding path, something that I thought was odd. All the headrest covers were an off-white vinyl with a red, white and blue stripe running along the edges, and were kept in place with Velcro. In the mid 80s AA refurbished the interiors to sky blue and beige. I remember that sometimes AA would staff the 100s with 5 flight attendants, because they were working trips that were mixed with the 200s.

In the late 80s I became a flight attendant for AA and only ever worked 3 legs- DFW-CVG-SDF-DFW, on the little stubby. Having one galley was hectic for the legs I worked, with 4 flight attendants, but the service was really easy because there were so few passengers.
 
United1
Posts: 4155
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Mon May 18, 2020 2:32 am

Aptivaboy wrote:
I remember those colors! We used to fly UAL 727s from LAX to Cleveland all of the time, the only airline my very set in her ways Grandma would fly on. Yes, the seventies were pretty horrific.

A few of them had gold paisley sidewalls as well.


I have a vague recollection of that, as well, but didn't their 707s also have that? I remember a 707 interior that had sidewalls like that. Thanks!


UA never operated 707s perhaps you are thinking about the 720s?

UA added a few seats onto those birds (probably to lower the CASM a bit.). 12F 96Y

http://www.departedflights.com/UA7270889.html

I believe this was the final configuration UA operated them in. I don't think the -100s ever were fitted with Y+.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
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EddieMunster
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 2:08 pm

Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Mon May 18, 2020 3:05 pm

I flew the hell out of these from DEN in the mid-80s, mostly with UA but occasionally Continental. Good legroom, but boy did these things take forever to get off the ground at 5200-ft. elevation, especially on hot summer days! The takeoff roll seemed to need the whole runway, and the climb out was agonizingly slow compared to those great 757s, which rocketed off the deck. Or at least that’s how it seemed. For you drivers out there, was there something about the 727 power plant that made it feel so underpowered on takeoff, or was it something else about the flying characteristics? Also interesting to see that cabin again which looked just like the interior of the Tupelov-154, another famous tri-jet.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 898
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Mon May 18, 2020 5:17 pm

UA never operated 707s perhaps you are thinking about the 720s?


Yes, that's what they probably were. Definitely 4 engines and United, and not the DC-8. I only flew on a United DC-8 once.
 
trex8
Posts: 5554
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Mon May 18, 2020 10:49 pm

Thanks for the memories. Flew the UA 727s so many times ORD-DSM!
 
United1
Posts: 4155
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Mon May 18, 2020 11:33 pm

trex8 wrote:
Thanks for the memories. Flew the UA 727s so many times ORD-DSM!


This was a good thread :)

ORD-OMA always seemed to leave from F6A...before United's Terminal of Tomorrow was built...was a nice walk outside and up the airstairs to a waiting 727.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
User avatar
vhtje
Topic Author
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Re: Virtual tour of UA 727-022

Tue May 19, 2020 5:45 am

ELBOB wrote:
Sadly, just a white page on desktop Firefox. Requires specific level of WebGL so probably not a good choice of technology if you want to reach a wide audience.


Firstly, it’s not mine, I just shared it, which was very clear from my post, so why you are directing criticism of the tech employed towards me is puzzling, and secondly, why can’t you just enjoy it for what it is, without needlessly nit-picking?

If it is not rendering on Firefox, you might have some add-in that is adversely affecting it. Try it without any add-ins, or use a different browser. It works perfectly on Safari on a Mac and iPad.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.

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