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wezgulf3
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:52 am

Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 7:23 am

CHRISBA35X wrote:
I think this thread brings two of A-net's most hated things together in one rather unsightly edifice.

What we have seen consistently throughout the history of the A380 and indeed of EK, is people with an axe to grind stating categorically - "they don't have the load factors for that" or "the traffic isn't there" or "the yields aren't high enough to warrant this".

I find it bizarre that a bunch of interested observers on an internet fan site have the front to state they know better than paid professionals who do this stuff for real at the airlines. Its odd how whenever the A380 is involved, everyone is a masters graduate and hot shot airline planner.

Reading this thread you'd be forgiven for thinking the A380 will be dropped by EK completely as a matter of life and death, and that a load of five, three, two even one year old "whalejets" will be rotting in the desert sun, never to fly again by the end of this week. That EK has no chance of operating them post-CV19 let alone operating them profitably.

If you genuinely think air travel wont be robustly back and firming across all metrics by Spring 2021 then I'm not sure what to say to you. There are almost 8 billion people on this planet and air travel has been expanding massively year on year as more and more people fly. Do you honestly believe this will cease - forever? - because of a flu bug we'll have a vaccine for very soon?

Air travel will be back big time. We don't know when, but it will return. It has to. EK were a success story before CV19 and will be a success story after it. The unpalatable truth (for some on here) is that the A380 will be a part of that. It wont be hundreds of them at EK, but they'll certainly have use for a 40 or 50, and the A380 will continue to find useful service for BA, NH, EK, QF and LH and the ACMI specialists.


Awesome post! People seem to forget that the human race of 21st century is pretty selfish and impatient, and as soon as a vaccination is found it will be “COVID who”. The media plays a big part in this hysteria for the future being similar to how it is today. But I’m certain it will bounce back pretty fast because the demand will be there.

Wes...
 
a318
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:56 am

Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 8:43 am

Slightly off topic but EY has started firing hundreds of cabin crew. They are firing those who live outside of company housing (those crew get allowance so EY doesn’t want to pay for that anymore) and those who are from countries that have upcoming repatriation flights.
 
9Patch
Posts: 541
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:38 pm

Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 12:02 pm

CHRISBA35X wrote:
I think this thread brings two of A-net's most hated things together in one rather unsightly edifice.

What we have seen consistently throughout the history of the A380 and indeed of EK, is people with an axe to grind stating categorically - "they don't have the load factors for that" or "the traffic isn't there" or "the yields aren't high enough to warrant this".

I find it bizarre that a bunch of interested observers on an internet fan site have the front to state they know better than paid professionals who do this stuff for real at the airlines. Its odd how whenever the A380 is involved, everyone is a masters graduate and hot shot airline planner.

Reading this thread you'd be forgiven for thinking the A380 will be dropped by EK completely as a matter of life and death, and that a load of five, three, two even one year old "whalejets" will be rotting in the desert sun, never to fly again by the end of this week. That EK has no chance of operating them post-CV19 let alone operating them profitably.

If you genuinely think air travel wont be robustly back and firming across all metrics by Spring 2021 then I'm not sure what to say to you. There are almost 8 billion people on this planet and air travel has been expanding massively year on year as more and more people fly. Do you honestly believe this will cease - forever? - because of a flu bug we'll have a vaccine for very soon?

Air travel will be back big time. We don't know when, but it will return. It has to. EK were a success story before CV19 and will be a success story after it. The unpalatable truth (for some on here) is that the A380 will be a part of that. It wont be hundreds of them at EK, but they'll certainly have use for a 40 or 50, and the A380 will continue to find useful service for BA, NH, EK, QF and LH and the ACMI specialists.


At the risk of derailing this thread, I find it bizarre that you think you know better than paid public health professionals. Covid-19 is NOT the flu. They’re caused by different types of viruses. COVID-19 appears to be more transmissible than the flu. COVID-19 is more deadly. There is no guarantee that we will have a vaccine in "very soon,' promising early results often prove fleeting. I'm not certain that air travel will be 'robustly back,' whatever that means, by Spring 2021.

No one is saying that air travel will cease forever, so please dispense with the straw man arguments.
 
CHRISBA35X
Posts: 200
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:40 am

Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 12:47 pm

9Patch,

Covid-19 is a virus similar to the "flu" which we have learned to live with and will continue to do so. It is probably too widespread now to ever truly eradicate without a vaccination but certainly a vaccination will be developed and distributed before we as a species develop any kind of immunity.

Its something which, for now, we have to live with and manage as best we can. Sorry if you feel that is overly simplistic but that's my view.

To drag this back onto topic, what this means for global airline travel is that measures will be taken to ensure travel comes back before a vaccine comes out. It simply isn't realistic to expect the planet to stop moving around and travelling until CV19 is dealt with. Air travel will be back - measures will be taken. Travel restrictions will be eased in some parts and then spread out. Medical checks before boarding will become a fact of life for travelling and likely will be permanent but they are coming and coming soon. If it means having a test and showing negative before being allowed to board - for everyone - then that is what will happen. The way aircraft are cleaned and turned round between flights will be massively changed. On a macro scale, measures will be taken at Government levels to ensure resources and procedures are in place to stop this from happening again. We will have to fundamentally change the way we fly, that is clear. It will add time and expense to the process and I think most of us are far-sighted enough to agree that this is a good thing. But if you think the airlines, nothing less than the global movement of our entire species on this planet, will sit idle and stored until a vaccine sorts things out, then I feel you are wrong.

It will take a few years before air travel is back to pre-CV19 traffic levels but I feel it is clear (to me, apparently) that flights will come back soon and when they do, the rebound will be about as strong as any reasonable person would expect from a planet of almost 8 billion people on a planet covered 70% in water, about 24,000 miles around who depend on global travel as a basis human need now. Its commerce, its trading, its transportation of fresh produce, mail, people etc. We cant stop that indefinitely.

Emirates are very well positioned to take advantage of this rebound. As I say the curve will take several years to hit pre-2020 levels but it will get there. There are simply too many people on this planet for it not to. Once robust measures are agreed on and implemented (and this will happening as we speak) then consumer confidence in the industry will come back - robustly.

You probably don't agree with my assertion that it will come back robustly, say 70% of what it was, by Spring 2021 but who really knows? Where will it be come end of March 2021? 30%? 40% 60? 80? Nobody knows.

What I do know is air travel will be back operating (very differently but operating nonetheless) by then. The global economy, indeed our very way of life as a species depends on that being one of the first things to relax.

I am writing this sat in my office in Rotterdam with 20+ of my workmates sat around, all 1.5m away and all washing their hands and with a couple wearing masks. It is the first day we've been back in the office since this all happened and everyone is delighted to see everyone. The lockdown is easing across Europe and Asia and will ease in time in the US and Australasia too. Its happening. Air travel will not be far behind.

Emirates will be back too. Whether you like them or loathe them, I'd have thought the sight of their huge planes back in service flying pax around would be something to celebrate, no?

I would hope when that day comes and the EK A380s and 777s are back in great number would be a very telling milestone in humanity beating the virus and returning to normality, because of who they are and the role they play in transporting people around the world.
 
Strato2
Posts: 543
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 1:15 pm

If these numbers are in anyway correct it is a doomday scenario for the 777X. EK will not replace their A380's with brand new planes for billions of dollars if their business contracts. They will keep whatever amount of A380's and 777-300ER's they need and that's it. The only replacement will be the smaller A350's and A330's.
 
Opus99
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Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 1:36 pm

Strato2 wrote:
If these numbers are in anyway correct it is a doomday scenario for the 777X. EK will not replace their A380's with brand new planes for billions of dollars if their business contracts. They will keep whatever amount of A380's and 777-300ER's they need and that's it. The only replacement will be the smaller A350's and A330's.

So when demand returns and the 777s are ageing and the 380 has been subsequently been reduced what will they turn to? I don’t understand why the 380s demise is positively correlated to the 777X demise? They are not the same at all. Emirates is eager to take on their 777X in my opinion, especially if it delivers on its performance. I believe the A350-1000 and the 777X have a fantastic service life ahead of them. Let us not forget oil prices will still come back up and no one wants to be on the wrong side of that. Emirates has that capacity and the 777X will be fantastic to replace BOTH the 380 and 77Ws on high capacity routes. The 789 and 350 can also replace the 77Ws on routes that don’t really need the capacity of the 77W
 
CHRISBA35X
Posts: 200
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:40 am

Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 1:42 pm

Strato2 wrote:
If these numbers are in anyway correct it is a doomday scenario for the 777X. EK will not replace their A380's with brand new planes for billions of dollars if their business contracts. They will keep whatever amount of A380's and 777-300ER's they need and that's it. The only replacement will be the smaller A350's and A330's.


Ironically it may be the 77W that really comes through for them - they don't necessarily need the newer planes as their two class 77Ws are about as good as it gets efficiency wise. If there's money to be made then the 300ER is the one to make it for them. I see the A380 as something super premium to put in where multiple 77W rotations exist.

What a lot of people don't really grasp about the A380 for EK is that its appeal stems in large amount from the vastly superior C and F product it had compared to the 777 etc product until recently. The old biz on the 777 was rubbish, not a patch on the very smart product you get on the A380.

Now EK is rolling out the new C and new F on the 777s "the A380 difference" is very much diminished.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 1:42 pm

We live with influenza fairly comfortably, vaccines reduce its spread, limit or reduce its severity, high tech medical intervention can usually see a person through it, and it seldom has serious lasting side effects. Other than that CORVID-19 is like ...
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
birdbrainz
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 2:28 pm

Is there any possibility of cutting a freight door only into the main deck of an A380 using it all for freight, and using only the A380 upper deck for passengers?

I really doubt it, as the freighter market is going to have tons of planes to choose from, but wanted to at least allow for the possibility. Also, wasn't the freighter market almost dead a year ago with a glut of over-capacity?
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
 
marcelh
Posts: 1011
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 2:57 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Strato2 wrote:
Emirates has that capacity and the 777X will be fantastic to replace BOTH the 380 and 77Ws on high capacity routes.


I beg to differ. The 779 is just slightly bigger than the 77W and will have a huge drop in capacity, compared to the A380. Nowadays, two 77W have about the same capacity in First and Business, but almost 1,5 the capacity in Economy. So on high capacity routes with no slot restrictions, the "perfect" A380 replacement will be something that is slightly smaller than a 77W, and has about the same ratio between First, Business and Economy.
 
Antarius
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 3:01 pm

marcelh wrote:
Antarius wrote:
marcelh wrote:
A boom year? All indications were already heading to a softening of the market and especially the WB sales were slowing down. And with an Expo 2020 in their backyard, those access capacity would have been useful.


Traffic wise. Orders were slowing due to over ordering in the past. airlines were seeing record profits and load factors.

EK's load factor was a function of itself, as it diverged from the rest of the market. And if you think flying around needlessly large planes for Expo.. well, that's the kind of whipping it out mentality that got EK into this mess.

What “needlessly large planes for Expo?” Pre-COViD19, they were expecting more than 10 million foreign visitors in a period of 6 months.

Your “79 percent load factor” doesn’t make clear which type contributes the most to this number.


To have a 79% load factor an extremely good loads on the a380, EK would have to be flying half empty (or more) 777s. Which do you think it more likely? They have full a380s and empty 777s or 79% load factor fleet wide due to overall overcapacity? Occam's razor says the latter.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
Opus99
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 3:05 pm

marcelh wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Strato2 wrote:
Emirates has that capacity and the 777X will be fantastic to replace BOTH the 380 and 77Ws on high capacity routes.


I beg to differ. The 779 is just slightly bigger than the 77W and will have a huge drop in capacity, compared to the A380. Nowadays, two 77W have about the same capacity in First and Business, but almost 1,5 the capacity in Economy. So on high capacity routes with no slot restrictions, the "perfect" A380 replacement will be something that is slightly smaller than a 77W, and has about the same ratio between First, Business and Economy.

Good point. In terms of post covid planning the next best thing to the 380 is the 779 I mean it’s not that much bigger than the 77W but it will operate much more efficiently. But the thing about high capacity premium routes...aren’t they usually slot restricted?
 
Antarius
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 3:07 pm

CHRISBA35X wrote:
What a lot of people don't really grasp about the A380 for EK is that its appeal stems in large amount from the vastly superior C and F product it had compared to the 777 etc product until recently. The old biz on the 777 was rubbish, not a patch on the very smart product you get on the A380.


IMO, the appeal is marketing. People see the ads, see the a380 and asusme that EK is the epitome of luxury.

Yes their F is nice, but their J is okay on the a380 and downright awful on the 777. Lots of smoke and mirrors.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
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Revelation
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 3:33 pm

marcelh wrote:
Flown a couple of times the A380 on different routes and they were always packed. They don’t need 100+ (maybe with an Expo 2020), but in a non-Corona world they could fill up 80 without a problem.

70% load factor suggests they aren't "always packed".

CHRISBA35X wrote:
It wont be hundreds of them at EK, but they'll certainly have use for a 40 or 50, and the A380 will continue to find useful service for BA, NH, EK, QF and LH and the ACMI specialists.

You are entitled to your optimistic opinion about world air travel recovery. It's interesting that after all the sturm und drang that you come to a conclusion that suggests our thread title is too conservative and we should be looking for 55-65% cut in the EK A380 fleet instead of 40%.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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DrPaul
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 4:19 pm

birdbrainz wrote:
Is there any possibility of cutting a freight door only into the main deck of an A380 using it all for freight, and using only the A380 upper deck for passengers? I really doubt it, as the freighter market is going to have tons of planes to choose from, but wanted to at least allow for the possibility. Also, wasn't the freighter market almost dead a year ago with a glut of over-capacity?


Also would not the lower passenger deck need reinforcing before it could be used for freight? And would existing airport equipment allow for freight to be unloaded at the same time as the passengers in the top deck? Otherwise, turnaround times would be rather longer.

I imagine that with the revival of passenger travel likely to be fairly slow, there will be plenty of redundant 747s and 777s that would be much easier to convert should the demand for air-freight increase.

I'm afraid that the Whale is going to be another victim of the current virus.
 
Antarius
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Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 4:26 pm

DrPaul wrote:
I'm afraid that the Whale is going to be another victim of the current virus.


The virus is just accelerating it's demise. The a380 was already on its way out long before.

Impressive engineering at the wrong time. IMO, hopes for Hajj charters, flying hospitals, demand recovery, slot restrictions and cargo are just wishful thinking flying in the face of reality.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
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seahawk
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 4:48 pm

At least at EK one can put all the blame on the airline, not the plane. That at some time they planed for the 777W to be their smallest plane, says enough.
 
Sokes
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 5:36 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
Not good. It will be interesting how it handles its leased planes. Their oldest ones are near the end of their leases.

In case Emirates intends to buy these frames, should they say "We love this aircraft."?

Image
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A3 ... deliveries

How many times did 11 year old frames get retired before the last new ones were delivered?
A380s may have to be parked for three years in the desert. That doesn't make them scrap.

I met somebody from Czech Republic in holiday. He told me it's his first holiday in 4 years. I was not surprised. It takes one or two generations to build wealth. Once there are enough flats and houses built spending preferences shift. Imagine Chinese property prices go into a slow descend. What should rich Chinese do with their money?

a318 wrote:
Slightly off topic but EY has started firing hundreds of cabin crew. They are firing those who live outside of company housing (those crew get allowance so EY doesn’t want to pay for that anymore) and those who are from countries that have upcoming repatriation flights.

You have a source for that?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
9Patch
Posts: 541
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 5:49 pm

CHRISBA35X wrote:

Covid-19 is a virus similar to the "flu" which we have learned to live with and will continue to do so. It is probably too widespread now to ever truly eradicate without a vaccination but certainly a vaccination will be developed and distributed before we as a species develop any kind of immunity.

Its something which, for now, we have to live with and manage as best we can. Sorry if you feel that is overly simplistic but that's my view.

In your earlier post you said it was a flu bug and we would have a vaccine very soon. Now you've backtracked to say it's 'similar to the flu,' but you're still wrong. Some of the early symptoms look similar, but that's about it.

It attacks the heart, weakening its muscles and disrupting its critical rhythm. It savages kidneys so badly some hospitals have run short of dialysis equipment. It crawls along the nervous system, destroying taste and smell and occasionally reaching the brain. It creates blood clots that can kill with sudden efficiency and inflames blood vessels throughout the body.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... -symptoms/


But if you think the airlines, nothing less than the global movement of our entire species on this planet, will sit idle and stored until a vaccine sorts things out, then I feel you are wrong.

More straw man arguments. I never said that.

It will take a few years before air travel is back to pre-CV19 traffic levels but I feel it is clear (to me, apparently) that flights will come back soon and when they do, the rebound will be about as strong as any reasonable person would expect from a planet of almost 8 billion people on a planet covered 70% in water, about 24,000 miles around who depend on global travel as a basis human need now. Its commerce, its trading, its transportation of fresh produce, mail, people etc. We cant stop that indefinitely.

Trading, transportation of fresh produce, and mail can continue with cargo flights.

Emirates are very well positioned to take advantage of this rebound. As I say the curve will take several years to hit pre-2020 levels but it will get there. There are simply too many people on this planet for it not to. Once robust measures are agreed on and implemented (and this will happening as we speak) then consumer confidence in the industry will come back - robustly.

You probably don't agree with my assertion that it will come back robustly, say 70% of what it was, by Spring 2021 but who really knows? Where will it be come end of March 2021? 30%? 40% 60? 80? Nobody knows.

No. I don't. I'll bet you a beer that passenger traffic will not come to 70% of what it was, by Spring 2021. You can concede via Zoom.

What I do know is air travel will be back operating (very differently but operating nonetheless) by then. The global economy, indeed our very way of life as a species depends on that being one of the first things to relax.

Somehow the species managed to survive before there was air travel.

I am writing this sat in my office in Rotterdam with 20+ of my workmates sat around, all 1.5m away and all washing their hands and with a couple wearing masks. It is the first day we've been back in the office since this all happened and everyone is delighted to see everyone. The lockdown is easing across Europe and Asia and will ease in time in the US and Australasia too. Its happening. Air travel will not be far behind.

Emirates will be back too. Whether you like them or loathe them, I'd have thought the sight of their huge planes back in service flying pax around would be something to celebrate, no?

Getting back to normal will of course be something to celebrate, not only for Emirates, but the entire world.
 
Vladex
Posts: 468
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 5:54 pm

There is lots of funny A380 derangement syndrome thread as in almost any other A380 thread. As usual there is no non contradictory arguments. I mean if you are trying to kill it if it's already dead, then who are you fooling and who are you trying to convince ?
 
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Revelation
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 6:04 pm

Vladex wrote:
There is lots of funny A380 derangement syndrome thread as in almost any other A380 thread.

I appreciate your honest but unexpected characterization of your own posts.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8288
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 6:11 pm

Vladex wrote:
There is lots of funny A380 derangement syndrome thread as in almost any other A380 thread. As usual there is no non contradictory arguments. I mean if you are trying to kill it if it's already dead, then who are you fooling and who are you trying to convince ?


Flip side of the argument is why try to sell a dead horse.

The fundamental issue with EK is overcapacity, doesn't matter which frame. It could be A380, 77W, 77X, A350,787 or A320. Other airlines like Indigo which tried to choke competition by dumping capacity will face the same issues.
All posts are just opinions.
 
Vladex
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 6:37 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Vladex wrote:
There is lots of funny A380 derangement syndrome thread as in almost any other A380 thread. As usual there is no non contradictory arguments. I mean if you are trying to kill it if it's already dead, then who are you fooling and who are you trying to convince ?


Flip side of the argument is why try to sell a dead horse.

The fundamental issue with EK is overcapacity, doesn't matter which frame. It could be A380, 77W, 77X, A350,787 or A320. Other airlines like Indigo which tried to choke competition by dumping capacity will face the same issues.


They may or may not have over capacity but they have the right number of airplanes only about 250 which allow them uniformity and identity among other things unlike airlines with much bigger numbers of airplanes. Also that over capacity is despite and/or because of the fact that they are limited in Germany and China , the 2 biggest countries in Europe and Asia. Over capacity would allow them to move in to Germany, China and some other countries when the conditions arise.
 
Vladex
Posts: 468
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 7:00 pm

Those are breakeven numbers . This is load factor https://samchui.com/2019/11/08/emirates ... sQseMB7llc
Image
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2333
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 7:16 pm

Vladex wrote:
Those are breakeven numbers . This is load factor https://samchui.com/2019/11/08/emirates ... sQseMB7llc
Image


The numbers he uses very clearly are identified as "Overall load factor" on page 67 on 2019. Breakeven load factor numbers are lower.

Here is a quote from that text:
As a result, our overall load factor improved by 0.6%pt and closed at 67.4% (2018-19: 66.8%). Our break-even load factor reduced to 63.4% (2018-19: 66.4%) due to lower unit costs per ATKM resulting from lower fuel price and various cost saving measures.


I suspect the Emirates' report numbers are revenue passengers, versus total.
Last edited by jbs2886 on Tue May 19, 2020 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
marcelh
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 7:37 pm

Opus99 wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Opus99 wrote:


I beg to differ. The 779 is just slightly bigger than the 77W and will have a huge drop in capacity, compared to the A380. Nowadays, two 77W have about the same capacity in First and Business, but almost 1,5 the capacity in Economy. So on high capacity routes with no slot restrictions, the "perfect" A380 replacement will be something that is slightly smaller than a 77W, and has about the same ratio between First, Business and Economy.

Good point. In terms of post covid planning the next best thing to the 380 is the 779 I mean it’s not that much bigger than the 77W but it will operate much more efficiently. But the thing about high capacity premium routes...aren’t they usually slot restricted?


Strato2 was talking about high capacity routes, and so did I. Why did you change it in high capacity premium routes to make your point?
 
Vladex
Posts: 468
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 7:41 pm

I gave you an Emirates link . I am not an insider so I don't care about theatrics and semantics but Emirates is there with all the other airlines except for LCC in terms of passenger numbers. Whether they are paying passengers or rewarding is not my point. Furthermore the guy that I respond to says in other thread that A380 and Emirates doesn't have yield and doesn't even have passengers at least on par with other airlines. It's also hard to see how DXB could have 90 million passengers with lower load factors. So is Emirates filling their A380's with cheap tickets or are their tickets so expensive as to be much less than full? Someone is lying and twisting things here since it can't really be both. All I know for sure is that DXB -YYZ is always packed and more expensive than an AC flight.
https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... -to-dubai/
 
Opus99
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 7:44 pm

marcelh wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
marcelh wrote:

I beg to differ. The 779 is just slightly bigger than the 77W and will have a huge drop in capacity, compared to the A380. Nowadays, two 77W have about the same capacity in First and Business, but almost 1,5 the capacity in Economy. So on high capacity routes with no slot restrictions, the "perfect" A380 replacement will be something that is slightly smaller than a 77W, and has about the same ratio between First, Business and Economy.

Good point. In terms of post covid planning the next best thing to the 380 is the 779 I mean it’s not that much bigger than the 77W but it will operate much more efficiently. But the thing about high capacity premium routes...aren’t they usually slot restricted?


Strato2 was talking about high capacity routes, and so did I. Why did you change it in high capacity premium routes to make your point?


Apologies. I didn’t change it knowingly. High capacity or high capacity premium, I asked a question, aren’t they usually slot restricted? I might very well be wrong but I’m genuinely wondering
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 8:01 pm

Vladex wrote:
I gave you an Emirates link . I am not an insider so I don't care about theatrics and semantics but Emirates is there with all the other airlines except for LCC in terms of passenger numbers. Whether they are paying passengers or rewarding is not my point. Furthermore the guy that I respond to says in other thread that A380 and Emirates doesn't have yield and doesn't even have passengers at least on par with other airlines. It's also hard to see how DXB could have 90 million passengers with lower load factors. So is Emirates filling their A380's with cheap tickets or are their tickets so expensive as to be much less than full? Someone is lying and twisting things here since it can't really be both. All I know for sure is that DXB -YYZ is always packed and more expensive than an AC flight.
https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... -to-dubai/


The link you continue post is half-yearly results ending Sep 2019, not annual results. EK released 2019-20 annual results on May 7, 2020.

Emirates operates 189,000 flights in a year, Half are DXB departures 94,500/year i.e., 259/day

DXB handles 373,261 movements in a year. 1022/day.

I don't know if my assumptions and math are correct, but DXB makes more money serving other airlines than supporting the EK show.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 8:09 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Vladex wrote:
I gave you an Emirates link . I am not an insider so I don't care about theatrics and semantics but Emirates is there with all the other airlines except for LCC in terms of passenger numbers. Whether they are paying passengers or rewarding is not my point. Furthermore the guy that I respond to says in other thread that A380 and Emirates doesn't have yield and doesn't even have passengers at least on par with other airlines. It's also hard to see how DXB could have 90 million passengers with lower load factors. So is Emirates filling their A380's with cheap tickets or are their tickets so expensive as to be much less than full? Someone is lying and twisting things here since it can't really be both. All I know for sure is that DXB -YYZ is always packed and more expensive than an AC flight.
https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... -to-dubai/


The link you continue post is half-yearly results ending Sep 2019, not annual results. EK released 2019-20 annual results on May 7, 2020.

Emirates operates 189,000 flights in a year, Half are DXB departures 94,500/year i.e., 259/day

DXB handles 373,261 movements in a year. 1022/day.

I don't know if my assumptions and math are correct, but DXB makes more money serving other airlines than supporting the EK show.

Airport movements are both arrivals and departures. Your EK number is a rough approximation of just departures. Based on your math DXB has about 511 departures a day (which of course would be all pax airlines, cargo departures, and private flights).
 
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 8:36 pm

Revelation wrote:
70% load factor suggests they aren't "always packed".


jbs2886 wrote:
I suspect the Emirates' report numbers are revenue passengers, versus total.


Per the EK 2019-20 financials pg. 181:

Passenger load factors for 2019 was 78.5%; 2018 was 76.8%; and 2017 was 77.5%.

The 'Overall load factor' which you guys seem to be misunderstanding is the combined passenger and cargo capacity load factor.

Per pg. 188:
Overall load factor - RTKM divided by ATKM.
RTKM - Actual traffic load (passenger and cargo) carried measured in terms of tonnes multiplied by the distance flown.
ATKM - Overall capacity measured in tonnes available for carriage of passengers and cargo load multiplied by the distance flown.


End result is what Vladex's numbers are correct in the context of talking about passenger load factors.
 
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 8:36 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Vladex wrote:
I gave you an Emirates link . I am not an insider so I don't care about theatrics and semantics but Emirates is there with all the other airlines except for LCC in terms of passenger numbers. Whether they are paying passengers or rewarding is not my point. Furthermore the guy that I respond to says in other thread that A380 and Emirates doesn't have yield and doesn't even have passengers at least on par with other airlines. It's also hard to see how DXB could have 90 million passengers with lower load factors. So is Emirates filling their A380's with cheap tickets or are their tickets so expensive as to be much less than full? Someone is lying and twisting things here since it can't really be both. All I know for sure is that DXB -YYZ is always packed and more expensive than an AC flight.
https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... -to-dubai/


The link you continue post is half-yearly results ending Sep 2019, not annual results. EK released 2019-20 annual results on May 7, 2020.

Emirates operates 189,000 flights in a year, Half are DXB departures 94,500/year i.e., 259/day

DXB handles 373,261 movements in a year. 1022/day.

I don't know if my assumptions and math are correct, but DXB makes more money serving other airlines than supporting the EK show.



Here is another link that purports to show Emirates annual load factors. Unless there is something dubious going on, it's always close to 80% and not 60%
https://www.statista.com/statistics/300 ... -airlines/
here is a link for a full year
https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... 9-results/
Passenger Seat Factor of 76.8%
Last edited by Vladex on Tue May 19, 2020 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 8:44 pm

Airlinerdude wrote:
Revelation wrote:
70% load factor suggests they aren't "always packed".


jbs2886 wrote:
I suspect the Emirates' report numbers are revenue passengers, versus total.


Per the EK 2019-20 financials pg. 181:

Passenger load factors for 2019 was 78.5%; 2018 was 76.8%; and 2017 was 77.5%.

The 'Overall load factor' which you guys seem to be misunderstanding is the combined passenger and cargo capacity load factor.

Per pg. 188:
Overall load factor - RTKM divided by ATKM.
RTKM - Actual traffic load (passenger and cargo) carried measured in terms of tonnes multiplied by the distance flown.
ATKM - Overall capacity measured in tonnes available for carriage of passengers and cargo load multiplied by the distance flown.


End result is what Vladex's numbers are correct in the context of talking about passenger load factors.


Ahh, thanks for the explanation!
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 10:08 pm

Up thread there were comments that us A nutters know nothing, we should observe the professional managers at the airlines. Well the most profitable airlines have tended to be the all 737 or all A320 airlines running a tightly managed network - Ryanair, WN, Alaska, and the like. Then the full market majors like LH, SIA, KLM, BA, AA, United, and Delta that have a full spectrum of planes ranging from RJ's to VLA's. Delta has no need for VLA's because their network does not need both the range and capacity of a VLA, use of 787 and A350's as their largest plane makes economic success.

In this EK is almost the only example that is exclusively the largest planes on the market. It almost ensures that load factor's will be squirrely, because many destinations cannot fill a 777, much less an A380. It makes lots of economic sense to down gauge the plane to fit the typical loads. Yield is always best if all seats can be sold, as those last seats can be sold at a profit vs loss leader.

The first step for EK to rationalize their fleet is to reduce the A380 count and add in the 787 and A350's for the smaller markets. So some A380s (about 1/3) will be out to the desert, a third into short term storage, and a third expected to be flying in the next few months.
 
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 10:47 pm

CHRISBA35X wrote:
Air travel will be back big time. We don't know when, but it will return. It has to. EK were a success story before CV19 and will be a success story after it. The unpalatable truth (for some on here) is that the A380 will be a part of that. It wont be hundreds of them at EK, but they'll certainly have use for a 40 or 50, and the A380 will continue to find useful service for BA, NH, EK, QF and LH and the ACMI specialists.

Which is 65 to 75 less frames than they have now, so even more pessimistic than the rumor. As for the other carriers, if any of them operate more than a small handful I would be surprised.

As a random unscientific datapoint at this moment there is only one A380 on FR, on the ground at DXB.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airports/dxb/ground

EK are simply not flying any, and neither is anyone else. Strange times right now, and we think it will get better (or hope) but it looks like they will be beating the poop out of the B77Ws in the meantime. They are the only other choice for a couple of years while they wait for the 787s and the A350s.
 
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Tue May 19, 2020 11:16 pm

Airlinerdude wrote:
Revelation wrote:
70% load factor suggests they aren't "always packed".

jbs2886 wrote:
I suspect the Emirates' report numbers are revenue passengers, versus total.

Per the EK 2019-20 financials pg. 181:

Passenger load factors for 2019 was 78.5%; 2018 was 76.8%; and 2017 was 77.5%.
....
End result is what Vladex's numbers are correct in the context of talking about passenger load factors.

I think all of us can agree none of the load factors presented meet the standard of "always packed"...

Bricktop wrote:
CHRISBA35X wrote:
Air travel will be back big time. We don't know when, but it will return. It has to. EK were a success story before CV19 and will be a success story after it. The unpalatable truth (for some on here) is that the A380 will be a part of that. It wont be hundreds of them at EK, but they'll certainly have use for a 40 or 50, and the A380 will continue to find useful service for BA, NH, EK, QF and LH and the ACMI specialists.

Which is 65 to 75 less frames than they have now, so even more pessimistic than the rumor. As for the other carriers, if any of them operate more than a small handful I would be surprised.

As a random unscientific datapoint at this moment there is only one A380 on FR, on the ground at DXB.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airports/dxb/ground

EK are simply not flying any, and neither is anyone else. Strange times right now, and we think it will get better (or hope) but it looks like they will be beating the poop out of the B77Ws in the meantime. They are the only other choice for a couple of years while they wait for the 787s and the A350s.

Our A380 fleet tracking thread viewtopic.php?t=1444531 suggests that only China Southern is routinely using A380s and they are only using 4 frames. Other airlines will do occasional training or freight sorties, but they are the exception rather than the rule. Relevant to this thread, it reports EK has 115 of 115 A380s stored.

Bloomberg tells us EK is trying to defer delivery of remaining A380s ( https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... deliveries ) while reducing headcount by 30%, retiring A380s earlier than planned, and "mostly rely on its Boeing Co. 777 wide-body jets during the recuperation period" ( https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... 80s-faster ).
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed May 20, 2020 3:14 am

I might have missed this posted earlier:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... short/amp/

Taking information from the link. EK owns 59 of the 115 A380s or 56 leased. Note: I do not know how much debt is assigned to owned aircraft.

Only a few aircraft will have aged out their lease (2008 deliveries). Everything else will be interesting to see how it is disposed of.

Lightsaber
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JayinKitsap
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed May 20, 2020 4:34 am

lightsaber wrote:
I might have missed this posted earlier:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... short/amp/

Taking information from the link. EK owns 59 of the 115 A380s or 56 leased. Note: I do not know how much debt is assigned to owned aircraft.

Only a few aircraft will have aged out their lease (2008 deliveries). Everything else will be interesting to see how it is disposed of.

Lightsaber


Does anyone know what 'normal' terms are for a widebody lease entered into in 2008? I'm aware of the specified maintenance typical at the end of the lease and that EK usually does this work in house. But take the hypothetical of an A380 that is on year 10 of a 12 year lease with cycles / hours less than the maximums of the lease. Per the contract EK would probably still pay 2 years of lease payments, do the final maintenance and hand the plane over at the designated place. But if the lessor does not see a market above scrap wouldn't they want cash vs the final maintenance? It seems dangerous to break a lease in the A380 case as the lessor would want to charge a lot more if they could because the residual will be dismal. Where do all of these get parked? at DWC out where the future runways were planned?

I am sure EK is playing musical planes, figuring out which to fly now (every leased plane possible that has green time), store the newer A380's, use for parts some of the owned frames, and defer as much maintenance as possible.

Aren't the EA engines on the A380 orphan's, I cannot find any other plane they are used on.
 
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flee
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed May 20, 2020 5:09 am

JayinKitsap wrote:
Aren't the EA engines on the A380 orphan's, I cannot find any other plane they are used on.

EA engines are on the oldest planes. EK only started taking delivery of RR engines in 2016.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed May 20, 2020 5:21 am

flee wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
Aren't the EA engines on the A380 orphan's, I cannot find any other plane they are used on.

EA engines are on the oldest planes. EK only started taking delivery of RR engines in 2016.


Yes EA on the first 90 so 360 engines + spares with EK. There are 40 other frames with EA, 10 each for AF, QR, EY, and KE so 160 engines + spares there, these 4 are also looking at retiring some too. The EA GP7200 is listed as only on the A380, it appears these will be orphans as the A380 winds down.
 
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed May 20, 2020 5:55 am

Revelation wrote:
Airlinerdude wrote:
Revelation wrote:
70% load factor suggests they aren't "always packed".

jbs2886 wrote:
I suspect the Emirates' report numbers are revenue passengers, versus total.

Per the EK 2019-20 financials pg. 181:

Passenger load factors for 2019 was 78.5%; 2018 was 76.8%; and 2017 was 77.5%.
....
End result is what Vladex's numbers are correct in the context of talking about passenger load factors.

I think all of us can agree none of the load factors presented meet the standard of "always packed"...

Bricktop wrote:
CHRISBA35X wrote:
Air travel will be back big time. We don't know when, but it will return. It has to. EK were a success story before CV19 and will be a success story after it. The unpalatable truth (for some on here) is that the A380 will be a part of that. It wont be hundreds of them at EK, but they'll certainly have use for a 40 or 50, and the A380 will continue to find useful service for BA, NH, EK, QF and LH and the ACMI specialists.

Which is 65 to 75 less frames than they have now, so even more pessimistic than the rumor. As for the other carriers, if any of them operate more than a small handful I would be surprised.

As a random unscientific datapoint at this moment there is only one A380 on FR, on the ground at DXB.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airports/dxb/ground

EK are simply not flying any, and neither is anyone else. Strange times right now, and we think it will get better (or hope) but it looks like they will be beating the poop out of the B77Ws in the meantime. They are the only other choice for a couple of years while they wait for the 787s and the A350s.

Our A380 fleet tracking thread viewtopic.php?t=1444531 suggests that only China Southern is routinely using A380s and they are only using 4 frames. Other airlines will do occasional training or freight sorties, but they are the exception rather than the rule. Relevant to this thread, it reports EK has 115 of 115 A380s stored.

Bloomberg tells us EK is trying to defer delivery of remaining A380s ( https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... deliveries ) while reducing headcount by 30%, retiring A380s earlier than planned, and "mostly rely on its Boeing Co. 777 wide-body jets during the recuperation period" ( https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... 80s-faster ).


What else will you do when you only have 777s and A380s? I think not more than 20 of the A380s will ever fly again.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed May 20, 2020 6:21 am

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
chiad wrote:
... thus a rumour is born.


Most rumors by former/present employees about EK ultimately became true. Of course there will never be an official statement even after 100% fleet is gone.

Just keep playing "Nearer my God to Thee".



Yeah, I'm not sure why this is so hard to believe. When the much vaunted western airlines that everyone here loves to fawn over are doing the same thing, why is it so hard to believe that EK is going to be making similarly drastic cuts?

It's mot that hard to fathom. EK only bought that airplane to show they had the Gonads To buy it! They didn't need it and they didn't have the revenue to even justify flying the airplane, Tim Clark played them for the Rubes they were as there was no business reason to justify any airline having that number of A380's
 
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed May 20, 2020 6:46 am

strfyr51 wrote:
PhilMcCrackin wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

Most rumors by former/present employees about EK ultimately became true. Of course there will never be an official statement even after 100% fleet is gone.

Just keep playing "Nearer my God to Thee".



Yeah, I'm not sure why this is so hard to believe. When the much vaunted western airlines that everyone here loves to fawn over are doing the same thing, why is it so hard to believe that EK is going to be making similarly drastic cuts?

It's mot that hard to fathom. EK only bought that airplane to show they had the Gonads To buy it! They didn't need it and they didn't have the revenue to even justify flying the airplane, Tim Clark played them for the Rubes they were as there was no business reason to justify any airline having that number of A380's


No, the idea was to push out any competition by flooding the market with cheap capacity. The problem is that people still pay more for a direct connection and the smaller twins are competitive in the market and most importantly, the ME3 fought with each other and they fought for the same customers. EK alone could have made the A380 work, but with the competition from EY and QR, it did not work.
 
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed May 20, 2020 6:52 am

seahawk wrote:

What else will you do when you only have 777s and A380s? I think not more than 20 of the A380s will ever fly again.


Just as well the 380s are leased and not direct purchased.

Maybe the EK will introduce its own small A320/737 fleets? Plenty of assets available for cheap rent I guess.

Or they maybe the integrate flYduBai in their business and fly dubai is gone?
 
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed May 20, 2020 11:33 am

seahawk wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
PhilMcCrackin wrote:


Yeah, I'm not sure why this is so hard to believe. When the much vaunted western airlines that everyone here loves to fawn over are doing the same thing, why is it so hard to believe that EK is going to be making similarly drastic cuts?

It's mot that hard to fathom. EK only bought that airplane to show they had the Gonads To buy it! They didn't need it and they didn't have the revenue to even justify flying the airplane, Tim Clark played them for the Rubes they were as there was no business reason to justify any airline having that number of A380's


No, the idea was to push out any competition by flooding the market with cheap capacity. The problem is that people still pay more for a direct connection and the smaller twins are competitive in the market and most importantly, the ME3 fought with each other and they fought for the same customers. EK alone could have made the A380 work, but with the competition from EY and QR, it did not work.


That would work only if EK has capacity/cost control and other countries keep extending bi-laterals. Both were not happening. EK kept taking deliveries and countries slowly tightened access.

If EK management had either strategic vision (or) even plan B, it should have stopped ordering (Very)Large Planes 10 years back. We "read" a lot about how "adaptive" Emirates management is, but haven't seen in action.

They have more than enough capacity for next 12 years. Where is the room for 77Xs, A350s and 787-10s

60,000 own workforce is way over needed for 259 daily dispatches. That is not counting dnata employees handling EK ops of 45,000 total.

Both overcapacity and COVID-19 are very difficult things to sanitize, than say a.net threads.
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Opus99
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed May 20, 2020 12:53 pm

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... low-to-jet

Emirates looking to cancel last 5 A380s
 
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par13del
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed May 20, 2020 1:11 pm

Opus99 wrote:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-20/emirates-seeks-to-scrap-last-5-a380-orders-in-final-blow-to-jet

Emirates looking to cancel last 5 A380s

So cheaper to take delivery and just fly the plane to a boneyard for long term storage versus the additional expense of adding the a/c to inventory with all the associated paperwork tracking required.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed May 20, 2020 2:34 pm

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
Just as well the 380s are leased and not direct purchased.

According to post #137, that is not the case, it's around half leased and half owned.

Opus99 wrote:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-20/emirates-seeks-to-scrap-last-5-a380-orders-in-final-blow-to-jet

Emirates looking to cancel last 5 A380s

Wow, that is surreal, even to someone who has been saying the A380's end would happen faster than expected. Yet another potential indignity for the program.

They want to take the three to be delivered by March 2021 but walk away from the five scheduled for delivery later, even if it means eating penalties of $70m a plane.

As most of us know, the last sets of wings are already built and at TLS. It would mean five aircraft whose wings are already built would not be taken up by EK, and perhaps not even finished.

Cached production list ( https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... irefox-b-1 ) agrees: there are three EK A380s already at XFW being outfitted. At TLS there are 3 in the FAL, one awaiting body join, one awaiting parts. It's these last five that are at risk.

What would Airbus do if EK is adamant about not taking the planes? Complete them to a flying state then fly them to a scrapyard? That would be very expensive. Scrap them on site? That would be pretty demoralizing, no? No good answer, sigh.

Relevant to this thread:

Emirates is already looking at accelerating the retirement of a chunk of its existing A380 fleet, Bloomberg reported Sunday. That could see it stand down as many as 65 aircraft earlier than scheduled, according to one of the people.

So the 40% cut reported earlier may end up being 57%, according to this report.

par13del wrote:
So cheaper to take delivery and just fly the plane to a boneyard for long term storage versus the additional expense of adding the a/c to inventory with all the associated paperwork tracking required.

I think you save even more money by not making them flyable. There's a lot of man hours in FAL and testing that you avoid, and even more paperwork that you avoid if it never becomes flyable. Salvage the high value parts, scrap the rest.
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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LaunchDetected
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed May 20, 2020 3:04 pm

Revelation wrote:
Scrap them on site? That would be pretty demoralizing, no?


I can assure you that everything is already pretty demoralizing for the people working there. It would be just another nail in a huge coffin.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Wed May 20, 2020 3:06 pm

Revelation wrote:
According to post #137, that is not the case, it's around half leased and half owned.


In 2019-20 annual report, Aircraft operating leases are not shown separately, shown under Depreciation and amortization, I suppose there is an IFRS reason/excuse for that.

EK's interest payments (page 70) jumped from AED 1.9 Billion to AED 4.9 Billion.
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Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos