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mercure1
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Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Tue May 19, 2020 4:49 pm

As part of economic measures announced by the Ecuador government, state airline TAME which has incurred $400mil losses in the last 5-years will be liquidated.

TAME formed in 1962 was the transport arm of the Air Force which eventually evolved into a more commercial enterprise.

The move is part of broader emergency economic measures taken in Ecuador which includes shutting other state enterprises and reducing ministries and institutions.

https://www.france24.com/en/20200519-ec ... rus-crisis
https://aerolatinnews.com/destacado/aer ... in-moreno/
mercure f-wtcc
 
AMP44
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Tue May 19, 2020 5:06 pm

Sad news for the employees at TAME and for Ecuadorian aviation, but good news for Avianca and LATAM.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Tue May 19, 2020 5:11 pm

"However, he said he will remain on routes connecting places that do not have private flight alternatives."

So they're not ceasing operations or?...
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Tue May 19, 2020 5:18 pm

I believe the military will provide essential air service links to select domestic markets still. Bit ironic as TAME and its name derives its roots from having started that way as a military transport.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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PA110
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Tue May 19, 2020 5:43 pm

TAME was dysfunctional at the best of times, but they did get the job done, most of the time. RIP Tame! I enjoyed my flights out to Galapagos and back.
Look, it's been swell, but the swelling's gone down.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Tue May 19, 2020 5:49 pm

I think the days of every country having their own international carrier are over. Countries like Guyana, Belize, Nicaragua and Guatemala have only small carriers serving mostly domestic cities. Unless a country is relatively wealthy, they won't be able to burn cash on an airline that doesn't make money.
 
Antarius
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Tue May 19, 2020 6:25 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
I think the days of every country having their own international carrier are over. Countries like Guyana, Belize, Nicaragua and Guatemala have only small carriers serving mostly domestic cities. Unless a country is relatively wealthy, they won't be able to burn cash on an airline that doesn't make money.


Agree.

That said, TAME wasn't the usual basket case airline launching service to JFK etc. They have a tiny fleet of 9 narrowbodies and regionals serving primarily domestic destinations.
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Tue May 19, 2020 6:53 pm

I have to wonder how much the service to JFK (the A332 that served the route has since been broken up) hastened the demise, as one could argue that an A319, and nowadays, the A20N, could have done the job as well. (In normal times, two carriers would be flying GYE-JFK, but no one flies UIO-JFK as GYE is sea level but UIO is 8400 feet AMSL...B6 and XL.) Also, EQ just couldn't keep its fleet flying; a good number of its planes had been grounded at UIO for a long time.

JFK-Ecuador is mostly VFR traffic. I have to wonder if B6 might in a few years do a triangular JFK-UIO-GYE-JFK route about 3-4 times weekly, and JFK-GYE terminator the other days. (B6 uses the A21N; XL uses a LA B763 on GYE-JFK.)
 
FSDan
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Tue May 19, 2020 8:00 pm

Antarius wrote:
That said, TAME wasn't the usual basket case airline launching service to JFK etc.


Bad example, since they did fly to JFK until quite recently.
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MIflyer12
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Tue May 19, 2020 8:08 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
I think the days of every country having their own international carrier are over. Countries like Guyana, Belize, Nicaragua and Guatemala have only small carriers serving mostly domestic cities. Unless a country is relatively wealthy, they won't be able to burn cash on an airline that doesn't make money.


Pealing off the international traffic to other carriers reduces economies of scale in aircraft and labor and makes the few domestic routes even bigger losers. Or do you trust international carrier groups to do the domestic flights, too? Are you ready to leave prices and frequency unregulated? There are some trade-offs to be made.
 
EddieDude
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Tue May 19, 2020 8:41 pm

I flew TAME from GYE to the Galápagos and back in September of 2009 if my memory serves me well, and I thought they were brilliant! What a sad day for aviation. RIP TAME.
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dcajet
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Tue May 19, 2020 10:17 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
I think the days of every country having their own international carrier are over. Countries like Guyana, Belize, Nicaragua and Guatemala have only small carriers serving mostly domestic cities. Unless a country is relatively wealthy, they won't be able to burn cash on an airline that doesn't make money.


Pealing off the international traffic to other carriers reduces economies of scale in aircraft and labor and makes the few domestic routes even bigger losers. Or do you trust international carrier groups to do the domestic flights, too? Are you ready to leave prices and frequency unregulated? There are some trade-offs to be made.


Plus I'd argue that Ecuador is in a different league than the countries aforementioned. It is a far larger economy that merits a solid airline offering good connectivity to its people. Now whether that is a state owned enterprise or a private one, it's a different discussion.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
debonair
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Tue May 19, 2020 10:51 pm

FSDan wrote:

Bad example, since they did fly to JFK until quite recently.


True, but the competition against Eastern Airlines (Mk.III) would have been too fierce... :duck:
 
Antarius
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Tue May 19, 2020 11:59 pm

FSDan wrote:
Antarius wrote:
That said, TAME wasn't the usual basket case airline launching service to JFK etc.


Bad example, since they did fly to JFK until quite recently.


Fair enough. I meant it more in the sense of ULH flights to JFK.

UIO-JFK is narrowbody distance easily.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Wed May 20, 2020 12:36 am

Antarius wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Antarius wrote:
That said, TAME wasn't the usual basket case airline launching service to JFK etc.


Bad example, since they did fly to JFK until quite recently.


Fair enough. I meant it more in the sense of ULH flights to JFK.

UIO-JFK is narrowbody distance easily.


The only narrowbody that can fly that route is the 757. High altitude would cause excessive weight restrictions for 737-700s and A319s. Continental once flew EWR-UIO with a 757. If I remember correctly sometimes the 737-700s to IAH and 757s to EWR would need a fuel stop in PTY depending on payload. There is a lot of cargo coming from UIO.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Wed May 20, 2020 1:10 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
I think the days of every country having their own international carrier are over. Countries like Guyana, Belize, Nicaragua and Guatemala have only small carriers serving mostly domestic cities. Unless a country is relatively wealthy, they won't be able to burn cash on an airline that doesn't make money.


Pealing off the international traffic to other carriers reduces economies of scale in aircraft and labor and makes the few domestic routes even bigger losers. Or do you trust international carrier groups to do the domestic flights, too? Are you ready to leave prices and frequency unregulated? There are some trade-offs to be made.


Every country should be able to connect its capital to its main domestic cities, though sufficient demand has to be there to make the flights viable. There are also some examples, such as Hungary, where other carriers have filled the void where domestic carriers were unsuccessful. The growth of AV and LA also proves that carriers can serve a wide range of international markets from a city that is not based in their home markets. I think international air service in Ecuador provided by other carriers will be sufficient, though I think it was a good idea for its government to continue domestic service to the country's largest markets.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Wed May 20, 2020 2:45 am

Antarius wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Antarius wrote:
That said, TAME wasn't the usual basket case airline launching service to JFK etc.


Bad example, since they did fly to JFK until quite recently.


Fair enough. I meant it more in the sense of ULH flights to JFK.

UIO-JFK is narrowbody distance easily.


UIO is 8400 feet AMSL. No Airbus product available then could fly UIO-JFK except a wide-body or the A319, The A20N and the A21N with a PW1135-JM engine can do hot and high now. That's why B6 was doing GYE-JFK, although they could do JFK-UIO-GYE-JFK as a triangular. XL flies GYE-JFK with a wide-body...they could conceivably do UIO-JFK as well.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Wed May 20, 2020 2:55 am

usdcaguy wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
I think the days of every country having their own international carrier are over. Countries like Guyana, Belize, Nicaragua and Guatemala have only small carriers serving mostly domestic cities. Unless a country is relatively wealthy, they won't be able to burn cash on an airline that doesn't make money.


Pealing off the international traffic to other carriers reduces economies of scale in aircraft and labor and makes the few domestic routes even bigger losers. Or do you trust international carrier groups to do the domestic flights, too? Are you ready to leave prices and frequency unregulated? There are some trade-offs to be made.


Every country should be able to connect its capital to its main domestic cities, though sufficient demand has to be there to make the flights viable. There are also some examples, such as Hungary, where other carriers have filled the void where domestic carriers were unsuccessful. The growth of AV and LA also proves that carriers can serve a wide range of international markets from a city that is not based in their home markets. I think international air service in Ecuador provided by other carriers will be sufficient, though I think it was a good idea for its government to continue domestic service to the country's largest markets.


The reality is that Ecuador has never needed three domestic carriers that all essentially fly the same routes. Something had to give at some point.
 
RCS763AV
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Wed May 20, 2020 1:10 pm

Sad news! First Latin carrier to bite the dust. However, they never achieved critical mass and their international services never really stuck, except for UIO-ESM/TUA-CLO which lasted decades. LA and AV serve the domestic market well (wasn't EQ third in market share?) and international connectivity is provided by them and other carriers. Ecuador will be fine.
 
Okcflyer
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Wed May 20, 2020 1:16 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Pealing off the international traffic to other carriers reduces economies of scale in aircraft and labor and makes the few domestic routes even bigger losers. Or do you trust international carrier groups to do the domestic flights, too? Are you ready to leave prices and frequency unregulated? There are some trade-offs to be made.


Every country should be able to connect its capital to its main domestic cities, though sufficient demand has to be there to make the flights viable. There are also some examples, such as Hungary, where other carriers have filled the void where domestic carriers were unsuccessful. The growth of AV and LA also proves that carriers can serve a wide range of international markets from a city that is not based in their home markets. I think international air service in Ecuador provided by other carriers will be sufficient, though I think it was a good idea for its government to continue domestic service to the country's largest markets.


The reality is that Ecuador has never needed three domestic carriers that all essentially fly the same routes. Something had to give at some point.


Exactly. The market isn’t that big.

While TAME did a pretty good job of rebranding a few years back, the reality is the locals still thought of it as “Icaro” and it’s horrible safety record. Meanwhile, LATAM/Avianca have favorable public opinion. At least in my experience with my family there.

It wasn’t until just a couple years ago that government employees were required to fly TAME domestically when traveling on gov business.

However, the presence of TAME did appear to keep other fares in line. Often times Avianca was only $30-40 more than TAME for domestic routings. At least when I booked.

That said, due to excess capacity, the number of flights available outside of the GYE-UIO trunk route has decreased exponentially. All 3 used to fly UIO-MEC multiple times a day. Last time I booked that route, Avianca was once a day with a couple of days twice. No LATAM. Tame did have a good schedule though (3x daily).

Similar story with GYE-CUE. Last time we traveled that, we took TAME in their ATR. The other flights were ridiculously expensive or schedule didn’t work.

Back in 2012-2013, Avianca (Aerogal) flew far more of these short hops on a routine basis. Doubtful it was profitable as I don’t recall ever seeing high load factors on my few trips.

As I work in the oil industry, it’ll be interesting to see what happens with UIO-Coca. Much of that traffic is with Tame.

Regardless, I agree with Lenin decision. State run enterprises are extremely risky and dangerous, especially in a country known for corruption. Best to work with the private carriers and go the traditional route of rev guarantees for critical routes. Should cost a lot less than $400M....
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Thu May 28, 2020 5:56 pm

Government reports Tame has accumulated liabilities and debts of at least US$200 million including $16 million in back wages. Estimated its assets are worth about $75 million.
The liquidation process will take 60 days in which assets will be sold.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Thu May 28, 2020 6:04 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
I think the days of every country having their own international carrier are over. Countries like Guyana, Belize, Nicaragua and Guatemala have only small carriers serving mostly domestic cities. Unless a country is relatively wealthy, they won't be able to burn cash on an airline that doesn't make money.


Pealing off the international traffic to other carriers reduces economies of scale in aircraft and labor and makes the few domestic routes even bigger losers. Or do you trust international carrier groups to do the domestic flights, too? Are you ready to leave prices and frequency unregulated? There are some trade-offs to be made.


Every country should be able to connect its capital to its main domestic cities, though sufficient demand has to be there to make the flights viable. There are also some examples, such as Hungary, where other carriers have filled the void where domestic carriers were unsuccessful.


Hungary isn't a representative example comparable to Ecuador. Lots of international carriers are granted access to Hungary by EU rules and EU reciprocal treaties, with EU competition regulation.
 
alfa164
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Thu May 28, 2020 6:19 pm

Okcflyer wrote:
While TAME did a pretty good job of rebranding a few years back, the reality is the locals still thought of it as “Icaro” and it’s horrible safety record. Meanwhile, LATAM/Avianca have favorable public opinion. At least in my experience with my family there.


Huh? Icaro and TAME were two totally distinct entities; they had no relationship to each other. Indeed Icaro was formed as a competitor to TAME; why would anyone think of them as being the same?
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Okcflyer
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Thu May 28, 2020 6:47 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Pealing off the international traffic to other carriers reduces economies of scale in aircraft and labor and makes the few domestic routes even bigger losers. Or do you trust international carrier groups to do the domestic flights, too? Are you ready to leave prices and frequency unregulated? There are some trade-offs to be made.


Every country should be able to connect its capital to its main domestic cities, though sufficient demand has to be there to make the flights viable. There are also some examples, such as Hungary, where other carriers have filled the void where domestic carriers were unsuccessful.


Hungary isn't a representative example comparable to Ecuador. Lots of international carriers are granted access to Hungary by EU rules and EU reciprocal treaties, with EU competition regulation.


Small airlines can’t compete (don’t really have a place) in South/Central America now that the Avianca and LATAM empires have been assembled. The privately held small carrier that were decent were gobbled up via merged or acquisition by AV / LA. These organizations have local entities in most of the countries and there are sufficient means to ensure reasonable, economically justified service through management of taxation of the local entities and international air rights.

Unfortunately, especially in this region, it’s far to common to turn these types of organizations into political issues or to promise/promote unrealistic and unreasonable service requires as part of election campaigns. Both by work rules that drive costs too high and required minimum services or pricing.

It creates this opposed complex where the publicly owned airlines are usually not trusted by general public for safety concerns. They’re often correlated to public corruption (and usually legit concern), terrible safety records, and uninspiring service and market. The last two are a combination of being unable to hire / recruit the best personnel to manage the companies (branding/marketing/service/product), often tied to political appointees, or with legal requirements to appease certain populations. As such, they’re never able to build strong / good brand recognition and therefore are rarely selected by “choice”.

The private carriers are able to consolidate marketing and branding, actually attractive competent folks to put together comprehensive strategies, with prior experience, and on large scale. Therefore, the general public desires this experience, both at the airport and airplane, as well as perception. And their frequent flyer and network enable far broader opportunities to travel within that brand.

These factors largely lead to the M&A race that built what exists today (though now bankrupt but BQ was going to hit the small carrier anyway.) For example, Aerogal wasnt going to be able to keep up with a growing LAN, hence merging with AV before it was too late.

So in conclusion, the publicly owned companies are generally under or poorly managed with limited talent / expertise, highly interfered by political forces, and with terrible perception by the general public.

Politicians want to promise an ideal dream and arguing the rich or foreign entities are stealing money or stealing jobs (or promising lucrative airline jobs) is sure to obtain a following, usually by the same folks who rarely travel anyway.

And so the cycle keeps on going around and around. The next president will argue to bring back TAME for the jobs and other pipes dreams. Or demand AV / LA operate uneconomically with various rules. Until they collapse or give up, leaving a void, and then folks get fed up with the BS and lack of economical successful because of dumb government rules, so they’re pulled back, and so the cycle repeats.

This is certainly not limited to such region but it’s a great example.

Again, good on Ecuador gov shutting down the boondoggle.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Fri May 29, 2020 3:13 am

The AT45s, which are owned by the Ecuadorian government, could still be of use for some domestic services. A tender could be put out for their operation with the winner then contracted to fly those frames as essential domestic links. That said, TAME did need to be closed. Ecuador can be adequately served with 12 mainline-sized planes for short-haul, plus the ATRs.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:04 pm

Former TAME employees aim to create a regional airline with three ATRs as they hope to save the airline which is in the process of being liquidated.

https://noticiasporelmundo.com/exemplea ... as-ecuador
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
clo1973
Posts: 154
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Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:06 pm

Sad news, I flew them twice in 2014/15 in their route CLO-ESM-UIO, good plane and good service...
 
danipawa
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:18 am

Re: Ecuador TAME to be liquidated

Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:35 am

TAME Amazonia to close together with its parent

TAME Amazonía (Quito Int'l) has notified all of its employees that despite earlier hopes, the regional specialist would be closed together with its parent TAME Ecuador (EQ, Quito Int'l), Ecuadorean aviation journalist Nicolas Larenas has reported.

TAME Amazonia operated two Quest Aircraft Kodiak 100s on regional routes in the remote, jungle-clad parts of Ecuador out of its main base at Shell Mera. When the cash-strapped government of the South American country resolved to close the flag carrier in May 2020 as a part of COVID-caused austerity drive, there was initial hope that the regional subsidiary would survive due to its key role for connectivity within the country.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... its-parent

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