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Midwestindy
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Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Fri May 22, 2020 8:47 pm

During an employee town hall earlier this month, a Southwest Airlines employee asked a group of executives, "are we willing to aggressively pursue our competitors while they are in a weakened position?"

"In keeping with Southwest fashion, my answer would be yes," Bob Waltz, Southwest vice president of Flight Operations, said in response
https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... id-19.html

WN is only cutting its schedule by 50% in June, while UA & DL plan 80-90% cuts in the same month, and I think the way they explain it in the article is interesting.

"What we're also trying to do there is also have that amount of supply just slightly ahead — still a little bit of that Southwest Effect — try to stimulate a little bit of that ridership to come back, but also be ready in some of those markets that some of our other network carriers who are in much more dire financial straits, really aren't going to be in a position to come back and defend," Waltz said. "We want to be able to take advantage of that if we can."

With WN only planning to be down 30% later this year, there is a lot of room for them to be more aggressive.
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flybry
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Fri May 22, 2020 9:00 pm

Does Southwest have a death wish?
 
Aither
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Fri May 22, 2020 9:07 pm

Nobody should be surprised.
This is what many LCCs have done during previous crises.
Carriers like Emirates used to say in their early years they are carrying the demand other airlines do not want to carry.
We are all monitoring what others are doing capacity wise. Today there are only losers but in a few years ...
Never trust the obvious
 
DDR
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Fri May 22, 2020 9:10 pm

WN is not a LCC
 
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IrishAyes
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Fri May 22, 2020 9:20 pm

If this came from GK or other senior leaders at WN, I would be a bit more shocked to see this. VP of Flight Ops, on the other hand, don't resonate to me with the same levels of cred. This smells of #FakeNews, and seeing that it came from the DMN, which has truly lost of ton of respectable writing over the decades (quite sad), I'm not surprised.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Fri May 22, 2020 9:37 pm

flybry wrote:
Does Southwest have a death wish?


The idea is that since WN has a short stage length on its flights (very few more than 3 hours), it can squeeze competitors on short-haul. WN also has the most unencumbered assets of the US4. The idea could to take advantage of AA out west and in the Plains, especially out of PHX and DAL.
 
tphuang
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Fri May 22, 2020 9:45 pm

Isn't this kind of obvious? WN got a huge war chest and very little debt. They can sustain a money losing competition for a while to capture market share and build new fortress hubs. Many easy moves for them to make:
- Acquire smaller airlines to either eliminate competitor (NK), add slots (B6) or get gates at relevant airports (AS/F9/B6)
- build back up and then expand in DEN while UA is slowly adding back capacity. That's gotta be there number 1 priority in their domestic work.
- Add gates at LAX to take advantage of AA/UA cuts there
- Acquire/lease more slots at LGA/DCA from financially weak carriers of AA/UA
- If AA cuts back significantly at PHX, take advantage of that to become largest carrier at PHX
- Expand in SFO if UA cuts back there

I would be very worried about WN if I am one of their competitors. They will be close to their pre-COVID capacity by next summer imo.

And it's not just WN that can take advantage of legacy carriers cutting back.
Things are wide open for B6 in NYC. JFK will have more slots, EWR will have more gates open and LGA will most likely have some slots available. BOS will be wide open.
AS will be able to expand at SFO if they want.
NK is going to look to grow at LGA and EWR. It will grow at South Florida where everyone else is cutting back.
All the ULCCs will capture more of the leisure market.

DL management has told their employees that yield will be trash until 2022. High yielding international and corporate stuff will be slow to return. The stuff that will come back first are the leisure stuff. All of which favors non-legacy carriers.
 
joeblow10
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Fri May 22, 2020 9:51 pm

He’s not wrong - there are really two carriers who are being much more aggressive in terms of bringing back (or rather... not eliminating) capacity: WN and AA. I can’t even buy tickets on many DL flights in June because they’ve hit their LF capacity, and UA has extremely limited options. Take MCO-SEA for example on a Thursday in June, 2-3 options on DL, one (!) on UA, 5-8 on AA and WN.

WN has the war chest to capitalize. AA is taking a huge risk-reward approach. If it pays off, both will come out much stronger.
 
nws2002
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Fri May 22, 2020 9:53 pm

DDR wrote:
WN is not a LCC


Their CASM is lower than AA/DL/UA/B6/HA, at least as of 2018 which are the latest numbers I could find quickly. While they are higher than the ULCC (NK/F9/G4) they are nowhere near the big 3.
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Fri May 22, 2020 9:54 pm

There is always profit to be made in adversity.
 
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william
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Fri May 22, 2020 9:54 pm

SWA has done this in past, why do we think it would be different now. SWA has gotten good at being opportunistic. Creation of MDW, BWI and DEN hubs comes to mind.
 
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jaybird
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Fri May 22, 2020 9:55 pm

"When your competitor is drowning - you shove a hose down their throat!"
That's the business world - you take advantage of your competitors disadvantages!
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Fri May 22, 2020 10:06 pm

WN should become relevant Northeast of Philadelphia before fighting others everywhere else.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Fri May 22, 2020 10:49 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
Take MCO-SEA for example on a Thursday in June, 2-3 options on DL, one (!) on UA, 5-8 on AA and WN.


AS is still flying daily n/s MCO-SEA. June schedule has not been updated but it'll be Flt#9 departing MCO at 1030am daily.
 
CaptainObvious1
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Fri May 22, 2020 11:07 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
WN should become relevant Northeast of Philadelphia before fighting others everywhere else.


Why, then the following should also happen...

UA should become relevant south of Washington DC
B6 should become relevant west of the Appalachian Mountains
AS should become relevant east of the Sierra Nevada
AA should become relevant on the west coast
DL should become relevant in the southwest
SY should become relevant outside of Minneapolis
G4 should become relevant in large cities
 
joeblow10
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Fri May 22, 2020 11:23 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
Take MCO-SEA for example on a Thursday in June, 2-3 options on DL, one (!) on UA, 5-8 on AA and WN.


AS is still flying daily n/s MCO-SEA. June schedule has not been updated but it'll be Flt#9 departing MCO at 1030am daily.


I know - I guess I just meant the big 4 so to speak. AS seems to be doing fairly well in capacity all things considered
 
kiowa
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Fri May 22, 2020 11:35 pm

flybry wrote:
Does Southwest have a death wish?


Agree, "lets see who can bleed the longest"
 
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smithbs
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Fri May 22, 2020 11:56 pm

This should be of no surprise to anyone. For any company out there, the last several recessions have shown that if you can keep the books solvent and your head up, you can do well. Being complacent about a recovery may see the recovery pass you by.

WN does seem uniquely positioned to lead the recovery. Domestic focus, flexible assets, workable finances, and catering to passengers of limited scope seems to line up well with the market. WN's lack of international partners might not be a liability for some time.

I would be curious if AS has similar ambitions, maybe against DL in SEA and UA in CA. There are opportunities to be considered, especially since AS might be better structured for the recovery.

I do worry about HA. Is there concern that their Hawaii market will be as slow as international travel to resume? Since COVID appears more potent amongst Pacific Islanders, I'm wondering if HA will lag in the recovery in their markets southwest of Hawaii.
 
MO11
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 12:28 am

nws2002 wrote:
DDR wrote:
WN is not a LCC


Their CASM is lower than AA/DL/UA/B6/HA, at least as of 2018 which are the latest numbers I could find quickly. While they are higher than the ULCC (NK/F9/G4) they are nowhere near the big 3.


Southwest is nearly a penny higher than JetBlue (more if you don't count fuel), and way higher that Alaska, which also isn't an LCC.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 12:34 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
WN should become relevant Northeast of Philadelphia before fighting others everywhere else.


And B6 should be a little more relevant outside of New York, Boston and (to a lesser extent) Florida. Or AS should be more relevant past the Rockies.

See how iffy your logic is?
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
questions
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 12:38 am

IrishAyes wrote:
If this came from GK or other senior leaders at WN, I would be a bit more shocked to see this. VP of Flight Ops, on the other hand, don't resonate to me with the same levels of cred. This smells of #FakeNews, and seeing that it came from the DMN, which has truly lost of ton of respectable writing over the decades (quite sad), I'm not surprised.


For the most part, walking into the HQ of WN is like walking into the Shady Rest Hotel in Petticoat Junction.

There are some pockets of sophisticated, smart thinkers but it’s not widely prevalent. There are a ton of folks holding onto the legacy culture and folklore of the past, as if it’s the inspiration for the future. While certain aspects of the company's culture should carry forward, how that’s defined is widely misunderstood. The airline is quite different today. I wouldn’t bet on a lot of VP’s being in a position to correctly articulate the company’s strategy, especially during a crisis — even in terms that are appropriate to share with the media.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 12:41 am

The competition is not AA or AS, it is the Federal Reserve Printing Press.
If you think Trump will allow a major airline to go under and have 50,000+ unemployed on the streets in an election year.... think not.
 
flyguychi
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 12:48 am

MO11 wrote:
nws2002 wrote:
DDR wrote:
WN is not a LCC


Their CASM is lower than AA/DL/UA/B6/HA, at least as of 2018 which are the latest numbers I could find quickly. While they are higher than the ULCC (NK/F9/G4) they are nowhere near the big 3.


Southwest is nearly a penny higher than JetBlue (more if you don't count fuel), and way higher that Alaska, which also isn't an LCC.


Whiles Southwest might not be an ULCC, Even Alaska acknowledges Southwest has a lower CASM than them....look at their third quarter 2019 investor presentation.
Stage-Length Adjusted Non-Fuel CASM
Southwest: 8.12
Alaska: 8.93
JetBlue: 9.25
United: 10.86
Delta: 11.19
American: 11.32

59EA1E54-782B-4188-BF71-E58A924B6B1B.png
 
williaminsd
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 12:55 am

And why wouldn't they? The same capitalism and competition that affords us cheap fares and great frequencies affords the ability for the well-positioned to crush weaker counterparts. It also keeps these competitors sharp and responsive to the flying public to avoid extinction. These executives run Southwest Airlines, not the "Weak Airline Charity Foundation." They are doing exactly what I would expect. It's up to the other airlines to execute the appropriate response.
 
kiowa
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 1:10 am

williaminsd wrote:
And why wouldn't they? The same capitalism and competition that affords us cheap fares and great frequencies affords the ability for the well-positioned to crush weaker counterparts. It also keeps these competitors sharp and responsive to the flying public to avoid extinction. These executives run Southwest Airlines, not the "Weak Airline Charity Foundation." They are doing exactly what I would expect. It's up to the other airlines to execute the appropriate response.


Didn't Southwest suck up the same taxpayer dollars as the other airlines with the latest government bailout? That is not capitalism or competition. Those words don't even belong in the US airline lexicon for many years to come or until the government gets paid back.
 
williaminsd
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 1:17 am

kiowa wrote:
williaminsd wrote:
And why wouldn't they? The same capitalism and competition that affords us cheap fares and great frequencies affords the ability for the well-positioned to crush weaker counterparts. It also keeps these competitors sharp and responsive to the flying public to avoid extinction. These executives run Southwest Airlines, not the "Weak Airline Charity Foundation." They are doing exactly what I would expect. It's up to the other airlines to execute the appropriate response.


Didn't Southwest suck up the same taxpayer dollars as the other airlines with the latest government bailout? That is not capitalism or competition. Those words don't even belong in the US airline lexicon for many years to come or until the government gets paid back.


They weren't all loans (looks like about 30% needs to be repaid over five years), so the government is not going to get "paid back" much other than keeping citizens gainfully employed and paying taxes into the treasury. Accepting federal funds, unless stipulated, in no way obligates Southwest to not aggressively target weakness in its competitors.
Last edited by williaminsd on Sat May 23, 2020 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
WN732
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 1:25 am

flybry wrote:
Does Southwest have a death wish?


They know what they're doing.
 
AA747123
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 1:26 am

Southwest knows what they are doing, they have never lost money in their history. I am sure they will post a profit on the second quarter.
 
United1
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 1:35 am

AA747123 wrote:
Southwest knows what they are doing, they have never lost money in their history. I am sure they will post a profit on the second quarter.


None of the analysts believe that....

Q2 -3.05 a share
Q3 -1.41 a share
2020 -4.75 a share (roughly a 2.8 billion dollar loss)

Those are averages I posted but even the most optimist analyst predicts quarterly and annual losses for WN this year. It is worth noting that in 2021 WN, UA and DL are projected to be profitable. AA however...not so much.

I'm not surprised that WN executive said they would be taking advantage of the situation. All of the airlines are trying to make lemons into lemonade.
Last edited by United1 on Sat May 23, 2020 1:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
panamair
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 1:40 am

AA747123 wrote:
Southwest knows what they are doing, they have never lost money in their history. I am sure they will post a profit on the second quarter.


What are you talking about? They just posted losses for Q1 2020:

http://investors.southwest.com/news-and ... -110107839
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 1:51 am

This sounds more like a rally the troops message than anything with substance
 
joeblow10
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 1:52 am

panamair wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
Southwest knows what they are doing, they have never lost money in their history. I am sure they will post a profit on the second quarter.


What are you talking about? They just posted losses for Q1 2020:

http://investors.southwest.com/news-and ... -110107839


I believe they’ve never posted an annual loss in over 40 years, somebody correct me if I’m wrong. I don’t see how that doesn’t change in 2020, but if it truly doesn’t, that will certainly be extremely impressive.
 
flybry
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 2:08 am

Southwest may have a strategy adding tons of flights back quickly. But without passengers on those flights, it’s a strategy for failure.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 2:13 am

Bentonville is now the 5th fastest growing city in America. Northwest Arkansas is now projected to top 1million in time for 2045. Throwing a 737 on DAL, DEN, PHX or LAS, STL or MDW and ATL or BNA would be taking advantage of opportunity. Since they think some flights will only be 45% capacity, stick XNA in between DEN and ATL/BNA, DAL and STL/MDW, add MCO on Sats only.
 
ShinyAndChrome
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 3:19 am

Playing devil's advocate, how applicable is the "Southwest Effect" over the next few months? I get that passenger numbers are on their way up, but how much latent traffic is there to actually be stimulated?
 
737max8
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 3:31 am

flybry wrote:
Southwest may have a strategy adding tons of flights back quickly. But without passengers on those flights, it’s a strategy for failure.


Except passengers are coming back. Even flying standby is getting tough again.

Everyone likes to hate on WN in these threads, yet they post better results than their competitors over and over again. Along with Delta.

Everyone else wishes they were at the same level of performance.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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Nicknuzzii
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 3:34 am

CaptainObvious1 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
WN should become relevant Northeast of Philadelphia before fighting others everywhere else.


Why, then the following should also happen...

UA should become relevant south of Washington DC
B6 should become relevant west of the Appalachian Mountains
AS should become relevant east of the Sierra Nevada
AA should become relevant on the west coast
DL should become relevant in the southwest
SY should become relevant outside of Minneapolis
G4 should become relevant in large cities


UA is very much relevant south of IAD. They don’t need a hub to do so.
B6 is way smaller than WN.
AS is a fraction the size of WN.
AA is the largest carrier at LAX and was planning on expanding at SEA.
DL has SLC and LAX. They were also growing AUS.
SY has like 20 aircraft...
G4’s entire business strategy is against big cities.

For WN to have only a couple dozen flights a day from NYC is embarrassing. No one here even considers them an option or relevant.
 
SWADawg
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 3:42 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
CaptainObvious1 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
WN should become relevant Northeast of Philadelphia before fighting others everywhere else.


Why, then the following should also happen...

UA should become relevant south of Washington DC
B6 should become relevant west of the Appalachian Mountains
AS should become relevant east of the Sierra Nevada
AA should become relevant on the west coast
DL should become relevant in the southwest
SY should become relevant outside of Minneapolis
G4 should become relevant in large cities


UA is very much relevant south of IAD. They don’t need a hub to do so.
B6 is way smaller than WN.
AS is a fraction the size of WN.
AA is the largest carrier at LAX and was planning on expanding at SEA.
DL has SLC and LAX. They were also growing AUS.
SY has like 20 aircraft...
G4’s entire business strategy is against big cities.

For WN to have only a couple dozen flights a day from NYC is embarrassing. No one here even considers them an option or relevant.

Well that’s sort of the point of this entire thread. WN will most likely acquire more LGA slots from other carriers that need to raise cash and downsize. I expect they will become more relevant in NYC coming out of this pandemic than they were going in.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 3:44 am

SWADawg wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
CaptainObvious1 wrote:

Why, then the following should also happen...

UA should become relevant south of Washington DC
B6 should become relevant west of the Appalachian Mountains
AS should become relevant east of the Sierra Nevada
AA should become relevant on the west coast
DL should become relevant in the southwest
SY should become relevant outside of Minneapolis
G4 should become relevant in large cities


UA is very much relevant south of IAD. They don’t need a hub to do so.
B6 is way smaller than WN.
AS is a fraction the size of WN.
AA is the largest carrier at LAX and was planning on expanding at SEA.
DL has SLC and LAX. They were also growing AUS.
SY has like 20 aircraft...
G4’s entire business strategy is against big cities.

For WN to have only a couple dozen flights a day from NYC is embarrassing. No one here even considers them an option or relevant.

Well that’s sort of the point of this entire thread. WN will most likely acquire more LGA slots from other carriers that need to raise cash and downsize. I expect they will become more relevant in NYC coming out of this pandemic than they were going in.


WN is the weak one here so who did they plan on squeezing in NYC? LGA won’t help WN. EWR serves more domestic pax then any other NYC airport and yet WN just up and left. They should probably reevaluate that decision.
 
jimbo737
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeemzing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 4:02 am

MO11 wrote:
nws2002 wrote:
DDR wrote:
WN is not a LCC


Their CASM is lower than AA/DL/UA/B6/HA, at least as of 2018 which are the latest numbers I could find quickly. While they are higher than the ULCC (NK/F9/G4) they are nowhere near the big 3.


Southwest is nearly a penny higher than JetBlue (more if you don't count fuel), and way higher that Alaska, which also isn't an LCC.


Comparing casm without adjusting for asl has been getting forum airline analysts in trouble for decades.

Shorter asl’s ensures higher unit costs.
 
n7371f
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 4:18 am

Southwest is a ruthless competitor. They went hard at DEN when believing Frontier was weak - and they were right. Then tried to buy off Frontier by making an offer to essentially remove a competitor. Actually went through with similar at Midway with ATA. Even Scott Kirby has been quoted from an internal UAL communique as describing present day SWA as wanted to diminish UAL at Denver and become top domestic carrier in Chicago.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 4:26 am

I can remember the war cries from US Airways CEO back in the day. They threw everything they had to beat WN and knock them out of the NE. I remember UA swinging with all they had in the West Coast (Shuttle.) So many of the big boys fought and fought WN back in the day.

I think WN should just keep doing what they do best, and their future looks great in comparison to the others. To me, the "war" was over a long time ago when it came to flexing muscle.

I think WN should just focus on their own piece of the pie right now. Taking a sword to the heart of anyone down right now is not kosher in my book. I am more or less thinking of every single airline employee across the world right now, and their livelihoods. I am all for a good fight when things are good, but let's face it. It's a very fragile time right now. I love Southwest, but I really think right now would be the time to focus on their own issues at the moment. Of course, this is just all my own opinion.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
evank516
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 5:33 am

What are the odds the other carriers monitor how WN does with this plan and if it works they restore a larger bulk of their flights sooner in response?
 
32andBelow
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 5:34 am

evank516 wrote:
What are the odds the other carriers monitor how WN does with this plan and if it works they restore a larger bulk of their flights sooner in response?

1/1
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 5:35 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
SWADawg wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

UA is very much relevant south of IAD. They don’t need a hub to do so.
B6 is way smaller than WN.
AS is a fraction the size of WN.
AA is the largest carrier at LAX and was planning on expanding at SEA.
DL has SLC and LAX. They were also growing AUS.
SY has like 20 aircraft...
G4’s entire business strategy is against big cities.

For WN to have only a couple dozen flights a day from NYC is embarrassing. No one here even considers them an option or relevant.

Well that’s sort of the point of this entire thread. WN will most likely acquire more LGA slots from other carriers that need to raise cash and downsize. I expect they will become more relevant in NYC coming out of this pandemic than they were going in.


WN is the weak one here so who did they plan on squeezing in NYC? LGA won’t help WN. EWR serves more domestic pax then any other NYC airport and yet WN just up and left. They should probably reevaluate that decision.

Call me crazy but WN may try to make a move in JFK that has 3 carriers’ hubs that were already in a fierce battle versus EWR which is a fortress for one carrier. I’m not saying WN will make a hub in JFK, but now would be the time to strike. With some more small but strategic growth in BOS and PHL, WN can become a real threat in the NE. They already have a toehold in LGA and still have good consumer awareness in NYC thanks to the LGA, ISP, and (now former) EWR ops.
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32andBelow
Posts: 4815
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 5:53 am

TWA772LR wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
SWADawg wrote:
Well that’s sort of the point of this entire thread. WN will most likely acquire more LGA slots from other carriers that need to raise cash and downsize. I expect they will become more relevant in NYC coming out of this pandemic than they were going in.


WN is the weak one here so who did they plan on squeezing in NYC? LGA won’t help WN. EWR serves more domestic pax then any other NYC airport and yet WN just up and left. They should probably reevaluate that decision.

Call me crazy but WN may try to make a move in JFK that has 3 carriers’ hubs that were already in a fierce battle versus EWR which is a fortress for one carrier. I’m not saying WN will make a hub in JFK, but now would be the time to strike. With some more small but strategic growth in BOS and PHL, WN can become a real threat in the NE. They already have a toehold in LGA and still have good consumer awareness in NYC thanks to the LGA, ISP, and (now former) EWR ops.

They could swipe Hawaii from Alaska maybe
 
chrisair
Posts: 2147
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 6:38 am

Dieuwer wrote:
If you think Trump will allow a major airline to go under and have 50,000+ unemployed on the streets in an election year.... think not.


There are already 43 million unemployed now.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1910
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 2:06 pm

WN like every other airline is trying to keep the lights on. It's also trying to keep it's track record of not having to laying off or force pay-cuts. During every downturn in the economy WN has always expanded to find ways to increase revenue.
Using SNA as a example it saw opportunity after 9/11 to gain marketshare as others pulled back which paid off during the downturn.
Yes it had to give slots back as others turned around over time but the gamble paid off.
Instead of parking aircraft during the first mini recession WN decided it was time to finally add DEN and opened MKE.
During the down times WN has always made decisions to make moves to keep revenue coming in. Yes this pandemic is horrible but it can either scale back to nothing and furlough thousands adding to the unemployment numbers. Or it can be nimble and carefully balance it's stability and grow it's revenue to keep It's people employed.
Ya I know it's sucks for UA,AA and DL But WN treats it's employees as an Cherished asset vs a sliding number you can just cut on a whim.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
N766UA
Posts: 8317
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 2:50 pm

chrisair wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
If you think Trump will allow a major airline to go under and have 50,000+ unemployed on the streets in an election year.... think not.


There are already 43 million unemployed now.


No kidding. I know Trump pretends to be all-powerful, but dude, seriously? “Allow?”

The majors will shrink. Many will lose their jobs. But opportunity will be created as the big 3 shrink and airlines like Southwest, Spirit, JetBlue, etc, if they’re smart (and can survive,) should already be thinking about how to capitalize.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4113
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines planning on squeezing competitors in weaker positions

Sat May 23, 2020 3:14 pm

WN also is willing to back out of markets. They have a presence in Seattle, but less than before. They seem to have decided to let Alaska and Delta fight it out, and remain a profitable(?) third place presence.
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