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blooc350
Topic Author
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:10 pm

Private Aviation after COVID

Wed May 20, 2020 5:40 pm

Interesting read about how private aviation companies like NetJets and FlexJet will come out stronger after COVID. There will be more wealthy people choosing to fly private over commercial due to fear of being in a confined space with strangers.

https://www-forbes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.forbes.com/sites/douggollan/2020/05/17/60-days-that-changed-how-we-think-about-private-jets/amp/?fbclid=IwAR0PZuuv71L4O9weGuHd9OpHRKROU4Zwo91okCY7WzpMpU7RuN-2TifIIDM
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2536
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Wed May 20, 2020 7:02 pm

Yes and no. You'll see more bookings from the uber-rich folks who can afford it all the time, but I don't think it'll be as much as they are predicting...economic downturn and all.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4809
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Wed May 20, 2020 10:03 pm

Why rich ppl will have the vaccine first.
 
oldJoe
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:04 pm

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Wed May 20, 2020 10:22 pm

blooc350 wrote:
Interesting read about how private aviation companies like NetJets and FlexJet will come out stronger after COVID. There will be more wealthy people choosing to fly private over commercial due to fear of being in a confined space with strangers.

https://www-forbes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.forbes.com/sites/douggollan/2020/05/17/60-days-that-changed-how-we-think-about-private-jets/amp/?fbclid=IwAR0PZuuv71L4O9weGuHd9OpHRKROU4Zwo91okCY7WzpMpU7RuN-2TifIIDM


Is the crew in front of you are friends or are they strangers ? Is the aircraft clean at all ?
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15121
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Wed May 20, 2020 10:27 pm

Some companies have already existing rules for decades that CEO's, other top executives have to travel by company owned or leased jets for security reasons, even for family/personal travel. There could be a slight bump up as restrictions are relaxed, but international travel will be very restrictive for well into 2021 and the public and shareholder's view of executives traveling by company/private jet will be very much watched, especially companies that laid off 100 or 1000's of workers or had some die from contacting Covid-19 at their workplaces.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4809
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Wed May 20, 2020 10:36 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Some companies have already existing rules for decades that CEO's, other top executives have to travel by company owned or leased jets for security reasons, even for family/personal travel. There could be a slight bump up as restrictions are relaxed, but international travel will be very restrictive for well into 2021 and the public and shareholder's view of executives traveling by company/private jet will be very much watched, especially companies that laid off 100 or 1000's of workers or had some die from contacting Covid-19 at their workplaces.

Lmfao so a ceo passes a rule saying the company has to buy him a private jet for serviront reasons. Ok bud.
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3441
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Wed May 20, 2020 11:13 pm

32andBelow wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Some companies have already existing rules for decades that CEO's, other top executives have to travel by company owned or leased jets for security reasons, even for family/personal travel. There could be a slight bump up as restrictions are relaxed, but international travel will be very restrictive for well into 2021 and the public and shareholder's view of executives traveling by company/private jet will be very much watched, especially companies that laid off 100 or 1000's of workers or had some die from contacting Covid-19 at their workplaces.

Lmfao so a ceo passes a rule saying the company has to buy him a private jet for serviront reasons. Ok bud.

It’s the Board of Directors and it’s a lot more common than you’d think.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4809
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Wed May 20, 2020 11:26 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Some companies have already existing rules for decades that CEO's, other top executives have to travel by company owned or leased jets for security reasons, even for family/personal travel. There could be a slight bump up as restrictions are relaxed, but international travel will be very restrictive for well into 2021 and the public and shareholder's view of executives traveling by company/private jet will be very much watched, especially companies that laid off 100 or 1000's of workers or had some die from contacting Covid-19 at their workplaces.

Lmfao so a ceo passes a rule saying the company has to buy him a private jet for serviront reasons. Ok bud.

It’s the Board of Directors and it’s a lot more common than you’d think.

Yah it’s just rich people paying themselves more instead of paying their employees
 
CitX92
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:47 pm

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Wed May 20, 2020 11:33 pm

Hello first time poster long time reader.

The predictions from a lot of experts is that at least domestically traffic will go back to normal by the end of Summer. In the case of my work we only slowed down for about 2 weeks and now we seem to have forward bookings for June and July plus May has been close to normal. I have seen now a lot of new flyers that can afford flying private but never considered it before Covid 19.
Just my 2 cents.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5645
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Thu May 21, 2020 12:55 am

jetblueguy22 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Some companies have already existing rules for decades that CEO's, other top executives have to travel by company owned or leased jets for security reasons, even for family/personal travel. There could be a slight bump up as restrictions are relaxed, but international travel will be very restrictive for well into 2021 and the public and shareholder's view of executives traveling by company/private jet will be very much watched, especially companies that laid off 100 or 1000's of workers or had some die from contacting Covid-19 at their workplaces.

Lmfao so a ceo passes a rule saying the company has to buy him a private jet for serviront reasons. Ok bud.

It’s the Board of Directors and it’s a lot more common than you’d think.


True dat and the IRS questions them most of them. Personal travel is charged to the company officer, often a touchy subject and it’s audited.

But, a lot of the private jet business has gone to HNWIs who don’t answer to a BOD. Many have created departments that become profit centers. A very HNWI individual, not yet 30, just took delivery on a new jet. The likes of Bezos, Gates, Jobs own their planes, not Amazon, MS or Apple.
 
santi319
Posts: 1004
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Thu May 21, 2020 1:15 am

All the predictions that people dont want any sort of human contact anymore, home schooling, home office, no airline travel.

I predict quite the opposite, humans are like little kids you tell them they can’t do something and now they want it more.

The knee jerk reaction is also part of humans but sometimes (most) is way off...
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 782
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Thu May 21, 2020 3:01 am

CitX92 wrote:
Hello first time poster long time reader.

The predictions from a lot of experts is that at least domestically traffic will go back to normal by the end of Summer. In the case of my work we only slowed down for about 2 weeks and now we seem to have forward bookings for June and July plus May has been close to normal. I have seen now a lot of new flyers that can afford flying private but never considered it before Covid 19.
Just my 2 cents.

Every 135 in my area is flying every hour they can, and turning away bookings.
Just too much liability right now to allow a critical employee to fly cattle class.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 782
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Thu May 21, 2020 3:06 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Lmfao so a ceo passes a rule saying the company has to buy him a private jet for serviront reasons. Ok bud.

It’s the Board of Directors and it’s a lot more common than you’d think.


True dat and the IRS questions them most of them. Personal travel is charged to the company officer, often a touchy subject and it’s audited.

But, a lot of the private jet business has gone to HNWIs who don’t answer to a BOD. Many have created departments that become profit centers. A very HNWI individual, not yet 30, just took delivery on a new jet. The likes of Bezos, Gates, Jobs own their planes, not Amazon, MS or Apple.

Bingo...
And they are reimbursed expenses by the company. Also, many of these planes are Financially formed as an aircraft LLC, and leased to jet management firms for use by other people, when not needed by the owner. Crew payroll and maintenance are done by the leasing 135, who also collects a management fee from the owner. HIS jet is available anytime he wants it, with crew.
 
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SierraPacific
Posts: 432
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Thu May 21, 2020 3:16 am

From my cursory viewing being around Part 135 operations all day, I have never seen them busier than right now. One Part 135 charter Lear at my local airport has flown 4 legs a day for the past 2 weeks while Pre COVID it was lucky to fly 4 legs a week.

Covid has actually provided a valid reason to separate high-level company officers outside of convenience and time savings.
 
chrisair
Posts: 2141
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Fri May 22, 2020 12:18 am

I’ve looked at a jet card with Flexjet and EJA. Haven’t pulled the trigger, but it’s on the table. Before it was a nonstarter.
 
CitX92
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:47 pm

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Fri May 22, 2020 1:10 am

chrisair wrote:
I’ve looked at a jet card with Flexjet and EJA. Haven’t pulled the trigger, but it’s on the table. Before it was a nonstarter.


Jetcards are a waste of money, you are better buying empty legs when you need it instead of putting money aside for a Jetcard. You can even charter Flexjet aircraft without having to be a member and they are giving them away on cheap prices for charter.
 
blooc350
Topic Author
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Fri May 22, 2020 4:33 am

[
 
sadde
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:46 pm

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Fri May 22, 2020 4:42 am

I find it very hard to believe that business will increase to the degree some are predicting for us in 135. The Gulfstream I was flying has had 1 trip request since March. We used to fly weekly. On the margin, yes, we'll get a little more business from those that were on the bubble, but the VAST majority of those flying commercial up front can't afford to fly private on a regular basis. If they could they already would be, for liability reasons alone as some above have stated.
 
CitX92
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:47 pm

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Fri May 22, 2020 8:09 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
sadde wrote:
I find it very hard to believe that business will increase to the degree some are predicting for us in 135. The Gulfstream I was flying has had 1 trip request since March. We used to fly weekly. On the margin, yes, we'll get a little more business from those that were on the bubble, but the VAST majority of those flying commercial up front can't afford to fly private on a regular basis. If they could they already would be, for liability reasons alone as some above have stated.


Maybe the management company that sells charters on your aircraft is not doing a good job. We have not stop flying on our Citation X and Hawker 1000. For example we have flown practically every day this week and have about 20 hrs scheduled on the Citation X for next week. Prices came down for a few weeks but now it has being going back to normal pre Covid 19 levels and we have forward bookings all the way until October.
 
Lrockeagle
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:40 am

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Fri May 22, 2020 8:44 pm

sadde wrote:
I find it very hard to believe that business will increase to the degree some are predicting for us in 135. The Gulfstream I was flying has had 1 trip request since March. We used to fly weekly. On the margin, yes, we'll get a little more business from those that were on the bubble, but the VAST majority of those flying commercial up front can't afford to fly private on a regular basis. If they could they already would be, for liability reasons alone as some above have stated.

What are your typical routes on the G? If the answer is international, there’s your reason for decreased booking.
Lrockeagle
14 years ago

I got $20 says AA takes their 787's with GE powerplants. Just a hunch. Any takers?
 
sadde
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:46 pm

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Fri May 22, 2020 11:15 pm

Yeah, they're doing a terrible job lol. We're all laid off in fact, and I hear they're passing charters on to other operators. We flew mainly within the USA, sometimes to Mexico/Hawaii.
 
CitX92
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:47 pm

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Sat May 23, 2020 12:54 am

sadde wrote:
Yeah, they're doing a terrible job lol. We're all laid off in fact, and I hear they're passing charters on to other operators. We flew mainly within the USA, sometimes to Mexico/Hawaii.


Would be interested to know in PM who the 135 operator is. There is no need to be doing that as the market slowed down a little and became competitive but never stopped.
 
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smithbs
Posts: 462
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 6:09 pm

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Sat May 23, 2020 1:11 am

CitX92 wrote:
Hello first time poster long time reader.

The predictions from a lot of experts is that at least domestically traffic will go back to normal by the end of Summer. In the case of my work we only slowed down for about 2 weeks and now we seem to have forward bookings for June and July plus May has been close to normal. I have seen now a lot of new flyers that can afford flying private but never considered it before Covid 19.
Just my 2 cents.


Thanks for joining and for your input on this conversation!
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 19743
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Sat May 23, 2020 1:38 am

CitX92 wrote:
Hello first time poster long time reader.

The predictions from a lot of experts is that at least domestically traffic will go back to normal by the end of Summer. In the case of my work we only slowed down for about 2 weeks and now we seem to have forward bookings for June and July plus May has been close to normal. I have seen now a lot of new flyers that can afford flying private but never considered it before Covid 19.
Just my 2 cents.

What expert is predicting a recovery by end of summer? The most optimistic expert is Boyd at 80% by the end of the year:
https://www.wired.com/story/planes-flyi ... ery-tough/

IATA is expecting 2021 to be 21% below 2019, with 2019 levels in 2023:

https://www.breakingtravelnews.com/news ... -predicts/

Some predicting 5 years:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverwyma ... years/amp/

Please post a link as I haven't seen any rational analysis predicting as fast of a recovery as you noted.

I personally predict a decline for 3 to 5 years.

If I could fly private, I would.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
CitX92
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:47 pm

Re: Private Aviation after COVID

Sat May 23, 2020 4:07 am

lightsaber wrote:
CitX92 wrote:
Hello first time poster long time reader.

The predictions from a lot of experts is that at least domestically traffic will go back to normal by the end of Summer. In the case of my work we only slowed down for about 2 weeks and now we seem to have forward bookings for June and July plus May has been close to normal. I have seen now a lot of new flyers that can afford flying private but never considered it before Covid 19.
Just my 2 cents.

What expert is predicting a recovery by end of summer? The most optimistic expert is Boyd at 80% by the end of the year:
https://www.wired.com/story/planes-flyi ... ery-tough/

IATA is expecting 2021 to be 21% below 2019, with 2019 levels in 2023:

https://www.breakingtravelnews.com/news ... -predicts/

Some predicting 5 years:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverwyma ... years/amp/

Please post a link as I haven't seen any rational analysis predicting as fast of a recovery as you noted.

I personally predict a decline for 3 to 5 years.

If I could fly private, I would.

Lightsaber



Your articles talk about airline traffic and that’s not the same as Part 135 or Private Aviation. Also the TSA numbers do not matter as the people that fly on private jets do not pass thru a TSA checkpoint. Yes airline traffic will be slow to recover but all the executives, CEO’s and people with money will choose to fly continue to fly private plus add the new ones that never did before but now see it as a necessity for protection.

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