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Achtstein
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:47 pm

Union and chamber of commerce (that's who negotiates CLA in Austria) came - surprisingly - to an understatement on Thursday. Pretty sure that was a bit of a surprise for FR...
However now it seems like , in case the staff vote in favor the new agreement over the weekend, that the base will stay. Although who can be sure of anything anymore after three "really, defiantly, very last" deadlines...
 
Blerg
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:50 pm

SQ22 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I couldn't quite understand from Google Translate but does it mean they found an agreement? Is Lauda staying?

https://www.aero.de/news-35692/Laudamot ... inute.html


It reads like this, but my understanding reading this is as well that FR has to agree to this agreement.


Interesting that it says that employees got into an argument with the unions who were taking a hard stand against FR. It would be indeed a very interesting development if true.
 
mickster
Posts: 220
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:52 pm

Correct, the Austrian Chamber of Commerce and the vida Union have agreed on the new terms, which now have to be accepted by Ryanair and then put into implementation.
 
Blerg
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:03 am

So bottom line is that Lauda is here to stay? So Lauda employees accepted all terms laid out by Ryanair?
 
marcelh
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:32 am

Blerg wrote:
So bottom line is that Lauda is here to stay? So Lauda employees accepted all terms laid out by Ryanair?

People are desperate to keep a job an hope for the better... But as long as a lot of Europeans want to fly as cheap as possible, the race to the bottom will continue.
 
Blerg
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:24 am

marcelh wrote:
Blerg wrote:
So bottom line is that Lauda is here to stay? So Lauda employees accepted all terms laid out by Ryanair?

People are desperate to keep a job an hope for the better... But as long as a lot of Europeans want to fly as cheap as possible, the race to the bottom will continue.


This is indeed a very interesting turn of events especially after everything we read on here from various people.

Maybe it's time for mods to change the name of the thread?
 
GLANKG
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:29 am

The article states the agreed new KV guarantees 1,440 EUR gross salary (brutto) for FA, that's 1,440 * 14 = 20,160 a year.
 
GLANKG
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:41 am

Indeed it seems happy ending after drama: https://www.nachrichten.at/wirtschaft/l ... 15,3264218
There's also an interview from union leader (in German): https://www.krone.at/2167225
Last edited by GLANKG on Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
GLANKG
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:44 am

Blerg wrote:
So Lauda employees accepted all terms laid out by Ryanair?

The employees still have to vote this weekend, but new offer € 1,440 is significantly better than previous € 1,000, you may say it's the opposite.
 
Blerg
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:03 am

GLANKG wrote:
Blerg wrote:
So Lauda employees accepted all terms laid out by Ryanair?

The employees still have to vote this weekend, but new offer € 1,440 is significantly better than previous € 1,000, you may say it's the opposite.


Well I am sure that these terms will be acceptable to FR which shows that they are still committed to Lauda and Vienna. At the end of the day it made no sense to hand over the market to Wizz Air just like that.
 
f4f3a
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:07 am

Is lauda still going to change to 737?s or are Airbuses going to stay
 
marcelh
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:49 am

Blerg wrote:
GLANKG wrote:
Blerg wrote:
So Lauda employees accepted all terms laid out by Ryanair?

The employees still have to vote this weekend, but new offer € 1,440 is significantly better than previous € 1,000, you may say it's the opposite.


Well I am sure that these terms will be acceptable to FR which shows that they are still committed to Lauda and Vienna. At the end of the day it made no sense to hand over the market to Wizz Air just like that.

They wouldn’t. Just replace it with Ryanair planes and personnel on Polish and/or Maltese contracts.
 
Blerg
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:15 pm

marcelh wrote:
Blerg wrote:
GLANKG wrote:
The employees still have to vote this weekend, but new offer € 1,440 is significantly better than previous € 1,000, you may say it's the opposite.


Well I am sure that these terms will be acceptable to FR which shows that they are still committed to Lauda and Vienna. At the end of the day it made no sense to hand over the market to Wizz Air just like that.

They wouldn’t. Just replace it with Ryanair planes and personnel on Polish and/or Maltese contracts.


Yes but I doubt they would be able to recreate 100% of the routes they currently operate from Vienna with planes from outside.
 
fcogafa
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:16 pm

Workers have accepted the agreement, VIE based aircraft reducing to 10 aircraft

https://www.lse.co.uk/news/ryanair-subs ... 4suas.html
 
Blerg
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:47 am

fcogafa wrote:
Workers have accepted the agreement, VIE based aircraft reducing to 10 aircraft

https://www.lse.co.uk/news/ryanair-subs ... 4suas.html


16 to 10 is quite a drop, let's see which destinations go in the end. With 10 aircraft I think they can realistically reach a profit.
 
Someone83
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:25 am

Blerg wrote:
fcogafa wrote:
Workers have accepted the agreement, VIE based aircraft reducing to 10 aircraft

https://www.lse.co.uk/news/ryanair-subs ... 4suas.html


16 to 10 is quite a drop, let's see which destinations go in the end. With 10 aircraft I think they can realistically reach a profit.


But how will the new Austrian minimum ticket price and environmental tax influence this? Could we anyway see a closure of Lauda?
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:47 am

Someone83 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
fcogafa wrote:
Workers have accepted the agreement, VIE based aircraft reducing to 10 aircraft

https://www.lse.co.uk/news/ryanair-subs ... 4suas.html


16 to 10 is quite a drop, let's see which destinations go in the end. With 10 aircraft I think they can realistically reach a profit.


But how will the new Austrian minimum ticket price and environmental tax influence this? Could we anyway see a closure of Lauda?


I have to wonder if moving the operation to Slovakia is a possibility as well. FR has a base at BTS, and the distance from VIE to BTS is only 45 miles, about 70 minutes. But is BTS capable of handling all those additional flights? (OE has over 50 year-round and 30 seasonal destinations from VIE.)

Also, does FR plan to replace the A320s with B738s?
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:33 pm

If we assume ten 180-seat aircraft flying 3 round trips per day with a 90% load factor on 360 days per year, we get 3.5 million extra pax

Bratislava airport in 2018 had 2.3 million pax
 
GLANKG
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Ryanair replaces most Lauda flights, fired pregnant woman and to challenge Maternity Protection Act in court

Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:21 pm

Ryanair said it will take over many of the routes its Austrian-based subsidiary Lauda operates from Vienna, Lauda will become a wet-lease provider for Ryanair, so Lauda crews will keep their uniforms, as will the Airbus aircrafts with the Lauda livery, but flights will be placed under FR code and on behalf of the Irish company. Flights to non-EU destinations like Kyiv and Beirut will still be operated under OE code.

While Ryanair is celebrating 64 “new” routes from Vienna in a press release, layoffs are being distributed at the headquarters of Lauda. 94 employees were fired on Thursday, among them there is a pregnant woman who had previously been responsible for crew training, it is highly unusual since she is being protected from dismissal by Austrian law. Accordingly, the low-cost airline is also filing lawsuit at the Korneuburg Regional Court for approval to dismiss 25 employees who are protected from dismissal by the Maternity Protection Act (MSchG, Mutterschutzgesetz). In a letter to court dated 29 May Lauda lawyer citing that operations at Vienna Airport has been closed and that no commercial flights will be offered from this airport in the future, therefore, the defendants can no longer be employed. Lauda also argues that Lauda has incurred a loss of € 300 million in the past two years and that the COVID-19 crisis has meant that flights have been suspended since March 17, 2020. It is also written that other airlines have received high levels of state aid and the Vida union has refused to approve the new collective agreement (the one FR originally wanted).

Link (in German): https://wien.orf.at/stories/3054976/

So it seems they are going back to the single-brand strategy in the future, Lauda will be a wet lease operator just like Malta Air flying on behalf of Ryanair. What a cash burning project, although MOL this week still maintains Lauda could break-even in the next couple of years, and Lauda is continuing to exist as a company, after the dismissals Lauda team will be reduced to just over 300 employees, its Airbus fleet will stay for five to six years before leasing contracts expire.

Although it's nothing new about Ryanair's social dumping practice, but challenging Maternity Protection Law in the 21th century EU is beyond the pale.
 
Blerg
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Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:14 pm

Seems like Lauda will fire all of its employees in STR. Apparently they refused new work conditions which seem to have been accepted by their colleagues in VIE and DUS. If Lauda ends up scaling down their operation in STR, that will be good news for EW.

https://www.austrianaviation.net/detail ... -verteilt/
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:08 pm

Blerg wrote:
If Lauda ends up scaling down their operation in STR, that will be good news for EW.


Don't believe that will happen. Just like in Vienna, the Stuttgart operations will just be replaced by Ryanair. Old Lauda staff will be laid off, new Ryanair staff will take their place. Of course against the working conditions the Lauda staff refused.
 
Blerg
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Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:53 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
If Lauda ends up scaling down their operation in STR, that will be good news for EW.


Don't believe that will happen. Just like in Vienna, the Stuttgart operations will just be replaced by Ryanair. Old Lauda staff will be laid off, new Ryanair staff will take their place. Of course against the working conditions the Lauda staff refused.


Though this might lead them to scale down on their STR operation like they did in VIE once the previous set up was dismantled.
 
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albertocsc
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Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:57 am

Lauda is moving to a Maltese AOC, under the name Lauda Europe

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... nach-malta
 
bennett123
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Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:02 am

So now they have two Maltese operations, Malta Air and Lauda Europe.
 
by738
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Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:19 am

these subsidiaries are getting ridiculous to avoid union and legalities, if its that easy to do why bother. Scrap them all and let FR do it’s thing. I’m surprised FR didn’t let them just ‘go under’ citing covid, then resurface later.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:53 am

by738 wrote:
these subsidiaries are getting ridiculous to avoid union and legalities, if its that easy to do why bother. Scrap them all and let FR do it’s thing. I’m surprised FR didn’t let them just ‘go under’ citing covid, then resurface later.

And tax avoidance in some cases. And I totally agree - these European LCCs are definitely making things ridiculous.

Michael
 
fcogafa
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Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:16 am

With the restrictive Austrian laws I wonder if they leave Easyjet Europe at a disadvantage and they might be thinking of moving their register too
 
Blerg
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Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:18 am

I see that Ryanair is introducing VIE-DTM/CGN. Are those route it took over from Lauda or are they new additions? Both are supposed to operate daily.

https://www.airliners.de/ryanair-deutsc ... uten/56697
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:49 pm

It shows for sure how regulated many EU countries are when it comes to business. No wonder the governments are so supportive of their national carriers: because there won't be any new carrier (other then from countries with better tax structures/open to business such as Ireland, the U.K, Hungary and Malta).
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
GLANKG
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Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:29 am

lesfalls wrote:
It shows for sure how regulated many EU countries are when it comes to business. No wonder the governments are so supportive of their national carriers: because there won't be any new carrier (other then from countries with better tax structures/open to business such as Ireland, the U.K, Hungary and Malta).


Agreed, although I wouldn't put UK in that basket yet, business rate is still a lot higher in Northern Ireland than in the Republic, and Britain charges APD, both of which contributed to the DUB boom, but it could happen post Brexit.
In the EU the English speaking Ireland, Malta and Cyprus are quite a challenge for level playing field within the single market, Irish government's victory in tech giants tax case certainly didn't help.
 
GLANKG
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Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:41 am

Blerg wrote:
Seems like Lauda will fire all of its employees in STR. Apparently they refused new work conditions which seem to have been accepted by their colleagues in VIE and DUS. If Lauda ends up scaling down their operation in STR, that will be good news for EW.

https://www.austrianaviation.net/detail ... -verteilt/


Not factual correct, in STR 88% accepted new deal (mainly pilots said no), which is similar to the situation in DUS, where FR just fired those who didn't sign and carry on. In VIE all agreed a new deal and then FR decides to close Lauda Austria, can't all blame labour side.
 
Blerg
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Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:44 am

GLANKG wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Seems like Lauda will fire all of its employees in STR. Apparently they refused new work conditions which seem to have been accepted by their colleagues in VIE and DUS. If Lauda ends up scaling down their operation in STR, that will be good news for EW.

https://www.austrianaviation.net/detail ... -verteilt/


Not factual correct, in STR 88% accepted new deal (mainly pilots said no), which is similar to the situation in DUS, where FR just fired those who didn't sign and carry on. In VIE all agreed a new deal and then FR decides to close Lauda Austria, can't all blame labour side.


God bless them! I guess most of those who were fired ended up applying for the Wizz AUH base. lol
 
f4f3a
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Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:01 am

This is the problem with the EU . Routes shouldn't be able to be moved to different aoc just to avoid legalities in countries where they are making the money. Transfering aoc should be more than just a paper exercise . Looks like it will just become like the shipping industry and using flags of convenience
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:43 am

Once Ryanair moves large chunks of operations to Malta, every other pan-EU airline, including Easyjet, Eurowings, Transavia, Vueling and others will be forced to do the same to remain competitive. If you thought Norwegian having a base in Ireland, was bad, it will get far worse

The average passenger flying within the EU doesn't care about domicile, in the same way that cruise ship passengers don't care if their ship is Panama / Bermuda / Liberia flagged
 
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LH748
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Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:38 am

Trying to pay employees a wage below the poverty line is just wrong. Ryanair isn't paying much anyway but this is just a servere attempt to exploit the Corona situation
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bennett123
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Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:49 am

If everyone pays poverty wages, then a lot of firms will have no customers.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:50 pm

albertocsc wrote:
Lauda is moving to a Maltese AOC, under the name Lauda Europe

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... nach-malta


https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... ltese-unit

Second source as well. I have to wonder if Ryanair Group could get rid of the leased A320s as well and replace them with B738s to maintain one common fleet. With SunExpress Germany set to close soon, I wonder if the Ryanair Group could strike a deal for those frames. (Among the 420 B738s in the Ryanair fleet, all but 14 are owned.)

Regarding easyJet, BTW, Malta was one of two finalists for the EU27 registration for the airline post-Brexit, and Austria won out.
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 906
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: Updated: Austria's Lauda to close, be replaced with new Maltese unit

Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:10 am

Hmmm, skirting the intentions of the unified European government it sounds.

Still an experiment in its infancy I guess.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
GLANKG
Posts: 107
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Re: Updated: Austria's Lauda to close, be replaced with new Maltese unit

Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:26 am

Lauda is to fold DUS operations as well, blaming Düsseldorf Airport for not reducing fees.

https://kurier.at/wirtschaft/lauda-euro ... /401027813
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4680
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Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:37 am

bennett123 wrote:
If everyone pays poverty wages, then a lot of firms will have no customers.


:checkmark:

And people will stop becoming FAs, ground engineers and pilots.


aemoreira1981 wrote:
Second source as well. I have to wonder if Ryanair Group could get rid of the leased A320s as well and replace them with B738s to maintain one common fleet. With SunExpress Germany set to close soon, I wonder if the Ryanair Group could strike a deal for those frames. (Among the 420 B738s in the Ryanair fleet, all but 14 are owned.)


AFAIK, they wanted the A320s as a bargaining chip because Boeing wasn't taking their request for lower prices on 737s seriously any more and Airbus pretty much ignored them.
 
Europecc
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Re: Updated: Austria's Lauda to close, be replaced with new Maltese unit

Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:29 pm

Lauda has flown 6 of the Airbus 320’s from Dusseldorf (the now closed base)to London Stansted. Currently all sitting idle at STN.

According to the Ryanair website there will be based Lauda 320s in Zadar (Croatia) from March 2021.

They also stated that they will be using to Lauda 320’s to open new bases around Europe. Any idea where they will be basing these aircraft? Stansted?

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