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SpaceshipDC10
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 2:07 pm

garpd wrote:
Pay close attention to behind the engines, the off white fuselage lends a good look at what looks like white smoke trailing the No.1 engine.


i have also noticed that. Since flightcrew declared mayday this could be a part that explain the accident.
 
Newark727
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 2:08 pm

There is a bit of heat haze in those photos - may be making the underside of the engines look less smooth than they were.
 
mxaxai
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 2:14 pm

garpd wrote:
Pay close attention to behind the engines, the off white fuselage lends a good look at what looks like white smoke trailing the No.1 engine.

White smoke could be unburnt fuel or oil, either after engine flame-out or due to damage to oil/fuel systems.

The photo on AvHerald does not seem to match the incident. EDIT: AvHerald replaced the photo with the two photos from the linked twitter post.
Last edited by mxaxai on Fri May 22, 2020 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
BMcD
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 2:16 pm

Mayday wouldn't necessarily be the first thing. The first rule of aviation is aviate, aviate, aviate. Fly the aircraft first, radio if you can after.
DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, MD-11, MD-80/2/3, 717, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, 787, L1011, CRJ2/7/900, A320, A321, A330, Saab 340
 
mxaxai
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 2:18 pm

Could be that engine damage resulted in a fuel leak, leaving much less fuel than shown on the cockpit instruments.
 
Ammad
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 2:21 pm

IWMBH wrote:
787pk wrote:
So far 2 survivors are getting reported to be taken to hospital and 1 declared badly injured but will survive.


I don't think these survivors where passengers, if you look at the pictures I think we can presume no one survived.


Two survivors are for sure passengers.

Passenger List here: [List shows s.no till 85 however it says 91 Pax. May be infants?]

https://e.jang.com.pk/pdf-data/document.pdf

Passenger on seat 1C and 24-A survived.

So far 50 bodies removed.

Due to COviD, Aircraft was operated with two third pax load of capacity.
Last edited by Ammad on Fri May 22, 2020 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
FatCat
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 2:22 pm

the wings look clean, isn't it strange for a final approach
understood it is the second attempt so you clean the wings during GA procedure
but the rat is already deployed, so no power was available, so the pictures should be of the very last moments, and consequently the wings should have some flaps indeed
imho the white smoke some of you are seeing coming from the engine can be the start system trying to restart the engine(s)
little to no damage to the blades mean the engines were not running indeed
but correct me if I'm wrong I'm just guessing
my two cents are on fuel starvation
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usflyer msp
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 2:23 pm

Rest in Peace to the deceased. Didn't PIA decide to sacrifice a goat rather than upgrade their aircraft mx and training after the 2016 crash?
 
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ssteve
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 2:25 pm

What a nightmare in the back. Engine scrape, goaround, flameouts...
 
SGAviation
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 2:33 pm

Most media were initially reporting 107 people on board; assuming 99 passengers + 8 crew members.

PIA posted on ther Facebook as 99 people, including the 8 crew members. So that would mean 91 passengers.

But having had a look at the passenger manifest, there are only 85 names on the list, even though the total is reflected as 91?
 
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qf789
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 2:35 pm

Just a reminder to discuss the topic and keep the personal and off topic comments out of the discussion
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D L X
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 2:37 pm

ikolkyo wrote:

The engines look like they had contact with the ground. I could very well be wrong but that is what it looks like to me.

Image
Image


Link: https://twitter.com/planespotterspk/sta ... 30752?s=21



Whoa. Compare to a PIA A320 on a better day: those nacelles are white. I agree, that looks like they dragged on the ground.



https://www.airliners.net/photo/Pakista ... g1Jw%3D%3D
 
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Aesma
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 2:38 pm

Blankbarcode wrote:
https://twitter.com/PlaneSpottersPK/status/1263810587152330752?s=20

Photos circulating of allegedly the aircraft in question after 1st approach, black marks under the engines, RAT deployed.


PanAm788 wrote:
On AVHerald, they are speculating that on the first approach the gear was not fully locked and the engines made contact with the ground, damaging them. This led them to flameout on the go-around, not fuel starvation. There is even a picture that allegedly shows the plane going around with the RAT deployed and the engines with black skidmarks on the bottom. Would post it here but don't know how. Anyway here is the AVHerald link. http://avherald.com/h?article=4d7a6e9a&opt=0


That looks spot on.

Eerie to see the plane like this, appearing to be flying when it's in fact gliding to its crash site. I can't think of any accident like this, scraping the bottom on landing then making it back in the air (well there is the Emirates 777 I guess, but not very high) aside from tail strikes I mean. Either the gear was showing as not locked and the go around was initiated too late, or all appeared fine and they shouldn't have attempted a go around after slamming it on the pavement.

Thoughts for the families.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
jetfan
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 2:44 pm

mxaxai wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Also the amount of smoke, (and presumably flames) does not seem consistent with zero fuel.

There's a lot of burnable stuff in the houses and streets, and fuel starvation does not require zero fuel (there's always a small unusable fuel volume). All it takes is a car or two set on fire - tyres create lots of smoke. If they cut a powerline, that can serve as ignition source too.


Also, in the pictures and videos there is not so much fire damage, consistent with little fuel. Of course there is other combustible stuff like hydraulic oil, but this does not look like a massive fuel explosion and fire.
 
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leleko747
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 2:46 pm

Aesma wrote:
I can't think of any accident like this, scraping the bottom on landing then making it back in the air (well there is the Emirates 777 I guess, but not very high) aside from tail strikes I mean.


This scenerio is similar to Malév flight 262, a Tu-154 which ended up landing with gear up at Thessaloniki, Greece.
Crew performed a successful go around and landed again, this time with gear down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal%C3%A9v_Flight_262
I wonder when people will understand:
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Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
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mxaxai
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 2:46 pm

Aesma wrote:
I can't think of any accident like this, scraping the bottom then making it back in the air (well there is the Emirates 777 I guess, but not very high).

There was a twin prop a while back that forgot to lower the gear, scraped the belly and props over the runway, and made it back into the air. That one eventually landed safely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPbxIrprato
 
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qf789
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 2:48 pm

Airbus has released a statement regarding PK8303

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/stateme ... risis.html
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NASBWI
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 2:49 pm

leleko747 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I can't think of any accident like this, scraping the bottom on landing then making it back in the air (well there is the Emirates 777 I guess, but not very high) aside from tail strikes I mean.


This scenerio is similar to Malév flight 262, a Tu-154 which ended up landing with gear up at Thessaloniki, Greece.
Crew performed a successful go around and landed again, this time with gear down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal%C3%A9v_Flight_262


There was also a (relatively minor) incident a few years ago when an American Eagle E135 touched down in BOS with either its gear up, or gear not locked, and it scraped the runway briefly before initiating a missed approach. It was caught on camera and circulated on the news, but it landed safely some time later. If anyone else remembers it, feel free to expand on that.

Edit: I found a link to the incident (with pictures), but it’s undated so I’m not sure when exactly it happened.

http://www.iasa-intl.com/folders/belfas ... anding.htm
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ikolkyo
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 3:09 pm

NASBWI wrote:
leleko747 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I can't think of any accident like this, scraping the bottom on landing then making it back in the air (well there is the Emirates 777 I guess, but not very high) aside from tail strikes I mean.


This scenerio is similar to Malév flight 262, a Tu-154 which ended up landing with gear up at Thessaloniki, Greece.
Crew performed a successful go around and landed again, this time with gear down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal%C3%A9v_Flight_262


There was also a (relatively minor) incident a few years ago when an American Eagle E135 touched down in BOS with either its gear up, or gear not locked, and it scraped the runway briefly before initiating a missed approach. It was caught on camera and circulated on the news, but it landed safely some time later. If anyone else remembers it, feel free to expand on that.

Edit: I found a link to the incident (with pictures), but it’s undated so I’m not sure when exactly it happened.

http://www.iasa-intl.com/folders/belfas ... anding.htm


Gotta remember that these 2 incident aircraft don’t have wing mounted engines, much better chances of getting away with ground contact on tail mounted engined aircraft.
 
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Aesma
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 3:31 pm

mxaxai wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I can't think of any accident like this, scraping the bottom then making it back in the air (well there is the Emirates 777 I guess, but not very high).

There was a twin prop a while back that forgot to lower the gear, scraped the belly and props over the runway, and made it back into the air. That one eventually landed safely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPbxIrprato


Yes I remember that one, totally crazy, but not an airliner.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
maint123
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 3:33 pm

Pakistanis refer to PIA as Please inform allah . They normally have retired defence officers heading all their civil institutions, mostly guys who have zero experience in the field. A sure shot receipe for disaster and inefficiency.
 
lalib
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 3:52 pm

maint123 wrote:
Pakistanis refer to PIA as Please inform allah . They normally have retired defence officers heading all their civil institutions, mostly guys who have zero experience in the field. A sure shot receipe for disaster and inefficiency.


I believe the head of PIA (CEO) is an Air Marshall. I don't know why they have ex Air Force heading up commercial operations of the airline when they are capable people in the country with relevant experience.

Same with Shipping, an Admiral is heading a company that operates Oil Tankers and Bulk Carriers.
 
BravoOne
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 3:52 pm

FWIW, my experience working with former PIA pilots has been extremely positive. This subject has already gone of the rails over on PPrune, so if we can wait to see what has happened without all the negative comments I think we might be bettor for the experience.
 
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TWA302
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 3:56 pm

Link to twitter with a video clip from a security camera. Plane was losing height quickly. Prayers for the victims and their families. Sad day.

https://twitter.com/GFarooqi/status/1263858937138483200?s=20
Last edited by TWA302 on Fri May 22, 2020 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Draken21fx
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 3:58 pm

Out of curiosity if the gear was not down and the plane did impact the runway wouldnt:

a. We have pics of the runway itself (especially seeing that the passenger list already leaked)?
b. Have some more damage on the fuselage especially towards the rear of the plane (potentially tail strike as it tries to go around)?
c. At what point does the RAT deploy?
d. Also I do understand that engines are not designed to take that kind of impact but can an engine expert comment which part of the engine is most likely to be damaged with an impact like that?
e. What kind warnings does a 320 have in case you try to land gear up?
 
pinsent
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 3:59 pm

From the looks of this, the plane was on the runway “gear up” for a short while. Check out the engine nacelles.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYn1AsDX0AA ... name=large
 
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airportugal310
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 4:07 pm

BravoOne wrote:
FWIW, my experience working with former PIA pilots has been extremely positive. This subject has already gone of the rails over on PPrune, so if we can wait to see what has happened without all the negative comments I think we might be bettor for the experience.


Boy...did it ever!
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
SEA
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 4:12 pm

Draken21fx wrote:
Out of curiosity if the gear was not down and the plane did impact the runway wouldnt:

a. We have pics of the runway itself (especially seeing that the passenger list already leaked)?
b. Have some more damage on the fuselage especially towards the rear of the plane (potentially tail strike as it tries to go around)?
c. At what point does the RAT deploy?
d. Also I do understand that engines are not designed to take that kind of impact but can an engine expert comment which part of the engine is most likely to be damaged with an impact like that?
e. What kind warnings does a 320 have in case you try to land gear up?


At 750 ft there is an ECAM warning if gear is not down.
 
Lrockeagle
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 4:12 pm

NASBWI wrote:
leleko747 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I can't think of any accident like this, scraping the bottom on landing then making it back in the air (well there is the Emirates 777 I guess, but not very high) aside from tail strikes I mean.


This scenerio is similar to Malév flight 262, a Tu-154 which ended up landing with gear up at Thessaloniki, Greece.
Crew performed a successful go around and landed again, this time with gear down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal%C3%A9v_Flight_262


There was also a (relatively minor) incident a few years ago when an American Eagle E135 touched down in BOS with either its gear up, or gear not locked, and it scraped the runway briefly before initiating a missed approach. It was caught on camera and circulated on the news, but it landed safely some time later. If anyone else remembers it, feel free to expand on that.

Edit: I found a link to the incident (with pictures), but it’s undated so I’m not sure when exactly it happened.

http://www.iasa-intl.com/folders/belfas ... anding.htm

On the eagle flight, word we got was the pilots said the gear showed down and locked but nobody believed them. They put the plane up on the hard stands and cycled the gear and it showed down and locked when the gear had never moved. Makes me cringe to think how close those pilots were to losing their jobs and then be vindicated
Lrockeagle
14 years ago

I got $20 says AA takes their 787's with GE powerplants. Just a hunch. Any takers?
 
owaisusmani
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 4:14 pm

TWA302 wrote:
Link to twitter with a video clip from a security camera. Plane was losing height quickly. Prayers for the victims and their families. Sad day.

https://twitter.com/GFarooqi/status/1263858937138483200?s=20


Another video from a CCTV:

https://twitter.com/WPCION/status/1263802027756355584
 
747megatop
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Re: PIA A320 crash in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 4:24 pm

Boeingphan wrote:
With all due respect Zeke is a qualified pilot and so far it's been reported they called mayday and said both engines were out. I'm not a pilot but that would be a fairly good guess at this point.


brodeurprice wrote:
zeke wrote:

Suspect they went around for the gear problem and were unable to retract them, increased fuel burn resulting in both engines flaming out on the next approach.


I have much respect for you and your invaluable contributions to this forum over the years, wouldn’t you say it’s a little early for speculation?

You would also expect there to be enough fuel on board for more than two go arounds, no ? The ensuing fire after impact would also suggest the presence of fuel, no ? Or would you expect there to be a greater intensity than what seems to be the case ?

A pilot and an accident investigator are completely 2 different roles. For now, anything is speculation. A highly respected and "qualified' aircraft mechanic can also start speculating if he wishes. Let accident investigators (boots on the ground) gather evidence, analyze it and then come out with the preliminary report. Till then everybody is a highly respected speculator.
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 4:26 pm

TWA302 wrote:
Link to twitter with a video clip from a security camera. Plane was losing height quickly. Prayers for the victims and their families. Sad day.

https://twitter.com/GFarooqi/status/1263858937138483200?s=20


I see deployed landing gear.
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
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TWA302
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 4:31 pm

BlueberryWheats wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
Link to twitter with a video clip from a security camera. Plane was losing height quickly. Prayers for the victims and their families. Sad day.

https://twitter.com/GFarooqi/status/1263858937138483200?s=20


I see deployed landing gear.



Good eye. If you pause and zoom in at :04 you can clearly see all three down.
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 4:33 pm

Draken21fx wrote:
Out of curiosity if the gear was not down and the plane did impact the runway wouldnt:

a. We have pics of the runway itself (especially seeing that the passenger list already leaked)?
b. Have some more damage on the fuselage especially towards the rear of the plane (potentially tail strike as it tries to go around)?
c. At what point does the RAT deploy?
d. Also I do understand that engines are not designed to take that kind of impact but can an engine expert comment which part of the engine is most likely to be damaged with an impact like that?
e. What kind warnings does a 320 have in case you try to land gear up?


a. I have not seen any pics of the runway itself, but I assume it's only going to be a matter of time.
b. I don't know why there isn't any damage, I agree with your claim that there should be, possibly a very shallow nose up go around???
c. Quick google search says it deploys if all aircraft electrical power is lost at a speed of greater than 100kts for an A320
d. Not only engine damage, but if bad luck is also a factor, FOD?? But the engine definitely got a rattle if it hit the ground at landing speed, maybe enough of a jolt to damage the compressor (it looks like the marks are in/around that area)
e. This has been answered a few posts above mine

My layman-is guess is that somehow it landed without any gear, resulting in both engines striking the ground. At this point, they decided to go around, but with a shallow climb. Due to damage to the engines when it hit the ground and/or ingestion of FOD they failed. The RAT deployed while they were climbing out on their remaining momentum, then eventually it stalled and there was nothing they could do.

EDIT: I just saw the video with gear down. I am stumped for now
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LAXdenizen
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 4:39 pm

Could the pilots have forgotton to extend the gear on the initial approach? Then once the engines made contact, their surprise and reaction was TOGA, but both engines had ingested FOD. So while they had some residual thrust to get airborne again, the damage proved to be too much.

I can't fathom why the pilots would have aborted a landing AFTER making contact with the tarmac unless they were so far down the runway that collision was imminent.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 4:41 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
Draken21fx wrote:
Out of curiosity if the gear was not down and the plane did impact the runway wouldnt:

a. We have pics of the runway itself (especially seeing that the passenger list already leaked)?
b. Have some more damage on the fuselage especially towards the rear of the plane (potentially tail strike as it tries to go around)?
c. At what point does the RAT deploy?
d. Also I do understand that engines are not designed to take that kind of impact but can an engine expert comment which part of the engine is most likely to be damaged with an impact like that?
e. What kind warnings does a 320 have in case you try to land gear up?


a. I have not seen any pics of the runway itself, but I assume it's only going to be a matter of time.
b. I don't know why there isn't any damage, I agree with your claim that there should be, possibly a very shallow nose up go around???
c. Quick google search says it deploys if all aircraft electrical power is lost at a speed of greater than 100kts for an A320
d. Not only engine damage, but if bad luck is also a factor, FOD?? But the engine definitely got a rattle if it hit the ground at landing speed, maybe enough of a jolt to damage the compressor (it looks like the marks are in/around that area)
e. This has been answered a few posts above mine

My layman-is guess is that somehow it landed without any gear, resulting in both engines striking the ground. At this point, they decided to go around, but with a shallow climb. Due to damage to the engines when it hit the ground and/or ingestion of FOD they failed. The RAT deployed while they were climbing out on their remaining momentum, then eventually it stalled and there was nothing they could do.

EDIT: I just saw the video with gear down. I am stumped for now


Remember guys, gravity gear extension is a thing.
 
migs
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 4:42 pm

BlueberryWheats wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
Link to twitter with a video clip from a security camera. Plane was losing height quickly. Prayers for the victims and their families. Sad day.

https://twitter.com/GFarooqi/status/1263858937138483200?s=20


I see deployed landing gear.


Yes, they remembered the second time around it seems....
 
Viper911
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 4:45 pm

BlueberryWheats wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
Link to twitter with a video clip from a security camera. Plane was losing height quickly. Prayers for the victims and their families. Sad day.

https://twitter.com/GFarooqi/status/1263858937138483200?s=20


I see deployed landing gear.


Seeing the three wheels doesn’t necessary indicate that the gear was down and locked. Could’ve been partially down.

Viper911
 
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william
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 4:46 pm

D L X wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:

The engines look like they had contact with the ground. I could very well be wrong but that is what it looks like to me.

Image
Image


Link: https://twitter.com/planespotterspk/sta ... 30752?s=21



Whoa. Compare to a PIA A320 on a better day: those nacelles are white. I agree, that looks like they dragged on the ground.



https://www.airliners.net/photo/Pakista ... g1Jw%3D%3D


Have this picture been verified as legit? Would not there be marks near the tail of the aircraft too? Would not the tower mention it?
 
nmcalba
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 4:49 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
NASBWI wrote:
leleko747 wrote:

This scenerio is similar to Malév flight 262, a Tu-154 which ended up landing with gear up at Thessaloniki, Greece.
Crew performed a successful go around and landed again, this time with gear down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal%C3%A9v_Flight_262


There was also a (relatively minor) incident a few years ago when an American Eagle E135 touched down in BOS with either its gear up, or gear not locked, and it scraped the runway briefly before initiating a missed approach. It was caught on camera and circulated on the news, but it landed safely some time later. If anyone else remembers it, feel free to expand on that.

Edit: I found a link to the incident (with pictures), but it’s undated so I’m not sure when exactly it happened.

http://www.iasa-intl.com/folders/belfas ... anding.htm


Gotta remember that these 2 incident aircraft don’t have wing mounted engines, much better chances of getting away with ground contact on tail mounted engined aircraft.


The relevant comparison might be with the SmartLynx A320 at Tallinn in 2018 - now this was a training flight doing touch and goes - and there various things going on which resulting in a pilot trying to reject a "go" after TOGA had been set and the gear had been selected "up" - this resulted in the aircraft settling back onto the runway with the gear in transit scraping the underside of both engines. The aircraft managed to climb away but one engine was on fire and subsequently failed, the other other engine was damaged and rolled back resulting in the loss of all main power buses and RAT deployment - fortunately by that time the aircraft had been turned around and was on final approach, and landed with a bit of an undershoot and though there was a subsequent runway excursion - everyone walked away from it.
 
Aither
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 4:50 pm

LAXdenizen wrote:
Could the pilots have forgotton to extend the gear on the initial approach? .


Hard to believe. It's an A320, there is a master warning alarm for this situation.
Never trust the obvious
 
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Aesma
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 4:58 pm

Draken21fx wrote:
d. Also I do understand that engines are not designed to take that kind of impact but can an engine expert comment which part of the engine is most likely to be damaged with an impact like that?


I'm not expert so just speculating : fuel lines and control cables should be on the top of the engine. With those two an engine should continue to run (or try to run) unless commanded to stop. We saw in some instances (Qantas A380) that even without control lines engines continue to run.

Now, I imagine some oil lines could be at the bottom of the engine. If they're damaged, the engine could lose all oil. It can't run without oil for long, stuff overheats, metal expands, parts don't fit anymore, and the engine seizes.

nmcalba : good find/memory !
Last edited by Aesma on Fri May 22, 2020 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
danman132x
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 4:59 pm

TWA302 wrote:
Link to twitter with a video clip from a security camera. Plane was losing height quickly. Prayers for the victims and their families. Sad day.

https://twitter.com/GFarooqi/status/1263858937138483200?s=20


This video is so chilling. All crash videos are.. The thoughts going through everyone's mind knowing both engines failed and you are fixing to crash into a residential area with basically no space to slow down safely :(
 
Blankbarcode
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 5:03 pm

Agreed that the gear seems to be down, at least partially. If they did a gravity - assisted lowering, does that mean we should also be looking for open gear doors? Since the RAT deployment photo shows gear up, I'd assume that was the only way to do it.

Maybe they were better off belly landing it again, since I believe open gear doors alone are also fairly detrimental to the aerodynamics. Hindsight is 20/20 though, it's heartwrenching how close they were to uninhabited / undeveloped ground.
 
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Aesma
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 5:07 pm

On engine number 1 (left), on the picture with gear up and RAT down, you can see the lip of the nacelle at the front, bottom, all mangled, so there is no doubt it hit the ground. I agree it's strange there is no mark on the fuselage, either the go around was initiated some time before contact with the ground, and the aircraft almost made it, contacting the ground in a level attitude (explaining why the lip of the engine would be damaged), or the fuselage did contact lightly without leaving a visible mark from afar.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
hiflyeras
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 5:08 pm

TWA302 wrote:
Link to twitter with a video clip from a security camera. Plane was losing height quickly. Prayers for the victims and their families. Sad day.

https://twitter.com/GFarooqi/status/1263858937138483200?s=20


Horrible to watch...RIP to all the deceased.
 
Adipocere
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 5:13 pm

Does someone have a Google Street View of the exact location? I’m baffled by news reports of the plane going down into multi storey residential towers - why would they be so close to the runway.
 
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AIRMET
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 5:24 pm

Aesma wrote:
On engine number 1 (left), on the picture with gear up and RAT down, you can see the lip of the nacelle at the front, bottom, all mangled, so there is no doubt it hit the ground. I agree it's strange there is no mark on the fuselage, either the go around was initiated some time before contact with the ground, and the aircraft almost made it, contacting the ground in a level attitude (explaining why the lip of the engine would be damaged), or the fuselage did contact lightly without leaving a visible mark from afar.

I cannot manage to detect any damage of the lips of the engine nacelles on the two photos, but the bottoms are clearly damaged. What one can see on the second photo close to the nacelle’s lip of engine no 1 seems to be an aerial/antenna on the underside of the plane’s fuselage that is actually situated visually behind the nacelle.
 
Murdoughnut
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:27 pm

Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 5:25 pm

As mentioned on another site, the aircraft reverts to direct law with the gear down in that state - crew may not have been ready for that.
 
mxaxai
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Re: PIA A320 (flight PK8303) crashes in Karachi

Fri May 22, 2020 5:29 pm

Adipocere wrote:
Does someone have a Google Street View of the exact location? I’m baffled by news reports of the plane going down into multi storey residential towers - why would they be so close to the runway.

"multi-storey" means 3-6 storeys here. Maybe 20-30 m high. These are not skyscrapers.
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