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LJ
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Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Mon May 25, 2020 2:08 pm

Blerg wrote:
As for VIE, they are not pulling the plug, they are merely shifting their operations to a lower cost base. This will make them even more competitive against airlines like OS.


I think that they don't need to be more competitive against Austrian, they need to be to fight against Wizz Air.
 
leghorn
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Mon May 25, 2020 2:32 pm

I think they are lower cost than Wizz Air on everything already except Labour and Leases on Airframes and that is now addressed with this move.
They're back on cheap 737-800s which they own and they have the option of cheap Polish or Maltese labour or a combination of both.
 
asdf
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Mon May 25, 2020 2:43 pm

only to get the numbers right:

the employer suggestion was a salary from € 1.000,- per month
in austria you always get 14 months salary a year (because you have to get "Urlaubsgeld" and "Weihnachtsgeld")
so it would be a salary of € 14.000,- a year (USD 15.250,-)

if the comments in the news papers today are correct, this is only the salary if they idle (no flying hours at all, all year long)
each flying hour adds € 9,-
if you go for 30 flying hours, and five weeks payed holiday leave, it would be a additional salary of about + € 13.000,- a year (+ USD 14.100,-)

so total salary would be € 25.000,- (USD 27,250,-)

of course this are "brutto" numbers
the health insurance, the workless insurance, and all those insurances - which are mandatory in Austria - need to be calculated away
which leaves a yearly salary from about € 19.600,- a year what is equal to about U$D 21.500,-.

cost for the employer are higher because on his side he has to pay additional for the employes insurances and such
the total cost for the employer (including "Lohnnebenkosten") - following the suggestion of the employer from Friday would add up to about € 32,700 per attended (U$D 35.600,-) per year.

if you wanna check the numbers:
https://onlinerechner.haude.at/Brutto-Netto-Rechner
sorry, in German ...

employees before had agreed to that employers suggestion:
"95 Prozent des Cockpit-Personals und 70 Prozent des Kabinenpersonals hätten dem Vorschlag der Laudamotion-Geschäftsführung zugestimmt, heißt es in einem offenen Brief von Laudamotion-Beschäftigten an vida-Chef Roman Hebenstreit und an den Vorsitzenden des vida-Fachbereichs Luftfahrt, Daniel Liebhart."
feel free to translate by yourself ...
;-)

sources (German:)
https://www.kleinezeitung.at/wirtschaft ... ter-wollen
https://kurier.at/wirtschaft/laudamotio ... /400850777
Last edited by asdf on Mon May 25, 2020 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
oldJoe
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:04 pm

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Mon May 25, 2020 2:46 pm

leghorn wrote:
I think they are lower cost than Wizz Air on everything already except Labour and Leases on Airframes and that is now addressed with this move.
They're back on cheap 737-800s which they own and they have the option of cheap Polish or Maltese labour or a combination of both.


What you expect ? The Austrian government get kicked in their a**e and say thank you so much ? They have still the power over their country and can defend "cheap Polish and Maltese labour" in one or the other way
 
leghorn
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Mon May 25, 2020 2:49 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Single_Market

The European Single Market, Internal Market or Common Market is a single market which seeks to guarantee the free movement of goods, capital, services, and labour – the ‘four freedoms‘ – within the European Union (EU).
 
oldJoe
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:04 pm

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Mon May 25, 2020 3:15 pm

leghorn wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Single_Market

The European Single Market, Internal Market or Common Market is a single market which seeks to guarantee the free movement of goods, capital, services, and labour – the ‘four freedoms‘ – within the European Union (EU).


Nothing wrong with that , but raising fees is also not against the E.U law at all , is it ?!
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 9744
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Mon May 25, 2020 3:50 pm

asdf wrote:
only to get the numbers right:

the employer suggestion was a salary from € 1.000,- per month
in austria you always get 14 months salary a year (because you have to get "Urlaubsgeld" and "Weihnachtsgeld")
so it would be a salary of € 14.000,- a year (USD 15.250,-)

if the comments in the news papers today are correct, this is only the salary if they idle (no flying hours at all, all year long)
each flying hour adds € 9,-
if you go for 30 flying hours, and five weeks payed holiday leave, it would be a additional salary of about + € 13.000,- a year (+ USD 14.100,-)

so total salary would be € 25.000,- (USD 27,250,-)

of course this are "brutto" numbers
the health insurance, the workless insurance, and all those insurances - which are mandatory in Austria - need to be calculated away
which leaves a yearly salary from about € 19.600,- a year what is equal to about U$D 21.500,-.

cost for the employer are higher because on his side he has to pay additional for the employes insurances and such
the total cost for the employer (including "Lohnnebenkosten") - following the suggestion of the employer from Friday would add up to about € 32,700 per attended (U$D 35.600,-) per year.

if you wanna check the numbers:
https://onlinerechner.haude.at/Brutto-Netto-Rechner
sorry, in German ...

employees before had agreed to that employers suggestion:
"95 Prozent des Cockpit-Personals und 70 Prozent des Kabinenpersonals hätten dem Vorschlag der Laudamotion-Geschäftsführung zugestimmt, heißt es in einem offenen Brief von Laudamotion-Beschäftigten an vida-Chef Roman Hebenstreit und an den Vorsitzenden des vida-Fachbereichs Luftfahrt, Daniel Liebhart."
feel free to translate by yourself ...
;-)

sources (German:)
https://www.kleinezeitung.at/wirtschaft ... ter-wollen
https://kurier.at/wirtschaft/laudamotio ... /400850777


One correction though. Crews can not fly more than 900 hours a year due to safety regulations.
 
asdf
Posts: 704
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Mon May 25, 2020 5:39 pm

seahawk wrote:
asdf wrote:
only to get the numbers right:
One correction though. Crews can not fly more than 900 hours a year due to safety regulations.


sorry
so its about 5000,- "brutto" (or about 4000,- a year "netto") less
 
GLANKG
Posts: 107
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Mon May 25, 2020 6:20 pm

Blerg wrote:
Well they did give them an offer they hoped and expected would be refused. Don't see what's not to understand. I am still waiting for your claraficiation on what's the point you are trying to make.

As for VIE, they are not pulling the plug, they are merely shifting their operations to a lower cost base. This will make them even more competitive against airlines like OS.


My point being the net salary of €848 from one of the most 'profitable' airlines with huge cash reserve is unacceptable in Vienna where the poverty line is €1,259. Nothing surprising they refused the offer and fair play in my view. Your union bashing and shifting the blame of the base closure to union misleading and staffs being disillusioned is just cheap.
 
GLANKG
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Mon May 25, 2020 6:24 pm

There are reports suggesting FR started recruiting replacement for Austrian contacts in Spain and UK a week before the negotiation deadline, they probably realised Lauda was a lost course, their FY20 loss is hitting 200 million. Good chance MOL would reflect Vienna LCC bloodbath, Lauda had 15 A320s based in VIE before Covid-19 and expecting to grow significantly, I doubt the likes of Malta air would replace Lauda's capacity 1 for 1.
 
asdf
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Mon May 25, 2020 9:01 pm

[quote="GLANKG"]. Nothing surprising they refused the offer and fair play in my view. Your union bashing and shifting the blame of the base closure to union misleading and staffs being disillusioned is just cheap.[/quote]

you are simply wrong
the employees acceped
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Mon May 25, 2020 9:48 pm

I have never taken a Ryanair flight. I think that will remain the case. Even if they would offer free flights, I'd rather stay home.

Lately I have become pretty good at staying at home actually. Up until today I have spent seventy days in a row at less than one kilometre from my house. So far sixteen cancelled flights and five KLM-vouchers. Special times we are living in. Let's hope Ryanair will improve the working conditions of its crew.
 
Kilopond
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Mon May 25, 2020 10:19 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
I have never taken a Ryanair flight. I think that will remain the case. Even if they would offer free flights, I'd rather stay home.[...]


Same here, although I have to confess that I bought a bunch of their penny tickets many moons ago. But I changed my mind, did not use the bookings and of course did not care about any rediculous refunds.

I don‘t think I‘m going to deal with this disgusting company any time during the whole rest of my life.
 
GLANKG
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Mon May 25, 2020 10:23 pm

asdf wrote:
GLANKG wrote:
. Nothing surprising they refused the offer and fair play in my view. Your union bashing and shifting the blame of the base closure to union misleading and staffs being disillusioned is just cheap.


you are simply wrong
the employees acceped


I meant the union. KV is between union and employers, not employees, there is a reason for such practice.

P.S. the same FR statement also states these are 'well paid' jobs lol
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Mon May 25, 2020 10:25 pm

A person should fly an airline once, before making criticism. Not 100 times, but just once
A person who lacks first hand experience in something which is readily available may not have the full picture
 
GLANKG
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Mon May 25, 2020 10:31 pm

https://metropole.at/outrage-over-contr ... udamotion/

When FR fully took over Lauda the base salary was €1,500. The last KV signed in last autumn was already below the bar, including below minimum wage €1,130.63 per month which includes overtime, loss of job protections, and uniforms at their own expense. Such social dumping model is simply not sustainable in Austria. Malta and Poland have different social economics.
 
GLANKG
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Mon May 25, 2020 10:51 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
A person should fly an airline once, before making criticism. Not 100 times, but just once
A person who lacks first hand experience in something which is readily available may not have the full picture

I haven't criticised FR's products before, well I flew once with them from Rygge, it was such unique experience making Easyjet looking proper, but that's not the point here, the closure of Lauda is more of a labour issue rather than an aviation one. Regrettably there are always companies showing zero social responsibility such as the practice of Sportsdirect during the pandemic (coincidentally it's also the company that was ruled against for modern slavery offences in year 2019).

P.S. Lauda KV is already by far the cheapest KV in Austria, not just in aviation.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8487
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Tue May 26, 2020 2:34 am

GLANKG wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Well they did give them an offer they hoped and expected would be refused. Don't see what's not to understand. I am still waiting for your claraficiation on what's the point you are trying to make.

As for VIE, they are not pulling the plug, they are merely shifting their operations to a lower cost base. This will make them even more competitive against airlines like OS.


My point being the net salary of €848 from one of the most 'profitable' airlines with huge cash reserve is unacceptable in Vienna where the poverty line is €1,259. Nothing surprising they refused the offer and fair play in my view. Your union bashing and shifting the blame of the base closure to union misleading and staffs being disillusioned is just cheap.


Ryanair's profits don't determine wages - the market does. If Ryanair can't find enough pilots qualified to work in the EU at those wages it will pay more. Austrian (nationality, not the carrier) pilots may be disappointed to learn what market wages actually are.
 
Blerg
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Tue May 26, 2020 5:13 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
GLANKG wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Well they did give them an offer they hoped and expected would be refused. Don't see what's not to understand. I am still waiting for your claraficiation on what's the point you are trying to make.

As for VIE, they are not pulling the plug, they are merely shifting their operations to a lower cost base. This will make them even more competitive against airlines like OS.


My point being the net salary of €848 from one of the most 'profitable' airlines with huge cash reserve is unacceptable in Vienna where the poverty line is €1,259. Nothing surprising they refused the offer and fair play in my view. Your union bashing and shifting the blame of the base closure to union misleading and staffs being disillusioned is just cheap.


Ryanair's profits don't determine wages - the market does. If Ryanair can't find enough pilots qualified to work in the EU at those wages it will pay more. Austrian (nationality, not the carrier) pilots may be disappointed to learn what market wages actually are.


Exactly, that's what most people on here forget, Ryanair is successful because people keep on buying tickets to fly with them despite knowing what kind of airline they are. Also, I am really curious to see what happens in 2023 when OS will have to bring back its pilots' salaries to pre-corona levels.
 
GLANKG
Posts: 107
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Tue May 26, 2020 6:26 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
GLANKG wrote:

My point being the net salary of €848 from one of the most 'profitable' airlines with huge cash reserve is unacceptable in Vienna where the poverty line is €1,259. Nothing surprising they refused the offer and fair play in my view. Your union bashing and shifting the blame of the base closure to union misleading and staffs being disillusioned is just cheap.


Ryanair's profits don't determine wages - the market does. If Ryanair can't find enough pilots qualified to work in the EU at those wages it will pay more. Austrian (nationality, not the carrier) pilots may be disappointed to learn what market wages actually are.

You are right. Although it'd be clearer if I didn't describe FR there, profitable or not, you can hardly find people willing to accept €848 a month in Vienna.
 
RvA
Posts: 444
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Tue May 26, 2020 6:32 am

Blerg wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
GLANKG wrote:

My point being the net salary of €848 from one of the most 'profitable' airlines with huge cash reserve is unacceptable in Vienna where the poverty line is €1,259. Nothing surprising they refused the offer and fair play in my view. Your union bashing and shifting the blame of the base closure to union misleading and staffs being disillusioned is just cheap.


Ryanair's profits don't determine wages - the market does. If Ryanair can't find enough pilots qualified to work in the EU at those wages it will pay more. Austrian (nationality, not the carrier) pilots may be disappointed to learn what market wages actually are.


Exactly, that's what most people on here forget, Ryanair is successful because people keep on buying tickets to fly with them despite knowing what kind of airline they are. Also, I am really curious to see what happens in 2023 when OS will have to bring back its pilots' salaries to pre-corona levels.


Is that true though? I think anyone outside of this forum gives zero ducks about the airline industry so do people really know anything about Ryanair besides what directly affects them? I doubt anyone thinks or pays attention to working conditions or anything else that occasionally makes it into the news.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Tue May 26, 2020 8:06 am

The market rate for a pilot able to fly a 737 which begins its first flight out of VIE around 0830 will be quite low. The market rate for a pilot who can fly a 737 out of VIE at 0630 is significantly higher. It depends a bit on whether Ryanair wants to treat Vienna as a base or more of a focus city
 
Blerg
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Tue May 26, 2020 9:20 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
The market rate for a pilot able to fly a 737 which begins its first flight out of VIE around 0830 will be quite low. The market rate for a pilot who can fly a 737 out of VIE at 0630 is significantly higher. It depends a bit on whether Ryanair wants to treat Vienna as a base or more of a focus city


Well, Lauda's closure kind of answers your question. Seems like Ryanair knows that turning Vienna into a hub costs a lot given the circumstances so they are going to be focusing on serving it from elsewhere. Will be interesting to see how they rearrange their network and from where planes will come.
 
GLANKG
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Tue May 26, 2020 5:50 pm

Blerg wrote:
Well, Lauda's closure kind of answers your question. Seems like Ryanair knows that turning Vienna into a hub costs a lot given the circumstances so they are going to be focusing on serving it from elsewhere. Will be interesting to see how they rearrange their network and from where planes will come.

Ryanair doesn't do hubs, they operate bases, hub is not their model, it is costly as you said.
 
Blerg
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Wed May 27, 2020 5:30 am

GLANKG wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Well, Lauda's closure kind of answers your question. Seems like Ryanair knows that turning Vienna into a hub costs a lot given the circumstances so they are going to be focusing on serving it from elsewhere. Will be interesting to see how they rearrange their network and from where planes will come.

Ryanair doesn't do hubs, they operate bases, hub is not their model, it is costly as you said.


Well a hub is the effective centre of an activity, region, or network. It doesn't mean that if they have a hub somewhere that they operate transfers even though they experienced with that model in Rome.
 
LJ
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Wed May 27, 2020 5:42 am

Blerg wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
The market rate for a pilot able to fly a 737 which begins its first flight out of VIE around 0830 will be quite low. The market rate for a pilot who can fly a 737 out of VIE at 0630 is significantly higher. It depends a bit on whether Ryanair wants to treat Vienna as a base or more of a focus city


Well, Lauda's closure kind of answers your question. Seems like Ryanair knows that turning Vienna into a hub costs a lot given the circumstances so they are going to be focusing on serving it from elsewhere. Will be interesting to see how they rearrange their network and from where planes will come.


The correct thing to say is that Ryanair knows what the profit is from operating a base. If your first flight starts at 08:30AM it will be less appealing to your business oriented passengers than one at 06:30AM. As such one can expect yields to be higher for the 06:30 flight than that of the 08:30 flight. This isn't applicable to leisure destinations, but will impact more business oriented destinations.
 
Blerg
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Wed May 27, 2020 5:54 am

LJ wrote:
Blerg wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
The market rate for a pilot able to fly a 737 which begins its first flight out of VIE around 0830 will be quite low. The market rate for a pilot who can fly a 737 out of VIE at 0630 is significantly higher. It depends a bit on whether Ryanair wants to treat Vienna as a base or more of a focus city


Well, Lauda's closure kind of answers your question. Seems like Ryanair knows that turning Vienna into a hub costs a lot given the circumstances so they are going to be focusing on serving it from elsewhere. Will be interesting to see how they rearrange their network and from where planes will come.


The correct thing to say is that Ryanair knows what the profit is from operating a base. If your first flight starts at 08:30AM it will be less appealing to your business oriented passengers than one at 06:30AM. As such one can expect yields to be higher for the 06:30 flight than that of the 08:30 flight. This isn't applicable to leisure destinations, but will impact more business oriented destinations.


Like you said it yourself, Ryanair knows how to turn a profit meaning those 06.30 departures from VIE might not have been lucrative for them. Not because there is no market but rather because well established legacies have the upper hand. So why pursue this market when they can concentrate on leisure and ethnic traffic which is more price sensitive and less demanding? Perfect combo for them.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Wed May 27, 2020 6:05 am

GLANKG wrote:
Ryanair doesn't do hubs, they operate bases, hub is not their model, it is costly as you said.


Not entirely true. They do accommodate kind of a hub model based on self-transfers, where two flights are sold together. The price is just the price of the two flights added up.

Of course it's not their main business model, which remains point-to-point flights. But where a connection is possible, they do offer it.

Blerg wrote:
Like you said it yourself, Ryanair knows how to turn a profit meaning those 06.30 departures from VIE might not have been lucrative for them. Not because there is no market but rather because well established legacies have the upper hand. So why pursue this market when they can concentrate on leisure and ethnic traffic which is more price sensitive and less demanding? Perfect combo for them.


True, and this means they can operate these flights with aircraft based elsewhere. That adds an extra leg to the daily use of that aircraft. The aircraft can depart it's base at 06:30, fly to Vienna and be there in time for the 08:30 departure. Giving up their base doesn't have to mean giving up their presence in Vienna. Look at what they did in Eindhoven for example. This used to be a Ryanair base as well. It has been closed, but the number of Ryanair flights has hardly been reduced. Only they're operated from the other end.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Wed May 27, 2020 6:55 am

No, they do not have a hub operation, as they do not see themselves responsible if a delayed flight makes you miss the connection.
 
GLANKG
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Wed May 27, 2020 7:21 am

Blerg wrote:
GLANKG wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Well, Lauda's closure kind of answers your question. Seems like Ryanair knows that turning Vienna into a hub costs a lot given the circumstances so they are going to be focusing on serving it from elsewhere. Will be interesting to see how they rearrange their network and from where planes will come.

Ryanair doesn't do hubs, they operate bases, hub is not their model, it is costly as you said.


Well a hub is the effective centre of an activity, region, or network. It doesn't mean that if they have a hub somewhere that they operate transfers even though they experienced with that model in Rome.

Wrong, hub model in aviation meaning airlines organise routes as a series of "spokes" that connect outlying points to a central "hub", it is in contrast with point-to-point system.
Nice trying changing the concept but even FR themselves never said that, and I doubt they'd ever provide baggage transfer and other assistance at all.
 
asdf
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Wed May 27, 2020 10:05 am

GLANKG wrote:
P.S. Lauda KV is already by far the cheapest KV in Austria, not just in aviation.


wrong
you always compare a zero-hours-all-idle salary to a 40-hours-work salary

if you add the payment for the working hours you are on € 1875,- per month
this is NOT a cheap KV
 
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zkojq
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Wed May 27, 2020 1:50 pm

Vicenza wrote:
zkojq wrote:
aw70 wrote:

Exactly this. Good riddance, Ryanair is the sort of company that no one should be sad to see go.


:checkmark: Ryanair is a scourge on the European skies and on the European taxpayer. The more people realise this the better. I hope that the Lauda adventure cost them a lot of money.

Ironic for the Lauda if being made redundant nets them more in monthly unemployment benifits than they'd get under this new contract.


No-one is making you, or anyone else, choose to fly them (or any particular airline)


No, I don't fly Ryanair and I won't fly Ryanair. I much prefer to fly with proper airlines such as LH, AF, KL and, when I'm price sensitive, proper LCCs like EW, DY and U2 who treat their employees fairly, actually pay payroll taxes and don't mooch off of local government subsidies.

Vicenza wrote:
so why 'the song and dance' about it? 14 million choose to fly them in 2019, so are you saying they are all wrong then in your opinion? FR fly a vast network of routes across Europe unmatched by any airline, including passenger numbers, so where the pretend 'scourge' coming from?


Because companies who engage in crew outsourcing, treating "employees" as Independent Contractors inorder to avoid payroll taxes and having to give employees sick pay have the effect of putting companies who don't engage in such scummy practices at a disadvantage. People who patronise these companies are - willingly or not - condoning those practices. Personally, when I fly, I want the flight and cabin crew to have sick pay and to not be pressured into coming into work when unfit to do so. But hey, maybe I'm crazy.

VSMUT wrote:
But I would add one more party to blame - all the other airlines who rely too much on hiring ex-Ryanair staff. For a long time, there was no way they would consider hiring people with no experience. Ryanair was one of the only players who were willing to take in inexperienced people (because they ran pay-to-fly programs). They allowed Ryanair to become the de facto entry point to the entire European industry. If Austrian Airlines (hypothetical example) will only hire staff that are experienced, and you can only get that experience at Ryanair...


A very good point.

MartijnNL wrote:
I have never taken a Ryanair flight. I think that will remain the case. Even if they would offer free flights, I'd rather stay home.


:checkmark: Likewise. A few years ago I was planning a trip to Madrid to see a friend. Looking at all the options of getting there, Ryanair had fares for 5e one way and 10e coming home. I was happy to pay ~130e return and fly with a proper airlines (AF).

I'm also pleased that my local airport (for Europe) was, until relatively recently, 100% Ryanair free.

davidjohnson6 wrote:
A person should fly an airline once, before making criticism. Not 100 times, but just once
A person who lacks first hand experience in something which is readily available may not have the full picture


Yes, the moment I step aboard the Ryanair 737 my opinion will be changed immediately. I will be stunned by the cleanliness of the cabin, I will be amazed by the spaciousness of the legroom, I will be humbled to have the cabin crew try and sell me food/drink/dutyfree every twenty minutes, I will be comforted by the passenger next to me wearing four shirts on top of one and other to avoid checking in a bag and my mind will be widened with new perspectives after staring at the seat back advertising for two hours. Truly Cloud 9! :cloudnine:
First to fly the 787-9
 
mxaxai
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Wed May 27, 2020 2:14 pm

Blerg wrote:
Will be interesting to see how they rearrange their network and from where planes will come.

Well, for a start Malta Air employees are getting their wages cut involuntarily (10% - 20%) with the option of further reductions. Laudamotion is further threatening to close their German bases too, withhold wages for May, and cease operations, so I guess you can see where aircraft will (not) be coming from.
 
LMFNINJA
Posts: 114
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Wed May 27, 2020 10:36 pm

Number6 wrote:
Good for the unions. The wages being offered were below the poverty line, with cabin crew expected to survive on just €850 a month. The wage was considered so low, the Austrian AMS reported the wage to the government as illegal. As an example of how low the wage on offer was, a supermarket employee can expect a wage around €1580 per month based on a 40 hour week.

Laudamotion’s closing has been coming for months, as Ryanair have constantly clashed with the unions, the government and even AustroControl over how they want to run an airline. Now the question is, will Ryanair manage to maintain the slots at VIE for themselves?


Well said. Ryanair cannot expect human beings to survive on those wages. Let Michael O'Leary try living on E850 a month.
 
danipawa
Posts: 487
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:18 am

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Thu May 28, 2020 7:16 pm

Airbus A320 -232 2838 OE-LOZ LaudaMotion ferried 28may20 VIE-STR (+ 3147 OE-LOA, + 3206 OE-LOR) ex PR-MBD
Airbus A320 -232 3105 OE-IHL LaudaMotion ferried 26may20 VIE-STN (+ 3132 OE-LOU, + 3259 OE-IBJ, + 3272 OE-LOX)
Airbus A320 -232 2252 OE-LOW LaudaMotion ferried 27may20 VIE-STN (+ 2859 OE-LMB, + 2994 OE-LOI, + 3063 OE-LMC) ex 9V-SLG

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4
 
IrishLessor
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:44 am

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Fri May 29, 2020 8:22 am

There are two key items here in my opinion;
1
Vienna is a blood bath, all the airlines are making less than attractive yields. Ryanair are using this exercise to save face and exit VIE without looking like they've lost the fight. If Ryanair continue at VIE (in any guise), they will only operate selected routes which Wizz doesn't fly.
2
Wizz is the ULCC and Ryanair are not ready to enter a protracted battle against them, Wizz is strong, but Ryanair is very commercial and know what battles they can win and where the easier wins exist.
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1837
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Fri May 29, 2020 8:53 am

Bad decision by the union. They should be grateful to have a job - if they sold enough scratchcards they might even make it over the poverty line.
 
marcelh
Posts: 1090
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Fri May 29, 2020 9:27 am

peterinlisbon wrote:
Bad decision by the union. They should be grateful to have a job - if they sold enough scratchcards they might even make it over the poverty line.

You’re being sarcastic I hope?
 
rlwynn
Posts: 1507
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 3:35 am

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Fri May 29, 2020 10:01 am

I would not fly Ryanair if they gave me money. The one good thing I feel good about is giving information to people so that they do not fly them.
I can drive faster than you
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 952
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Fri May 29, 2020 10:15 am

Rlwynn - if you live in Europe, it might be worth trying Ryanair once. Despite the negative press, if you want a no-frills cheap ticket the passenger experience is nowhere near as bad as is made out

I say this having flown Ryanair over 250 times...
 
Westerwaelder
Posts: 292
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Fri May 29, 2020 10:55 am

peterinlisbon wrote:
Bad decision by the union. They should be grateful to have a job - if they sold enough scratchcards they might even make it over the poverty line.


No full time job should pay less than what's needed to stay above the poverty line. It's exploitation pure and simple.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4250
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Fri May 29, 2020 2:54 pm

rlwynn wrote:
I would not fly Ryanair if they gave me money. The one good thing I feel good about is giving information to people so that they do not fly them.


Then you are not doing a good job. lol
 
oldJoe
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:04 pm

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Fri May 29, 2020 3:58 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Rlwynn - if you live in Europe, it might be worth trying Ryanair once. Despite the negative press, if you want a no-frills cheap ticket the passenger experience is nowhere near as bad as is made out

I say this having flown Ryanair over 250 times...


I live in Europe since 1962 and believe me , to fly Ryanair was one of my worst experience in my life !
Once I was forced by my company to fly Ryanair. On the return flight I realised a female FA was ( very ) thick , but tried to hide it. We came in turbolences and she touched me. I thought this is a flat iron. I felled really pitty for her ! I was thick myself for two weeks after that and reported this to my company and the lady wich books our flights sorted out a much better solution for us to fly SAS even cheaper and faster , because they flew exactly to the airport we should be ! ( travel hours are fully paid ) Also I`m not interested to sit in a A/C with alcoholics at all.
I have travelled alot in my life , even at times when some of the posters here was not born and could always afford a legacy airline for my trips !
Everyone who likes to fly Ryanair ( I have no problem with it ) , who has a higher salary than their employees should feel ashame !!!
 
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seahawk
Posts: 9744
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Fri May 29, 2020 6:24 pm

Nobody forces people to work for Ryanair.
 
Westerwaelder
Posts: 292
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Fri May 29, 2020 6:34 pm

seahawk wrote:
Nobody forces people to work for Ryanair.


Companies have a social responsibility. And this kind of nonsense is what washes in the US. Where this leads we can all see: large parts of the population living in poverty, having no health insurance because they can't afford it, food stamps... I'm not saying all is well in Europe but at least people have some sort of safety net. If you don't believe in a society looking after its disadvantaged then there is nothing left to say...
 
Galore
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:43 pm

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Fri May 29, 2020 7:14 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Rlwynn - if you live in Europe, it might be worth trying Ryanair once. Despite the negative press, if you want a no-frills cheap ticket the passenger experience is nowhere near as bad as is made out

I say this having flown Ryanair over 250 times...


I tried them from Austria to the UK. I live in Dallas so my experience is more with US carriers. That Ryanair flight made Spirit feel luxurious. It felt even tighter inside, there was advertisement plastered on every available surface inside, they sell scratch lottery tickets and fly into remote airports. While I am a repeat Spirit customer (I think their BFS are a great deal), I will never fly Ryanair again. It’s not no-frills, it’s a penny wise, pound foolish trashy experience. Nope.
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 952
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Fri May 29, 2020 8:18 pm

Galore - credit to you for having made a well-reasoned decision based on personal experience
 
Blerg
Posts: 4250
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:00 pm

I couldn't quite understand from Google Translate but does it mean they found an agreement? Is Lauda staying?

https://www.aero.de/news-35692/Laudamot ... inute.html
 
dfpinto
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:48 pm

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:13 pm

I'm not sure if Ryanair/Lauda supporters in this forum realize that 850 EUR a month is already hard to live with in the neighboring and cheaper city of Bratislava. In Vienna, that base salary is simply abusive and bordering in slavery.
 
User avatar
SQ22
Moderator
Posts: 1922
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:29 am

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:39 pm

Blerg wrote:
I couldn't quite understand from Google Translate but does it mean they found an agreement? Is Lauda staying?

https://www.aero.de/news-35692/Laudamot ... inute.html


It reads like this, but my understanding reading this is as well that FR has to agree to this agreement.

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