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Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:47 pm
by Achtstein
Union and chamber of commerce (that's who negotiates CLA in Austria) came - surprisingly - to an understatement on Thursday. Pretty sure that was a bit of a surprise for FR...
However now it seems like , in case the staff vote in favor the new agreement over the weekend, that the base will stay. Although who can be sure of anything anymore after three "really, defiantly, very last" deadlines...

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:50 pm
by Blerg
SQ22 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I couldn't quite understand from Google Translate but does it mean they found an agreement? Is Lauda staying?

https://www.aero.de/news-35692/Laudamot ... inute.html


It reads like this, but my understanding reading this is as well that FR has to agree to this agreement.


Interesting that it says that employees got into an argument with the unions who were taking a hard stand against FR. It would be indeed a very interesting development if true.

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:52 pm
by mickster
Correct, the Austrian Chamber of Commerce and the vida Union have agreed on the new terms, which now have to be accepted by Ryanair and then put into implementation.

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:03 am
by Blerg
So bottom line is that Lauda is here to stay? So Lauda employees accepted all terms laid out by Ryanair?

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:32 am
by marcelh
Blerg wrote:
So bottom line is that Lauda is here to stay? So Lauda employees accepted all terms laid out by Ryanair?

People are desperate to keep a job an hope for the better... But as long as a lot of Europeans want to fly as cheap as possible, the race to the bottom will continue.

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:24 am
by Blerg
marcelh wrote:
Blerg wrote:
So bottom line is that Lauda is here to stay? So Lauda employees accepted all terms laid out by Ryanair?

People are desperate to keep a job an hope for the better... But as long as a lot of Europeans want to fly as cheap as possible, the race to the bottom will continue.


This is indeed a very interesting turn of events especially after everything we read on here from various people.

Maybe it's time for mods to change the name of the thread?

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:29 am
by GLANKG
The article states the agreed new KV guarantees 1,440 EUR gross salary (brutto) for FA, that's 1,440 * 14 = 20,160 a year.

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:41 am
by GLANKG
Indeed it seems happy ending after drama: https://www.nachrichten.at/wirtschaft/l ... 15,3264218
There's also an interview from union leader (in German): https://www.krone.at/2167225

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:44 am
by GLANKG
Blerg wrote:
So Lauda employees accepted all terms laid out by Ryanair?

The employees still have to vote this weekend, but new offer € 1,440 is significantly better than previous € 1,000, you may say it's the opposite.

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:03 am
by Blerg
GLANKG wrote:
Blerg wrote:
So Lauda employees accepted all terms laid out by Ryanair?

The employees still have to vote this weekend, but new offer € 1,440 is significantly better than previous € 1,000, you may say it's the opposite.


Well I am sure that these terms will be acceptable to FR which shows that they are still committed to Lauda and Vienna. At the end of the day it made no sense to hand over the market to Wizz Air just like that.

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:07 am
by f4f3a
Is lauda still going to change to 737?s or are Airbuses going to stay

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:49 am
by marcelh
Blerg wrote:
GLANKG wrote:
Blerg wrote:
So Lauda employees accepted all terms laid out by Ryanair?

The employees still have to vote this weekend, but new offer € 1,440 is significantly better than previous € 1,000, you may say it's the opposite.


Well I am sure that these terms will be acceptable to FR which shows that they are still committed to Lauda and Vienna. At the end of the day it made no sense to hand over the market to Wizz Air just like that.

They wouldn’t. Just replace it with Ryanair planes and personnel on Polish and/or Maltese contracts.

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:15 pm
by Blerg
marcelh wrote:
Blerg wrote:
GLANKG wrote:
The employees still have to vote this weekend, but new offer € 1,440 is significantly better than previous € 1,000, you may say it's the opposite.


Well I am sure that these terms will be acceptable to FR which shows that they are still committed to Lauda and Vienna. At the end of the day it made no sense to hand over the market to Wizz Air just like that.

They wouldn’t. Just replace it with Ryanair planes and personnel on Polish and/or Maltese contracts.


Yes but I doubt they would be able to recreate 100% of the routes they currently operate from Vienna with planes from outside.

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:16 pm
by fcogafa
Workers have accepted the agreement, VIE based aircraft reducing to 10 aircraft

https://www.lse.co.uk/news/ryanair-subs ... 4suas.html

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:47 am
by Blerg
fcogafa wrote:
Workers have accepted the agreement, VIE based aircraft reducing to 10 aircraft

https://www.lse.co.uk/news/ryanair-subs ... 4suas.html


16 to 10 is quite a drop, let's see which destinations go in the end. With 10 aircraft I think they can realistically reach a profit.

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:25 am
by Someone83
Blerg wrote:
fcogafa wrote:
Workers have accepted the agreement, VIE based aircraft reducing to 10 aircraft

https://www.lse.co.uk/news/ryanair-subs ... 4suas.html


16 to 10 is quite a drop, let's see which destinations go in the end. With 10 aircraft I think they can realistically reach a profit.


But how will the new Austrian minimum ticket price and environmental tax influence this? Could we anyway see a closure of Lauda?

Re: Laudamotion closing its VIE base May 29th.

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:47 am
by aemoreira1981
Someone83 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
fcogafa wrote:
Workers have accepted the agreement, VIE based aircraft reducing to 10 aircraft

https://www.lse.co.uk/news/ryanair-subs ... 4suas.html


16 to 10 is quite a drop, let's see which destinations go in the end. With 10 aircraft I think they can realistically reach a profit.


But how will the new Austrian minimum ticket price and environmental tax influence this? Could we anyway see a closure of Lauda?


I have to wonder if moving the operation to Slovakia is a possibility as well. FR has a base at BTS, and the distance from VIE to BTS is only 45 miles, about 70 minutes. But is BTS capable of handling all those additional flights? (OE has over 50 year-round and 30 seasonal destinations from VIE.)

Also, does FR plan to replace the A320s with B738s?

Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:33 pm
by davidjohnson6
If we assume ten 180-seat aircraft flying 3 round trips per day with a 90% load factor on 360 days per year, we get 3.5 million extra pax

Bratislava airport in 2018 had 2.3 million pax

Ryanair replaces most Lauda flights, fired pregnant woman and to challenge Maternity Protection Act in court

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:21 pm
by GLANKG
Ryanair said it will take over many of the routes its Austrian-based subsidiary Lauda operates from Vienna, Lauda will become a wet-lease provider for Ryanair, so Lauda crews will keep their uniforms, as will the Airbus aircrafts with the Lauda livery, but flights will be placed under FR code and on behalf of the Irish company. Flights to non-EU destinations like Kyiv and Beirut will still be operated under OE code.

While Ryanair is celebrating 64 “new” routes from Vienna in a press release, layoffs are being distributed at the headquarters of Lauda. 94 employees were fired on Thursday, among them there is a pregnant woman who had previously been responsible for crew training, it is highly unusual since she is being protected from dismissal by Austrian law. Accordingly, the low-cost airline is also filing lawsuit at the Korneuburg Regional Court for approval to dismiss 25 employees who are protected from dismissal by the Maternity Protection Act (MSchG, Mutterschutzgesetz). In a letter to court dated 29 May Lauda lawyer citing that operations at Vienna Airport has been closed and that no commercial flights will be offered from this airport in the future, therefore, the defendants can no longer be employed. Lauda also argues that Lauda has incurred a loss of € 300 million in the past two years and that the COVID-19 crisis has meant that flights have been suspended since March 17, 2020. It is also written that other airlines have received high levels of state aid and the Vida union has refused to approve the new collective agreement (the one FR originally wanted).

Link (in German): https://wien.orf.at/stories/3054976/

So it seems they are going back to the single-brand strategy in the future, Lauda will be a wet lease operator just like Malta Air flying on behalf of Ryanair. What a cash burning project, although MOL this week still maintains Lauda could break-even in the next couple of years, and Lauda is continuing to exist as a company, after the dismissals Lauda team will be reduced to just over 300 employees, its Airbus fleet will stay for five to six years before leasing contracts expire.

Although it's nothing new about Ryanair's social dumping practice, but challenging Maternity Protection Law in the 21th century EU is beyond the pale.

Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:14 pm
by Blerg
Seems like Lauda will fire all of its employees in STR. Apparently they refused new work conditions which seem to have been accepted by their colleagues in VIE and DUS. If Lauda ends up scaling down their operation in STR, that will be good news for EW.

https://www.austrianaviation.net/detail ... -verteilt/

Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:08 pm
by PatrickZ80
Blerg wrote:
If Lauda ends up scaling down their operation in STR, that will be good news for EW.


Don't believe that will happen. Just like in Vienna, the Stuttgart operations will just be replaced by Ryanair. Old Lauda staff will be laid off, new Ryanair staff will take their place. Of course against the working conditions the Lauda staff refused.

Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:53 pm
by Blerg
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
If Lauda ends up scaling down their operation in STR, that will be good news for EW.


Don't believe that will happen. Just like in Vienna, the Stuttgart operations will just be replaced by Ryanair. Old Lauda staff will be laid off, new Ryanair staff will take their place. Of course against the working conditions the Lauda staff refused.


Though this might lead them to scale down on their STR operation like they did in VIE once the previous set up was dismantled.

Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:57 am
by albertocsc
Lauda is moving to a Maltese AOC, under the name Lauda Europe

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... nach-malta

Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:02 am
by bennett123
So now they have two Maltese operations, Malta Air and Lauda Europe.

Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:19 am
by by738
these subsidiaries are getting ridiculous to avoid union and legalities, if its that easy to do why bother. Scrap them all and let FR do it’s thing. I’m surprised FR didn’t let them just ‘go under’ citing covid, then resurface later.

Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:53 am
by eamondzhang
by738 wrote:
these subsidiaries are getting ridiculous to avoid union and legalities, if its that easy to do why bother. Scrap them all and let FR do it’s thing. I’m surprised FR didn’t let them just ‘go under’ citing covid, then resurface later.

And tax avoidance in some cases. And I totally agree - these European LCCs are definitely making things ridiculous.

Michael

Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:16 am
by fcogafa
With the restrictive Austrian laws I wonder if they leave Easyjet Europe at a disadvantage and they might be thinking of moving their register too

Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:18 am
by Blerg
I see that Ryanair is introducing VIE-DTM/CGN. Are those route it took over from Lauda or are they new additions? Both are supposed to operate daily.

https://www.airliners.de/ryanair-deutsc ... uten/56697

Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:49 pm
by lesfalls
It shows for sure how regulated many EU countries are when it comes to business. No wonder the governments are so supportive of their national carriers: because there won't be any new carrier (other then from countries with better tax structures/open to business such as Ireland, the U.K, Hungary and Malta).

Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:29 am
by GLANKG
lesfalls wrote:
It shows for sure how regulated many EU countries are when it comes to business. No wonder the governments are so supportive of their national carriers: because there won't be any new carrier (other then from countries with better tax structures/open to business such as Ireland, the U.K, Hungary and Malta).


Agreed, although I wouldn't put UK in that basket yet, business rate is still a lot higher in Northern Ireland than in the Republic, and Britain charges APD, both of which contributed to the DUB boom, but it could happen post Brexit.
In the EU the English speaking Ireland, Malta and Cyprus are quite a challenge for level playing field within the single market, Irish government's victory in tech giants tax case certainly didn't help.

Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:41 am
by GLANKG
Blerg wrote:
Seems like Lauda will fire all of its employees in STR. Apparently they refused new work conditions which seem to have been accepted by their colleagues in VIE and DUS. If Lauda ends up scaling down their operation in STR, that will be good news for EW.

https://www.austrianaviation.net/detail ... -verteilt/


Not factual correct, in STR 88% accepted new deal (mainly pilots said no), which is similar to the situation in DUS, where FR just fired those who didn't sign and carry on. In VIE all agreed a new deal and then FR decides to close Lauda Austria, can't all blame labour side.

Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:44 am
by Blerg
GLANKG wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Seems like Lauda will fire all of its employees in STR. Apparently they refused new work conditions which seem to have been accepted by their colleagues in VIE and DUS. If Lauda ends up scaling down their operation in STR, that will be good news for EW.

https://www.austrianaviation.net/detail ... -verteilt/


Not factual correct, in STR 88% accepted new deal (mainly pilots said no), which is similar to the situation in DUS, where FR just fired those who didn't sign and carry on. In VIE all agreed a new deal and then FR decides to close Lauda Austria, can't all blame labour side.


God bless them! I guess most of those who were fired ended up applying for the Wizz AUH base. lol

Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:01 am
by f4f3a
This is the problem with the EU . Routes shouldn't be able to be moved to different aoc just to avoid legalities in countries where they are making the money. Transfering aoc should be more than just a paper exercise . Looks like it will just become like the shipping industry and using flags of convenience

Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:43 am
by davidjohnson6
Once Ryanair moves large chunks of operations to Malta, every other pan-EU airline, including Easyjet, Eurowings, Transavia, Vueling and others will be forced to do the same to remain competitive. If you thought Norwegian having a base in Ireland, was bad, it will get far worse

The average passenger flying within the EU doesn't care about domicile, in the same way that cruise ship passengers don't care if their ship is Panama / Bermuda / Liberia flagged

Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:38 am
by LH748
Trying to pay employees a wage below the poverty line is just wrong. Ryanair isn't paying much anyway but this is just a servere attempt to exploit the Corona situation

Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:49 am
by bennett123
If everyone pays poverty wages, then a lot of firms will have no customers.

Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:50 pm
by aemoreira1981
albertocsc wrote:
Lauda is moving to a Maltese AOC, under the name Lauda Europe

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... nach-malta


https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... ltese-unit

Second source as well. I have to wonder if Ryanair Group could get rid of the leased A320s as well and replace them with B738s to maintain one common fleet. With SunExpress Germany set to close soon, I wonder if the Ryanair Group could strike a deal for those frames. (Among the 420 B738s in the Ryanair fleet, all but 14 are owned.)

Regarding easyJet, BTW, Malta was one of two finalists for the EU27 registration for the airline post-Brexit, and Austria won out.

Re: Updated: Austria's Lauda to close, be replaced with new Maltese unit

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:10 am
by KlimaBXsst
Hmmm, skirting the intentions of the unified European government it sounds.

Still an experiment in its infancy I guess.

Re: Updated: Austria's Lauda to close, be replaced with new Maltese unit

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:26 am
by GLANKG
Lauda is to fold DUS operations as well, blaming Düsseldorf Airport for not reducing fees.

https://kurier.at/wirtschaft/lauda-euro ... /401027813

Re: Updated: Laudamotion scaling down VIE base to 10 aircraft, from 16

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:37 am
by VSMUT
bennett123 wrote:
If everyone pays poverty wages, then a lot of firms will have no customers.


:checkmark:

And people will stop becoming FAs, ground engineers and pilots.


aemoreira1981 wrote:
Second source as well. I have to wonder if Ryanair Group could get rid of the leased A320s as well and replace them with B738s to maintain one common fleet. With SunExpress Germany set to close soon, I wonder if the Ryanair Group could strike a deal for those frames. (Among the 420 B738s in the Ryanair fleet, all but 14 are owned.)


AFAIK, they wanted the A320s as a bargaining chip because Boeing wasn't taking their request for lower prices on 737s seriously any more and Airbus pretty much ignored them.

Re: Updated: Austria's Lauda to close, be replaced with new Maltese unit

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:29 pm
by Europecc
Lauda has flown 6 of the Airbus 320’s from Dusseldorf (the now closed base)to London Stansted. Currently all sitting idle at STN.

According to the Ryanair website there will be based Lauda 320s in Zadar (Croatia) from March 2021.

They also stated that they will be using to Lauda 320’s to open new bases around Europe. Any idea where they will be basing these aircraft? Stansted?