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AA747123
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Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Wed May 20, 2020 3:57 pm

Heard this morning that the shuffle at LHR will continue as ALL OW carriers will move to T5 in LHR next month. With the drop in flights for the long term this would make sense to me.
 
chonetsao
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Wed May 20, 2020 4:01 pm

Maybe Heathrow Airport should complete the T2A building so that all airlines can use T2 and T5 in the foreseeable future. In the same time they can rebuild T3. The best time to do it before the passenger number go back to 60-70 millions mark.
 
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Aisak
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Wed May 20, 2020 4:03 pm

What is “All OW carriers” these days? Just Finnair?
 
AA747123
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Wed May 20, 2020 4:03 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Maybe Heathrow Airport should complete the T2A building so that all airlines can use T2 and T5 in the foreseeable future. In the same time they can rebuild T3. The best time to do it before the passenger number go back to 60-70 millions mark.


Was the long term plan to level T3 and rebuild it? It is of the oldest and out of date terminals?

I know this sounds crazy, but "Hellthrow" is my favorite airport in the world!
 
Coexstud
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Wed May 20, 2020 4:08 pm

Aisak wrote:
What is “All OW carriers” these days? Just Finnair?

No AA too
 
Arion640
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Wed May 20, 2020 4:09 pm

Aisak wrote:
What is “All OW carriers” these days? Just Finnair?


I think Qatar, Cathay, American and Japan airlines are all still operating to Heathrow.
Last edited by Arion640 on Wed May 20, 2020 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
deltairlines
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Wed May 20, 2020 4:10 pm

Aisak wrote:
What is “All OW carriers” these days? Just Finnair?


FlightAware shows JAL running from HND, Qatar from DOH, American from DFW and MIA and Qantas from PER. I know the American flights are carrying passengers.
 
Eirules
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Wed May 20, 2020 4:15 pm

I wonder could we see EI move to T5 too. It might make sense as flights start to come back on stream with increased demand into T2 and with EI codesharing with BA on 4 routes ex LHR into Ireland it’d make for much easier connections
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janders
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Wed May 20, 2020 4:20 pm

As I recall AA already stated they would be moving in with BA at employee event last year.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Wed May 20, 2020 4:59 pm

Yeah I thought AA was set to do this already? Makes sense though allows for better connections , which are more important than ever
 
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IrishAyes
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Wed May 20, 2020 10:03 pm

y’all might be thinking of BA’s moved to T8 at JFK instead...
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Wed May 20, 2020 10:06 pm

AA Vasu Raja stated last year that AA was planning on moving into T5

viewtopic.php?t=1427813
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OA412
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Wed May 20, 2020 10:10 pm

I know things have changed dramatically in the last several months, but assuming a return to pre-COVID levels in, say, 4 years, is there even enough room for all OW carriers at T5? There wasn't even enough room for all BA ops, requiring them to use T3 for certain long haul (and 1 or 2 shorthaul) flights.
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DTVG
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Wed May 20, 2020 10:15 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Maybe Heathrow Airport should complete the T2A building so that all airlines can use T2 and T5 in the foreseeable future. In the same time they can rebuild T3. The best time to do it before the passenger number go back to 60-70 millions mark.


Good luck, by that time they will still be sruggling to get a permit.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Wed May 20, 2020 10:55 pm

AA747123 wrote:
Heard this morning that the shuffle at LHR will continue as ALL OW carriers will move to T5 in LHR next month. With the drop in flights for the long term this would make sense to me.

Your last sentence is wrong. Yes, it kinda makes some sense at the minute, however if we’re in recovery mode next summer, T5 couldn’t manage that, and mothballing T3 won’t be cheap. It’s a short term fix while the UK remains locked down.
 
Opus99
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Wed May 20, 2020 11:04 pm

skipness1E wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
Heard this morning that the shuffle at LHR will continue as ALL OW carriers will move to T5 in LHR next month. With the drop in flights for the long term this would make sense to me.

Your last sentence is wrong. Yes, it kinda makes some sense at the minute, however if we’re in recovery mode next summer, T5 couldn’t manage that, and mothballing T3 won’t be cheap. It’s a short term fix while the UK remains locked down.

What if the 747s/380s dont come back?
 
skipness1E
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Wed May 20, 2020 11:10 pm

Opus99 wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
Heard this morning that the shuffle at LHR will continue as ALL OW carriers will move to T5 in LHR next month. With the drop in flights for the long term this would make sense to me.

Your last sentence is wrong. Yes, it kinda makes some sense at the minute, however if we’re in recovery mode next summer, T5 couldn’t manage that, and mothballing T3 won’t be cheap. It’s a short term fix while the UK remains locked down.

What if the 747s/380s dont come back?

Even if LHR traffic is still down 20% by 2022 T5 still couldn’t take all of BA T5/T3 ex LGW and all of Oneworld. It’s not a medium term possibility unless traffic falls about 40% and stays there. It’s my local airfield, I am pretty close to what’s possible given traffic levels.
 
Opus99
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Wed May 20, 2020 11:42 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Your last sentence is wrong. Yes, it kinda makes some sense at the minute, however if we’re in recovery mode next summer, T5 couldn’t manage that, and mothballing T3 won’t be cheap. It’s a short term fix while the UK remains locked down.

What if the 747s/380s dont come back?

Even if LHR traffic is still down 20% by 2022 T5 still couldn’t take all of BA T5/T3 ex LGW and all of Oneworld. It’s not a medium term possibility unless traffic falls about 40% and stays there. It’s my local airfield, I am pretty close to what’s possible given traffic levels.

It’s my local airfield too. I think it can handle it given that’s about 40 aircrafts gone. The other carriers with also reduced schedules. If you think about it. How many rotations a day to international carriers have? Americans will be significantly reduced for a long time. Even though I think it will just be the big ones like AA, CX and QR. Between CX and QR that’s Only about 10 aircrafts
 
Eurowingsa320
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Thu May 21, 2020 12:33 am

AA747123 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Maybe Heathrow Airport should complete the T2A building so that all airlines can use T2 and T5 in the foreseeable future. In the same time they can rebuild T3. The best time to do it before the passenger number go back to 60-70 millions mark.


Was the long term plan to level T3 and rebuild it? It is of the oldest and out of date terminals?

I know this sounds crazy, but "Hellthrow" is my favorite airport in the world!


I believe the plan is still to level terminal 3 and build a terminal 2 extension in its place instead.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Thu May 21, 2020 12:42 am

Unless they are breaking ground on T5D right now, how do they plan to fit everything in the long term?
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eurotrader85
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Thu May 21, 2020 1:39 am

I would agree no way they can all fit in. AA long term only makes sense with T5D and original plan was for the underground train to go all the way through to T3 so T3 & T5 become a mass OW extension of each other. There is no way otherwise it makes sense long term, let alone when MH come back and I assume QR might have something to say about abandoning their lounge in T4. T5 alone simply can't handle all that traffic. Now would be ideal for LHR to ramp up construction investment, but typically at the time revenues are falling....

One thing I heard rumours about, BA were set to pass over some TATL timed slots at the bequest of the competition commission and were being surprisingly cooperative about it. Obviously the argument was if you want government help then this is the price, for good or worse, but does anyone know how many they were giving away? Noted these were from 'London' so LGW slots may have been the consideration.
Last edited by eurotrader85 on Thu May 21, 2020 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
eurotrader85
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Thu May 21, 2020 1:47 am

Eurowingsa320 wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Maybe Heathrow Airport should complete the T2A building so that all airlines can use T2 and T5 in the foreseeable future. In the same time they can rebuild T3. The best time to do it before the passenger number go back to 60-70 millions mark.


Was the long term plan to level T3 and rebuild it? It is of the oldest and out of date terminals?

I know this sounds crazy, but "Hellthrow" is my favorite airport in the world!


I believe the plan is still to level terminal 3 and build a terminal 2 extension in its place instead.


I don't believe T3 was to be knocked down to be part of T2, rather to be linked to T5 so OW were all under one roof. T1 is slowly being levelled for the T2 expansion, which would make it as large as the expanded T5 when finished. In any case T3 is on the other side of the inner ring road so combining with T2 would make a logistical and construction mess. It would actually be easier to link T3 with T5 once the fuel silos are moved.
 
jrfspa320
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Thu May 21, 2020 3:28 am

I cant see this happening. MH, QR, CX and QF have heavily invested in their own lounges. I cant see these four particularly subjecting their passengers to a sub par experience with the BA/T5 set up. Prior to covid at least, T5 was always packed with poor lounges and terrible shuttle service to the satellites. I dont think the main building has capacity for more passengers with a D pier, let alone the shuttle. The I.T. would also have to be rebuilt. I can see AA moving but thats it.
 
deltairlines
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Thu May 21, 2020 4:11 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
I cant see this happening. MH, QR, CX and QF have heavily invested in their own lounges. I cant see these four particularly subjecting their passengers to a sub par experience with the BA/T5 set up. Prior to covid at least, T5 was always packed with poor lounges and terrible shuttle service to the satellites. I dont think the main building has capacity for more passengers with a D pier, let alone the shuttle. The I.T. would also have to be rebuilt. I can see AA moving but thats it.


T3 is closed right now, so if I were Cathay, I'd rather have the BA lounges over any contract lounge in T2.

That being said, I'll take Cathay's lounge in T3 over nearly any other lounge at Heathrow.
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Thu May 21, 2020 6:56 am

T5D...? And where do you suppose that is going to go...? There’s is no room for that., and all the stands around the fire station /EAA/ fuel dump are already in use,and currently served by coaching.
As for the airline moves., this is being pushed by HAL.... supposedly short term, but who knows., other than to say, not a very popular decision .
 
smi0006
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Thu May 21, 2020 7:00 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
I cant see this happening. MH, QR, CX and QF have heavily invested in their own lounges. I cant see these four particularly subjecting their passengers to a sub par experience with the BA/T5 set up. Prior to covid at least, T5 was always packed with poor lounges and terrible shuttle service to the satellites. I dont think the main building has capacity for more passengers with a D pier, let alone the shuttle. The I.T. would also have to be rebuilt. I can see AA moving but thats it.


I agree - BAA may not simply end the leases on these lounge tenancies either.

Not to mention it’s not just the airlines - but the ground handlers that would also have to move with them. Which brings into offices and fit out... quiet a big logistical move, and expensive. Is the sortation system in T5 BA, or BAA common use? What about checkin/gate/baggage services etc - common use? Or BA equipment.

I could only see this being a very short term move until the terminal reopens. Maybe 3-6months.
 
Lofty
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Thu May 21, 2020 8:37 am

My understanding is a move of other flights into T5 has a IT issue.

LHR T5 has only BA systems, for other airlines they would need access to multi user sets, this would mean a complete hardware change of all PCs.
 
Lofty
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Thu May 21, 2020 8:41 am

On stand capacity. With less shorthaul flights this would open up stand 514 516 and 518 for longhaul. As for EI moving to T5, T5 only has one CTA stand / arrivals gate (523) this is being used by the IOM flight at the moment. Stand 522 was built to accommodate CTA flights so I guess could be put back into action.
 
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vhtje
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Thu May 21, 2020 8:47 am

KLMatSJC wrote:
Unless they are breaking ground on T5D right now, how do they plan to fit everything in the long term?


OA412 wrote:
I know things have changed dramatically in the last several months, but assuming a return to pre-COVID levels in, say, 4 years, is there even enough room for all OW carriers at T5? There wasn't even enough room for all BA ops, requiring them to use T3 for certain long haul (and 1 or 2 shorthaul) flights.


I understand from a Heathrow social media group I am a member of that this is a temporary move whilst movements are low. There will be further moments of carriers between terminals once operations resume and flights ramp up.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
konkret
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Thu May 21, 2020 8:56 am

deltairlines wrote:
jrfspa320 wrote:
I cant see this happening. MH, QR, CX and QF have heavily invested in their own lounges. I cant see these four particularly subjecting their passengers to a sub par experience with the BA/T5 set up. Prior to covid at least, T5 was always packed with poor lounges and terrible shuttle service to the satellites. I dont think the main building has capacity for more passengers with a D pier, let alone the shuttle. The I.T. would also have to be rebuilt. I can see AA moving but thats it.


T3 is closed right now, so if I were Cathay, I'd rather have the BA lounges over any contract lounge in T2.

That being said, I'll take Cathay's lounge in T3 over nearly any other lounge at Heathrow.


Aren’t most of the lounges currently closed anyway?
 
Lofty
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Thu May 21, 2020 9:34 am

All lounges are closed
 
LHR01
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Thu May 21, 2020 10:12 am

AA747123 wrote:
Heard this morning that the shuffle at LHR will continue as ALL OW carriers will move to T5 in LHR next month. With the drop in flights for the long term this would make sense to me.


I agree, would make sense to me. Where did you hear this from??
 
skipness1E
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Thu May 21, 2020 11:08 am

LHR01 wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
Heard this morning that the shuffle at LHR will continue as ALL OW carriers will move to T5 in LHR next month. With the drop in flights for the long term this would make sense to me.


I agree, would make sense to me. Where did you hear this from??

The drop in flights for the long term? How long? Cos you are talking about closing T3 for the “long term”. As things ramp up T2 will be needed for STAR carriers again and so with T4 and T3 closed, T5 can be used as soon as the 16 parked BA heavies at T5C leave LHR or start flying again. But I don’t see Finnair, JAL, SriLankan, Royal Jordanian, Qatar and AMERICAN all in T5 this time next year. It’s not remotely big enough. It makes sense for a ramp up but that’s not sustainable once capacity hits about 50%.
 
BealineV953
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:05 pm

eurotrader85 wrote:
Eurowingsa320 wrote:
AA747123 wrote:

Was the long term plan to level T3 and rebuild it? It is of the oldest and out of date terminals?

!


I believe the plan is still to level terminal 3 and build a terminal 2 extension in its place instead.


I don't believe T3 was to be knocked down to be part of T2, rather to be linked to T5 so OW were all under one roof.
T1 is slowly being levelled for the T2 expansion, which would make it as large as the expanded T5 when finished.
In any case T3 is on the other side of the inner ring road so combining with T2 would make a logistical and construction mess. It would actually be easier to link T3 with T5 once the fuel silos are moved.


When Heathrow Airport Ltd update their plans for the third runway (yes, I know...), they usually publish an updated plan for the whole airport. See here for what may be the current plan:

https://www.heathrowexpansion.com/expan ... g-process/

The plan shows what HAL would like to do with the central area. With no third runway, this may change, but it gives a clue to their thinking.
Terminal 3 will be demolished. Terminal 2 will be expanded on to part of the Terminal 1 site. New satellites will be built on the site of Terminal 3. I've been told that these will be connected by train to both Terminal 5 and Terminal 2.
Ever since childhood, when I lived within sight of London Airport, I have seldom seen a plane go by and not wished I was on it.”
With apologies to Paul Theroux - ‘The Great Railway Bazaar’
 
BealineV953
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:13 pm

Lofty wrote:
My understanding is a move of other flights into T5 has a IT issue.

LHR T5 has only BA systems, for other airlines they would need access to multi user sets, this would mean a complete hardware change of all PCs.


You are correct, T5 has only BA (Amadeus / Fly) IT systems. There are no so called 'common user' check-in terminals at T5.
Iberia services ex-T5 operate as 'BA, operated by Iberia'.
For other oneworld airlines to operate from T5, the airline would have to be comfortable with adopting the same approach (eg BA, operated by AA) or 'common user' systems will have to be rolled out.
Ever since childhood, when I lived within sight of London Airport, I have seldom seen a plane go by and not wished I was on it.”
With apologies to Paul Theroux - ‘The Great Railway Bazaar’
 
BealineV953
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:19 pm

DTVG wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Maybe Heathrow Airport should complete the T2A building so that all airlines can use T2 and T5 in the foreseeable future. In the same time they can rebuild T3. The best time to do it before the passenger number go back to 60-70 millions mark.


Good luck, by that time they will still be struggling to get a permit.


Development work within the existing airport boundary is relatively straightforward to get planning permission for, especially if you are replacing an existing Terminal.
Ever since childhood, when I lived within sight of London Airport, I have seldom seen a plane go by and not wished I was on it.”
With apologies to Paul Theroux - ‘The Great Railway Bazaar’
 
BealineV953
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:25 pm

LAXintl wrote:
AA Vasu Raja stated last year that AA was planning on moving into T5

viewtopic.php?t=1427813


I believe that this was to be JFK only, at least to start with. BA was to move flights to T3 to make gates available at T5. BA and AA would then be co-located at both LHR and JFK. Other routes would follow as and when space became available at T5.
Happy to be corrected if I'm out of date on this.
Ever since childhood, when I lived within sight of London Airport, I have seldom seen a plane go by and not wished I was on it.”
With apologies to Paul Theroux - ‘The Great Railway Bazaar’
 
metroline2006
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:20 pm

With current issue T5 will be accessible but once levels return closer to pre 2020 levels then not so. The remote stands (Not ideal) could be used for bused departures, Stands 572,3,5,6,581,2,3,590,1,2,4,5,6 by the fire station with is 13 stands iirc all can hold 747,777 and some can hold A380's looking at google maps there is space to build a temporary building on the planned site for a possible T5D. as well as non-jetty T5 stands 531,541.551,558,567,568 Again not ideal but will increase T5 by 19 gates. Now the issue will be to allocate an area to handle 19 gates of passengers waiting to board. After the opening of T4 yet another Great British design which was far to small before being opened British Airways used Remote cargo stands and split operations between T4 and T1 in the end just prior to T5 becoming a reality BA moved a few Long Haul Departures to T1 as well. I've departed T1 heading to LAX. So if the BAA could build a temporary terminal building around the fire station area then it could work. Again far from ideal but plausible one day BAA will learn when building a Terminal to make it bigger than the needs 10 years before opening. With plenty of aircraft repositioning as well i might add.
 
jfk777
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Re: Rumor: All OW carriers to move T5 LHR

Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:31 pm

Whatever faults Terminal 3 has AA should stay there since Business and First Class passengers can use the Cathay Pacific, Qantas or BA lounges.

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