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AirwayBill
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:37 am

Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 6:26 am

The 777 is very probably the noisiest widebody passenger jet still being manufactured into the 21st century, even the DC-10 felt quiet in comparison. And noise levels are not up to the airline, that’s a hard fact.

As for cabin configurations, indeed it’s not the manufacturer’s choice, but the overwhelming trend of airlines going 10ab simply redefines the whole 777 concept for the passenger as just being a basic, uncomfortable, noisy jet.

Time to get over the sacred-cow myth, fact is (except for anet) that beast is nothing special at all really.
 
peterjohns
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:49 am

Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 7:57 am

I remember the first time it came to FRA with United. After it parked they put a huge red Bow around the fuselage. There it sat like a huge present!
I should have taken a picture of it- but in those days one didn´t have a camera with at all times.
 
Strato2
Posts: 558
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 8:01 am

Iluvtofly wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Strato2 wrote:
Horrible plane. Has made Boeing lot of money and tortured passengers around the world. Noisy and cramped.



Always one complainer:) The "cramped" issue if because of the operator, not Boeing.


How true is that .... any aircraft type can be cramped ..... nothing to do with the manufacturer !!!! The airline operating the aircraft determines the * crampiness* .... gets your facts straight before making such a ridiculous comment.


Boeing has chosen the width of the plane as such that it has enabled these horrible seating arrangements. It has everything to do with Boeing.
 
speedbird52
Posts: 1022
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 8:35 am

Technological marvel but perhaps the father of an entire generation of "boring aircraft". It's a tube with two engines and wings.
 
889091
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:56 pm

Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 9:06 am

 
AMS18C36C
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 9:44 am

I've only flown the 777 once, last Summer on a KL 77W. While the 10-abreast was slightly too tight, I do remember it being a smooth ride and the plane wasn't all too loud. The pilot flying executed the smoothest landing I've ever had on a plane. :D

Antarius wrote:
The 777 truly was a game changer. It killed off the trijets (MD11, DC10, L1011), killed off the quads (747 and rendered the a380 largely stillborn) and is still the backbone of many airlines longhaul fleet.


Don' forget the many new route sit opened up. I remember a Wendover Productions video on YouTube about CO's EWR-HKG route, which used to be the longest route in the world if I'm not mistaken.
 
9Patch
Posts: 585
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 10:00 am

Antarius wrote:
The 777 truly was a game changer. It killed off the trijets (MD11, DC10, L1011), killed off the quads (747 and rendered the a380 largely stillborn) and is still the backbone of many airlines longhaul fleet.

Don't forget to include the A340 in that list of quads.
 
VV
Posts: 1874
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 10:20 am

From Boeing's orders and deliveries page:
777 Model Summary Through April 2020

Model Series   Orders  Deliveries  Unfilled   
777-300ER       838       820          18   
777-200          88        88           -     
777-300          60        60           -     
777-200ER       422       422           -   
777X            309         -         309   
777-200LR        61        60           1   
777F            231       184          47    

777 Total     2,009     1,634         375
Last edited by VV on Sun May 17, 2020 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
midway7
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:24 pm

Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 10:28 am

Was at ORD for the first revenue arrival. Flight 910 (I believe) from DEN. June 1995. Landed then Runway 27R and parked on Gate B17. Continued to IAD. Lots of media at the gate. Fun day to be at the airport! While UA was commited at the time, I do not believe the future of the plane was that certain at the time.
 
PANAMsterdam
Posts: 275
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 10:55 am

It's a beautiful aircraft and I always forget how massive it is. I flew with EK this January and 3 of my 4 flights were with the 77W, i'm a 6'5" tall guy but i felt like an ant when i stood next to her.
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 12:16 pm

Does anyone know if CZ, EK, and AF had 3-4-3 in the 90s when the 777 was first introduced? What is interesting is that CZ, went with 3-3-3 on its 773s.
 
JeremyB
Posts: 179
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 12:20 pm

Lusitanian wrote:
My first flight (2005) on a 777 is still vivid in my memory.

I was lucky enough to win a competition to Vietnam from Australia flying Malaysian.

Chose it instead of 747 because I'd hadn't been in one yet even though the arrival was an ungodly 4am . (Thrilled to get the Hibiscus on the return).

Always wondered if the airframe ended up being MH17 or MH370.


The heliconia livery was worn by 9M-MRD, and that ended up being MH17. I saw her on her last climb-out from AMS.

I flew on both MRO and MRD and a bunch of other 777's and still think it's an incredible plane. Some people dislike it as it is loud, but I actually like it. In the A380 of Emirates, I could hear people some 20 rows behind me talking about what they were going to do on their vacation, in the 777 you don't have this problem. It's also the only plane beside the MD-11 where I could actually get some sleep in.
 
TheEuphorian
Posts: 438
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 1:49 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Does anyone know if CZ, EK, and AF had 3-4-3 in the 90s when the 777 was first introduced? What is interesting is that CZ, went with 3-3-3 on its 773s.

On that topic, TG initially had 3-4-3 in Y and 2-4-2 in J on its 772A fleet when they introduced it in 1996, but it was changed to 3-3-3 in Y and 2-2-2 in J during the mid-2000s due to lots of complaints by both passengers and staff.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 2:24 pm

AirwayBill wrote:
The 777 is very probably the noisiest widebody passenger jet still being manufactured into the 21st century, even the DC-10 felt quiet in comparison. And noise levels are not up to the airline, that’s a hard fact.


Care to point to a couple of peer-reviewed studies affirming that for in-cabin noise? I've got plenty of miles in both DC-10s and 777s and think you have succumbed to hyperbole.
 
BravoOne
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 2:26 pm

Strato2 wrote:
Iluvtofly wrote:
BravoOne wrote:


Always one complainer:) The "cramped" issue if because of the operator, not Boeing.


How true is that .... any aircraft type can be cramped ..... nothing to do with the manufacturer !!!! The airline operating the aircraft determines the * crampiness* .... gets your facts straight before making such a ridiculous comment.


Boeing has chosen the width of the plane as such that it has enabled these horrible seating arrangements. It has everything to do with Boeing.


You are wrong, but I doubt that you could be convinced.
 
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Nomadd
Posts: 409
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 3:03 pm

Always one of my favorites. Avoiding the ones with 2 inches of legroom isn't that hard.
Too bad half the posts on the thread are from feeding one troll.
 
Chemist
Posts: 762
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 4:23 pm

Let's also talk about its sterling safety record. For the first decade, no accidents. Ignoring a few odd incidents (Missile shoot down, mysterious disappearance from likely suicidal pilot, crash landing from incompetent crew), I believe the only accident that could even be partially blamed on the aircraft was the short landing of BA 777 at LHR due to engine icing.

In the Asiana accident, the entire airframe rotated at least 180 degrees and slammed down, yet remained intact during that portion of the accident, saving almost everybody's lives except for a few pax who were not belted.
 
Confuscius
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 4:45 pm

I find engine noise to be reassuring.
Ain't I a stinker?
 
IAHWorldflyer
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 5:00 pm

I remember seeing my first 777 at SFO one afternoon in April of 1996. It was a UA plane in the battleship grey livery, and it was sitting in between 2 UA 747's. It was a good way for me to judge the size, since until then, the biggest twin jet was the 763.
No noise makes me happier than the guttural engine start up on the GE90's that the 77W wears! It's just phenomenal when the bass noise shakes the whole cabin.
 
mmahpeel
Posts: 79
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 6:09 pm

The 777 is incredibly solid and has an impeccable safety record.

My only complaints - the too-small and too-difficult to close overhead bin design over the center-line seats (this should have changed years ago and unfortunately is still standard on all these new 77Ws); also the droning vibration from the engines that occurs in the cabin adjacent to the forward part of the wing-spar can be unsettling. In the scheme of things these are minor quibbles considering what the 777 has accomplished these past 25 years.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 6:14 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Does anyone know if CZ, EK, and AF had 3-4-3 in the 90s when the 777 was first introduced? What is interesting is that CZ, went with 3-3-3 on its 773s.

AF was 3-3-3 on the 777s until around 2011-2012 when they went to 3-4-3. I am sure about that since I flew on a AF 777 in May 2010 and it was 3-3-3.
I believe EK was also 3-3-3 and they were probably the first airline to start converting the 777s to 3-4-3.
 
Cointrin330
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Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 6:15 pm

Strato2 wrote:
Horrible plane. Has made Boeing lot of money and tortured passengers around the world. Noisy and cramped.


Get over yourself. The 777 was a game changer in terms of cabin architecture and design. The 10 across seating is a relatively (last 3-5 years) new phenomenon, implemented by the airlines, not Boeing.
 
ltbewr
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 6:18 pm

I suspect the 777 will be flying pax and freight well into the mid-21st Century. It seems to have been designed correctly from the start, allowing larger and longer range versions, pax versions great for carrying a lot of time sensitive belly freight, popular with many flyers, a successor to the 747 for most ops both pax and most freight.

Now there are some issues with the developing X version as to it's wing structures, but that is something that can be corrected. Hopefully Boeing won't make the same mistakes they did with the 737MAX and to go too far. Sadly some 777's have seen the scrapyard, mainly due to poor mx, a few from tragic events or poor operators and more early ones likely to go from the Pandemic. But it has become a leading long range, TATL and Trans Pac aircraft and a real success for Boeing.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 934
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 7:01 pm

I was scheduled to fly on N777UA SFO-OGG before the 'rona hit and cancelled out plans. I was really looking forward to flying on this classic bird. I missed flying on Peter Max by a hair back in the day, so a trip on this T7 was high on my list. Someday perhaps, if the current shakeup in the industry doesn't result in her retirement in the near term.

As for noise, I've never found the 777 to all that much louder than other types. Try sitting in the back of a 727. Now, that's noisy!
 
The777Man
Posts: 6125
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 7:58 pm

Amazing how time flies! My favorite aircraft of all time. I first saw a United 777 doing an ETOPS test flight at LAX 1Apr95 before delivery and my first visit to Seattle was the day before delivery. My first flight on a 777 was on 7Sep95 and many more since. Very much looking forward to flying on the 777-9 and hopefully later on the 777-8. I have flown on all airlines 777s with direct delivery from Boeing so no second or third hand operators and these flights have taken me all over the world.

2009 orders as of April 2020 is amazing, beyond my imagination in 1995.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
The777Man
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 8:04 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Does anyone know if CZ, EK, and AF had 3-4-3 in the 90s when the 777 was first introduced? What is interesting is that CZ, went with 3-3-3 on its 773s.



CZ and EK both had 3-4-3 on their 777s from the beginning.

Air France and many others changed to 3-4-3 much later.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
Lootess
Posts: 499
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 9:06 pm

slinky09 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
The 777-300ER became the new 744, some of my best flights have been on this airplane. JAL and Cathay Pacific have excellent First Class cabins on them. The herringbone Business Class cabins many airlines have on their 777 are luxurious. This airplane is the pinnacle of today's airplanes, the A380 is now a dinosaur. long may the 777-9 fly.



While the 777 is an excellent plane in many regards and congratulation to Boeing and United for the anniversary, it's his not the nicest plane to be a passenger on, the noise comes first on the list even in the front. Whereas as a passenger, the A380 is far far better.


More like A350 is superior to 777 in passenger comfort, same class wide body.

Air just like the 787, your body will feel better waking up in business class on the other continent.
 
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SilverwingSpttr
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 9:13 pm

I've flown on the 777 three times, but all three were great flights.

April 1998. UA 772 LAX-IAD. I marveled at the sound of those PW4084s and how we seemed to "sprint" down runway 25R on takeoff.
April 2002. AA 772 LAX-MIA. 2-5-2 interior and those lovely Trent 800s. Nice smooth flight with 2 TVs to myself with no one in the middle-middle seat.
January 2009. BA 772 LHR-JFK. I was originally seated in the very last row of an early-build GE90-powered 772 that was beginning to show her years. I made friends with a cabin crew member who eventually upgraded me to a rear-facing Club World seat for the duration of the flight. Landing facing backwards was unforgettable.
_____
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A306, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A346, A388, B712, B732, B733, B734, B73G, B738, B739, B744, B752, B753, B762, B763, B764, B772, B77L, B788, C172, C208, DC-3, DC-10, MD-11, MD-81, MD-82
 
blooc350
Posts: 173
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 9:24 pm

As Singapore Airlines retires their last 4 777-200ER fleet this year. What was once the workhorse of SIA fleet, is not nothing more than history. So sad :-(

https://simpleflying.com/singapore-airlines-777-200er-retirements/
 
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bombayduck
Posts: 257
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 10:31 pm

Saw my first B777 at Miami Airport early April 1995. Came in from Boeing testing field N773UA was the bird.
 
brilondon
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 10:32 pm

Strato2 wrote:
Horrible plane. Has made Boeing lot of money and tortured passengers around the world. Noisy and cramped.


You know that your experience is airline specific. I have had nothing great flights on the 777. From my first flight on a Delta 777 to my last flight on a United 777. Awsome experience.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
Antarius
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 10:52 pm

9Patch wrote:
Antarius wrote:
The 777 truly was a game changer. It killed off the trijets (MD11, DC10, L1011), killed off the quads (747 and rendered the a380 largely stillborn) and is still the backbone of many airlines longhaul fleet.

Don't forget to include the A340 in that list of quads.


Good point. Forgot about the a340.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
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ER757
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Sun May 17, 2020 11:42 pm

I was fortunate enough to get a tour of one of UA's first 777's shortly before it entered service. UA flew one down to SEA from PAE for the employees to see and my UA cargo sales guy got me an invitation. Was able to walk around and underneath, full interior tour, even got to sit in the captain's seat. Was the first time I saw a "glass cockpit" - they had all the screens on and I thought it was pretty cool. My most lasting memory was the being impressed with the size of the massive engines - much larger than anything else of the day. I have a photo laying around somewhere with me leaning against the starboard one.
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 430
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Mon May 18, 2020 12:15 am

mmahpeel wrote:
The 777 is incredibly solid and has an impeccable safety record.

My only complaints - the too-small and too-difficult to close overhead bin design over the center-line seats (this should have changed years ago and unfortunately is still standard on all these new 77Ws); also the droning vibration from the engines that occurs in the cabin adjacent to the forward part of the wing-spar can be unsettling. In the scheme of things these are minor quibbles considering what the 777 has accomplished these past 25 years.


I don’t know if this only occurs on the PW birds, but on startup and at certain idle throttle settings on taxi, the reverberation just forward of the wing is crazy. Luckily it doesn’t happen at TO or cruise thrust settings. What a great aircraft though!
 
889091
Posts: 211
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Mon May 18, 2020 1:11 am

Had many flights on MH back when they had 2-5-2 seating - 36" seat pitch and 18" width.

A trip down memory lane:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8LdkkQn5x0

A little pub quiz trivia - the pilot appearing at 4:30 in the video is the current CEO of MH.

CX broke the record flying the opposite direction with the 77W.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Mon May 18, 2020 1:31 am

I still remember watching the broadcast of the first flight on KOMO 4 and seeing the prototype and early frames for UA, BA and CX coming back to BFI during testing. Definitely got some odd looks from the other kids at recess for craning my head skywards back then!
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Mon May 18, 2020 2:19 am

Unfortunately, I believe the 3-4-3 seating was inspired by the 787 3-3-3 seating. They felt the 777 has a wider cabin width, and therefore can justify the extra seat. If the 787 had 8 abreast seating, I don't think 10 abreast would be that prominent in at 777.
 
CaliAtenza
Posts: 1686
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Mon May 18, 2020 4:43 am

My first 777 flight was in 2007 or 2008; first flight on Emirates as well. I was flying BLR-DXB-LAX. I think I flew on a A330 to DXB then I got on the 777-200LR. What a magnificent airplane :). I loved the engine start-up roar as well; it sounded like a muscle car revving up!
 
TaniTaniwha
Posts: 56
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Mon May 18, 2020 5:13 am

Singapore 777-200ER SIN-PVG return, Air New Zealand 777-300ER and 777-200ER SYD-AKL return multiple times, the latest quite recently, Swiss ZRH-SIN just a few months ago, all terrific flights and no complaints about anything, which I assure you, is not the norm. Great aircraft and a type I always feel safe in. I do admit, the Airlines here were part of the satisfaction which are in my experience, all great airlines, although not all their other types have been as good.
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n2dru
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Mon May 18, 2020 5:35 am

I remember flying the 777 from ATLMCO in the early 2000s on DL. Great ride on such a short flight. Full flights going and returning..hard to non rev. First time in BusinessElite on a 777..hadn't explored the plane enough before we were descending into MCO.
 
UAL777UK
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Mon May 18, 2020 7:24 am

dcajet wrote:
On May 15, 1995, a United Airlines Boeing 777-222A, N777UA, flew the first commercial service for the type, with a flight between London Heathrow and Washington Dulles. One of Boeing's best sellers and finest designs, still going strong.



Not only have I flown N777UA, I was fortunate to fly the 77 with UA when she first started into IAD and one of my my main memories after the flight getting on to the transit was the absolute huge size of the engines. Mind blowing.

Love the 777 to this day, a game changer, simple as.
 
Mi26
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Mon May 18, 2020 8:12 am

As someone who flies 6-8 times a year between Entebbe and Australia, I avoid the 777 wherever possible. Love the Airbus 350. If I have to spend 14 hours plus in economy then it will not be a 777. I sure that I am not alone. The decision to go 10 across may have well been an operator action, but the General Public sees it as the Manufacturers fault.
I know that a vast number of Pax in Australia will ask for an A380 or A350 instead of a 777.
 
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afterburner33
Posts: 195
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Mon May 18, 2020 8:53 am

Mi26 wrote:
As someone who flies 6-8 times a year between Entebbe and Australia, I avoid the 777 wherever possible. Love the Airbus 350. If I have to spend 14 hours plus in economy then it will not be a 777. I sure that I am not alone. The decision to go 10 across may have well been an operator action, but the General Public sees it as the Manufacturers fault.
I know that a vast number of Pax in Australia will ask for an A380 or A350 instead of a 777.


I am similar - on all my long haul flights over the past 10 years, I have managed to avoid the 777 wherever possible. IMO it's just too noisy, and with 10 abreast, too uncomfortable as well. Luckily I have usually had the option of the A380 instead, which (also IMO) is a far superior choice in terms of comfort. I will miss it when it has gone.

As an aviation fan, I understand why the 777 has been a huge success, and appreciate what it has achieved. However as a passenger, I will usually try to fly on something else.
 
77H
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Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Mon May 18, 2020 10:24 am

AirwayBill wrote:
The 777 is very probably the noisiest widebody passenger jet still being manufactured into the 21st century, even the DC-10 felt quiet in comparison. And noise levels are not up to the airline, that’s a hard fact.

As for cabin configurations, indeed it’s not the manufacturer’s choice, but the overwhelming trend of airlines going 10ab simply redefines the whole 777 concept for the passenger as just being a basic, uncomfortable, noisy jet.

Time to get over the sacred-cow myth, fact is (except for anet) that beast is nothing special at all really.


Do you have any factual evidence to back up your claim that the 777 is "probably the noisiest widebody"? Such as decibel meter readings on different aircraft types in various places throughout the cabin?
I have flown more segments and have more air-time on the 777 than any other aircraft type (387 total segments for 607,337 mi) in the past 5 years. The is far from the first aircraft type to come to mind in the noisiest category.

What aspects about the 777 contribute to the noise level in your mind? Engine noise, cabin equipment for instance? I will say that I find the overhead bins on the 777 do tend to creak more on take off, touchdown and rollout as well as during turbulence more than other types. But those events make up such a small portion of total flight time.

As for 9 ab vs 10 ab, I have been on both, and while 9 ab is obviously more comfortable, I have probably flown more segments on 10 ab configs and its really not as dreadful as so many make it out to be. I'm 5'11" and 170ish lbs. Even then, the only 9 ab config I liked was the 2/5/2 setup which relatively few airlines had. Though as a dire hard window seat fan I find seat config largely inconsequential anyways. 9 vs 10 ab may be more apparent in the aisle seat though due to the narrower aisles.

As for the aircraft being, as you put it "basic, uncomfortable noisy jet" that is "nothing special at all really".
I'd argue that the 777, while not the first WB twin, pushed the boundaries of what a WB twin could do for more than a decade and paved the way for the current generation of WB twins.

Luckily, the airlines of the world have weighed in on merits of the 777. I hardly doubt it would be the best selling family of WB aircraft in the history of commercial aviation if it was as bad as you assert. Moreover, in 2019, 2 of the 10 longest commercial flights were still being operated by 777 variants, including one of the most challenging, JNB-ATL. Not bad for an aircraft family that was initially developed in the early 90's and had its first flight over a decade prior to the first flight of the 2nd aircraft type on that list, the A380.

Its a shame you're so put off by the type. Must make traveling really difficult for you, especially if you try and avoid them given their popularity with airlines.

77H
 
Mi26
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:43 am

Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Mon May 18, 2020 11:19 am

Just a simple question, when the 777 was released it was the only real game in town, in terms of size, twin-engine, etc. Imagine if the A350 had been released at the same time?
Any thoughts?
 
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garpd
Posts: 2532
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:29 am

Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Mon May 18, 2020 11:34 am

Flown on the 200, 200ER, and 300ER. Lovely planes. I only fly with BA if I can as I know they use 9 abreast on their 777 and that makes it perfectly comfortable for me.
Flown once on an AA bird with 10 abreast (not my choice!!!) and I'll never fly a 10 abreast 777 again, if I can help it. Unless of course I sit further up front ;)

I see some here complaining about the noise levels. Can't say they have ever bothered me. The 777 is quieter than the 747-400 and from my ear has about the same noise level as the A330 and A340 (I forget the specific models I flew). Certainly there is nothing noisier about the 777 from my experience as a simple SLF who sits with ear phones in for most of the flight to enjoy the movies.
If you want silence, pay the extra to go up front (much quieter, I can attest) and enjoy the noise cancelling headsets (or buy your own) or just don't fly, if it bothers you THAT much.

Seems to me like only yesterday when the 777 first flew. Makes me feel old!

Long may the mighty 777 fly.
arpdesign.wordpress.com
 
morrisond
Posts: 2790
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:22 am

Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Mon May 18, 2020 11:50 am

Not to state the obvious but the 777x will be better in almost every measure everyone is whining about above.

It should be quieter as next quieter Generation Engines. (however may be offset by different insulation in the walls)

It will be wider by 4" inside so base seats will be normal 787/737 width (not great but better than 10W 77W)

Windows will be a lot bigger than A350/77W allowing more natural light in and giving great views

Cabin altitude and humidity will be equivalent to 787 - class leading.

All new interior design allowing more storage.

And when the MTOW comes in a lot better than many on here are expecting - it should provide class leading efficiency.

Most of the planes people are complaining about (772's) probably will never see the skies again once this crisis is past.
 
clipperlondon
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:43 pm

Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Mon May 18, 2020 12:43 pm

ua900 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
On May 15, 1995, a United Airlines Boeing 777-222A, N777UA, flew the first commercial service for the type, with a flight between London Heathrow and Washington Dulles. One of Boeing's best sellers and finest designs, still going strong.


Flew that bird at least 50 times since 1997, always stood out because of the reg, even though it looks more like a ghetto bird now compared to the -300ERs with Polaris installed.

jetwet1 wrote:
I got my only case of food poisoning on a CO 777, totally the 777`s fault......

On a flight from LAS To LAX I remember reading an article in the US today about the 777, this would have been in 97 or 98, the article stated that the 777 was a flop and Boeing would never turn a profit on the model as they would have to sell over 500 and the author didn't see that happening.

Here we are in 2020 with 2000 + ordered.


Well, you *did* have a choice of steak or fish, if you took the fish oh well. As for me, I had the lasagna. :D

I think back then with so many 747s, MD-11s, and A340s it wasn't really accepted just yet that a two-engine plane could fly lots of missions beyond TATL. Then again they still had plenty of smoking flights back then as well. ETOPS 180 sounded revolutionary at the time, and look how much we've moved beyond that now.


And they didn't call you Shirley :lol:
 
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MrHMSH
Posts: 2681
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:32 pm

Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Mon May 18, 2020 12:55 pm

Mi26 wrote:
Just a simple question, when the 777 was released it was the only real game in town, in terms of size, twin-engine, etc. Imagine if the A350 had been released at the same time?
Any thoughts?


The A330 was a similar size, but you have to remember that the A330(-300) and A340 were developed in parallel, as a pair they competed fine, even if they lost out in the period that the A343 was produced. The A330 tackled shorter routes and the A340 the longer, whereas airlines that bought the 777 used it for both. While it's popular perception that the A340 failed, the A340-300 got a respectable total, it was the later 77W that truly made the 777 a winner.
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 944
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: 777 - 25 years in commercial service

Mon May 18, 2020 3:04 pm

77H wrote:
AirwayBill wrote:
The 777 is very probably the noisiest widebody passenger jet still being manufactured into the 21st century, even the DC-10 felt quiet in comparison. And noise levels are not up to the airline, that’s a hard fact.

As for cabin configurations, indeed it’s not the manufacturer’s choice, but the overwhelming trend of airlines going 10ab simply redefines the whole 777 concept for the passenger as just being a basic, uncomfortable, noisy jet.

Time to get over the sacred-cow myth, fact is (except for anet) that beast is nothing special at all really.


Do you have any factual evidence to back up your claim that the 777 is "probably the noisiest widebody"? Such as decibel meter readings on different aircraft types in various places throughout the cabin?
I have flown more segments and have more air-time on the 777 than any other aircraft type (387 total segments for 607,337 mi) in the past 5 years. The is far from the first aircraft type to come to mind in the noisiest category.

What aspects about the 777 contribute to the noise level in your mind? Engine noise, cabin equipment for instance? I will say that I find the overhead bins on the 777 do tend to creak more on take off, touchdown and rollout as well as during turbulence more than other types. But those events make up such a small portion of total flight time.

As for 9 ab vs 10 ab, I have been on both, and while 9 ab is obviously more comfortable, I have probably flown more segments on 10 ab configs and its really not as dreadful as so many make it out to be. I'm 5'11" and 170ish lbs. Even then, the only 9 ab config I liked was the 2/5/2 setup which relatively few airlines had. Though as a dire hard window seat fan I find seat config largely inconsequential anyways. 9 vs 10 ab may be more apparent in the aisle seat though due to the narrower aisles.

As for the aircraft being, as you put it "basic, uncomfortable noisy jet" that is "nothing special at all really".
I'd argue that the 777, while not the first WB twin, pushed the boundaries of what a WB twin could do for more than a decade and paved the way for the current generation of WB twins.

Luckily, the airlines of the world have weighed in on merits of the 777. I hardly doubt it would be the best selling family of WB aircraft in the history of commercial aviation if it was as bad as you assert. Moreover, in 2019, 2 of the 10 longest commercial flights were still being operated by 777 variants, including one of the most challenging, JNB-ATL. Not bad for an aircraft family that was initially developed in the early 90's and had its first flight over a decade prior to the first flight of the 2nd aircraft type on that list, the A380.

Its a shame you're so put off by the type. Must make traveling really difficult for you, especially if you try and avoid them given their popularity with airlines.

77H


It's not hard to avoid a cramped configuration if you only search for airbus flights. If you are on a 330, you can almost guarantee it will be 2-4-2. If you are on a 350, it will be 3-3-3. I wish search engines would allow searching by plane type.

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