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dcajet
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Air Canada to lay off 20,000 workers

Sat May 16, 2020 12:57 am

Effective June 7, the layoffs will affect more than half of the company's 38,000 employees, the airline said.

In a memo sent to all employees on Friday that was obtained by CBC News, Air Canada said the move comes after a "fundamental review of what we must do to successfully emerge from this crisis and begin rebuilding our airline."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-ca ... -1.5572596
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
MIflyer12
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Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 1:01 am

https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/air-can ... -1.4941791

MONTREAL -- Air Canada plans to lay off at least 20,000 employees as the COVID-19 pandemic continues to wreak havoc on the airline industry.

Effective June 7, the layoffs will impact more than half of the company's 38,000 employees, it said.

At a minimum, layoffs will reach 19,000 -- half of the current payroll -- and could go as high as 22,800.

To minimize the number of layoffs, Air Canada will ask flight attendants to slash their schedules, go on leave for up to two years or resign with travel privileges, according to an internal bulletin to members from the Canadian Union of Public Employees sent out Thursday night and obtained by The Canadian Press.

Though traffic is expected to pick up somewhat before year's end, Air Canada CEO Calin Rovinescu said last week the recovery will be slow, with at least three years of subpar earnings.


That is a very big fraction of the total work force. Regrets to all. It will be interesting to see how they handle pilots given displacement/retraining rules.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 1:06 am

How many employees do they have?
 
ACA772LR
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 1:08 am

jfklganyc wrote:
How many employees do they have?


38,000, so this is roughly 60% of employees
 
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piedmontf284000
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 1:28 am

When an airline is flying at only 5 percent of capacity and burning through 22 million a day, there is not much else they can do. Labor is their largest expenditure.
 
ShinyAndChrome
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 1:43 am

Cripes almighty I feel for these AC workers. I can't imagine how chaotic it would be, laying off half your workforce with less than a month's notice.

There may be some differences in terminology between Canada and the US but when the article says layoff, is it a full severance or something closer like a furlough where people have first right to come back if things improve?
 
ACA772LR
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 1:47 am

ShinyAndChrome wrote:
Cripes almighty I feel for these AC workers. I can't imagine how chaotic it would be, laying off half your workforce with less than a month's notice.

There may be some differences in terminology between Canada and the US but when the article says layoff, is it a full severance or something closer like a furlough where people have first right to come back if things improve?


I highly doubt they were given less than a months notice. I believe it’s closer to a furlough with rights to come back according to seniority.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 1:54 am

September 30th in the US will be far worse, I fear.
 
ACA772LR
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 1:56 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
September 30th in the US will be far worse, I fear.


This is 60% of AC’s workforce, a pretty huge sobering percentage its sad all around everywhere
 
ShinyAndChrome
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 3:04 am

ACA772LR wrote:
ShinyAndChrome wrote:
Cripes almighty I feel for these AC workers. I can't imagine how chaotic it would be, laying off half your workforce with less than a month's notice.

There may be some differences in terminology between Canada and the US but when the article says layoff, is it a full severance or something closer like a furlough where people have first right to come back if things improve?


I highly doubt they were given less than a months notice. I believe it’s closer to a furlough with rights to come back according to seniority.


Just going off the article. Maybe there was internal communication earlier on to that effect but I'd be surprised if it was communicated to workers beforehand and didn't get leaked shortly after.
 
ShinyAndChrome
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 3:16 am

ACA772LR wrote:
ShinyAndChrome wrote:
ACA772LR wrote:

I highly doubt they were given less than a months notice. I believe it’s closer to a furlough with rights to come back according to seniority.


Just going off the article. Maybe there was internal communication earlier on to that effect but I'd be surprised if it was communicated to workers beforehand and didn't get leaked shortly after.


Respectfully, I ask why you’d be surprised if it was communicated beforehand? Just want to understand your position


I wouldn't be surprised if workers heard of their individual departments' more specific staffing plans before this company wide meno. I guess I would've just expected that the media would have gotten a hold of some of that communication shortly afterwards, as happened with the wider memo.
 
BAorAB
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 3:31 am

It'll be no difference in the US come September 30th! Canadians are managing it better, facing the realities early, as is BA. It'll be interested to see what the pilot resolution will be, that's undoubtedly the cash drainer from the salary pool. Tough times. A reality check for the Industry. Goodbye to $100K senior cabin crew at places like UA, AA, BA and QF!
 
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exFWAOONW
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 3:43 am

Things will bounce back eventually. I know they want to stop the bleeding, but this seems like overkill for a short term issue. Were they bloated and needed to shrink before and the downturn is a convenient excuse?
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
txkf2010
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 3:52 am

They definitely weren’t bloated. They were nearly 1000 pilots short before all of this
 
codyul
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 3:58 am

ACA772LR wrote:
I highly doubt they were given less than a months notice. I believe it’s closer to a furlough with rights to come back according to seniority.

I still haven't received any official notice but the writing is on the wall at my seniority. And it's less than a month away for June 7th...
I think they were hoping for a quicker bounce back. Goal posts being moved daily I suspect.
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jfklganyc
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 10:48 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
September 30th in the US will be far worse, I fear.



No I dont think so.

TSA numbers are really starting to climb.

I would expect 20 to 30% to go on September 30 but nowhere near 60.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 10:54 am

BAorAB wrote:
It'll be no difference in the US come September 30th! Canadians are managing it better, facing the realities early, as is BA. It'll be interested to see what the pilot resolution will be, that's undoubtedly the cash drainer from the salary pool. Tough times. A reality check for the Industry. Goodbye to $100K senior cabin crew at places like UA, AA, BA and QF!


I don’t know how in the world you can say that.

The United States government stepped in and provided a much needed bailout to avoid losing hundreds of thousands of employees.

Britain let them twist in the wind

This will allow US companies to let things settle down and formulate a go-forward plan.

Specifically to Britain and Europe, This will particularly hurt them because the countries are too small.

In a time of uncertainty when countries are making visitors quarantine, and every nation has their own set of rules for visitors to jump through, The US carriers have a 330 million person nation and domestic travel to fall back on. And those numbers are already climbing. I really feel for British Airways and virgin Atlantic… There is nowhere for them to fly.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 11:21 am

exFWAOONW wrote:
Things will bounce back eventually. I know they want to stop the bleeding, but this seems like overkill for a short term issue. Were they bloated and needed to shrink before and the downturn is a convenient excuse?


Eventually yes. I wouldn't say this is a short term problem. We won't see business travel return until after there is a vaccine and it has time to be given to everyone. That's not really short term. AC knows they need business travel to really return. Leisure uptick won't be enough to support long international routes. All of these airlines have cash flow issues with much higher expenses then sales for a while. AC was not bloated they can't afford to just pay everyone for three years until it fully recovers. Same exact problem all the US carriers are facing
 
Sokes
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 11:23 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/air-canada-to-lay-off-20-000-workers-amid-travel-industry-collapse-1.4941791
...
To minimize the number of layoffs, Air Canada will ask flight attendants to slash their schedules, go on leave for up to two years ...

That sounds quite realistic to me and is not the same as getting rid of high paid labor. If someone is high in seniority he/ she should do it.
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bennett123
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 11:27 am

If they go on leave for 2 yrs, will they do other jobs or get paid by govt.

Doubt that many have that much in savings.
 
CRJ5000
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 1:07 pm

BAorAB wrote:
It'll be no difference in the US come September 30th! Canadians are managing it better, facing the realities early, as is BA. It'll be interested to see what the pilot resolution will be, that's undoubtedly the cash drainer from the salary pool. Tough times. A reality check for the Industry. Goodbye to $100K senior cabin crew at places like UA, AA, BA and QF!


First and foremost, heart goes out to all the employees at AC. Hope the recovery is quicker than we anticipate. Horrible news, albeit not unexpected.

Not sure how it works at BA/QF, but at least at the US carriers it won't be goodbye to the $100K senior cabin crew. It will be goodbye to even more $35K cabin crew. US carriers have to furlough in inverse seniority order so the senior high wage earners will stay on the payroll. The lesser paid junior crew will be cut. It will be a nightmare for the airlines with diverse fleets when it comes to furloughing pilots. The amount of displacements a single furlough can cause between different fleet types is staggering. Single fleet airlines will have a serious advantage because of this.

The following is from a DL MEC committee document..It has the 777 on it because it was written before the retirement was announed.
.
"Displacements High Price Tag: The Financial and Personnel Costs The cost of initial qualification, not including a pilot's salary, is $40-50,000 per pilot. This number varies by the length of training, whether it is off-site, and who is instructing. Further adding to the costs are:
There is no seat lock for displaced pilots; they can bid in the first available AE, thus negating some of the previous displacements.
Mandatory displacements carry moving expenses to include lease cancellations, packing, motor vehicle transportation and insurance costs if pilots elect to relocate to a Delta base.
Displacements from senior categories can cause a waterfall of training events.
As an example, we will look at the displacement of a junior A350 Captain:
The A350 Captain displaces to the A330 A seat.
An A330 Captain gets displaced to the B7ER A seat.
A B7ER Captain gets displaced to the B73N A seat.
A B73N Captain gets displaced to the A220 A seat.
An A220 Captain gets displaced to the A330 B seat.
An A330 F/O gets displaced to the B7ER B seat.
A B7ER F/O gets displaced to the B73N B seat.
A B73N F/O gets displaced to the A220 B seat.
This one displacement causes seven additional training events, making the cost of displacing the A350 Captain approximately $280-350,000 by conservative estimates – and that is without the potential associated moving expenses. A worst-case scenario, as described by management during an Investor Day presentation, a B777 Captain displacement can potentially trigger 17 training events, representing a staggering sum of up to $850,000 for just that one senior Captain.

Displacements, and the disruption that comes with them, can also bring high personal costs to pilots and their dependents. Budgets are reworked as income is reduced, and families suffer when pilots find themselves forced to commute across the country to new domiciles causing them to spend significant time away from their homes. Even if a pilot and his or her family can move, it still represents an erosion of quality of life to uproot and relocate."
 
Blerg
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 1:18 pm

That's quite a lot of unemployed even for a country the size of Canada.
 
AEROFAN
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 1:53 pm

exFWAOONW wrote:
Things will bounce back eventually. I know they want to stop the bleeding, but this seems like overkill for a short term issue. Were they bloated and needed to shrink before and the downturn is a convenient excuse?


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:
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Triple7Lr
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 1:54 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
September 30th in the US will be far worse, I fear.



No I dont think so.

TSA numbers are really starting to climb.

I would expect 20 to 30% to go on September 30 but nowhere near 60.



Define really starting to climb? While passengers numbers are trending in the right direction the TSA numbers still reflect travel is down over 90% year over year.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 2:33 pm

Sokes wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/air-canada-to-lay-off-20-000-workers-amid-travel-industry-collapse-1.4941791
...
To minimize the number of layoffs, Air Canada will ask flight attendants to slash their schedules, go on leave for up to two years ...

That sounds quite realistic to me and is not the same as getting rid of high paid labor. If someone is high in seniority he/ she should do it.


The issue there is that if they're high seniority they're also high pay and probably getting the trips they want. It's hard to walk away from that, even temporarily. You might find some people requesting leave out of concern for safety (or desire to spend more time with family).

bennett123 wrote:
If they go on leave for 2 yrs, will they do other jobs or get paid by govt.

Doubt that many have that much in savings.


I don't know what Canada has as a regular unemployment pay top-up mechanism, nor how it may has enhanced this for COVID times (nor the duration of that enhancement).
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 2:37 pm

Triple7Lr wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
September 30th in the US will be far worse, I fear.



No I dont think so.

TSA numbers are really starting to climb.

I would expect 20 to 30% to go on September 30 but nowhere near 60.


Define really starting to climb? While passengers numbers are trending in the right direction the TSA numbers still reflect travel is down over 90% year over year.


That's 2-3x higher than just weeks ago (AA was 3.5x higher last week), capacity was also cut by 90% for most airlines so it's not like travel would be able to return any faster.

exFWAOONW wrote:
Things will bounce back eventually. I know they want to stop the bleeding, but this seems like overkill for a short term issue. Were they bloated and needed to shrink before and the downturn is a convenient excuse?


I wouldn't expect any of the US3 to cut more than 40% of employees, I agree AC's cuts seem very severe, especially for a carrier like AC who has a sizable foothold in the leisure market compared to its US equivalents.
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cityshuttle
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 2:40 pm

And in Europe, especially with the LH Group, governments are requiring job guarantees and commitment to hub and routes in order to support & bail out OS / SN / etc ... not facing reality and that airlines are required to emerge strong enough after the crisis and when travel slowly picks up again ... as of now this requires the lay off of staff, especially since the fleet size is also decreasing.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 2:45 pm

BAorAB wrote:
Goodbye to $100K senior cabin crew at places like UA, AA, BA and QF!


You don't know how this works - not at U.S. carriers, anyway. The $35K-$60K FAs will get cut -- inverse seniority layoff. The $100K FAs (most senior) will have jobs and minimum hour guarantees so long as the carrier is flying.
 
joeblow10
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 2:48 pm

exFWAOONW wrote:
Things will bounce back eventually. I know they want to stop the bleeding, but this seems like overkill for a short term issue. Were they bloated and needed to shrink before and the downturn is a convenient excuse?


Everybody keeps saying "short term issue" - I think this is a lot more of a longer term issue for the industry and global economy than people are making it out to be.

So let's say the virus goes away in 2021. Still means very few are traveling until then. And what about the economic devastation this has brought? Highest unemployment since the 1930s, and we're probably going to surpass that in the coming months. Even if people can travel, they won't be for financial or health reasons. And when the big guys make a vast portion of their money on business travel, that's going to really hurt them when remote work becomes more and more popular and the 5 "essential" trips you made to close a deal suddenly really becomes 1-2.

I'm not sure we'll see passenger levels back to 2019 size for 5, maybe 10 years. Even then, not sure if we'll get back due to the inevitable loss of business traffic you'll see permanently.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 3:01 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
I wouldn't expect any of the US3 to cut more than 40% of employees...


Do want to make that 40% of full-time-equivalent employees in total, or not more than 40% by craft?

If 40% is your over/under by craft, I'll take the over on FAs on at least two of the ten major U.S. carriers. Pilots (and mechanics), maybe not. If demand (seats * TRASM) is forecasted to be off more than 60% 4Q20, several carriers just won't have the cash flow to be so 'heavily' staffed.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 3:33 pm

AEROFAN wrote:
exFWAOONW wrote:
Things will bounce back eventually. I know they want to stop the bleeding, but this seems like overkill for a short term issue. Were they bloated and needed to shrink before and the downturn is a convenient excuse?


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:


I don't know where people think a company can get money to pay workers, unless a magical government that prints money simply hands that money to workers, as was the case in the US.

The airline simply doesn't have the money to pay a huge payroll with no money coming in.

It simply doesn't have the money.

It doesn't exist.

And even if they did have money in the bank, the fiduciary duty of the managers is to look after the customer flight safety first, and shareholder assets (the company's equipment and money) right after that. It is not appropriate to use shareholder's money to pay employees beyond what is needed to take care of customers.

And the customers do not want to fly.

Again... airline CEOs are not there to make employees happy or hand out money to them. This is a horrible situation, but it will pass, and be just another cycle in the airline industry.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 3:39 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
I wouldn't expect any of the US3 to cut more than 40% of employees...


Do want to make that 40% of full-time-equivalent employees in total, or not more than 40% by craft?

If 40% is your over/under by craft, I'll take the over on FAs on at least two of the ten major U.S. carriers. Pilots (and mechanics), maybe not. If demand (seats * TRASM) is forecasted to be off more than 60% 4Q20, several carriers just won't have the cash flow to be so 'heavily' staffed.


I said employees, not specifically pilots or flight attendants. AC is saying they *hope* to fly 25% capacity by the end of the year while currently only operating 5% capacity according to the site mentioned in the thread, a much more severe capacity drop than any of the US carriers therefore requiring less workers

Virgin Atlantic for example has heavy international exposure, and is "only" cutting 35% of employees.

If demand does end up off more than 60% for one quarter, that doesn't mean you fire 60%+ of your employees if demand is expected to be only off by 20-40% the quarter after.

Therefore I am fairly confident in the 40% number, as a company needs to be able to balance its short & long-term needs.
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DL747400
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 3:47 pm

This is not shocking in the slightest. AC have simply arrived at the same conclusion that demand will not be returning quickly and they know that they do not have the funds to keep everyone on the payroll until it does. As a result, they are simply shifting a good portion of their payrolls onto the Canadian taxpayers now, because they can and because they are not prevented from doing so. The same thing would already be happening here in the USA without the CARES restrictions. How many people still believe that COVID19 will not a lasting impact on all forms of travel?
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Revelation
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 3:55 pm

Triple7Lr wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
September 30th in the US will be far worse, I fear.

No I dont think so.

TSA numbers are really starting to climb.

I would expect 20 to 30% to go on September 30 but nowhere near 60.

Define really starting to climb? While passengers numbers are trending in the right direction the TSA numbers still reflect travel is down over 90% year over year.

Actually I just did the math in another thread and TSA numbers show pax count is down 92% YOY.

TSA daily figures are definitely climbing, but they are climbing from a small base and have a long way to go.

OTOH I don't think we'll see the 60% cuts in US that we are seeing in CA.

I hope the recovery trend continues to pick up steam and we avoid any 2nd wave.

Yet most sources I've read say we're going to be lucky to be back to 25% of last year's demand by the fall season, 50% by next summer, etc.
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ltbewr
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 3:57 pm

60% staff suspension, that is just plain obscene but sadly necessary.

For furloughed staff, especially pilots, before returning to service, I suspect they would have to do updated training to meet National aviation rules to keep their licenses valid along with special pandemic health and safety training, perhaps their security clearances would also need an update review..
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 4:02 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
exFWAOONW wrote:
Things will bounce back eventually. I know they want to stop the bleeding, but this seems like overkill for a short term issue. Were they bloated and needed to shrink before and the downturn is a convenient excuse?


Everybody keeps saying "short term issue" - I think this is a lot more of a longer term issue for the industry and global economy than people are making it out to be.

So let's say the virus goes away in 2021. Still means very few are traveling until then. And what about the economic devastation this has brought? Highest unemployment since the 1930s, and we're probably going to surpass that in the coming months. Even if people can travel, they won't be for financial or health reasons. And when the big guys make a vast portion of their money on business travel, that's going to really hurt them when remote work becomes more and more popular and the 5 "essential" trips you made to close a deal suddenly really becomes 1-2.

I'm not sure we'll see passenger levels back to 2019 size for 5, maybe 10 years. Even then, not sure if we'll get back due to the inevitable loss of business traffic you'll see permanently.

I have to agree, without a vaccine and solid testing protocols, you’lll be telling your grandchildren what is what like when you could just get on a plane and go to another country, whenever you felt like it.

And that is going to take YEARS....
 
HJM
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 4:02 pm

Unless otherwise agreed upon, lay-off comes with recall rights. Traffic return of 25% is an estimate only. World-wide 14 day quarantines need to be lifted along with government "do not travel" recommendations to see any return to normalcy.
 
Whiteguy
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 4:13 pm

bennett123 wrote:
If they go on leave for 2 yrs, will they do other jobs or get paid by govt.

Doubt that many have that much in savings.


The 2 year leave means your gone, no longer working at AC for the 2 years.
 
airzona11
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 4:20 pm

Hopefully rationally we can open the economies back up and get planes filled and flying again.

exFWAOONW wrote:
Things will bounce back eventually. I know they want to stop the bleeding, but this seems like overkill for a short term issue. Were they bloated and needed to shrink before and the downturn is a convenient excuse?


Agree. Airlines are getting assistance now and no doubt will clear out the bad/under performing/bloated segments.

Yes Covid is crushing them but that doesn’t mean there’s not the convenience of restructuring with Taxpayer assistance.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 4:25 pm

Whiteguy wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
If they go on leave for 2 yrs, will they do other jobs or get paid by govt.

Doubt that many have that much in savings.


The 2 year leave means your gone, no longer working at AC for the 2 years.


You are still employed by the company, just not coming to work. I took a voluntary leave of absence from my airline and it is like being on an extended weekend as far as the airline goes. I am still in the system, I can still login to the internal website, I can still travel, I keep my seniority, I keep my company ID, and my background checks remain current. On the date we agreed to return me to work I come back in and resume work. Might have to go back through a few refresher training programs but all in all I am not "gone". Just not coming to work and getting paid.
 
777Mech
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 4:46 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
September 30th in the US will be far worse, I fear.


You'll know soon enough. August 1st.
 
LNCS0930
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 4:51 pm

777Mech wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
September 30th in the US will be far worse, I fear.


You'll know soon enough. August 1st.


Not at Delta they won’t but at the others probably. Delta hasn’t even gotten their retirement program out yet. I’m guessing the layoffs and furloughs there won’t occur til 11-1 or 11-15 with notice around 9/1-9/15
 
Whiteguy
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 5:44 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
Whiteguy wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
If they go on leave for 2 yrs, will they do other jobs or get paid by govt.

Doubt that many have that much in savings.


The 2 year leave means your gone, no longer working at AC for the 2 years.


You are still employed by the company, just not coming to work. I took a voluntary leave of absence from my airline and it is like being on an extended weekend as far as the airline goes. I am still in the system, I can still login to the internal website, I can still travel, I keep my seniority, I keep my company ID, and my background checks remain current. On the date we agreed to return me to work I come back in and resume work. Might have to go back through a few refresher training programs but all in all I am not "gone". Just not coming to work and getting paid.


Depends on the type of leave. Yes you’re in the system, some travel privileges ie no other airline travel, and return to work dates or recall. Transport Canada ID and stuff like that will need to be returned. Depending on the code AC puts in for the leave the employee could apply for EI as well.
 
Sokes
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 5:45 pm

bennett123 wrote:
If they go on leave for 2 yrs, will they do other jobs or get paid by govt.

I don't know.

bennett123 wrote:
Doubt that many have that much in savings.

You are probably right.

So what would you advise to do to those high on seniority?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 6:08 pm

For people who say this is a "short term" problem and they shouldnt do layoffs.

Let's say traffic amazingly rebounds next spring (less than a year) that's the shortest term anyone could consider . The airlines won't be "back to normal" and can't support the staff levels they have now. Even if demand suddenly comes back the airlines have so much debt to pay off and smaller fleets. They have to be leaner and smaller to survive and try to pay some of these huge debts off. This is about airlines literally having cash and not filing for bankruptcy , not keeping yields up or market share. They are all in survival mode, they have major cash flow issues with high expenses and refunds being alot more than new sales.

Most airlines have come to the conclusion that with no business travel for a while, it's gonna be tough for a while even if some leisure traffic is ready to jump back in planes for domestic or shorter flights. Business traffic is so essential for so many AC routes alot can't even be considered until it returns.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

Sat May 16, 2020 6:33 pm

Something to keep in mind regarding the rebound - IMO the USA is going to run a deficit approaching 6 - 8 Trillion dollars this year (We are already at 4 and counting). If there is a change in administration this Fall, expect individual and especially corporate taxes to go up. A lot. And on both the Federal and State level. Second - outside of Tech and Food companies, every other industry is adding debt like crazy to keep the lights on. Even at low interest rates, that needs to be paid back. These two factors will dampen Corporate travel for a long time.
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    Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

    Sat May 16, 2020 8:41 pm

    I don't know how their CA is worded, but if its like the one where I work, if you take a leave of absence vs a lay off, you are still "employed" by the company for that term, your seniority stays the same but you are free to work elsewhere if choose to. If there is a recall during the time of your leave of absence, you do not get called back but after your leave of absence is over, you can come back to work and bumping rights come into effect.
    Last edited by ACDC8 on Sat May 16, 2020 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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    longhauler
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    Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

    Sat May 16, 2020 8:44 pm

    ACDC8 wrote:
    I don't know how their CA is worded, but if its like the one where I work, if you take a leave of absence vs a lay off, you are still "employed" by the company for that term, your seniority stays the same but you are free to work elsewhere if choose to. If there is a recall during the time of your leave of absence, you do not get called back but after your leave of absence is over, you have the right to come back and bumping rights come into effect.

    That is basically how it works.

    One can also “negotiate” extras like benefits, pass travel, pension payments, etc.
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    Midwestindy
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    Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

    Sat May 16, 2020 9:00 pm

    Revelation wrote:
    Triple7Lr wrote:
    jfklganyc wrote:
    No I dont think so.

    TSA numbers are really starting to climb.

    I would expect 20 to 30% to go on September 30 but nowhere near 60.

    Define really starting to climb? While passengers numbers are trending in the right direction the TSA numbers still reflect travel is down over 90% year over year.

    Actually I just did the math in another thread and TSA numbers show pax count is down 92% YOY.

    TSA daily figures are definitely climbing, but they are climbing from a small base and have a long way to go.

    OTOH I don't think we'll see the 60% cuts in US that we are seeing in CA.

    I hope the recovery trend continues to pick up steam and we avoid any 2nd wave.

    Yet most sources I've read say we're going to be lucky to be back to 25% of last year's demand by the fall season, 50% by next summer, etc.


    50% by next summer? Which source said that? Not necessarily denying it, but that is assuming an incredibly low growth rate in US travel.
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    ACDC8
    Posts: 7874
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    Re: Air Canada to layoff 20K workers effective 7 June '20

    Sat May 16, 2020 9:21 pm

    longhauler wrote:
    ACDC8 wrote:
    I don't know how their CA is worded, but if its like the one where I work, if you take a leave of absence vs a lay off, you are still "employed" by the company for that term, your seniority stays the same but you are free to work elsewhere if choose to. If there is a recall during the time of your leave of absence, you do not get called back but after your leave of absence is over, you have the right to come back and bumping rights come into effect.

    That is basically how it works.

    One can also “negotiate” extras like benefits, pass travel, pension payments, etc.

    On top of that, I'm assuming that the 2 year LoA offer is a longer term than a normal LoA clause in the CA?
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