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xiaotung
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:32 pm

Who are really the people travelling between the 2 countries anyway? China is not allowing foreign citizens to enter and nobody wants to go to the States at the moment, either. I can't see airlines care that much other than losing the cargo space under the belly.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Trump Admin to bar Chinese Airlines from flying to US

Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:33 pm

eurotrader85 wrote:
Good news for CX as well. HKG just opening up for transit again and they could do with the pax, all be it small atm.

I read this morning that Hong Kong, and by extension can maybe assume China as well, is looking to open up its borders to foreign visitors (other than between Hong Kong, Macau, Mainland China and Taiwan) on September 18th, while 7th July is being touted by Hong Kong to open up to each other (Taiwan will of course have its own view). If that's true the dearth of trans pacific traffic will be brutal.


HKG transits exclude mainland China

https://www.thejakartapost.com/travel/2 ... ights.html
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:00 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Sour grapes for the U.S. They are now upset because China few days ago allowed 8 nations to resume service based on health status. U.S. was not one of them.

The CAAC baseline service requirement of March 12 still stands, and with the U.S. which had zero passenger flights to China at the time, so there is no baseline schedule to work up from when resuming service.


To me, the problem is that the CAAC baseline service requirement of March 12 is totally arbitrary. Am I missing some basis for it?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:03 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
To me, the problem is that the CAAC baseline service requirement of March 12 is totally arbitrary. Am I missing some basis for it?


Back in March China reduced the total number of international flights by its own airlines and foreign carriers for obvious health reasons.

The means to determine what fraction of routes could operate at the time was based on an airline's intended schedule when the decree was issued. The same schedule baseline is also now being used to determine how airlines can spool international services back up.

In the case of the U.S, the US3 had already discontinued their China flights by March 12th, so there is no timetable and baseline schedule to work from as China air service expands now.

From China's view they are being transparent and applying the same rule for every nation during this special period. Until there is a total medical green light for travel, China will continue to allow service for Chinese and foreign airline based on March schedules.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:07 pm

xiaotung wrote:
Who are really the people travelling between the 2 countries anyway? China is not allowing foreign citizens to enter and nobody wants to go to the States at the moment, either. I can't see airlines care that much other than losing the cargo space under the belly.


There is a huge demand and current economy airfares in many thousands of dollars. Flights are packed and even Chinese airlines are very anxious to expand U.S. frequencies.

There is so much demand Air France for example every week carries 30-50 passengers from LAX to PVG via CDG !
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:11 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
To me, the problem is that the CAAC baseline service requirement of March 12 is totally arbitrary. Am I missing some basis for it?


Back in March China reduced the total number of international flights by its own airlines and foreign carriers for obvious health reasons.

The means to determine what fraction of routes could operate at the time was based on an airline's intended schedule when the decree was issued. The same schedule baseline is also now being used to determine how airlines can spool international services back up.

In the case of the U.S, the US3 had already discontinued their China flights by March 12th, so there is no timetable and baseline schedule to work from as China air service expands now.

From China's view they are being transparent and applying the same rule for every nation during this special period. Until there is a total medical green light for travel, China will continue to allow service for Chinese and foreign airline based on March schedules.


Transparency is good. But penalizing US carriers for acting responsibly more quickly than the carriers from other nations isn't.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:36 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
To me, the problem is that the CAAC baseline service requirement of March 12 is totally arbitrary. Am I missing some basis for it?


Back in March China reduced the total number of international flights by its own airlines and foreign carriers for obvious health reasons.

The means to determine what fraction of routes could operate at the time was based on an airline's intended schedule when the decree was issued. The same schedule baseline is also now being used to determine how airlines can spool international services back up.

In the case of the U.S, the US3 had already discontinued their China flights by March 12th, so there is no timetable and baseline schedule to work from as China air service expands now.

From China's view they are being transparent and applying the same rule for every nation during this special period. Until there is a total medical green light for travel, China will continue to allow service for Chinese and foreign airline based on March schedules.


China’s selective use of “transparency” is entertaining to say the least. The world health community could have used more of it back in December and January.

Why was March 12th used? Where’s the science behind this rule?
 
nname
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:55 pm

LAXintl wrote:
The CAAC baseline service requirement of March 12 still stands, and with the U.S. which had zero passenger flights to China at the time, so there is no baseline schedule to work up from when resuming service.

I think that requirement no longer stands. AC will operate 1x weekly YVR-PVG starting in a few days. 3U applied CTU-HGH-LAX after receive approval from the Chinese authority. Both routes did not run on Mar 12.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:14 pm

Exactly. Next move is that China will forbid their airlines from purchasing Boeing aircraft. Good news for Airbus, bad news for the EU, which refuses to play hardball with China.


That's assuming that Airbus has the delivery slots and can produce quickly. Given the current economic climate, they may not be able to. Time will tell...
 
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mercure1
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:53 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
[Why was March 12th used? Where’s the science behind this rule?


Science :confused: :confused:

The date is based on when the rule was made in March.

nname wrote:
I think that requirement no longer stands. AC will operate 1x weekly YVR-PVG starting in a few days. 3U applied CTU-HGH-LAX after receive approval from the Chinese authority. Both routes did not run on Mar 12.


Nothing consistent listed in GDS for AC. It seems to be a one-off flight on June 13th - more like a charter or special repatriation flight.

For Sichuan, they applied for a waiver exemption that was denied according to another website.
mercure f-wtcc
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:29 pm

Why was the rule made in such a way which made March 12th so special? Again, picking a certain flight schedule period out of hat doesn't feel like it's based on anything but the whim of politicians. And, yes, I know there's politics on both side of this but we can't pretend the Chinese are doing something sound here like some are implying when they're not.

In the end, I would hope this nonsense could be resolved sooner than later.
Last edited by izbtmnhd on Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
tphuang
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:38 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
Why was the rule made in such a way which made March 12th so special? Again, picking a certain flight schedule day out of hat doesn't feel like it's based on anything but the whim of politicians. And, yes, I know there's politics on both side of this but we can't pretend the Chinese are doing something sound here like some are implying when they're not.


I think by then, the China had flattened its curve whereas Western countries were just starting to have issues. March 11th was also when US put the travel Ban on EU countries. So quite a lot of things happened that week which would've led to every country imposing more restrictive air travel.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:45 pm

tphuang wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
Why was the rule made in such a way which made March 12th so special? Again, picking a certain flight schedule day out of hat doesn't feel like it's based on anything but the whim of politicians. And, yes, I know there's politics on both side of this but we can't pretend the Chinese are doing something sound here like some are implying when they're not.


I think by then, the China had flattened its curve whereas Western countries were just starting to have issues. March 11th was also when US put the travel Ban on EU countries. So quite a lot of things happened that week which would've led to every country imposing more restrictive air travel.


I see your point but China's COVID-19 case data is mostly garbage. We'll never actually know when they flattened the curve.

The CAAC can set up whatever rule they want but they're not being an honest actor here, as usual.
 
tphuang
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:56 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
tphuang wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
Why was the rule made in such a way which made March 12th so special? Again, picking a certain flight schedule day out of hat doesn't feel like it's based on anything but the whim of politicians. And, yes, I know there's politics on both side of this but we can't pretend the Chinese are doing something sound here like some are implying when they're not.


I think by then, the China had flattened its curve whereas Western countries were just starting to have issues. March 11th was also when US put the travel Ban on EU countries. So quite a lot of things happened that week which would've led to every country imposing more restrictive air travel.


I see your point but China's COVID-19 case data is mostly garbage. We'll never actually know when they flattened the curve.

The CAAC can set up whatever rule they want but they're not being an honest actor here, as usual.


I can tell you based on actually knowing people living in different parts of China that COVID cases basically died down by then. The level of control they put in to contain this in China is much more severe than anything I had to deal with in NY/NJ.

They've been pretty paranoid about a second wave and stopped all foreigners at one point from entering in the country. More recently, it has been relaxing travel, but only with certain approved countries like south korea, singapore and Germany that has COVID under control. And even then, you have to get tested before you go and still have to go through 2-weeks quarantine once you land.

There is a bigger issue here where Americans are not allowed into China right now due to the foreign travel ban, so it's been a problem for American businesses looking to restart production or sell products inside China. I think there is more at play here than just China not allowing UA/DL to fly there.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:15 pm

tphuang wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
tphuang wrote:

I think by then, the China had flattened its curve whereas Western countries were just starting to have issues. March 11th was also when US put the travel Ban on EU countries. So quite a lot of things happened that week which would've led to every country imposing more restrictive air travel.


I see your point but China's COVID-19 case data is mostly garbage. We'll never actually know when they flattened the curve.

The CAAC can set up whatever rule they want but they're not being an honest actor here, as usual.


I can tell you based on actually knowing people living in different parts of China that COVID cases basically died down by then. The level of control they put in to contain this in China is much more severe than anything I had to deal with in NY/NJ.

They've been pretty paranoid about a second wave and stopped all foreigners at one point from entering in the country. More recently, it has been relaxing travel, but only with certain approved countries like south korea, singapore and Germany that has COVID under control. And even then, you have to get tested before you go and still have to go through 2-weeks quarantine once you land.

There is a bigger issue here where Americans are not allowed into China right now due to the foreign travel ban, so it's been a problem for American businesses looking to restart production or sell products inside China. I think there is more at play here than just China not allowing UA/DL to fly there.


I know people who live in China too. Nobody actually believed what the government was telling them, especially as you worked your way closer to Wuhan. In March, a good friend sent me shots of factories which were "operating" with their lights on and no workers and he was in Harbin, far away from Wuhan.

I don't even know it's under control there now. China is the land of pretend, especially when presented with a crisis. Mind you, Chinese authorities weren't paranoid when they let everyone travel on the Lunar New Year but knew what was up.

This being said, I agree on both sides playing politics here and it hurts travelers in the process.
 
tphuang
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:32 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
tphuang wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:

I see your point but China's COVID-19 case data is mostly garbage. We'll never actually know when they flattened the curve.

The CAAC can set up whatever rule they want but they're not being an honest actor here, as usual.


I can tell you based on actually knowing people living in different parts of China that COVID cases basically died down by then. The level of control they put in to contain this in China is much more severe than anything I had to deal with in NY/NJ.

They've been pretty paranoid about a second wave and stopped all foreigners at one point from entering in the country. More recently, it has been relaxing travel, but only with certain approved countries like south korea, singapore and Germany that has COVID under control. And even then, you have to get tested before you go and still have to go through 2-weeks quarantine once you land.

There is a bigger issue here where Americans are not allowed into China right now due to the foreign travel ban, so it's been a problem for American businesses looking to restart production or sell products inside China. I think there is more at play here than just China not allowing UA/DL to fly there.


I know people who live in China too. Nobody actually believed what the government was telling them, especially as you worked your way closer to Wuhan. In March, a good friend sent me shots of factories which were "operating" with their lights on and no workers and he was in Harbin, far away from Wuhan.

I don't even know it's under control there now. China is the land of pretend, especially when presented with a crisis.


Nobody believes in gov't, but if nobody around them are getting sick, then they can see for themselves it's not a problem anymore.

You can't hide a bunch of people coming into hospitals with COVID symtoms.

And Harbin is about the only place in China right now under lockdown because it's right next to Russia.

There is a reason why by March, Flights from LAX to China were filled on the way over and completely empty on the way back. Which is reverse of what it was 2 months before that.

there are plenty of articles by Western newspaper about live returning to some form of normalcy in China. Everyone can't be lying about this at the same time.
 
nname
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:37 pm

mercure1 wrote:
nname wrote:
I think that requirement no longer stands. AC will operate 1x weekly YVR-PVG starting in a few days. 3U applied CTU-HGH-LAX after receive approval from the Chinese authority. Both routes did not run on Mar 12.


Nothing consistent listed in GDS for AC. It seems to be a one-off flight on June 13th - more like a charter or special repatriation flight.

For Sichuan, they applied for a waiver exemption that was denied according to another website.


Flight numbers had been changed to AC21/22 for June flights, to be operated with 450-seats 77W.

Return flights from PVG on June 7, 14 was bookable a few days ago, but they're full now.

Flights on 21, 28 are still bookable right now with very limited seats left.

And the exemption for 3U was for the US side? They wouldn't submit application to US DoT if it was not already approved from the Chinese side?
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:47 pm

tphuang wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
tphuang wrote:

I can tell you based on actually knowing people living in different parts of China that COVID cases basically died down by then. The level of control they put in to contain this in China is much more severe than anything I had to deal with in NY/NJ.

They've been pretty paranoid about a second wave and stopped all foreigners at one point from entering in the country. More recently, it has been relaxing travel, but only with certain approved countries like south korea, singapore and Germany that has COVID under control. And even then, you have to get tested before you go and still have to go through 2-weeks quarantine once you land.

There is a bigger issue here where Americans are not allowed into China right now due to the foreign travel ban, so it's been a problem for American businesses looking to restart production or sell products inside China. I think there is more at play here than just China not allowing UA/DL to fly there.


I know people who live in China too. Nobody actually believed what the government was telling them, especially as you worked your way closer to Wuhan. In March, a good friend sent me shots of factories which were "operating" with their lights on and no workers and he was in Harbin, far away from Wuhan.

I don't even know it's under control there now. China is the land of pretend, especially when presented with a crisis.


Nobody believes in gov't, but if nobody around them are getting sick, then they can see for themselves it's not a problem anymore.

You can't hide a bunch of people coming into hospitals with COVID symtoms.

And Harbin is about the only place in China right now under lockdown because it's right next to Russia.

There is a reason why by March, Flights from LAX to China were filled on the way over and completely empty on the way back. Which is reverse of what it was 2 months before that.

there are plenty of articles by Western newspaper about live returning to some form of normalcy in China. Everyone can't be lying about this at the same time.


I was talking about Harbin in March, not now.

The US has 20000 cases daily and yet it's hospitals aren't overwhelmed and in most places you wouldn't know it unless you visited certain nursing homes. So not seeing sick people isn't a great metric for judging pandemic control or whether there's honesty with statistics. China could have 60000 cases daily spread throughout the country and keep the Apple stores open in Shanghai and Beijing. If you don't test, you don't know and China doesn't release testing data.

Again, I don't want to drift away from the subject at hand so I'll stop.
Last edited by izbtmnhd on Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Vicenza
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:50 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
tphuang wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:

I see your point but China's COVID-19 case data is mostly garbage. We'll never actually know when they flattened the curve.

The CAAC can set up whatever rule they want but they're not being an honest actor here, as usual.


I can tell you based on actually knowing people living in different parts of China that COVID cases basically died down by then. The level of control they put in to contain this in China is much more severe than anything I had to deal with in NY/NJ.

They've been pretty paranoid about a second wave and stopped all foreigners at one point from entering in the country. More recently, it has been relaxing travel, but only with certain approved countries like south korea, singapore and Germany that has COVID under control. And even then, you have to get tested before you go and still have to go through 2-weeks quarantine once you land.

There is a bigger issue here where Americans are not allowed into China right now due to the foreign travel ban, so it's been a problem for American businesses looking to restart production or sell products inside China. I think there is more at play here than just China not allowing UA/DL to fly there.



I know people who live in China too. Nobody actually believed what the government was telling them, especially as you worked your way closer to Wuhan. In March, a good friend sent me shots of factories which were "operating" with their lights on and no workers and he was in Harbin, far away from Wuhan.

I don't even know it's under control there now. China is the land of pretend, especially when presented with a crisis. Mind you, Chinese authorities weren't paranoid when they let everyone travel on the Lunar New Year but knew what was up.

This being said, I agree on both sides playing politics here and it hurts travelers in the process.


With respect, it seems to me that every aspect of your two posts is based on nothing but guesswork and your own opinion which you are passing off as being definitive. Have you any factual references to substantiate what you state? The current state of China restrictions apply to every airline from any country (including China itself......one flight per week to/from China to any given country. It would thus seem that, as is usual, the US wants special treatment despite them having by far the largest rates of infections and fatalities in the worldwide. With regards to the current unprecedented global situation I would put the US as being the "land of pretend" when it comes to having managed this crisis.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:54 pm

Vicenza wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
tphuang wrote:

I can tell you based on actually knowing people living in different parts of China that COVID cases basically died down by then. The level of control they put in to contain this in China is much more severe than anything I had to deal with in NY/NJ.

They've been pretty paranoid about a second wave and stopped all foreigners at one point from entering in the country. More recently, it has been relaxing travel, but only with certain approved countries like south korea, singapore and Germany that has COVID under control. And even then, you have to get tested before you go and still have to go through 2-weeks quarantine once you land.

There is a bigger issue here where Americans are not allowed into China right now due to the foreign travel ban, so it's been a problem for American businesses looking to restart production or sell products inside China. I think there is more at play here than just China not allowing UA/DL to fly there.



I know people who live in China too. Nobody actually believed what the government was telling them, especially as you worked your way closer to Wuhan. In March, a good friend sent me shots of factories which were "operating" with their lights on and no workers and he was in Harbin, far away from Wuhan.

I don't even know it's under control there now. China is the land of pretend, especially when presented with a crisis. Mind you, Chinese authorities weren't paranoid when they let everyone travel on the Lunar New Year but knew what was up.

This being said, I agree on both sides playing politics here and it hurts travelers in the process.


With respect, it seems to me that every aspect of your two posts is based on nothing but guesswork and your own opinion which you are passing off as being definitive. Have you any factual references to substantiate what you state? The current state of China restrictions apply to every airline from any country (including China itself......one flight per week to/from China to any given country. It would thus seem that, as is usual, the US wants special treatment despite them having by far the largest rates of infections and fatalities in the worldwide. With regards to the current unprecedented global situation I would put the US as being the "land of pretend" when it comes to having managed this crisis.


With respect, what do I have to prove to ask why March 12th has to be used as a baseline? Also, the US doesn't have the highest rate of fatalities, they have the highest amount. There's a difference.
 
jayunited
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:29 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Sour grapes for the U.S. They are now upset because China few days ago allowed 8 nations to resume service based on health status. U.S. was not one of them.

The CAAC baseline service requirement of March 12 still stands, and with the U.S. which had zero passenger flights to China at the time, so there is no baseline schedule to work up from when resuming service.



So in your opinion China's decision was based 100% on a nations health status, all other political considerations were not factored in?

If you truly believe it then why are Chinese carrier still flying to the US? If China's decision is based solely on a nations head status in order to reduce the risk the Chinese government should demand all Chinese carriers temporarily suspend service to the US in order to reduce the risk to China's population. But that is not what we have, what we have is China wants it both ways, they want to continue to block US carriers from China but they want Chinese carriers to continue service to the US. The virus can just as easily be transported on UA/DL or MU/CA.

I think the US made the right decision. If China wants to continue to deny US carriers request to resume passenger service then the US has every right to deny China access to the US. At the end of the day this decision has nothing to do with a nations health status it has everything to do with the current political climate and US airlines were being used as pawns.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:44 pm

jayunited wrote:
So in your opinion, China's decision was based 100% on a nations health status, all other political considerations were not factored in?


The March 12 baseline has been applied to all nations, so I don't see an issue with it. For example, Air France had been able to continue to operate to PVG, but not Lufthansa as it had already discontinued its China flying by March 12th.

For the 8 "green-channel" nations (Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Germany, UK, Italy, France and Switzerland) which received approval to add service to China last week, the government claims are based on lower traveler risk. I am not an expert to determine what went into that decision. But on the face if it, since I have Chinese airline contacts, I know they are desperate to add additional U.S. frequencies due to strong underlying demand, so any decision that limits traffic between nations hurts their own airlines as well.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jayunited
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:03 pm

LAXintl wrote:
jayunited wrote:
So in your opinion, China's decision was based 100% on a nations health status, all other political considerations were not factored in?


The March 12 baseline has been applied to all nations, so I don't see an issue with it. For example, Air France had been able to continue to operate to PVG, but not Lufthansa as it had already discontinued its China flying by March 12th.

For the 8 "green-channel" nations (Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Germany, UK, Italy, France and Switzerland) which received approval to add service to China last week, the government claims are based on lower traveler risk. I am not an expert to determine what went into that decision. But on the face if it, since I have Chinese airline contacts, I know they are desperate to add additional U.S. frequencies due to strong underlying demand, so any decision that limits traffic between nations hurts their own airlines as well.



However as you well know on March 12th the Chinese governments stance was their airlines had to continue flying all routes. Chinese carriers were required to maintain service because their government wanted to save face and was against any type of travel ban. Chinese carriers did not receive permission to reduce service until March 25th. The order the CAAC passed allows for carriers to resume flights but they can not exceed the number of flights and destinations they served on March 12th. What that order translates into is simply this Chinese carriers can resume their full schedule to (for instance) the US at any time without CAAC approval. However since US carriers had suspended all service in February they are effectively barred from reentering China without CAAC approval because there were no flight on US carriers on March 12th.

Without this ruling from the DOT, Chinese carrier would basically have free rein on China-US-China routes while the CAAC could continue to effectively block US carriers from resuming US-China-US flights all the while claiming it is for health reasons. If the Chinese want us to believe they are blocking US carriers for health reasons then they should also demand their carriers cease operations to the US as well. This virus does not discriminate between a US carrier and a Chinese carrier.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:41 am

sincx wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
This will end only one way: A Total Ban on Chinese carriers flying to the US.


that's the opposite of what the US government is asking for--the US government is very reasonably asking for US carriers to be treated similarly to Chinese carriers by China

right now Chinese carriers can each fly 1 weekly flight to/from the US (at very high fares), for about 6 flights per week, but US carriers have 0 flights

i think the most likely resolution is that UA, DL, and AA will be given the same number of weekly flights as the Chinese carriers have now, so 2 flights per week for each


Trump administration to bar Chinese passenger carriers from flying to U.S.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN23A248


I guess my crystal ball was functional well.
 
Ishrion
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China Relaxes Foreign Airline Ban; Delta/United Allowed to Resume

Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:22 am

The relaxed restrictions allow foreign airlines that suspended ops before March 12 to resume flights to China starting June 8, with conditions of course.

Each foreign airline can choose 1 route in 1 country with 1x weekly flight.

- If no positive COVID-19 case on this flight for 3 weeks, airline can increase freq to 2/week
- If positive case reaches 5, 1 week ban.
- If positive case reaches 10, 4 weeks ban

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... 3B081?il=0
https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/statu ... 9708296193
 
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enilria
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Re: China Relaxes Foreign Airline Ban; Delta/United Allowed to Resume

Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:25 am

This would require the US crew to stay in China for 7 days so it is a non-starter I’m sure.
 
andrewying
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Re: China Relaxes Foreign Airline Ban; Delta/United Allowed to Resume

Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:28 am

You can do a stop at ICN and replace the crew.
 
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Re: China Relaxes Foreign Airline Ban; Delta/United Allowed to Resume

Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:56 am

enilria wrote:
This would require the US crew to stay in China for 7 days so it is a non-starter I’m sure.


What if the plane stay on the ground for a day, then fly back with the same crew?

This is what the Chinese airlines do with this 1x weekly restriction.
 
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:21 am

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... 3B081?il=0

Effective June 8th qualifying foreign carriers currently barred from operating flights to mainland China will be allowed once-per-week flight.

Also starting from Monday, CAAC will implement a reward and penalty policy. If an airline, operating China-bound flights, records zero COVID19 positive passengers for three consecutive weeks, the airline will be allowed to start one more weekly flight to China. If they bring in sick passengers, they may lose their authority.
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:28 am

So... did Delta and United already remove flights to China for June? Is there even a point in resuming flights this month if they did?
 
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:48 am

Someone like United still has 4-5+daily flights to China carrying cargo so if they want to make a one a week a passenger service, probably not too difficult/costly to achieve.
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:48 am

LAXintl wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-airlines-caac/china-eases-flight-curbs-after-u-s-order-targeting-chinese-carriers-idUSKBN23B081?il=0

Effective June 8th qualifying foreign carriers currently barred from operating flights to mainland China will be allowed once-per-week flight.

Also starting from Monday, CAAC will implement a reward and penalty policy. If an airline, operating China-bound flights, records zero COVID19 positive passengers for three consecutive weeks, the airline will be allowed to start one more weekly flight to China. If they bring in sick passengers, they may lose their authority.

The rule seems quite arbitary as China can report whatever random number of positive cases on whichever fights they want, especially when there's also the issue of asymptomatic cases doesn't count in China and the line between asymptomatic casrs and cases with mild symptoms is very fussy
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate.
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:16 am

tphuang wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
Why was the rule made in such a way which made March 12th so special? Again, picking a certain flight schedule day out of hat doesn't feel like it's based on anything but the whim of politicians. And, yes, I know there's politics on both side of this but we can't pretend the Chinese are doing something sound here like some are implying when they're not.


I think by then, the China had flattened its curve whereas Western countries were just starting to have issues. March 11th was also when US put the travel Ban on EU countries. So quite a lot of things happened that week which would've led to every country imposing more restrictive air travel.

In other words, you are saying that March 11 was when the international traffic into/out of China was about the lowest as the pandemic in China was still severe even according to official data and most foreign airlines have axed their service accordingly, unlike Chinese airlines.
That made their action appears to be quite intentional
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tphuang
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:24 am

c933103 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
Why was the rule made in such a way which made March 12th so special? Again, picking a certain flight schedule day out of hat doesn't feel like it's based on anything but the whim of politicians. And, yes, I know there's politics on both side of this but we can't pretend the Chinese are doing something sound here like some are implying when they're not.


I think by then, the China had flattened its curve whereas Western countries were just starting to have issues. March 11th was also when US put the travel Ban on EU countries. So quite a lot of things happened that week which would've led to every country imposing more restrictive air travel.

In other words, you are saying that March 11 was when the international traffic into/out of China was about the lowest as the pandemic in China was still severe even according to official data and most foreign airlines have axed their service accordingly, unlike Chinese airlines.
That made their action appears to be quite intentional


Nope, I'm saying if you looked at the trajectory of COVID at that time, it made a lot of sense for China to reduce traffic into the country at around that time. Before that, it was in other country's incentive to reduce traffic to China. At around time, China had flattened the curve while other countries were experiencing exponential growth, so it made sense for China to do it.

The reality is that Chinese carrier capacities have also been kept artificially low (beneath real demand) due to this policy. If this policy gets loosened, then the Chinese carriers would swarmed the market with capacity and pretty much kill the yield to Asia.

DL is telling the market that Asia (especially Korea) demand is recovering really good. Well, if Chinese carriers start to dump capacity into the market again, that yield to Asia is going to be dumpster fire again.
 
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:21 pm

tphuang wrote:
Nope, I'm saying if you looked at the trajectory of COVID at that time, it made a lot of sense for China to reduce traffic into the country at around that time. Before that, it was in other country's incentive to reduce traffic to China. At around time, China had flattened the curve while other countries were experiencing exponential growth, so it made sense for China to do it.

The reality is that Chinese carrier capacities have also been kept artificially low (beneath real demand) due to this policy. If this policy gets loosened, then the Chinese carriers would swarmed the market with capacity and pretty much kill the yield to Asia.

DL is telling the market that Asia (especially Korea) demand is recovering really good. Well, if Chinese carriers start to dump capacity into the market again, that yield to Asia is going to be dumpster fire again.


I don't think the DOT really cares about yield when the truth is at some point the US-Chinese market will once again become a dumpster fire. The problem is the CAAC ruling and the March 12th date. A Reuters article written on May 22nd really captures the foundation of the problem and why the DOT felt it necessary to step in and essentially defend both DL and UA. Below are four paragraphs from the article.

"The number of weekly scheduled combination flights operated between the two countries by U.S and Chinese carriers fell from 325 in January to 20, by just the four Chinese carriers, in mid-February, before the carriers increased them to 34 in mid-March, the U.S. order said.

The CAAC in late March said Chinese airlines could maintain just one weekly passenger flight on one route to any given country and that carriers could fly no more than the number of flights they were flying on March 12, according to the U.S. order.

But because U.S. passenger airlines had stopped all flights by March 12, the CAAC notice “effectively precludes U.S. carriers from reinstating scheduled passenger flights to China,” the department said.

CAAC told the U.S. government during a May 14 call that China is considering removing the March 12 schedule pre-condition but the “restriction to once-weekly service on one route to China would remain in place,” the order said."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN22Z04W

The sticking point for the DOT in my opinion is simply this the CAAC's order states any carrier could fly no more than the number of flights they were flying on March 12th. This is the problem because that sentence right there allows Chinese carriers to resume flights to the US just as long as they don't exceed the number of flights they were operating on March 12. At the same time US carriers like DL and UA (if granted permission) would be restricted to just 1x weekly one route until China says their terms and conditions have been met. Three weeks at 1x weekly isn't a long time I think the issue is who is going to keep the Chinese government honest. I hope no one takes this the wrong way because I do not blame China for COVID-19 but just look at this on face value. We know the Chinese government props up its airlines again I have no issue with government help. The issue is when you look at the CAAC's order and you realize no US carrier was flying March 12 but most if not all Chinese carrier were, and then you look at the pre-conditions that must be met and who it is that determines if an airline has met those pre-conditions, it becomes clear the Chinese government is blocking US carriers from resuming passengers service. There are no checks and balances, there is no way for either DL or UA to prove unequivocally during the three week 1x weekly time frame that there are no COVID-19 infected passengers on their flight. The only agency that can certify that an airline has meet the conditions it is Chinese government. The DOT had no choice but to step in and protect DL and UA because with rules like that China could effectively block US carriers until there is a vaccine or a therapeutic.

So basically Chinese carrier could resume flying up to a total of 34 flights a week (March 12th) to the US, while US carriers would be held to just 2 flights a week. This one-sided order would remain in effect until China says either DL and/or UA has met their pre-conditions which would allow them to then increase the number of weekly flights.
 
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:33 pm

jayunited wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Nope, I'm saying if you looked at the trajectory of COVID at that time, it made a lot of sense for China to reduce traffic into the country at around that time. Before that, it was in other country's incentive to reduce traffic to China. At around time, China had flattened the curve while other countries were experiencing exponential growth, so it made sense for China to do it.

The reality is that Chinese carrier capacities have also been kept artificially low (beneath real demand) due to this policy. If this policy gets loosened, then the Chinese carriers would swarmed the market with capacity and pretty much kill the yield to Asia.

DL is telling the market that Asia (especially Korea) demand is recovering really good. Well, if Chinese carriers start to dump capacity into the market again, that yield to Asia is going to be dumpster fire again.


I don't think the DOT really cares about yield when the truth is at some point the US-Chinese market will once again become a dumpster fire. The problem is the CAAC ruling and the March 12th date. A Reuters article written on May 22nd really captures the foundation of the problem and why the DOT felt it necessary to step in and essentially defend both DL and UA. Below are four paragraphs from the article.

"The number of weekly scheduled combination flights operated between the two countries by U.S and Chinese carriers fell from 325 in January to 20, by just the four Chinese carriers, in mid-February, before the carriers increased them to 34 in mid-March, the U.S. order said.

The CAAC in late March said Chinese airlines could maintain just one weekly passenger flight on one route to any given country and that carriers could fly no more than the number of flights they were flying on March 12, according to the U.S. order.

But because U.S. passenger airlines had stopped all flights by March 12, the CAAC notice “effectively precludes U.S. carriers from reinstating scheduled passenger flights to China,” the department said.

CAAC told the U.S. government during a May 14 call that China is considering removing the March 12 schedule pre-condition but the “restriction to once-weekly service on one route to China would remain in place,” the order said."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN22Z04W

The sticking point for the DOT in my opinion is simply this the CAAC's order states any carrier could fly no more than the number of flights they were flying on March 12th. This is the problem because that sentence right there allows Chinese carriers to resume flights to the US just as long as they don't exceed the number of flights they were operating on March 12. At the same time US carriers like DL and UA (if granted permission) would be restricted to just 1x weekly one route until China says their terms and conditions have been met. Three weeks at 1x weekly isn't a long time I think the issue is who is going to keep the Chinese government honest. I hope no one takes this the wrong way because I do not blame China for COVID-19 but just look at this on face value. We know the Chinese government props up its airlines again I have no issue with government help. The issue is when you look at the CAAC's order and you realize no US carrier was flying March 12 but most if not all Chinese carrier were, and then you look at the pre-conditions that must be met and who it is that determines if an airline has met those pre-conditions, it becomes clear the Chinese government is blocking US carriers from resuming passengers service. There are no checks and balances, there is no way for either DL or UA to prove unequivocally during the three week 1x weekly time frame that there are no COVID-19 infected passengers on their flight. The only agency that can certify that an airline has meet the conditions it is Chinese government. The DOT had no choice but to step in and protect DL and UA because with rules like that China could effectively block US carriers until there is a vaccine or a therapeutic.


That's fine, but isn't the idea that Chinese airlines were forced to take the losses and fly to other countries all along, so they were flying as of Mar 12th? Basically, any airline that was still operating into China as of Mar 12th was getting rewarded at back end for taking all that loss early on.

It seems to me that flight restrictions will be loosened over time based on bilateral relationship between China and that country + COVID case count in that nation. And at the moment US/China relationship is pretty bad, so I would expect travel restrictions between the 2 countries to be in place for a while. This would affect far more than just airlines industry. I think there is more at hand here than just the frequency of airlines.
 
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:01 pm

c933103 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-airlines-caac/china-eases-flight-curbs-after-u-s-order-targeting-chinese-carriers-idUSKBN23B081?il=0

Effective June 8th qualifying foreign carriers currently barred from operating flights to mainland China will be allowed once-per-week flight.

Also starting from Monday, CAAC will implement a reward and penalty policy. If an airline, operating China-bound flights, records zero COVID19 positive passengers for three consecutive weeks, the airline will be allowed to start one more weekly flight to China. If they bring in sick passengers, they may lose their authority.

The rule seems quite arbitary as China can report whatever random number of positive cases on whichever fights they want, especially when there's also the issue of asymptomatic cases doesn't count in China and the line between asymptomatic casrs and cases with mild symptoms is very fussy


Indeed. This will be a non-starter with the Trump administration.
 
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:58 pm

tphuang wrote:
c933103 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

I think by then, the China had flattened its curve whereas Western countries were just starting to have issues. March 11th was also when US put the travel Ban on EU countries. So quite a lot of things happened that week which would've led to every country imposing more restrictive air travel.

In other words, you are saying that March 11 was when the international traffic into/out of China was about the lowest as the pandemic in China was still severe even according to official data and most foreign airlines have axed their service accordingly, unlike Chinese airlines.
That made their action appears to be quite intentional


Nope, I'm saying if you looked at the trajectory of COVID at that time, it made a lot of sense for China to reduce traffic into the country at around that time. Before that, it was in other country's incentive to reduce traffic to China. At around time, China had flattened the curve while other countries were experiencing exponential growth, so it made sense for China to do it.

The reality is that Chinese carrier capacities have also been kept artificially low (beneath real demand) due to this policy. If this policy gets loosened, then the Chinese carriers would swarmed the market with capacity and pretty much kill the yield to Asia.

DL is telling the market that Asia (especially Korea) demand is recovering really good. Well, if Chinese carriers start to dump capacity into the market again, that yield to Asia is going to be dumpster fire again.

They can choose to outright stop all the flights and only allow people back home through charter or other similar formats. But they don't and still want to keep commercial flights available, yet specifically selected a date that would ruled out most foreign commercial service while only their own carriers get to provide skeleton service.
It is all good and fine to want to reduce the number of service, until you format the reduction in a way that on quite a number of markets the ratio of Chinese vs Foreign carriers offering the remaining service is 100%:0%
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tphuang
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:49 pm

c933103 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
c933103 wrote:
In other words, you are saying that March 11 was when the international traffic into/out of China was about the lowest as the pandemic in China was still severe even according to official data and most foreign airlines have axed their service accordingly, unlike Chinese airlines.
That made their action appears to be quite intentional


Nope, I'm saying if you looked at the trajectory of COVID at that time, it made a lot of sense for China to reduce traffic into the country at around that time. Before that, it was in other country's incentive to reduce traffic to China. At around time, China had flattened the curve while other countries were experiencing exponential growth, so it made sense for China to do it.

The reality is that Chinese carrier capacities have also been kept artificially low (beneath real demand) due to this policy. If this policy gets loosened, then the Chinese carriers would swarmed the market with capacity and pretty much kill the yield to Asia.

DL is telling the market that Asia (especially Korea) demand is recovering really good. Well, if Chinese carriers start to dump capacity into the market again, that yield to Asia is going to be dumpster fire again.

They can choose to outright stop all the flights and only allow people back home through charter or other similar formats. But they don't and still want to keep commercial flights available, yet specifically selected a date that would ruled out most foreign commercial service while only their own carriers get to provide skeleton service.
It is all good and fine to want to reduce the number of service, until you format the reduction in a way that on quite a number of markets the ratio of Chinese vs Foreign carriers offering the remaining service is 100%:0%


I'm saying the date is not arbitrary if conditions changed around that time. If they decided in April 15th to use March 11th as the date, that would be weird. If they decided on March 15th to use March 12th, because international situation is a lot worse than domestic, then that makes sense.

Again, DOT should do what it can to protected US airlines. But I can see the logic in the Chinese decisions at the time. Whether or not this is still appropriate is a different question.
 
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Re: China Relaxes Foreign Airline Ban; Delta/United Allowed to Resume

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:40 pm

nname wrote:
enilria wrote:
This would require the US crew to stay in China for 7 days so it is a non-starter I’m sure.


What if the plane stay on the ground for a day, then fly back with the same crew?

This is what the Chinese airlines do with this 1x weekly restriction.

There are solutions. There's also flying the crew out on another airline, but all of the solutions are expensive. I'm surprised the U.S. airlines haven't complained. I doubt Delta wants an A350 flying so little.
 
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Re: China Relaxes Foreign Airline Ban; Delta/United Allowed to Resume

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:46 pm

enilria wrote:
nname wrote:
enilria wrote:
This would require the US crew to stay in China for 7 days so it is a non-starter I’m sure.


What if the plane stay on the ground for a day, then fly back with the same crew?

This is what the Chinese airlines do with this 1x weekly restriction.

There are solutions. There's also flying the crew out on another airline, but all of the solutions are expensive. I'm surprised the U.S. airlines haven't complained. I doubt Delta wants an A350 flying so little.

The US airlines are running cargo only flights to China. I assume the plane and crews would be rotated with those.
 
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:46 pm

tphuang wrote:
That's fine, but isn't the idea that Chinese airlines were forced to take the losses and fly to other countries all along, so they were flying as of Mar 12th? Basically, any airline that was still operating into China as of Mar 12th was getting rewarded at back end for taking all that loss early on.

I get the concept, but one country doesn't get to dictate such a policy regarding flights between two countries.
Dieuwer wrote:
c933103 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-airlines-caac/china-eases-flight-curbs-after-u-s-order-targeting-chinese-carriers-idUSKBN23B081?il=0

Effective June 8th qualifying foreign carriers currently barred from operating flights to mainland China will be allowed once-per-week flight.

Also starting from Monday, CAAC will implement a reward and penalty policy. If an airline, operating China-bound flights, records zero COVID19 positive passengers for three consecutive weeks, the airline will be allowed to start one more weekly flight to China. If they bring in sick passengers, they may lose their authority.

The rule seems quite arbitary as China can report whatever random number of positive cases on whichever fights they want, especially when there's also the issue of asymptomatic cases doesn't count in China and the line between asymptomatic casrs and cases with mild symptoms is very fussy


Indeed. This will be a non-starter with the Trump administration.

The whole thing is exactly the type of protectionist trade restrictions the Trump Administration has been accusing China of. The bilateral does not limit flights to 1/week, the bilateral does not prohibit temporary service suspensions, the bilateral does not allow one country to block the airlines of the other country. China has unilaterally rewritten the bilateral. Let's also remember that if the USA behaved in the same way, the USA would have banned Chinese carriers from the USA when AA/DL/UA suspended. There was quite a bit of public safety driven political pressure to suspend all service to China if we all remember. The DOT did not cave and honored the bilateral only to find China not doing the same.
 
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Re: China Relaxes Foreign Airline Ban; Delta/United Allowed to Resume

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:47 pm

Polot wrote:
enilria wrote:
nname wrote:

What if the plane stay on the ground for a day, then fly back with the same crew?

This is what the Chinese airlines do with this 1x weekly restriction.

There are solutions. There's also flying the crew out on another airline, but all of the solutions are expensive. I'm surprised the U.S. airlines haven't complained. I doubt Delta wants an A350 flying so little.

The US airlines are running cargo only flights to China. I assume the plane and crews would be rotated with those.

Cargo planes don't need many flight attendants...
 
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Re: China Relaxes Foreign Airline Ban; Delta/United Allowed to Resume

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:48 pm

enilria wrote:
Polot wrote:
enilria wrote:
There are solutions. There's also flying the crew out on another airline, but all of the solutions are expensive. I'm surprised the U.S. airlines haven't complained. I doubt Delta wants an A350 flying so little.

The US airlines are running cargo only flights to China. I assume the plane and crews would be rotated with those.

Cargo planes don't need many flight attendants...

You can still stick them onboard for the flight to ICN or whenever (not all of the flights appear to be nonstop).
 
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:18 pm

enilria wrote:
The whole thing is exactly the type of protectionist trade restrictions the Trump Administration has been accusing China of. The bilateral does not limit flights to 1/week, the bilateral does not prohibit temporary service suspensions, the bilateral does not allow one country to block the airlines of the other country. China has unilaterally rewritten the bilateral. Let's also remember that if the USA behaved in the same way, the USA would have banned Chinese carriers from the USA when AA/DL/UA suspended. There was quite a bit of public safety driven political pressure to suspend all service to China if we all remember. The DOT did not cave and honored the bilateral only to find China not doing the same.


I do have to disagree with you here. When we shut down on our borders, we didn't prevent any airlines from coming in here. China shut it down for everyone outside of the once weekly service. To me, they just had a more restrictive border policy than us. None of which is aimed at any specific country. At this point, I’m pretty there are more foreigners coming in America through the air than into China. We have a more open border policy which is a reflection of the American society. China is generally a far more closed society. Even Chinese citizens coming back into the country had to be quarantined in gov't mandated hotels for 14 days before they can go home. There is no policy like that here.
 
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:34 pm

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN23B2WJ
Apparently the United States will revise their order after China announced the new policy
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:03 pm

tphuang wrote:
enilria wrote:
The whole thing is exactly the type of protectionist trade restrictions the Trump Administration has been accusing China of. The bilateral does not limit flights to 1/week, the bilateral does not prohibit temporary service suspensions, the bilateral does not allow one country to block the airlines of the other country. China has unilaterally rewritten the bilateral. Let's also remember that if the USA behaved in the same way, the USA would have banned Chinese carriers from the USA when AA/DL/UA suspended. There was quite a bit of public safety driven political pressure to suspend all service to China if we all remember. The DOT did not cave and honored the bilateral only to find China not doing the same.


I do have to disagree with you here. When we shut down on our borders, we didn't prevent any airlines from coming in here. China shut it down for everyone outside of the once weekly service. To me, they just had a more restrictive border policy than us. None of which is aimed at any specific country. At this point, I’m pretty there are more foreigners coming in America through the air than into China. We have a more open border policy which is a reflection of the American society. China is generally a far more closed society. Even Chinese citizens coming back into the country had to be quarantined in gov't mandated hotels for 14 days before they can go home. There is no policy like that here.

Another thing is that, many Chinese carriers are also operating a vast number of commercial charter flight to offer additional capacity beyomd what the Chinese Five One policy said on paper but United States carriers can't do that either.
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:08 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
c933103 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-airlines-caac/china-eases-flight-curbs-after-u-s-order-targeting-chinese-carriers-idUSKBN23B081?il=0

Effective June 8th qualifying foreign carriers currently barred from operating flights to mainland China will be allowed once-per-week flight.

Also starting from Monday, CAAC will implement a reward and penalty policy. If an airline, operating China-bound flights, records zero COVID19 positive passengers for three consecutive weeks, the airline will be allowed to start one more weekly flight to China. If they bring in sick passengers, they may lose their authority.

The rule seems quite arbitary as China can report whatever random number of positive cases on whichever fights they want, especially when there's also the issue of asymptomatic cases doesn't count in China and the line between asymptomatic casrs and cases with mild symptoms is very fussy


Indeed. This will be a non-starter with the Trump administration.

Another thing I note about this new policy is that, even if Chinese test results announcement are to be trusted, such action is actually penalizing victims as airlines with patients onboard are obviously victim of the virus as well and that's not a risk they can eliminate no matter how many precaution they made. Such is completely opposite to China's diplomacy message of don't blame the one who initially caught the virus and caused it to spread. It would be interesting to see will such policy backfires.
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:35 pm

The U.S. will allow Chinese carriers to operate 2x weekly flights to the U.S.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-eases- ... 8FFdSbUdtq
 
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Re: Chinese aviation market international capacity restriction

Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:32 pm

In the single month starting from next Wednesday, Hong Kong Airport will restore transit ferry service from/to Macau at 2/daily frequency, allowing non-overnight transit of overseas Macanese residents returning to Macau or people of other nationality trying to leave Macau. People returning to Macau via this mean must first register on Macanese government website
https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/ch/component/ ... 200610.htm (Chinese URL)
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