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Westerwaelder
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Re: British Airways network updates

Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:55 pm

LH658 wrote:
factsonly wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Anyone have a list of all 15 destinations being dropped/suspended?


Thirteen destinations are being permanently cut from the oneworld alliance member’s schedule, while three more are being suspended until October.

- Charleston (CHS)
- Pittsburgh (PIT)
- Calgary (YYC)
- Lima (LIM)
- Durban (DUR)
- Abu Dhabi (AUH)
- Dammam (DMM)
- Muscat (MCT)
- Kuala Lumpur (KUL)
- Osaka (KIX) i
- Seoul Incheon (ICN)
- Seychelles (SEZ)
- Jeddah (JED)

- Bangkok Suvarnabhumi (BKK) returns W21
- Sydney (SYD) returns W21
- San Jose (SJC) returns W21

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... oute-cuts/


Surprising one is Muscat, as Oman and UK have so much cooperation, trade, and business since day 1. Lot of military ties as well.


For years it was going through AUH, even before Oman Air started their expansion.That suggests there is not so much traffic going between the two. Shame to see it go though from the BA network.

Any update on the conflicting information about LHE? Looks like it's staying?
 
Westerwaelder
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Re: British Airways network updates

Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:58 pm

factsonly wrote:
The second week of December 2020 saw increased operations for BA, while LHR had the highest growth rate in Europe.
November passenger numbers were relatively low due to the UK lock down.

December 16th, 2020 versus December 2nd, 2020:
- Turkish Airlines 578 flights on 16 December no change vs 2 December
- Air France (378 flights, +52%, +129 flights),
- Widerøe (322, +9%, +27),
- DHL Express (313, +3%, +8),
- KLM (313, +25%, +63),
- Lufthansa (307, +36%, 81),
- SAS (236, +3%, +6),
- Pegasus(211, -7%, -15),
- British Airways (191, +122%, +105)
- Qatar Airways(179 , +5%, +9).
- Ryanair (167 flights, down 33%)
- easyJet (101 flights, up 189%)

and airports for 16 December vs December 2:

- AMS 537 Dep/Arr flights (+23% over 2 weeks)
- CDG (504, +28%),
- FRA (492, +30%),
- IST (485, -1%),
- LHR (463, +44%),
- MAD (416, +12%),
- SAW (305, -7%),
- OSL (264, +17%),
- CGN (252, +4%)
- LEJ (226, -2%).

November 2020 - Airport Passengers numbers:

- AMS 900.453 (-83%)
- LHR 746.954 (-88%)
- FRA 656.420 (-87%)
- CDG 632,451 (-89%)

https://www.eurocontrol.int/sites/defau ... 122020.pdf

and airport traffic data.


LHR growth comes on the back of the second lockdown when flights to the UK all but collapsed. Not surprised by these figures. The uncertainty about travel restrictions in the UK us killing air travel off.
 
LH658
Posts: 1285
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: British Airways network updates

Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:05 pm

Westerwaelder wrote:
LH658 wrote:
factsonly wrote:

Thirteen destinations are being permanently cut from the oneworld alliance member’s schedule, while three more are being suspended until October.

- Charleston (CHS)
- Pittsburgh (PIT)
- Calgary (YYC)
- Lima (LIM)
- Durban (DUR)
- Abu Dhabi (AUH)
- Dammam (DMM)
- Muscat (MCT)
- Kuala Lumpur (KUL)
- Osaka (KIX) i
- Seoul Incheon (ICN)
- Seychelles (SEZ)
- Jeddah (JED)

- Bangkok Suvarnabhumi (BKK) returns W21
- Sydney (SYD) returns W21
- San Jose (SJC) returns W21

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... oute-cuts/


Surprising one is Muscat, as Oman and UK have so much cooperation, trade, and business since day 1. Lot of military ties as well.


For years it was going through AUH, even before Oman Air started their expansion.That suggests there is not so much traffic going between the two. Shame to see it go though from the BA netwo

Any update on the conflicting information about LHE? Looks like it's staying?


I don't see Lahore on the list as well, though after March until November I don't see any Lahore flights available on BA.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1361
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: British Airways network updates

Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:31 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
factsonly wrote:
San Jose (SJC) returns W21

Thanks, though fairly sure the San Jose that's returning is SJO (Costa Rica), not SJC (California) which isn't scheduled to be dropped/suspended.

The article cited specifies that it’s San Jose in the US. “San Jose (SJC) in the US is also on hold from April 17 until the winter.”
 
marcogr12
Posts: 602
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Re: British Airways network updates

Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:32 pm

Has BA decided if they will keep the pre-pandemic LGW short-haul network for S21 or if they will transfer it again to LHR?
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
LH658
Posts: 1285
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Re: British Airways network updates

Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:58 pm

LH658 wrote:
Westerwaelder wrote:
LH658 wrote:

Surprising one is Muscat, as Oman and UK have so much cooperation, trade, and business since day 1. Lot of military ties as well.


For years it was going through AUH, even before Oman Air started their expansion.That suggests there is not so much traffic going between the two. Shame to see it go though from the BA netwo

Any update on the conflicting information about LHE? Looks like it's staying?


I don't see Lahore on the list as well, though after March until November I don't see any Lahore flights available on BA.


Lahore isn't canceled the Pakistani Authorities are playing a little feud with BA/UK Government due to PIA is still banned from the UK and Europe.
 
Fiend
Posts: 214
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Re: British Airways network updates

Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:12 am

GBNWB wrote:
Do you mean flying the 777 from LGW-MAN or having a MAN based 777 and the pax coming up from LGW on a shuttle to connect? The only efficient way to do it seems to be the way BA are planning, that being Punjabis up here flying to London to connect onto the LGW outbound.

Living in MAN I don't really understand this anti BA/London sentiment from some posters. People seem to complain they cant fly direct from MAN to wherever but then fly MAN-DXB-XXX. I enjoy connecting through T5, I really don't see what the issue is.


I live quite a bit north of MAN and have flown via LHR once...... never again!!! I'd much rather fly via the Middle East than via LHR
BAC 1-11, A300, A320, A321, A330, A340, A350, A380, B737, B747, B757, B777, B787, L1011, Fokker 100, ATR 72, MD83
 
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flee
Posts: 1437
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Re: British Airways network updates

Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:41 am

I am not surprised to see KUL dropped altogether. This market is very price sensitive and with the current travel bans and quarantines, there is a distinct lack of demand for international travel. One of my friends flew on BA34 (KUL-LHR) in October and has commented that the load was very thin. Less than 50 pax on board the B789!
 
LH658
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: British Airways network updates

Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:16 am

Lahore is back online again and available for booking.
 
TC957
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Re: British Airways network updates

Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:02 pm

With all these routes getting culled, and more 787-10's and A350's coming in, plus 2 more 77W's, I think BA will dispose of all the LHR-based 772's sooner rather than later. Can't see them being of any use going forward.
 
Opus99
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Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: British Airways network updates

Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:45 pm

TC957 wrote:
With all these routes getting culled, and more 787-10's and A350's coming in, plus 2 more 77W's, I think BA will dispose of all the LHR-based 772's sooner rather than later. Can't see them being of any use going forward.

I think the 787-10 will come in nicely to takeover those LHR based 77Es. I agree with this
 
BA777FO
Posts: 581
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Re: British Airways network updates

Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:26 pm

Opus99 wrote:
TC957 wrote:
With all these routes getting culled, and more 787-10's and A350's coming in, plus 2 more 77W's, I think BA will dispose of all the LHR-based 772's sooner rather than later. Can't see them being of any use going forward.

I think the 787-10 will come in nicely to takeover those LHR based 77Es. I agree with this


The 787-10 is a fine replacement for the GE 777s, but only 12 were ordered. There are what, ~30ish LHR based 777s plus 14 LGW airframes that will be even harder to replace. The 787-10 doesn't have the legs or performance for some of the RR 777 destinations, that'll fall to the 787-9. But certainly BA will have another decision to make in 5-10 years time. But at the moment, the cargo capabilities of the 777s are invaluable. They'll be sticking around a while longer as they're still relatively cheap to operate and will be needed with 31 747s disposed of and 12 A380s unlikely to come back in any meaningful respect soon.
 
Opus99
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: British Airways network updates

Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:29 pm

BA777FO wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
TC957 wrote:
With all these routes getting culled, and more 787-10's and A350's coming in, plus 2 more 77W's, I think BA will dispose of all the LHR-based 772's sooner rather than later. Can't see them being of any use going forward.

I think the 787-10 will come in nicely to takeover those LHR based 77Es. I agree with this


The 787-10 is a fine replacement for the GE 777s, but only 12 were ordered. There are what, ~30ish LHR based 777s plus 14 LGW airframes that will be even harder to replace. The 787-10 doesn't have the legs or performance for some of the RR 777 destinations, that'll fall to the 787-9. But certainly BA will have another decision to make in 5-10 years time. But at the moment, the cargo capabilities of the 777s are invaluable. They'll be sticking around a while longer as they're still relatively cheap to operate and will be needed with 31 747s disposed of and 12 A380s unlikely to come back in any meaningful respect soon.

I think BA might top up their order for 12. I don’t expect the -10s to carry the RR routes. I hear the -10s cargo capabilities are very impressive as well!
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: British Airways network updates

Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:02 pm

BA777FO wrote:
The 787-10 is a fine replacement for the GE 777s, but only 12 were ordered. There are what, ~30ish LHR based 777s plus 14 LGW airframes that will be even harder to replace. The 787-10 doesn't have the legs or performance for some of the RR 777 destinations, that'll fall to the 787-9. But certainly BA will have another decision to make in 5-10 years time. But at the moment, the cargo capabilities of the 777s are invaluable. They'll be sticking around a while longer as they're still relatively cheap to operate and will be needed with 31 747s disposed of and 12 A380s unlikely to come back in any meaningful respect soon.

They could always order A359, which is essentially a 1-on-1 replacement for their RR 77Es, offering more range and better fuel economy at that.

With the A35K already there, wouldn't really cost them anything.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
oldJoe
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:04 pm

Re: British Airways network updates

Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:39 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
BA777FO wrote:
The 787-10 is a fine replacement for the GE 777s, but only 12 were ordered. There are what, ~30ish LHR based 777s plus 14 LGW airframes that will be even harder to replace. The 787-10 doesn't have the legs or performance for some of the RR 777 destinations, that'll fall to the 787-9. But certainly BA will have another decision to make in 5-10 years time. But at the moment, the cargo capabilities of the 777s are invaluable. They'll be sticking around a while longer as they're still relatively cheap to operate and will be needed with 31 747s disposed of and 12 A380s unlikely to come back in any meaningful respect soon.

They could always order A359, which is essentially a 1-on-1 replacement for their RR 77Es, offering more range and better fuel economy at that.

With the A35K already there, wouldn't really cost them anything.


Without politics the A359 would be the right choice for IAG when we keep in mind that Iberia will have 20 in their fleet at some point.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: British Airways network updates

Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:13 pm

oldJoe wrote:
Without politics the A359 would be the right choice for IAG when we keep in mind that Iberia will have 20 in their fleet at some point.

IAG is just a holding. Commonality doesn't mean much of anything seeing as its members (in general) don't share mtx in common; and IAG orders in such quantity that any given subfleets can be at sufficient scale.

That BA already has the A35K is a far bigger pull on any potential decision to go with A359s than anything to do with IB.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
oldJoe
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:04 pm

Re: British Airways network updates

Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:32 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
oldJoe wrote:
Without politics the A359 would be the right choice for IAG when we keep in mind that Iberia will have 20 in their fleet at some point.

IAG is just a holding. Commonality doesn't mean much of anything seeing as its members (in general) don't share mtx in common; and IAG orders in such quantity that any given subfleets can be at sufficient scale.

That BA already has the A35K is a far bigger pull on any potential decision to go with A359s than anything to do with IB.


In general I absolutely aggree with you . I don`t know yet , where the A350 series have their MTX . Given that IAG is registered in Spain which has a much lower labor cost over the UK I would asume these would be performed in Spain ?
 
787pk
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British Airlines and Pakistan

Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:58 am

British Airways and Virgin Atlantic, both these British Airlines have started its operation in Pakistan.
Currently operation is limited to Islamabad (ISB) and Lahore (LHE) limited flights are operating to these cities and hopefully going forward they will both look into expanding to KHI the historic aviation city. I do not have exact information with respect to passenger loads and cargo details but PIA Administration has taken the case of enforcing restrictions on both operators to the Prime Minister Of Pakistan, after years of decaying service from PK The Gulf Carriers have taken lots of market share from PK and likewise BA and VS will do the same but by competing, Government Of Pakistan must refrain from interfering and allow competition so PK can learn to restore its attitude and service levels.
 
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IceCream
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Re: British Airlines and Pakistan

Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:21 am

I really don't think Karachi will be added (yet). It would probably take away from the existing ISB and LHE services, and after all, COVID is still a thing. It could happen in a few years (if it even happens), but I really wouldn't bet on it yet.
 
LH658
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: British Airlines and Pakistan

Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:11 am

This has already been discuss many times.

Karachi distance to the airport and traffic flow is a security risk for Foreign Flight crews. Karachi it's self is less safe than, Lahore or Islamabad. 2nd GCC carriers have more frequencies out of Karachi, then Lahore and Islamabad due to bilateral agreements. Islamabad and Karachi is much more high yielding versus Karachi. The diasporas of Karachites compared to Punjabis is out numbered. PIA only had 1 weekly flight from KHI to LHR, compared to LHE and ISB having flights to BCN, MAN, LHR, BHX, OSL, CPH, MXP, YYZ, JFK, and etc. . Larger cities such as Multan, Peshawar, Faisalabad, Sialkot, and etc aren't far drive from Lahore or Islamabad. Both cities are also have higher cargo loads, than Karachi.

Karachi is only historic, cause it's airport was sufficient of those times, it was much more liberal city and business hub during the early days of Pakistan, when Islamabad didn't exist, and Lahore was very much conservative and cultural. Karachi was used as fuel stop mainly, as aircrafts became more effeicent and could fly longer ranges, Karachi become obsolete, and as EK grew it stole lot of PIA shine.

PIA is in such conditions due to it's management incompetency, and the state government corruption.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: British Airlines and Pakistan

Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:47 pm

787pk wrote:
British Airways and Virgin Atlantic, both these British Airlines have started its operation in Pakistan.
Currently operation is limited to Islamabad (ISB) and Lahore (LHE) limited flights are operating to these cities and hopefully going forward they will both look into expanding to KHI the historic aviation city. I do not have exact information with respect to passenger loads and cargo details but PIA Administration has taken the case of enforcing restrictions on both operators to the Prime Minister Of Pakistan, after years of decaying service from PK The Gulf Carriers have taken lots of market share from PK and likewise BA and VS will do the same but by competing, Government Of Pakistan must refrain from interfering and allow competition so PK can learn to restore its attitude and service levels.


I believe safety is the issue with Karachi.

Also Karachi was a key historic city because of shorter range aircraft, needing a stop somewhere. Dubai & Doha hadn't developed yet. A different era.

The Pakistani diaspora in the UK is mostly Punjabi or Kashmiri. Islamabad and Lahore are more useful for them obviously.
 
tonystan
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Re: British Airlines and Pakistan

Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:25 am

BA has already announced the move of the ISB route to LGW. Although not a sign of weakness it does suggest that perhaps yield is not great on this route but demand high!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
Toinou
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Re: British Airlines and Pakistan

Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:18 am

It may also suggest, not surprisingly, that this is a route relying mostly on O/D traffic.
 
behramjee
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Re: British Airlines and Pakistan

Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:53 am

The primary reason why BA changed ISB from LHR to LGW is because a vast majority of the traffic is London bound along with Manchester for them. Their S21 LGW-MAN-LGW connects very well both ways to ISB as this makes sense focusing on the more higher yielding UK-ISB traffic instead of a mix of UK + North America. The latter can be catered to by VS.

The Pakistani community in London reside closer to LHR and LTN hence it will be interesting to see how much market share VS manages to poach away from BA on LON-ISB-LON.

FYI, EU has further extended PIA's ban till end March 2021 and said officially that they will not lift it until they themselves audit PAK CAA.
 
AstanaMagic
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Re: British Airlines and Pakistan

Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:14 pm

behramjee wrote:
The primary reason why BA changed ISB from LHR to LGW is because a vast majority of the traffic is London bound along with Manchester for them. Their S21 LGW-MAN-LGW connects very well both ways to ISB as this makes sense focusing on the more higher yielding UK-ISB traffic instead of a mix of UK + North America. The latter can be catered to by VS.

The Pakistani community in London reside closer to LHR and LTN hence it will be interesting to see how much market share VS manages to poach away from BA on LON-ISB-LON.

FYI, EU has further extended PIA's ban till end March 2021 and said officially that they will not lift it until they themselves audit PAK CAA.


And LHR doesn’t have connectivity to MAN with BA? I don’t disagree with you, but come on it’s not the primary reason, LHR has much better connectivity to MAN. You could also argue that LGW has better access to the LTN area due to ThamesLink.
2020: AGP, KSQ, LGW, LHR, MXP, SVQ, TAS, XRY, ZRH
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Crosswind
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Re: British Airlines and Pakistan

Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:48 pm

behramjee wrote:
The primary reason why BA changed ISB from LHR to LGW is because a vast majority of the traffic is London bound along with Manchester for them. Their S21 LGW-MAN-LGW connects very well both ways to ISB as this makes sense focusing on the more higher yielding UK-ISB traffic instead of a mix of UK + North America. The latter can be catered to by VS.

The Pakistani community in London reside closer to LHR and LTN hence it will be interesting to see how much market share VS manages to poach away from BA on LON-ISB-LON.

FYI, EU has further extended PIA's ban till end March 2021 and said officially that they will not lift it until they themselves audit PAK CAA.


The primary reason is that the aircraft at LHR are too premium heavy for the route... there is limited premium demand, most traffic is looking for competitive economy fares in the VFR market. As 777 refurbishments progress... the 3 class layout for the RR powered 777 fleet will become 48J 40W 184Y, which doesn’t give the right balance for the market. The refurbished Gatwick 777s are configured 32J 48W 252Y (RR powered aircraft) or 32J 52W 252Y (GE powered aircraft) The LGW refurbishment is now complete, aside from some aircraft that are due to move over from LHR and be refurbished at that point.

The Gatwick layout gives 68 more economy seats to sell and reducing the chances of having to offer upgrades when economy is full. It’s interesting to note that Pakistan Airlines 777 fleet is also in a premium light, economy heavy layout.
 
behramjee
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Re: British Airlines and Pakistan

Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:39 pm

Crosswind wrote:
behramjee wrote:
The primary reason why BA changed ISB from LHR to LGW is because a vast majority of the traffic is London bound along with Manchester for them. Their S21 LGW-MAN-LGW connects very well both ways to ISB as this makes sense focusing on the more higher yielding UK-ISB traffic instead of a mix of UK + North America. The latter can be catered to by VS.

The Pakistani community in London reside closer to LHR and LTN hence it will be interesting to see how much market share VS manages to poach away from BA on LON-ISB-LON.

FYI, EU has further extended PIA's ban till end March 2021 and said officially that they will not lift it until they themselves audit PAK CAA.


The primary reason is that the aircraft at LHR are too premium heavy for the route... there is limited premium demand, most traffic is looking for competitive economy fares in the VFR market. As 777 refurbishments progress... the 3 class layout for the RR powered 777 fleet will become 48J 40W 184Y, which doesn’t give the right balance for the market. The refurbished Gatwick 777s are configured 32J 48W 252Y (RR powered aircraft) or 32J 52W 252Y (GE powered aircraft) The LGW refurbishment is now complete, aside from some aircraft that are due to move over from LHR and be refurbished at that point.

The Gatwick layout gives 68 more economy seats to sell and reducing the chances of having to offer upgrades when economy is full. It’s interesting to note that Pakistan Airlines 777 fleet is also in a premium light, economy heavy layout.


I agree with your statement but it is also confusing with regards to BA logic because if thats the case then how come Lahore did not also get moved to LGW and remains at LHR since the yield on LHE is a bit lower than ISB + the p2p demand is 40% less too ! ISB has much more premium demand to UK than LHE but the latter has much higher trans-atlantic demand in comparison.
 
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Crosswind
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Re: British Airlines and Pakistan

Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:54 pm

behramjee wrote:
I agree with your statement but it is also confusing with regards to BA logic because if thats the case then how come Lahore did not also get moved to LGW and remains at LHR since the yield on LHE is a bit lower than ISB + the p2p demand is 40% less too ! ISB has much more premium demand to UK than LHE but the latter has much higher trans-atlantic demand in comparison.


Lahore remained at LHR for 2 primary reasons, both of which you mentioned in your post.

While Islamabad is primarily UK/Pakistan O&D traffic, Lahore relies much more on connecting traffic so it makes sense to keep it at Heathrow due to the huge number of connecting opportunities from BA’s huge Trans Atlantic network.

Even if the UK-Lahore market is smaller, attractive connections will help fill the front end since the aircraft is no doubt slightly too premium heavy for the route. With less overall demand, and need to rely on connections to fill the aircraft, the 787-8 is probably a better overall aircraft.

The need to offer a range of connections and a smaller aircraft for Lahore, contrast with Islamabad which has a huge UK demand that can be efficiently filled from Gatwick in an aircraft suited to the market. While the Gatwick 777s don’t feature the Club Suites, they have been refurbished in every other respect - featuring the same seating in World Traveller Plus and World Traveller as the A350 and 787-10, as well as the same Panasonic efx entertainment system as those types. In fact it’s the same World Traveller Plus seat that Emirates have just trotted out as revolutionary!

https://mediacentre.britishairways.com/image/details/105809
https://mediacentre.britishairways.com/image/details/114658
 
ZuluTime
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Re: British Airlines and Pakistan

Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:41 pm

On-topic but off-topic in a way: can anyone explain what BA is doing with LGW-Doha? It seems very strange to be putting this route at Gatwick and flying it with a high-density 777, and I'm wondering if this has something to do with onward connections with QR.
 
LH658
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Re: British Airlines and Pakistan

Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:50 pm

ZuluTime wrote:
On-topic but off-topic in a way: can anyone explain what BA is doing with LGW-Doha? It seems very strange to be putting this route at Gatwick and flying it with a high-density 777, and I'm wondering if this has something to do with onward connections with QR.


Probably transfer leisure traffic on to QR, as BA did cut a bunch of leisure destinations like SEZ.
 
LH658
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Re: British Airlines and Pakistan

Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:53 pm

Crosswind wrote:
behramjee wrote:
The primary reason why BA changed ISB from LHR to LGW is because a vast majority of the traffic is London bound along with Manchester for them. Their S21 LGW-MAN-LGW connects very well both ways to ISB as this makes sense focusing on the more higher yielding UK-ISB traffic instead of a mix of UK + North America. The latter can be catered to by VS.

The Pakistani community in London reside closer to LHR and LTN hence it will be interesting to see how much market share VS manages to poach away from BA on LON-ISB-LON.

FYI, EU has further extended PIA's ban till end March 2021 and said officially that they will not lift it until they themselves audit PAK CAA.


The primary reason is that the aircraft at LHR are too premium heavy for the route... there is limited premium demand, most traffic is looking for competitive economy fares in the VFR market. As 777 refurbishments progress... the 3 class layout for the RR powered 777 fleet will become 48J 40W 184Y, which doesn’t give the right balance for the market. The refurbished Gatwick 777s are configured 32J 48W 252Y (RR powered aircraft) or 32J 52W 252Y (GE powered aircraft) The LGW refurbishment is now complete, aside from some aircraft that are due to move over from LHR and be refurbished at that point.

The Gatwick layout gives 68 more economy seats to sell and reducing the chances of having to offer upgrades when economy is full. It’s interesting to note that Pakistan Airlines 777 fleet is also in a premium light, economy heavy layout.


Surprised in general BA was sold out in all classes usually or near full on this flight. Though yes BA is just mainly targeting UK - ISB traffic, nothing else. I wish this route remained at Heathrow.
 
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Crosswind
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Re: British Airlines and Pakistan

Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:33 pm

LH658 wrote:
Surprised in general BA was sold out in all classes usually or near full on this flight. Though yes BA is just mainly targeting UK - ISB traffic, nothing else. I wish this route remained at Heathrow.


Tonight’s flight is being operated by G-YMME, which if you don’t know is LGW configured 777. So even though these flights are operating from LHR, they are generally now using LGW 777 aircraft which have been displaced. Even though the flights may sell out, they are doing so in a LGW layout and the prevailing demand is for a large number of economy class seats. When things start to return to normality... so the Gatwick 777 feel will return to Gatwick. Continuing the flights in a Heathrow aircraft would lead to emptier premium cabins, and turning away a huge amount of revenue from the economy cabin. Or you would need to be willing to overbook by economy by a crazy amount and then upgrade huge numbers of Y passengers to premium cabins. Total revenue would be the same, but the costs of the op ups would be higher - with BA they don’t differentiate the service including lounge access if you’re upgraded at check-in. Far better to match the route with a suitably configured aircraft.

I suspect similar reasoning for the Accra route moving to Gatwick, overwhelming demand for UK O&D traffic, and the need for a large economy cabin.
 
LH658
Posts: 1285
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: British Airlines and Pakistan

Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:50 pm

Crosswind wrote:
LH658 wrote:
Surprised in general BA was sold out in all classes usually or near full on this flight. Though yes BA is just mainly targeting UK - ISB traffic, nothing else. I wish this route remained at Heathrow.


Tonight’s flight is being operated by G-YMME, which if you don’t know is LGW configured 777. So even though these flights are operating from LHR, they are generally now using LGW 777 aircraft which have been displaced. Even though the flights may sell out, they are doing so in a LGW layout and the prevailing demand is for a large number of economy class seats. When things start to return to normality... so the Gatwick 777 feel will return to Gatwick. Continuing the flights in a Heathrow aircraft would lead to emptier premium cabins, and turning away a huge amount of revenue from the economy cabin. Or you would need to be willing to overbook by economy by a crazy amount and then upgrade huge numbers of Y passengers to premium cabins. Total revenue would be the same, but the costs of the op ups would be higher - with BA they don’t differentiate the service including lounge access if you’re upgraded at check-in. Far better to match the route with a suitably configured aircraft.

I suspect similar reasoning for the Accra route moving to Gatwick, overwhelming demand for UK O&D traffic, and the need for a large economy cabin.


I thought Accra picked up a bit of energy traffic from places like Houston, New York, and also picked up VFR traffic not just from Europe, but from NYC and IAD area. I guess KLM is doing well with that.
 
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Crosswind
Posts: 2647
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 4:34 am

Re: British Airlines and Pakistan

Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:26 pm

LH658 wrote:
I thought Accra picked up a bit of energy traffic from places like Houston, New York, and also picked up VFR traffic not just from Europe, but from NYC and IAD area. I guess KLM is doing well with that.


I think the energy sector and North American connections are far more important to the Nigerian routes. It was one of the major reasons why Lagos remained at Gatwick when Bermuda II kept the likes of Dallas and Houston at LGW too.

I’m sure BA have years of detailed information on the number and yield of connections of the Accra route. I can’t see any other compelling reason to move the route to Gatwick unless they feel it would enhance their competitive position. As things stand, there isn’t exactly pressure on LHR slots force the transfer of Accra or Islamabad to make way for another route.

What COVID 19 has done is press the reset button for airlines.
Networks evolve organically over years and decades.
With traffic almost zeroed for a time, airlines have reassessed their whole networks in detail. Looking at network contributions, challenged historical reasons for routes existence, or why it operated from a certain airport, or the schedule/frequency it did.

I’m sure any network changes that have been made by any airline recently have only been for 2 basic reasons;
Either to either enhance revenue or to cut losses.

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