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Jetport
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:23 pm

Re: SLC Airport to Close All Existing Gates in September

Fri May 22, 2020 2:16 am

SESGDL wrote:
DLASFlyer wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
This gets me to wondering if SLC isn't anticipating Delta reducing or even closing the SLC hub after Delta completes their post-COVID restructuring? With Delta's international hub at SEA likely to be restored to near-pre-COVID activity, will Delta still need 2 hubs serving the Mountain West and Northwest regions?


SLC isn't going anywhere. It serves the same key role as Denver for UA. BOS, SEA, LAX and either MSP or DTW would go before SLC.


Are you kidding? SLC is going to outlast MSP and DTW, DL's 2nd and 3rd largest markets, hubs, and revenue generators? SLC is a mid-tier hub, at best. SLC is no DEN. While I don't think SLC is going anywhere, it's far more vulnerable than either MSP or DTW, both of which are larger and higher yielding markets.

Jeremy


Potentially de-hubbing SLC is just silly, you can't replace something with nothing. Every city one of the US big 3 and their predecessors has de-hubbed had another hub quite close by. There is nothing close to SLC for Delta. The other two western hubs LAX and SEA (both really just focus cities) have far less Delta service and are located on the coast where the costs of constantly flying to the coast and backtracking would be dealbreakers.

Why is A-net so obsessed with de-hubbing? I don't think there will be any hubs lost to Covid. Airlines have actually been adding hubs/focus cities not reducing them over the last decade.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8137
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: SLC Airport to Close All Existing Gates in September

Fri May 22, 2020 2:17 am

questions wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
Time for some "fun facts" about SLC and its status among Delta hubs.

Delta hubs - (2019 all-airlines' passenger counts) largest to smallest:
1) ATL - 110,531,300
2) LAX - 88,068,013
3) JFK - 62,551,072
4) SEA - 51,821,239
5) BOS - 42,522,411
6) MSP -39,555,035
7) DTW - 36,759,269
8) LGA - 31,084,894
9) SLC - 26,808,014

If you discount the "non-fortress hubs" (LAX, JFK, SEA, BOS & LGA), SLC is #4 and their smallest "fortress hub" by a wide margin. SLC is also considerably smaller than non-hub airports such as LAS, MCO and FLL. Overall, it is just approximately 1.6 million passengers larger than the highly-constrained non-hub, SAN.


Very “fun facts” indeed. Smaller than non-hub airports LAS, MCO and FLL. Given that and it’s size relative to DL’s other hubs, what role does SLC play in DL’s overall network? Passenger flow to/from small mountain, southwest and western towns/cities?


SLC role is as follows:
1) Enable connections from large and mid-sized markets in the East Coast and Midwest to secondary and tertiary markets in the west coast and mountain west (e.g. JFK-SLC-BZN, ATL-SLC-FCA, DTW-SLC-JAC, BOS-SLC-IDA)
2) Capture SLC O&D which includes a healthy mix of a growing population and economic region, a booming summer tourism market to the national parks and mountain communities in the region, and robust winter ski traffic (e.g, SLC-BOS, NYC, WAS, ATL, Florida, DTW, MSP)
3) Facilitate connections between secondary and tiertiary markets within the West Coast and Mountain West (e.g., GJT-SLC-SEA, LAS-SLC-FCA, LAX-SLC-COD)
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: SLC Airport to Close All Existing Gates in September

Fri May 22, 2020 2:23 am

flyoregon wrote:
SLCUT2777 wrote:
questions wrote:

Why do you suggest DL will scale back SLC?

Like too many on this board, they all think SLC is a small, insignificant market like BOI, RNO, GEG etc...


SLC definitely isn't like BOI, RNO, or GEG, but it's not exactly a huge CSA either. It is undeniably a great geographic location perfect for a hub.

The problem for Delta in SLC is two-fold.

International traffic from SEA is obviously huge and high-yielding.
But they can’t afford to drop SLC as a hub, Someone will IMMEDIATELY jump in to take advantage of the situation, and poach the very same NW traffic that Delta needs to feed SEA.
 
Chriswebb775
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:37 pm

Re: SLC Airport to Close All Existing Gates in September

Fri May 22, 2020 2:29 am

Honestly I see Seattle or LAX Going away well before salt Lake is even a thought for Delta it's been strategic hub for a while . And if anybody's been to salt Lake lately and seen how much traffic is there half the planes are just parked anyways I don't foresee it picking up Any time soon.just my opinion .
9207DA
 
YRA
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:07 pm

Re: SLC Airport to Close All Existing Gates in September

Fri May 22, 2020 2:57 am

Based on those passenger totals it is important to remember for focus cities on the coasts you have thousands of people traveling from very large city to very large city every day that are within a two hour flight or less. There is little equivalency for SLC. It’s apples to oranges. That’s why Delta considers so many of those places to be focus cities rather than hubs. On a proportional basis prior to COVID-19, where would SLC fall on the list in terms of number of destinations served? What about profit per passenger??
 
amcnd
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:19 am

Re: SLC Airport to Close All Existing Gates in September

Fri May 22, 2020 3:14 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
No delta hub will be operating at 2019 numbers in 2021 anyway. They are retiring planes.

They don't need as much space short term and with SLC weather stands for CR2s even CR7s is fine, and thats really all the E concourse was anyway . They could make this work.



Those hard stands wont work anymore.. think they even painted over the parking lines already.. Maybe the Old old FedEx parking are.. But thats super far away
From the new terminals..
 
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SLCUT2777
Posts: 3476
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

Re: SLC Airport to Close All Existing Gates in September

Fri May 22, 2020 3:23 am

questions wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
Time for some "fun facts" about SLC and its status among Delta hubs.

Delta hubs - (2019 all-airlines' passenger counts) largest to smallest:
1) ATL - 110,531,300
2) LAX - 88,068,013
3) JFK - 62,551,072
4) SEA - 51,821,239
5) BOS - 42,522,411
6) MSP -39,555,035
7) DTW - 36,759,269
8) LGA - 31,084,894
9) SLC - 26,808,014

If you discount the "non-fortress hubs" (LAX, JFK, SEA, BOS & LGA), SLC is #4 and their smallest "fortress hub" by a wide margin. SLC is also considerably smaller than non-hub airports such as LAS, MCO and FLL. Overall, it is just approximately 1.6 million passengers larger than the highly-constrained non-hub, SAN.

Very “fun facts” indeed. Smaller than non-hub airports LAS, MCO and FLL. Given that and it’s size relative to DL’s other hubs, what role does SLC play in DL’s overall network? Passenger flow to/from small mountain, southwest and western towns/cities?

However your tabulation is factually flawed. SLC (Wasatch Front metro which includes Ogden & Provo) is closer to 2.8 million. The State of Utah will be 3.3 million when the 2020 census is released soon.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
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SLCUT2777
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Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

Re: SLC Airport to Close All Existing Gates in September

Fri May 22, 2020 3:30 am

If DL wants to keep large TPAC focus in both LAX & SEA, they need SLC in a similar way UA utilizes DEN to handle SFO & LAX.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 1088
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: SLC Airport to Close All Existing Gates in September

Fri May 22, 2020 3:44 am

flyoregon wrote:
SLCUT2777 wrote:
questions wrote:

Why do you suggest DL will scale back SLC?

Like too many on this board, they all think SLC is a small, insignificant market like BOI, RNO, GEG etc...


SLC definitely isn't like BOI, RNO, or GEG, but it's not exactly a huge CSA either. It is undeniably a great geographic location perfect for a hub.


Not that it matters in the here and now, but the SLC hub dates back to DL's 1987 acquisition of Western Airlines. It's not entirely clear how large DL's network will be post-COVID, but I'd argue that it's more likely than not that SLC will continue to play the "Western but Not Quite West Coast Hub" role that PHX - which is nearly a straight line south between the two cities, though PHX is slightly west of said straight line - is for AA (and WN) or DEN is for UA (and WN).

Also, for what it's worth, the Watsach Front (SLC-Provo-Ogden combined metro area) stretches for about 120 miles across Northern/NW Utah and is home to about 2.6 million people; the immediate SLC metro area population is slightly around 1.15 million.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 1088
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: SLC Airport to Close All Existing Gates in September

Fri May 22, 2020 3:48 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
1) Can we end the conversation about DL leaving SLC?
2) Can we end the conversation about how DL "prints money" and is "always profitable"?

In reality lets all be honest, ATL generates more revenue for DL before 10am that SLC does in an entire operating day.


Now compare the size of the ATL and SLC hubs and compared their importance within the overall scheme of things. That's not to diminish SLC's role within the DL network - a role SLC has maintained since the late 1980s - but a little context would be helpful.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8137
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: SLC Airport to Close All Existing Gates in September

Fri May 22, 2020 3:54 am

I agree with you and I am pointing out the fallacies of both sides.

SLC is a core hub yes. It isn’t going anywhere despite Anet’s obsession with dehubbing.

On the flip side one has to acknowledge what it is. While more often that not it may “print money” on the scale that it is, DLs success is ultimately more tied to its mothership in ATL.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 1088
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: SLC Airport to Close All Existing Gates in September

Fri May 22, 2020 3:56 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I agree with you and I am pointing out the fallacies of both sides.

SLC is a core hub yes. It isn’t going anywhere despite Anet’s obsession with dehubbing.

On the flip side one has to acknowledge what it is. While more often that not it may “print money” on the scale that it is, DLs success is ultimately more tied to its mothership in ATL.


No question. I'm worn out and I may have misunderstood what you're saying earlier, but there's no question ATL drives the bus for DL and the other hubs ride shotgun (but seem to do well for themselves as well - for the most part).
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
ILikeTrains
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:18 am

Re: SLC Airport to Close Existing Concourses as new ones open

Fri May 22, 2020 4:24 am

SLC’s growth doesn’t show signs of slowing down anytime soon. DL dehubbing would be dumb now.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3625
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: SLC Airport to Close All Existing Gates in September

Fri May 22, 2020 4:35 am

FLALEFTY wrote:
This gets me to wondering if SLC isn't anticipating Delta reducing or even closing the SLC hub after Delta completes their post-COVID restructuring? With Delta's international hub at SEA likely to be restored to near-pre-COVID activity, will Delta still need 2 hubs serving the Mountain West and Northwest regions?


I have always thought SLC was a much better option for Delta than Seattle. Seattle can only expand a little bit. After SLC is done with this change they still have expansion space. If hub centric still works best post COVID. I think they are going to find a mix of Hub and Hub-b-c-d-e-Hub. could be best efficient long term mix the best of the old & the best of the new.
 
questions
Posts: 2337
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: SLC Airport to Close All Existing Gates in September

Fri May 22, 2020 4:46 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
questions wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
Time for some "fun facts" about SLC and its status among Delta hubs.

Delta hubs - (2019 all-airlines' passenger counts) largest to smallest:
1) ATL - 110,531,300
2) LAX - 88,068,013
3) JFK - 62,551,072
4) SEA - 51,821,239
5) BOS - 42,522,411
6) MSP -39,555,035
7) DTW - 36,759,269
8) LGA - 31,084,894
9) SLC - 26,808,014

If you discount the "non-fortress hubs" (LAX, JFK, SEA, BOS & LGA), SLC is #4 and their smallest "fortress hub" by a wide margin. SLC is also considerably smaller than non-hub airports such as LAS, MCO and FLL. Overall, it is just approximately 1.6 million passengers larger than the highly-constrained non-hub, SAN.


Very “fun facts” indeed. Smaller than non-hub airports LAS, MCO and FLL. Given that and it’s size relative to DL’s other hubs, what role does SLC play in DL’s overall network? Passenger flow to/from small mountain, southwest and western towns/cities?


SLC role is as follows:
1) Enable connections from large and mid-sized markets in the East Coast and Midwest to secondary and tertiary markets in the west coast and mountain west (e.g. JFK-SLC-BZN, ATL-SLC-FCA, DTW-SLC-JAC, BOS-SLC-IDA)
2) Capture SLC O&D which includes a healthy mix of a growing population and economic region, a booming summer tourism market to the national parks and mountain communities in the region, and robust winter ski traffic (e.g, SLC-BOS, NYC, WAS, ATL, Florida, DTW, MSP)
3) Facilitate connections between secondary and tiertiary markets within the West Coast and Mountain West (e.g., GJT-SLC-SEA, LAS-SLC-FCA, LAX-SLC-COD)


Thanks.
 
WBM
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: SLC Airport to Close Existing Concourses as new ones open

Fri May 22, 2020 4:49 am

I can definitely see the upside to switching over to the new terminal and concourses all at once. All of the old terminals were slated for demolition as soon as the new terminal opens, so the only worry should be having enough gate capacity.

This does makes me wonder about two things with regard to construction. First does this give them the ability to scale back the project if needed? If it starts to look like things are not going to get better for quite awhile would they be able to wait on building one of the east concourses, or shorten each from the original plan? From looking at the plan, that seems like it could work. I also wonder if they would be able to phase in gate space as it is built. If they could pull that off, it would greatly ease the difficulty of reduced gates.
 
HNLSLCPDX
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: SLC Airport to Close Existing Concourses as new ones open

Fri May 22, 2020 7:14 am

As someone who lives in the SLC area, many of you a.netters have no idea of the growth the SLC-Provo-Ogden metro area is experiencing, most of you have no idea how many loyal DL flyers are in this overall area, and just how strong the overall Utah economy is. DL isn’t going anywhere, regardless of the a.netters that are cheering for de-hubbing. Mormon missionaries will still fly even it’s domestic for a little bit. Like I said it won’t happen but as already mentioned I can bet an airline like Alaska, JetBlue or Breeze would pounce on SLC almost overnight.

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