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Ishrion
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Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 5:54 pm

Along with Etihad planning to lay of 1,200 employees, the airline is also considering a future without its A380s and the A350-1000s it never operated.

Etihad may retire its 10 A380s early with them potentially never returning to service after the virus outbreak grounded the airline’s passenger flights in March, the sources said. Etihad is also considering whether to operate the A350-1000, the sources said. They said the airline was expected to make a decision on the fate of the two Airbus wide-bodies soon.


https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SL8N2D34WD

So in the past week:
- Emirates rumored to retire 40% of A380 fleet
- Emirates in talks to cancel 5 A380 orders
- Air France retires entire fleet
- Lufthansa slashes A380 flights from Frankfurt.

Possibly the worst ever week for the A380?
 
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GEUltraFan9XGTF
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Re: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 6:16 pm

Doesn't bode well for the 77X either.
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Jefford717
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 6:29 pm

Understandable. Why add another type of aircraft in your fleet when demand isn’t there?

Any idea what’s going to happen to the 5 A350-1000 that are already built but never put to service?
 
mxaxai
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 6:34 pm

Jefford717 wrote:
Any idea what’s going to happen to the 5 A350-1000 that are already built but never put to service?

Maybe scrap for spare parts? Store indefinitely in a nice dry place? Not many other customers for the -1000.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 6:40 pm

without the A380's? EK the US# will need uplift in the future to replace the A380 which was overkill in the extreme, Now? they need to operate like a REAL Airline, And having said that? They'll need to operate on a basis like Singapore Airlines ( in my opinion) A GREAT product at a good price. Everything on Par with the best.
but Maybe? Just a cut above to stand out in service. And I'm not saying they didn't have good service. But since you can get nearly anywhere without going through the middle East? They Need to stand OUT, And modeling SQ? Is a damn good way to do it! Hell! It might cause the US3 to step up their "game" a little.
 
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SEPilot
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 6:44 pm

Jefford717 wrote:
Understandable. Why add another type of aircraft in your fleet when demand isn’t there?

Any idea what’s going to happen to the 5 A350-1000 that are already built but never put to service?

Travel IS going to recover, the question is when. With A380s and 747s gone there will be a place for the A3510 and the 779, and 5 shiny new A3510s will find a home somewhere. Meanwhile hordes of lawyers will find gainful if not productive employment fighting over their fate.
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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 6:46 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Doesn't bode well for the 77X either.


Etihad already cancal most of that ordeer
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 6:48 pm

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Doesn't bode well for the 77X either.


Etihad already cancal most of that ordeer


No they haven’t. According to Boeing’s books they are still on order.
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Ishrion
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Re: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 6:50 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Doesn't bode well for the 77X either.


Etihad already cancal most of that ordeer


No they haven’t. According to Boeing’s books they are still on order.


I believe they reduced it from 25 orders to something much smaller? Or is Boeing still displaying 25?
 
ewt340
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 7:00 pm

I really hope they kept A350-1000. But in reality, it would be best if they stick with all the B787 they got. I even doubt the usefulness of B777-300ER for them at this point. The A321neo and B787 seems to be quite good for them moving forwards.

Heck, they might even wanna consider canceling all their weird 6 orders for B777X and convert some of their B787-10 to smaller -8 and -9 at this time around. Just to make sure they could fill all their seats after the pandemic.
Last edited by ewt340 on Thu May 21, 2020 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Polot
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 7:00 pm

mxaxai wrote:
Jefford717 wrote:
Any idea what’s going to happen to the 5 A350-1000 that are already built but never put to service?

Maybe scrap for spare parts? Store indefinitely in a nice dry place? Not many other customers for the -1000.

EY would just store them until they can find a buyer. They won’t be scrapped. Eventually someone will take brand new -1000s.
 
chonetsao
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 7:02 pm

ewt340 wrote:
I really hope they kept A350-1000. But in reality, it would be best if they stick with all the B787 they got.

Heck, they might want to consider canceling all their B777X and convert some of their B787-10 to smaller -8 and -9 at this time around. Just to make sure they could fill all their seats after the pandemic.


Yes I hope they can keep the A35K too. At least if A380 is gone, EY can use A35K exclusively for LHR and SIN alike.
 
Antarius
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 7:04 pm

SEPilot wrote:
Jefford717 wrote:
Understandable. Why add another type of aircraft in your fleet when demand isn’t there?

Any idea what’s going to happen to the 5 A350-1000 that are already built but never put to service?

Travel IS going to recover, the question is when. With A380s and 747s gone there will be a place for the A3510 and the 779, and 5 shiny new A3510s will find a home somewhere. Meanwhile hordes of lawyers will find gainful if not productive employment fighting over their fate.


I could see CX taking them eventually.
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9Patch
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Re: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 7:06 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Doesn't bode well for the 77X either.


Doesn't bode well for the A350-1000 either.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 7:16 pm

9Patch wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Doesn't bode well for the 77X either.


Doesn't bode well for the A350-1000 either.

In the midst of Covid -19 Nothing looks good. But? this will not go on Forever. So? Airliner development needs to continue.
 
jfk777
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 7:26 pm

Maybe SAA could use them, the Business Rescue Practicineers could leave an A350 legacy at SAA instead of all the A340 SAA currently has.
 
ewt340
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Re: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 7:33 pm

9Patch wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Doesn't bode well for the 77X either.


Doesn't bode well for the A350-1000 either.


Not really. If we look at Etihad's previous order from Airbus. Etihad order 64 A350. They cancel all 40 A350-900 and 2 A350-1000. They didn't announced that they are canceling 17 A350-1000. But the fact that they said they only gonna take 5 A350 means that the other 17 are canceled. So this cancellation would be anticipated by Airbus since last year.

5 A350-1000 is a tiny number. This isn't a big problem for A350 program. The plane is there, even if -1000 only sells 200 frames, they already make their profits from the smaller -900 anyway.

B777X on the other hand though. None of the models actually brings in much money yet. The -8 isn't selling and -9 is getting cancelled right and left.
 
Opus99
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Re: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 8:18 pm

ewt340 wrote:
9Patch wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Doesn't bode well for the 77X either.


Doesn't bode well for the A350-1000 either.


Not really. If we look at Etihad's previous order from Airbus. Etihad order 64 A350. They cancel all 40 A350-900 and 2 A350-1000. They didn't announced that they are canceling 17 A350-1000. But the fact that they said they only gonna take 5 A350 means that the other 17 are canceled. So this cancellation would be anticipated by Airbus since last year.

5 A350-1000 is a tiny number. This isn't a big problem for A350 program. The plane is there, even if -1000 only sells 200 frames, they already make their profits from the smaller -900 anyway.

B777X on the other hand though. None of the models actually brings in much money yet. The -8 isn't selling and -9 is getting cancelled right and left.

I like to see the right and left you’re talking about because EK reduced their order. That Cathay story, last we heard they hadn’t even gone to Boeing about it. It was just being discussed internally. People are so desperate for the 777X to end up like the A380. Sad really. But unfortunately they are not the same class of aircraft. The A350-1000 sits about 30 less passengers than the 777X so I don’t know what is so “much smaller” about it. I think they will both do great. Both fantastic in their own right. The reality of the situation I’ve come to realise with Airbus is their cost base. Boeing seems to be able to offer a much better deal on their aircrafts. The A35K will obviously burn less fuel than the 777X and Boeing knows this. But it doesn’t have to for it to be competitive. The A380 is the REAL VLA and nothing else compares to its size
 
travelhound
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 8:23 pm

I see the retirement of the A380 as both a macro and micro initiative to match capacity with expected demand post Covid-19.

On the Macro side, by retiring the A380 early airlines (as a whole) have made a quick and rather substantial cut to the seats available in the market post Covid-19.

On the micro side, retiring whole fleets of the A380 not only allows individual airlines to match capacity with demand in the markets they serve, it also allows the airlines to be more agile whilst at the same time simplifying their fleets and crew resources.

......and for the OEM’s, retiring entire fleets of aircraft helps them secure their order books into the future. If air travel takes 3 years to recover to 2019 levels, airlines will need to replace the retired A380’s with new aircraft over a very short period of time.

My rough count suggests approximately 90 A380’s will be retired, along with 15-20 747’s 15-20 A330-600’s, 25-30 767’s, 25 777’s and an unspecified number of older generation A330’s. In all cases we could argue these retirements also allowed airlines to simplify their fleets.
Last edited by travelhound on Thu May 21, 2020 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
pranav7478
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 8:24 pm

i think that would be a slightly good idea. less types to operate. a320 family for short haul/regional, 787 for medium/long haul, and 777/777x for long haul. even though the a350 is very efficient, it would be just an extra type, which is not a good idea for an airline that is already struggling. even getting rid of the 777x order and replacing it for more 787s would be better
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 8:31 pm

I guess the 5 Etihad 3510s are paid for. Hence the term "abandon". Or "fly tipped" maybe??!!
Last edited by JerseyFlyer on Thu May 21, 2020 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Opus99
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 8:32 pm

My reasoning for why Etihad will most likely stick to the 777X and break from the 350 is very simple and it has nothing to do with the performance of the aircraft:

1. One of the reasons etihad couldn’t take their 350s was due to lack of crew able to operate them (apparently)...so i don’t think that would be easier now even...it will be a serious outlier

2. They have a strong Boeing fleet and especially a strong 77W fleet. They may not be in a position to take the 779 now...but much later down the line when those 77Ws age and they need to go they can turn to the 779..so they’ll be heavily deferred. Maybe delivery from about 2025 really.

3. It’s cheaper for them to operate an all Boeing fleet. The 777X has high commonality with the 787 which will make an easier introduction into the fleet.
 
Opus99
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 8:33 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
I guess the 5 Etihad 3510s are paid for. Hence the term "abandon". Or "fly tipping" maybe??!!

Yes they’ve been paid for. Those planes are marked as delivered by Airbus
 
Gbass21
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 8:42 pm

QF could make very good use of those 5 A350-1000. They don´t have enough 787 to replace 747s and possibly a380 (depending on whatever decision they take) and there is a huge gap beetween 787 capacity to 747 or A380 capacity. I know that right now they don´t need 300-350 passenger aircraft but in 3-6 months, routes as SYD-LAX and adding as demand recovers Tokyo, Hong Kong or any other 747/A388 flown route, the A351 would make a good job. Also, it makes sense as they were in talks to airbus for an A350 order for project sunrise.... those Etihad A351 will be delivered faster than any new order for Airbus (2023 at least)
 
Turnhouse1
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 8:49 pm

Do the EY A350s have seats and galleys installed, presumably easier to move on if they are clean shells?
 
ewt340
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Re: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 8:55 pm

Opus99 wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
9Patch wrote:

Doesn't bode well for the A350-1000 either.


Not really. If we look at Etihad's previous order from Airbus. Etihad order 64 A350. They cancel all 40 A350-900 and 2 A350-1000. They didn't announced that they are canceling 17 A350-1000. But the fact that they said they only gonna take 5 A350 means that the other 17 are canceled. So this cancellation would be anticipated by Airbus since last year.

5 A350-1000 is a tiny number. This isn't a big problem for A350 program. The plane is there, even if -1000 only sells 200 frames, they already make their profits from the smaller -900 anyway.

B777X on the other hand though. None of the models actually brings in much money yet. The -8 isn't selling and -9 is getting cancelled right and left.

I like to see the right and left you’re talking about because EK reduced their order. That Cathay story, last we heard they hadn’t even gone to Boeing about it. It was just being discussed internally. People are so desperate for the 777X to end up like the A380. Sad really. But unfortunately they are not the same class of aircraft. The A350-1000 sits about 30 less passengers than the 777X so I don’t know what is so “much smaller” about it. I think they will both do great. Both fantastic in their own right. The reality of the situation I’ve come to realise with Airbus is their cost base. Boeing seems to be able to offer a much better deal on their aircrafts. The A35K will obviously burn less fuel than the 777X and Boeing knows this. But it doesn’t have to for it to be competitive. The A380 is the REAL VLA and nothing else compares to its size


Well of course many of the changes are not finalized yet. But if we look at this article about Etihad and their paid A350-1000 and compared it to CX position on B777X. It's all still in the work. None of the are finalized.

A350-1000 is smaller compared to 10-abreast B777-300ER. And B777-9 is larger that B777-300ER. The seat count difference between B777X and A350-1000 would be close to 50 seats rather than 30 seats. B777-9 have similar capacity to B747.

B777-9 is a VLA, like it or not. And they are on the chopping block. Emirates reducing their orders is the kiss of death already.
 
GBOAD
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 9:57 pm

Opus99 wrote:
The 777X has high commonality with the 787 which will make an easier introduction into the fleet.


Crew and operation-wise there's some truth in this, but component-wise there's close to zero commonality between the 777 and 787 airframes and interiors. Even the fasteners are different.
 
Antarius
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 10:11 pm

Gbass21 wrote:
QF could make very good use of those 5 A350-1000. They don´t have enough 787 to replace 747s and possibly a380 (depending on whatever decision they take) and there is a huge gap beetween 787 capacity to 747 or A380 capacity. I know that right now they don´t need 300-350 passenger aircraft but in 3-6 months, routes as SYD-LAX and adding as demand recovers Tokyo, Hong Kong or any other 747/A388 flown route, the A351 would make a good job. Also, it makes sense as they were in talks to airbus for an A350 order for project sunrise.... those Etihad A351 will be delivered faster than any new order for Airbus (2023 at least)


I'm not sure. QF seems happy using 789s instead of their 744s. They also seem to want to keep their a380s for a while for specific routes.

Now, depending on what happens with Project Sunrise (if any thing), then yes, the a35K might fit in.
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Antarius
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 10:13 pm

Gbass21 wrote:
QF could make very good use of those 5 A350-1000. They don´t have enough 787 to replace 747s and possibly a380 (depending on whatever decision they take) and there is a huge gap beetween 787 capacity to 747 or A380 capacity. I know that right now they don´t need 300-350 passenger aircraft but in 3-6 months, routes as SYD-LAX and adding as demand recovers Tokyo, Hong Kong or any other 747/A388 flown route, the A351 would make a good job. Also, it makes sense as they were in talks to airbus for an A350 order for project sunrise.... those Etihad A351 will be delivered faster than any new order for Airbus (2023 at least)


I'm not sure. QF seems happy using 789s instead of their 744s. They also seem to want to keep their a380s for a while for specific routes.

Now, depending on what happens with Project Sunrise (if any thing), then yes, the a35K might fit in.
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DLHAM
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 10:30 pm

Maybe Delta has some use for these A350-1000s? Corona isnt forever and the -1000s maybe bring the extra performance needed for the longest 777 flights.
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ewt340
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Re: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 10:40 pm

Opus99 wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
I like to see the right and left you’re talking about because EK reduced their order. That Cathay story, last we heard they hadn’t even gone to Boeing about it. It was just being discussed internally. People are so desperate for the 777X to end up like the A380. Sad really. But unfortunately they are not the same class of aircraft. The A350-1000 sits about 30 less passengers than the 777X so I don’t know what is so “much smaller” about it. I think they will both do great. Both fantastic in their own right. The reality of the situation I’ve come to realise with Airbus is their cost base. Boeing seems to be able to offer a much better deal on their aircrafts. The A35K will obviously burn less fuel than the 777X and Boeing knows this. But it doesn’t have to for it to be competitive. The A380 is the REAL VLA and nothing else compares to its size


Well of course many of the changes are not finalized yet. But if we look at this article about Etihad and their paid A350-1000 and compared it to CX position on B777X. It's all still in the work. None of the are finalized.

A350-1000 is smaller compared to 10-abreast B777-300ER. And B777-9 is larger that B777-300ER. The seat count difference between B777X and A350-1000 would be close to 50 seats rather than 30 seats. B777-9 have similar capacity to B747.

B777-9 is a VLA, like it or not. And they are on the chopping block. Emirates reducing their orders is the kiss of death already.


Arguing with you will make me lose brain cells because you’re so hot on the 777-9 being a failure you fail to see the massive hole in your argument. If the 777-9 goes down, the 35¥ goes with it and vice versa and neither are going down. The 35K can’t seem to crack 200 orders maybe it had the kiss of death 6 years ago? Please your argument is so flawed


No, no, you don't get it. Read again what I wrote.

The reason why B777-9 is on danger is because many airlines are looking at the alternatives like A350 or B787 for their operations. This pandemic make the situation worsen. Emirates which is their largest costumer reduce their orders for the plane. There's a discussion on how Cathay might swapped it for B787. And Etihad had reduced its own order as well.

As for Etihad, I don't see how B777-9 be useful for them. They got a lot of young B777-300ER. And they need to reduce capacity to get into profit again. Not increasing capacity.

For now, both A350-1000 and B777-9 would be considered a failure. We'll see in couple of years how they're going to do.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 11:02 pm

ewt340 wrote:
9Patch wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Doesn't bode well for the 77X either.


Doesn't bode well for the A350-1000 either.


Not really. If we look at Etihad's previous order from Airbus. Etihad order 64 A350. They cancel all 40 A350-900 and 2 A350-1000. They didn't announced that they are canceling 17 A350-1000. But the fact that they said they only gonna take 5 A350 means that the other 17 are canceled. So this cancellation would be anticipated by Airbus since last year.

5 A350-1000 is a tiny number. This isn't a big problem for A350 program. The plane is there, even if -1000 only sells 200 frames, they already make their profits from the smaller -900 anyway.

B777X on the other hand though. None of the models actually brings in much money yet. The -8 isn't selling and -9 is getting cancelled right and left.

the 777-8 isn't selling because there are none TO sell. the -8 is probably akin to the -300 but with a damn lot of range with that folding Wingtip. Whether anyone EVER needs the -9? They might very well want or need the -8.
 
randomdude83
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 11:09 pm

Opus99 wrote:
JerseyFlyer wrote:
I guess the 5 Etihad 3510s are paid for. Hence the term "abandon". Or "fly tipping" maybe??!!

Yes they’ve been paid for. Those planes are marked as delivered by Airbus


If they're paid for already. The a35k is some 21% more efficient than operating the 77W.

If also they have their seats installed which is the big question, it doesn't make any sense to abandon the a35k. to me the more operationally expensive 77W should be the one retired, take the a380 crew or the former a340 crew and train them on the a350. its likely those 77w won't be filled at all and will be more expensive to operate versus the a35K.
 
Opus99
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 11:27 pm

randomdude83 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
JerseyFlyer wrote:
I guess the 5 Etihad 3510s are paid for. Hence the term "abandon". Or "fly tipping" maybe??!!

Yes they’ve been paid for. Those planes are marked as delivered by Airbus


If they're paid for already. The a35k is some 21% more efficient than operating the 77W.

If also they have their seats installed which is the big question, it doesn't make any sense to abandon the a35k. to me the more operationally expensive 77W should be the one retired, take the a380 crew or the former a340 crew and train them on the a350. its likely those 77w won't be filled at all and will be more expensive to operate versus the a35K.

They still need to pay the finance back on the aircraft I believe. It’s been paid for via financing, so the facility still needs to be paid back
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Fri May 22, 2020 1:44 am

So if Etihad does ground their A380s permanently, that's the end of the Residences right? We'll likely never see anything like it in a commercial aircraft ever again? Plus with even Emirates reportedly already considering retiring at least some of their A380s, it makes me wonder if inflight showers have any future in commercial aviation. If anything, I'm surprised that neither of them have installed showers on their 777s yet.
 
9Patch
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Fri May 22, 2020 2:04 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
So if Etihad does ground their A380s permanently, that's the end of the Residences right? We'll likely never see anything like it in a commercial aircraft ever again? Plus with even Emirates reportedly already considering retiring at least some of their A380s, it makes me wonder if inflight showers have any future in commercial aviation. If anything, I'm surprised that neither of them have installed showers on their 777s yet.


How popular were inflight showers?
I assume they were limited to passengers who booked first class suites.
Did you have to wear a seat belt while showering?
I'd hate to be all soaped up and slippery when you hit turbulence.
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Fri May 22, 2020 2:08 am

9Patch wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:
So if Etihad does ground their A380s permanently, that's the end of the Residences right? We'll likely never see anything like it in a commercial aircraft ever again? Plus with even Emirates reportedly already considering retiring at least some of their A380s, it makes me wonder if inflight showers have any future in commercial aviation. If anything, I'm surprised that neither of them have installed showers on their 777s yet.


How popular were inflight showers?
I assume they were limited to passengers who booked first class suites.


They were very popular among flight reviews and others who did use them. Also, first class isn't limited to the 777. In fact I think at least one other airline (Emirates?) already has a bar on some of its 777s, a feature that is more associated with the A380. It probably shouldn't be too hard to install a shower on a 777 if someone wanted to, but perhaps it doesn't make economic sense.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Fri May 22, 2020 2:10 am

Discuss the topic, not other users. This is your warning.
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
as739x
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Fri May 22, 2020 2:17 am

Antarius wrote:
SEPilot wrote:
Jefford717 wrote:
Understandable. Why add another type of aircraft in your fleet when demand isn’t there?

Any idea what’s going to happen to the 5 A350-1000 that are already built but never put to service?

Travel IS going to recover, the question is when. With A380s and 747s gone there will be a place for the A3510 and the 779, and 5 shiny new A3510s will find a home somewhere. Meanwhile hordes of lawyers will find gainful if not productive employment fighting over their fate.


I could see CX taking them eventually.


Why?

They are working on streamlining their fleet, absorbing HK Express and the ongoing issues now and in the future with HK/China. Just curious why they'd pick up A380s
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
Jetport
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Fri May 22, 2020 2:35 am

randomdude83 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
JerseyFlyer wrote:
I guess the 5 Etihad 3510s are paid for. Hence the term "abandon". Or "fly tipping" maybe??!!

Yes they’ve been paid for. Those planes are marked as delivered by Airbus


If they're paid for already. The a35k is some 21% more efficient than operating the 77W.

If also they have their seats installed which is the big question, it doesn't make any sense to abandon the a35k. to me the more operationally expensive 77W should be the one retired, take the a380 crew or the former a340 crew and train them on the a350. its likely those 77w won't be filled at all and will be more expensive to operate versus the a35K.


The reason is that they have a lot more 777's than A350's and most if not all of that 21% in efficiency is eaten up by having a very small fleet of another type (crews, spares, parts etc.). Seems like Covid is finally teaching many airlines what LUV and all of their imitators like Ryanair have been trying to teach them forever about fleet simplicity.
 
Antarius
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Fri May 22, 2020 3:58 am

as739x wrote:
Antarius wrote:
SEPilot wrote:
Travel IS going to recover, the question is when. With A380s and 747s gone there will be a place for the A3510 and the 779, and 5 shiny new A3510s will find a home somewhere. Meanwhile hordes of lawyers will find gainful if not productive employment fighting over their fate.


I could see CX taking them eventually.


Why?

They are working on streamlining their fleet, absorbing HK Express and the ongoing issues now and in the future with HK/China. Just curious why they'd pick up A380s


I was referring to the stored a35K, not the a380.

They currently have a350-1000s and as part of their longhaul fleet renewal and transition to the a350, they would fit in nicely.
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Fri May 22, 2020 4:18 am

mxaxai wrote:
Jefford717 wrote:
Any idea what’s going to happen to the 5 A350-1000 that are already built but never put to service?

Maybe scrap for spare parts? Store indefinitely in a nice dry place? Not many other customers for the -1000.


What about lease to another airline?
 
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seahawk
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Fri May 22, 2020 5:34 am

A necessary first step at adjusting fleet size.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Fri May 22, 2020 9:03 am

SEPilot wrote:
With A380s and 747s gone there will be a place for the A3510 and the 779, and 5 shiny new A3510s will find a home somewhere. Meanwhile hordes of lawyers will find gainful if not productive employment fighting over their fate.


Comment of the week - well done! :lol:

Jetport wrote:
randomdude83 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Yes they’ve been paid for. Those planes are marked as delivered by Airbus


If they're paid for already. The a35k is some 21% more efficient than operating the 77W.

If also they have their seats installed which is the big question, it doesn't make any sense to abandon the a35k. to me the more operationally expensive 77W should be the one retired, take the a380 crew or the former a340 crew and train them on the a350. its likely those 77w won't be filled at all and will be more expensive to operate versus the a35K.


The reason is that they have a lot more 777's than A350's and most if not all of that 21% in efficiency is eaten up by having a very small fleet of another type (crews, spares, parts etc.).


And how many 77Ws do they actually need in a Post Pandemic world? Retire the 77Ws and replace the 77W flying with the five A350s and all the many 787-9/10s they have on order. Retire the A380s too.

I can't see the 777-9 having much of a future with the airline. They don't need them, can't afford them and will never be able to finance (at a reasonable rate) such an illiquid asset - lessors won't be interested. Even if they didn't have any 777-9s in their order book, the large backlog of 787 orders is more than enough for them.
First to fly the 787-9
 
Opus99
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Fri May 22, 2020 9:12 am

zkojq wrote:
SEPilot wrote:
With A380s and 747s gone there will be a place for the A3510 and the 779, and 5 shiny new A3510s will find a home somewhere. Meanwhile hordes of lawyers will find gainful if not productive employment fighting over their fate.


Comment of the week - well done! :lol:

Jetport wrote:
randomdude83 wrote:

If they're paid for already. The a35k is some 21% more efficient than operating the 77W.

If also they have their seats installed which is the big question, it doesn't make any sense to abandon the a35k. to me the more operationally expensive 77W should be the one retired, take the a380 crew or the former a340 crew and train them on the a350. its likely those 77w won't be filled at all and will be more expensive to operate versus the a35K.


The reason is that they have a lot more 777's than A350's and most if not all of that 21% in efficiency is eaten up by having a very small fleet of another type (crews, spares, parts etc.).


And how many 77Ws do they actually need in a Post Pandemic world? Retire the 77Ws and replace the 77W flying with the five A350s and all the many 787-9/10s they have on order. Retire the A380s too.

I can't see the 777-9 having much of a future with the airline. They don't need them, can't afford them and will never be able to finance (at a reasonable rate) such an illiquid asset - lessors won't be interested. Even if they didn't have any 777-9s in their order book, the large backlog of 787 orders is more than enough for them.

And where’s the economical sense in operating 5 A350s? It’s not a matter of how many 77Ws you need, it’s a matter of as Etihad is now. Which one makes more sense to operate? They’ve just done a huge sale and leaseback of the 77Ws so they can’t walk out of those leases easily. An aircraft like that you need to double digits at the very least for it to make size to a carrier the size of Etihad. They don’t have the money to pay for the 779 which is why it has been significantly deferred. They will want them eventually to replace the 77W and A380. I don’t think they’ll take the 8 778s but 17 779s starting from 2025/2026 seems apt to me. This 779 outlook I mean, everybody has an opinion for an aircraft that hasn’t even been given a chance to see whether it will perform as expected and if it doesn’t then we can sign it off. The A35K is fantastic but it’s not for everybody please neither is the 779 too. The large wide body market will be split between them, depending on the kind of routes you serve.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Fri May 22, 2020 9:30 am

The ME 3, including Eithad, have to do significant rationalization of their fleets and business models to survive the Pandemic's sudden collapse of business and likely longer term (1-4 years) lower demand. Eventually the financial advantages the ME 3 have will decline, labor costs will go up, many will not want to transit through the ME 3's hubs as more direct flights via non-ME 3 airlines and likely growing competition from China based airliners with advantages of low labor and other costs.
 
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flee
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Fri May 22, 2020 9:35 am

Frankly, I don't think EY will survive Covid-19. So we can say goodbye to all their aircraft in the next year or two.
 
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calstanford
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Fri May 22, 2020 9:49 am

Agreed. They were a basket case with no clear strategy even at good times. What’s the reason for Etihad’s existance? Abu Dhabi is small and could very well be served by literally anyone else in the region.
 
Opus99
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Fri May 22, 2020 10:04 am

flee wrote:
Frankly, I don't think EY will survive Covid-19. So we can say goodbye to all their aircraft in the next year or two.

On this case. I can envisage a shrink of both Emirates and Etihad and then a merger
 
VSMUT
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Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Fri May 22, 2020 10:24 am

calstanford wrote:
What’s the reason for Etihad’s existance? Abu Dhabi is small and could very well be served by literally anyone else in the region.


Etihad serves the same role to Abu Dhabi as Emirates does for Dubai, to assist in growing the city and economy by attracting business, expats and tourists. I agree that they are a poorly run basket case, but without a dedicated airline, Abu Dhabi would likely have been relegated to a secondary city on the outskirts of Dubai. Contrary to the name, they aren't as United as they probably should be in this case.

Had they been more cooperative, a HSR line from DXB to Abu Dhabi center could have whisked travellers there in some 35 minutes, 25 minutes from Al Makhtoum.

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