Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 7
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3796
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Mon May 25, 2020 6:19 am

onwFan wrote:
jordanh wrote:
tphuang wrote:
It's kind of ridiculous to say that losing dominant carrier partnership at the largest NA market and largest 2 European market is not a big loss.
Plenty of people buy connecting itineraries of code shared and interlined alliance partners in OW without JV. I used to always pick OW airlines when I was EXP regardless of whether or not they had JV with AA. That was a huge benefit of being in OW. And now all they got is DL.


You must not know much about LA. We are very well know in southern Florida, and will continue to serve our loyal passengers there. Delta may add some connecting passengers, but that is what you say is "gravy". Delta's huge hub at Atlanta brings flights to all of our hubs in South America, and we will take those passengers throughout the continent.

We have our own flights to Orlando, Los Angeles, and JFK. If we add our own flights to ATL, we will have access to many more connections than AA gave at MIA. You are welcome to stick with OW; we have moved up from there.


n9801f wrote:
But when traffic is weak, you can’t afford to split up the few passengers across two US gateways or you’ll get two half-full intercontinental flights. In those times LATAM might prefer AA.



I don't know why people who are from other places (probably from AA employees) keep telling us what we might prefer. We didn't enter an agreement with Delta blindfolded; we knew what we were doing. We continue to handle traffic to Miami with many flights - we certainly don't need AA to do that - and we will receive some feed from DL there. Delta will continue to fly from ATL (and from all the places served via Atlanta) to South America, and we will happily take over from there.

Had we not partnered with Delta, and had they not helped us financially and by taking some of out aircraft orders, we would be in far worse shape than we are now.


Things are not just as straightforward as you make them appear. LA relied a lot on AA and IB’s network strength to provide numerous nonstop options to its customers. As part of oneworld, they were able to sell non-stop flights from almost every country/major city in South America to MIA and MAD; which have all disappeared. For example, by relying on their oneworld partners AA and IB, LA was able to sell competitive non-stop options on several big routes that it didn’t fly, like EZE-MAD, BOG-MAD, UIO/GYE-MAD, GIG-MIA/MAD, BOG/CLO/MDE/CTG/BAQ-MIA, UIO/GYE-MAD, BOG-MAD, etc. In addition, as far as LA’s routes to MAD and MIA are concerned, not only do IB and AA fly those routes, they offer higher frequencies. This crisis is only going to further reduce the number of options LA will have to the US and Europe. To say that by leaving most of its current fliers to either backtrack and connect to one of their hubs or ATL was a brilliant idea just doesn’t make much sense.


I do not know the exact details of the JV but generally the deals DL works out with its distressed JV partners are very pro-Delta. It remains to be seen how the revenue is going to be split and how that is going to benefit LA.
 
airhansa
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Mon May 25, 2020 6:26 am

What are the rules on foreign ownership in Latin America? This could provide an opportunity for some of the stronger European/Asian airlines to expand into the market (Iberia, Scoot, etc...).
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1972
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Mon May 25, 2020 7:49 am

usflyer msp wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
I wonder how much of this is Brazil and how much is TAM related. Given that TAM were rumoured to be close to bankruptcy when LAN merged with them the underlying Brazil market might be a significant drag?


The former TAM operation (Brazil/Paraguay) was the most profitable part of the company the last two years. Its profits pretty much subsidized the rest of the company . LATAM Argentina is the big consistent money loser followed by LATAM Cargo and LATAM Colombia. Looking at their results, it may actually help LATAM that air traffic to Colombia and Argentina is essentially shut down until September.

2019 results
Image

2018 results
Image


I think those results dont include the LATAM Chile business - it looks like its just the subsidiaries. But agreed, good result for Brazil though.
 
Mortyman
Posts: 5856
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Mon May 25, 2020 8:19 am

I am surprised that LATAM does not have stronger legs to stand on and surprised that the governments does not seem to be willing to help out. LATAM is the biggest South American airline. If that one is not capable of surviving, who is in South America ?
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2835
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Mon May 25, 2020 8:50 am

Why do you think the govt. should help out- this isn't Europe. Varig, Vasp, Transbrasil...
 
bkmbr
Posts: 267
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:27 am

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Mon May 25, 2020 2:19 pm

eta unknown wrote:
Why do you think the govt. should help out- this isn't Europe. Varig, Vasp, Transbrasil...


The Latam situation is quite different from the Varig, Vasp and Transbrasil situation. The Brazilian goverment had a series of legal problems with Varig, Vasp, Transbrasil due an attempt by the Brazilian government to artificially control ticket values between 1985 and 1991 through a series of price-fixing scheme in one of the several economic plans of the 1980s that did not work. This scheme was ruled unconstitutional by the supreme court of Brazil and that caused the Brazilian government to be condemned to pay about US$ 2 billion (at the time) that companies have never in fact received. Transbrasil still managed to write off part of its debts of BRL 700 million in 1997 based on this judgment, but it was not enough to save the company. VASP and Varig never had this chance. Latam does not have this kind of debt with the Brazilian government now a days, and with the bankruptcy of Avianca Brasil last year, the sector was heavily concentrated with Gol and Latam (with a smaller share of Azul). The Brazilian government may not even want to help companies, but an aid package has already been negotiated with companies with BNDES and the help of private banks in the country. Maybe the aid package may not able to save companies but at least guarantee their short-term survival.
 
n9801f
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:29 am

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Mon May 25, 2020 2:36 pm

Mortyman wrote:
I am surprised that LATAM does not have stronger legs to stand on and surprised that the governments does not seem to be willing to help out.


The political situation in many LATAM countries was strained even before Covid, as mentioned upthread. Several LATAM countries had serious civil unrest. When huge numbers of people are protesting for improved living conditions and setting fire to buildings, the optics of spending poor taxpayers' money on an airline are politically unacceptable.

jordanh wrote:
You must not know much about LA.


Actually, I do. I've flown it several times. It's an extremely good airline, among the best in the world. Very professionally run. So it's especially sad this is happening to them. I wish LATAM the very best.

onwFan wrote:
I don't know why people who are from other places (probably from AA employees) keep telling us what we might prefer.


I see your point. The point I was making is that whether or not LA prefers it, economically it might be "better off" in a downturn with AA.

Corpsnerd09 wrote:
There's not one thread in this forum that doesn't end in a DL vs AA and sometimes UA but always DL vs trend.


Sorry you feel that way. But in this case, AA/DL is 100% central to the issue at hand. LA needs a US partner with a good route match and is in process of switching between these two.
 
Antarius
Posts: 2423
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Mon May 25, 2020 3:48 pm

dcajet wrote:
This thread has been hijacked by AA/OW & DL fanboys,,, Jeez... Can we focus on LATAM instead of discussing ad nauseaum if AA or DL was/is better for LA?


US traffic is a large part of their business and their JV and partnership is relavant to their success and failure.

I don't think the topic is unrelated.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
jfk777
Posts: 7355
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Mon May 25, 2020 7:16 pm

The main reason Latam ditch AA is the Supreme Court in Chile wouldn't approve the JV. My question is: is a JV with Delta involving all LATAM & DL flights to the USA better than NO JV with AA from Chile to the USA but with AA from Brazil, Argentina, Peru, Colombia and Ecuador to the USA plus all OW flights to Spain on Iberia plus Latam's own flights to Europe ? Realize that is a mouth full, Europe is important too.
 
Gbass21
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:01 pm

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Mon May 25, 2020 9:23 pm

I'm really laughing by some comments here. How on earth getting out of a monopoly is positive for LA? They dominate with ease South America - MAD traffic (IB) and for connections they had LHR (BA). They had the biggest airline in MIA (AA) who also dominates in JFK, LAX and for connections you have DFW, also they had a good presence in ORD or PHL. And, to end with, they had an absolute monopoly on SCL-NZ/AUS traffic. ALL of these will go to trash just by lefting One World and go DL So, please, how could you pretend to making us believe that this is beneficial for latam? Yes, DL has more connections on ATL, but, do you really think that south americans really demands connections to baltimore, salt lake city or Minneapolis? Most of SA traffic at 99% is to MIA, JFK, LAX, MCO, IAH/DFW, IAD, ORD and on less demand SFO or LAS. The only winner here is DL, who finnaly has a partner in south america (AR is a joke) and also disrupt the South america-US monopoly. DL works well with AM because the huge mexican diaspora all over US, but not for chilleans, argentinians or brazillians; they just go for holidays or for asian conecctions.

United should have been a better option to partner with, at least they had partners in the same continents as AA, and its route profiles are similar. AA has JFK, DFW, LAX. UA has EWR, IAH, SFO. Also NZ for Oceania connections and Lufthansa group in EU. But I would still think, that AA was the best partner possible for them.
 
questions
Posts: 2337
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Mon May 25, 2020 9:41 pm

Gbass21 wrote:
I'm really laughing by some comments here. How on earth getting out of a monopoly is positive for LA? They dominate with ease South America - MAD traffic (IB) and for connections they had LHR (BA). They had the biggest airline in MIA (AA) who also dominates in JFK, LAX and for connections you have DFW, also they had a good presence in ORD or PHL. And, to end with, they had an absolute monopoly on SCL-NZ/AUS traffic. ALL of these will go to trash just by lefting One World and go DL So, please, how could you pretend to making us believe that this is beneficial for latam? Yes, DL has more connections on ATL, but, do you really think that south americans really demands connections to baltimore, salt lake city or Minneapolis? Most of SA traffic at 99% is to MIA, JFK, LAX, MCO, IAH/DFW, IAD, ORD and on less demand SFO or LAS. The only winner here is DL, who finnaly has a partner in south america (AR is a joke) and also disrupt the South america-US monopoly. DL works well with AM because the huge mexican diaspora all over US, but not for chilleans, argentinians or brazillians; they just go for holidays or for asian conecctions.

United should have been a better option to partner with, at least they had partners in the same continents as AA, and its route profiles are similar. AA has JFK, DFW, LAX. UA has EWR, IAH, SFO. Also NZ for Oceania connections and Lufthansa group in EU. But I would still think, that AA was the best partner possible for them.


Do you have any data to supplement your arguments?

A lot of folks on a.net conduct network analysis and planning by looking at a map. DL and LA would not enter into an agreement without detailed, complex modeling. It is expensive and fraught with risks. I for one would love to see some of those models, including the variables and analytics used. If you have any insights into them please share — I’m probably not the only one interested in this aspect of strategic planning.
 
jordanh
Posts: 325
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:56 pm

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Mon May 25, 2020 11:02 pm

Gbass21 wrote:
I'm really laughing by some comments here. How on earth getting out of a monopoly is positive for LA? They dominate with ease South America - MAD traffic (IB) and for connections they had LHR (BA).


We have more European partners than that; and nothing has changed with any of our European partners. You probably need to check that before making these statements.

Gbass21 wrote:
They had the biggest airline in MIA (AA) who also dominates in JFK, LAX and for connections you have DFW, also they had a good presence in ORD or PHL.


AA does not dominate at JFK; it is almost a joke there. LAX is split very evenly between the 3 major US carriers. Connections can happen at any hub airport; there is nothing special about DFW, ORD, or PHL, and ORD and PHL don't have any South American flights anyway.


Gbass21 wrote:
Yes, DL has more connections on ATL, but, do you really think that south americans really demands connections to baltimore, salt lake city or Minneapolis? Most of SA traffic at 99% is to MIA, JFK, LAX, MCO, IAH/DFW, IAD, ORD and on less demand SFO or LAS.


You denigrate connections to BWI, but you think IAD is a major loss? You do know those are the same market, don't you? (We actually dropped IAD because of lack of business).


Gbass21 wrote:
Most of SA traffic at 99% is to MIA,


We don't need a partner for that, we fly there;

Gbass21 wrote:
JFK


We fly there;

Gbass21 wrote:
LAX


We fly there;

Gbass21 wrote:
MCO,


We fly there;

Gbass21 wrote:
IAH/DFW, IAD, ORD and on less demand SFO or LAS.


Do you know the numbers to those airports? Not enough for n/s flights; that is what connections are for. And, except for DFW, Delta offers much better connections to those airports than AA ever did.

Gbass21 wrote:
DL works well with AM because the huge mexican diaspora all over US, but not for chilleans, argentinians or brazillians; they just go for holidays or for asian conecctions.


Do you know anything about the South American diaspora in the USA? And tell me all about AA's "Asian connections" in Miami.


questions wrote:
Gbass21 wrote:
I'm really laughing by some comments here. How on earth getting out of a monopoly is positive for LA? They dominate with ease South America - MAD traffic (IB) and for connections they had LHR (BA). They had the biggest airline in MIA (AA) who also dominates in JFK, LAX and for connections you have DFW, also they had a good presence in ORD or PHL. And, to end with, they had an absolute monopoly on SCL-NZ/AUS traffic. ALL of these will go to trash just by lefting One World and go DL So, please, how could you pretend to making us believe that this is beneficial for latam? Yes, DL has more connections on ATL, but, do you really think that south americans really demands connections to baltimore, salt lake city or Minneapolis? Most of SA traffic at 99% is to MIA, JFK, LAX, MCO, IAH/DFW, IAD, ORD and on less demand SFO or LAS. The only winner here is DL, who finnaly has a partner in south america (AR is a joke) and also disrupt the South america-US monopoly. DL works well with AM because the huge mexican diaspora all over US, but not for chilleans, argentinians or brazillians; they just go for holidays or for asian conecctions. United should have been a better option to partner with, at least they had partners in the same continents as AA, and its route profiles are similar. AA has JFK, DFW, LAX. UA has EWR, IAH, SFO. Also NZ for Oceania connections and Lufthansa group in EU. But I would still think, that AA was the best partner possible for them.

Do you have any data to supplement your arguments?


I would like to see that, too.


questions wrote:
A lot of folks on a.net conduct network analysis and planning by looking at a map. DL and LA would not enter into an agreement without detailed, complex modeling. It is expensive and fraught with risks. I for one would love to see some of those models, including the variables and analytics used. If you have any insights into them please share — I’m probably not the only one interested in this aspect of strategic planning.



:checkmark: . Lots and lots of detailed modeling, to be sure.


Gbass21 wrote:
I'm really laughing by some comments here.


Please try to take a little time out from your laughing and provide us with some verifiable facts.
Last edited by jordanh on Mon May 25, 2020 11:20 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
volks92
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:53 am

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Mon May 25, 2020 11:04 pm

Mortyman wrote:
I am surprised that LATAM does not have stronger legs to stand on and surprised that the governments does not seem to be willing to help out. LATAM is the biggest South American airline. If that one is not capable of surviving, who is in South America ?

The Brazilian government laid out a R$ 2 bi rescue package for LATAM a couple of weeks ago, to which they agreed to:

https://translate.google.ca/translate?s ... z-bndes%2F
 
Antarius
Posts: 2423
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Mon May 25, 2020 11:17 pm

questions wrote:
Gbass21 wrote:
I'm really laughing by some comments here. How on earth getting out of a monopoly is positive for LA? They dominate with ease South America - MAD traffic (IB) and for connections they had LHR (BA). They had the biggest airline in MIA (AA) who also dominates in JFK, LAX and for connections you have DFW, also they had a good presence in ORD or PHL. And, to end with, they had an absolute monopoly on SCL-NZ/AUS traffic. ALL of these will go to trash just by lefting One World and go DL So, please, how could you pretend to making us believe that this is beneficial for latam? Yes, DL has more connections on ATL, but, do you really think that south americans really demands connections to baltimore, salt lake city or Minneapolis? Most of SA traffic at 99% is to MIA, JFK, LAX, MCO, IAH/DFW, IAD, ORD and on less demand SFO or LAS. The only winner here is DL, who finnaly has a partner in south america (AR is a joke) and also disrupt the South america-US monopoly. DL works well with AM because the huge mexican diaspora all over US, but not for chilleans, argentinians or brazillians; they just go for holidays or for asian conecctions.

United should have been a better option to partner with, at least they had partners in the same continents as AA, and its route profiles are similar. AA has JFK, DFW, LAX. UA has EWR, IAH, SFO. Also NZ for Oceania connections and Lufthansa group in EU. But I would still think, that AA was the best partner possible for them.


Do you have any data to supplement your arguments?

A lot of folks on a.net conduct network analysis and planning by looking at a map. DL and LA would not enter into an agreement without detailed, complex modeling. It is expensive and fraught with risks. I for one would love to see some of those models, including the variables and analytics used. If you have any insights into them please share — I’m probably not the only one interested in this aspect of strategic planning.


DL needed the network.
LA needed the money.

It's pretty simple actually. Latam needed the money and DL had it. Latam wasn't ín a position of strength to choose the monopoly/best network AND the money. So they did what made sense for them.

That doesn't mean that all the advantages of AA as a partner magically vanish. They just were outweighed by the need for 2 billion dollars and losing some unnecessary a350 frames to someone who needed them.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
dcajet
Posts: 4689
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Mon May 25, 2020 11:17 pm

Mortyman wrote:
I am surprised that LATAM does not have stronger legs to stand on and surprised that the governments does not seem to be willing to help out. LATAM is the biggest South American airline. If that one is not capable of surviving, who is in South America ?


Irony mode on.

Aerolineas Argentinas. Just like its relative by cultural ties, Alitalia, they are immune to the vagaries of the free market. They will live to see another day when many will have stayed behind.

Irony mode off
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4689
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Mon May 25, 2020 11:21 pm

Antarius wrote:
dcajet wrote:
This thread has been hijacked by AA/OW & DL fanboys,,, Jeez... Can we focus on LATAM instead of discussing ad nauseaum if AA or DL was/is better for LA?


US traffic is a large part of their business and their JV and partnership is relavant to their success and failure.

I don't think the topic is unrelated.


Topic is relevant, personal fanboy-ism is not. And we have seen quite a bit of the latter on here, IMHO.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
onwFan
Posts: 437
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Mon May 25, 2020 11:21 pm

jordanh wrote:
We have more European partners than that; and nothing has changed with any of our European partners. You probably need to check that before making these statements.

Is that so? Then why have all IB codeshares on LA flights disappeared beyond Oct? That relationship is basically done. Codeshare with LH group or a prospective codeshare with AF/KL is not going to be a substitute for the numerous non-stops available through IB.
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2947
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Mon May 25, 2020 11:34 pm

Mortyman wrote:
I am surprised that LATAM does not have stronger legs to stand on and surprised that the governments does not seem to be willing to help out. LATAM is the biggest South American airline. If that one is not capable of surviving, who is in South America ?
CM, depending on your definition of where South America northern limit is.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7355
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 12:17 am

Its sad the Governments of Brazil and Chile don't care about their airline industry, how many thousands of their citizens work earning decent wages at LATAM. How much Cargo do all those 777 & 787 leaving GRU and SCL for Europe and Miami contribute to exports to those countries ? Billions of Dollars and Euros yearly. It's just sad if Brazil loses another airline, long may Varig live and dam sad it was allowed to go into the dustbin of history. Will President Bolsinaro let another Brazilian airline go under ? Lets hope the answer is NO.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3796
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 12:20 am

jfk777 wrote:
Its sad the Governments of Brazil and Chile don't care about their airline industry, how many thousands of their citizens work earning decent wages at LATAM. How much Cargo do all those 777 & 787 leaving GRU and SCL for Europe and Miami contribute to exports to those countries ? Billions of Dollars and Euros yearly. It's just sad if Brazil loses another airline, long may Varig live and dam sad it was allowed to go into the dustbin of history. Will President Bolsinaro let another Brazilian airline go under ? Lets hope the answer is NO.


Brazil is giving LATAM (and its competitors as well) a support package. Chile and the rest of the Spanish-Speaking Countries are the ones balking.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4689
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 12:29 am

usflyer msp wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Its sad the Governments of Brazil and Chile don't care about their airline industry, how many thousands of their citizens work earning decent wages at LATAM. How much Cargo do all those 777 & 787 leaving GRU and SCL for Europe and Miami contribute to exports to those countries ? Billions of Dollars and Euros yearly. It's just sad if Brazil loses another airline, long may Varig live and dam sad it was allowed to go into the dustbin of history. Will President Bolsinaro let another Brazilian airline go under ? Lets hope the answer is NO.


Brazil is giving LATAM (and its competitors as well) a support package. Chile and the rest of the Spanish-Speaking Countries are the ones balking.


Argentina has been propping up AR for years now. The AR folks get a neat support package every day of the year. There were some meetings between the privately owned airlines and the government about rescue packages but nothing came out of it; Flybondi even said there was ill will on the part of the government. Not surprised.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
bkmbr
Posts: 267
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:27 am

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 1:41 am

dcajet wrote:
Argentina has been propping up AR for years now. The AR folks get a neat support package every day of the year. There were some meetings between the privately owned airlines and the government about rescue packages but nothing came out of it; Flybondi even said there was ill will on the part of the government. Not surprised.


AR is quite important for Argentina as big parts of the Patagonia can only be reach quickly by airplane, specially in the winter, and LADE alone won't be able to handle the extra load of passengers and cargo without Aerolineas and Austral helping it since is quite a small organization within the Argentine Air Force. Is natural that the government seeks to maintain the company even with bad financial results. Obviously, AR will have to be rationalized and restructured after the covid situation and once the austral is effectively absorbed by the company, but the company is an important lifeline for those living in the Patagonian region and Flybondi won't think twice in letting those in need if they don't get the money they are expecting. I don't expect to see AR going away anytime soon, is not just a business matter, is a political as well (just as almost everything in Argentina nowadays to be fair).
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8060
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 2:30 am

Antarius wrote:
questions wrote:
Gbass21 wrote:
I'm really laughing by some comments here. How on earth getting out of a monopoly is positive for LA? They dominate with ease South America - MAD traffic (IB) and for connections they had LHR (BA). They had the biggest airline in MIA (AA) who also dominates in JFK, LAX and for connections you have DFW, also they had a good presence in ORD or PHL. And, to end with, they had an absolute monopoly on SCL-NZ/AUS traffic. ALL of these will go to trash just by lefting One World and go DL So, please, how could you pretend to making us believe that this is beneficial for latam? Yes, DL has more connections on ATL, but, do you really think that south americans really demands connections to baltimore, salt lake city or Minneapolis? Most of SA traffic at 99% is to MIA, JFK, LAX, MCO, IAH/DFW, IAD, ORD and on less demand SFO or LAS. The only winner here is DL, who finnaly has a partner in south america (AR is a joke) and also disrupt the South america-US monopoly. DL works well with AM because the huge mexican diaspora all over US, but not for chilleans, argentinians or brazillians; they just go for holidays or for asian conecctions.

United should have been a better option to partner with, at least they had partners in the same continents as AA, and its route profiles are similar. AA has JFK, DFW, LAX. UA has EWR, IAH, SFO. Also NZ for Oceania connections and Lufthansa group in EU. But I would still think, that AA was the best partner possible for them.


Do you have any data to supplement your arguments?

A lot of folks on a.net conduct network analysis and planning by looking at a map. DL and LA would not enter into an agreement without detailed, complex modeling. It is expensive and fraught with risks. I for one would love to see some of those models, including the variables and analytics used. If you have any insights into them please share — I’m probably not the only one interested in this aspect of strategic planning.


DL needed the network.
LA needed the money.

It's pretty simple actually. Latam needed the money and DL had it. Latam wasn't ín a position of strength to choose the monopoly/best network AND the money. So they did what made sense for them.

That doesn't mean that all the advantages of AA as a partner magically vanish. They just were outweighed by the need for 2 billion dollars and losing some unnecessary a350 frames to someone who needed them.


LATAM didn't get Delta's $1.9 Billion - LATAM shareholders did. LATAM did not issue new equity.

DL did make some payments to LATAM outside of the equity purchase - not related to aircraft purchases.
 
Antarius
Posts: 2423
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 3:02 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
questions wrote:

Do you have any data to supplement your arguments?

A lot of folks on a.net conduct network analysis and planning by looking at a map. DL and LA would not enter into an agreement without detailed, complex modeling. It is expensive and fraught with risks. I for one would love to see some of those models, including the variables and analytics used. If you have any insights into them please share — I’m probably not the only one interested in this aspect of strategic planning.


DL needed the network.
LA needed the money.

It's pretty simple actually. Latam needed the money and DL had it. Latam wasn't ín a position of strength to choose the monopoly/best network AND the money. So they did what made sense for them.

That doesn't mean that all the advantages of AA as a partner magically vanish. They just were outweighed by the need for 2 billion dollars and losing some unnecessary a350 frames to someone who needed them.


LATAM didn't get Delta's $1.9 Billion - LATAM shareholders did. LATAM did not issue new equity.

DL did make some payments to LATAM outside of the equity purchase - not related to aircraft purchases.


AFAIK, they didn't buy 20% on the open market, so while no new equity was issued, it didn't come from third party shareholders only.

They did also give them 350 million + money for the a350s.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
PB26
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:09 am

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 3:28 am

Brazilian newspaper O Estado de São Paulo reports LATAM may ask administration in Chile, Brazil and US.

Link in portuguese: https://economia.estadao.com.br/noticia ... 0003314415
Rio and all South America by Panair do Brasil’s jets.
 
User avatar
Continental767
Posts: 171
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:22 pm

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 4:43 am

LATAM USA’s social media accounts have announced a Chapter 11 filing.

Bloomberg has picked up the story: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -lockdowns

EDIT: added Bloomberg link
Indianapolis.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4689
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 4:48 am

bkmbr wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Argentina has been propping up AR for years now. The AR folks get a neat support package every day of the year. There were some meetings between the privately owned airlines and the government about rescue packages but nothing came out of it; Flybondi even said there was ill will on the part of the government. Not surprised.


AR is quite important for Argentina as big parts of the Patagonia can only be reach quickly by airplane, specially in the winter, and LADE alone won't be able to handle the extra load of passengers and cargo without Aerolineas and Austral helping it since is quite a small organization within the Argentine Air Force. Is natural that the government seeks to maintain the company even with bad financial results. Obviously, AR will have to be rationalized and restructured after the covid situation and once the austral is effectively absorbed by the company, but the company is an important lifeline for those living in the Patagonian region and Flybondi won't think twice in letting those in need if they don't get the money they are expecting. I don't expect to see AR going away anytime soon, is not just a business matter, is a political as well (just as almost everything in Argentina nowadays to be fair).


LADE has been reduced to just a few flights with SAAB 340s, and I'm not sure if even those operate any longer with any regularity.

Of course AR serves the larger interests of Argentina as a state, but those "remote and special places that AR alone serves" are 2-3 cities in Patagonia such as EQS and RGA. The rest of Patagonia sees competition from LATAM, Flybondi, Andes or JetSmart/Norwegian. AR is much more interested in chasing the tourist that flies to Ushuaia, Bariloche and Calafate. Those 2 cities could be served by any other airline with the right incentives, that I bet would be less than the hundreds of millions of dollars the Argentinian tax payer gives to AR, year in and year out.

The problem with AR is, that under the present government, it has it both ways: it's judge and jury. It is hard to tell where the airline ends and the ANAC begins. It sets the rules for which all other local airlines must abide and its management makes no secret that they want to drive the competition to the ground and out of business: a zero sum game of a predatory nature. They did in the 70s with Austral (independent then), with LAN Argentina 10 years ago and now with the ULCCs (and if they can chase LATAM away, even better).

And they just might get it due to the pandemic.

Apologies for the off topic
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4689
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 5:01 am

LATAM has set up a website for info regarding its bankruptcy filing:

https://www.latamreorganizacion.com/

They have NOT (at this time) declared bankruptcy in Argentina or Brazil. Both markets are out of the CH 11 filing, as is Paraguay. Rest of the markets (Chile, Peru, Colombia, Ecuador, USA, Cayman Islands and the Netherlands) are in, as is the parent organization in Chile.
Last edited by dcajet on Tue May 26, 2020 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 5:05 am

Oops!!!
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3796
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 5:06 am

Continental767 wrote:
LATAM USA’s social media accounts have announced a Chapter 11 filing.

Bloomberg has picked up the story: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -lockdowns

EDIT: added Bloomberg link


I bet heads are exploding in Atlanta. Delta just had their 2b investment wiped out, they are still on the hook for the A350s and OW departure fee, and their arch enemy QR just gained a greater say in how LATAM will be restructured by providing the CH11 financing.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2846
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 5:07 am

 
User avatar
Continental767
Posts: 171
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:22 pm

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 5:19 am

usflyer msp wrote:
Continental767 wrote:
LATAM USA’s social media accounts have announced a Chapter 11 filing.

Bloomberg has picked up the story: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -lockdowns

EDIT: added Bloomberg link


I bet heads are exploding in Atlanta. Delta just had their 2b investment wiped out, they are still on the hook for the A350s and OW departure fee, and their arch enemy QR just gained a greater say in how LATAM will be restructured by providing the CH11 financing.


Agreed. The fact that QR has invested in LATAM’s bankruptcy loan means that they have a big say over how the airline is run. We all know how QR feels about DL, so it will be interesting to see what they do. Could we see QR attempt to push them back to AA and other OW partners? Will be interesting to see.

In all honesty, I could see LATAM attempting to get out of this DL deal. Losing the Miami feed from AA was a massive blow- trying to route passengers through Atlanta is not the same as routing them through the gateway to Latin America. A Chapter 11 filing gives the company a chance to rework and renegotiate contrasts with influence from the companies that gave them a bankruptcy loan (QR).
Last edited by Continental767 on Tue May 26, 2020 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Indianapolis.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 5:21 am

Trust me, they would do ANYTHING to have some feed in Miami while going through this. Too late now...
 
OB1504
Posts: 3962
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 5:43 am

Detroit313 wrote:
Trust me, they would do ANYTHING to have some feed in Miami while going through this. Too late now...


What feed could they get if most countries in South America have closed their borders to international flights?
 
Detroit313
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 5:46 am

OB1504 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Trust me, they would do ANYTHING to have some feed in Miami while going through this. Too late now...


What feed could they get if most countries in South America have closed their borders to international flights?


When things start to recover, Miami feed will be crucial. They so regret it right now.

Read the press release. They mention QATAR and how crucial and important their support is everywhere in the press release. Not a single mention of Delta.
 
LawAndOrder
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:56 pm

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 6:17 am

The Delta hate is real. QR couldn’t stop delta from connecting with LA they certainly won’t be pushing DL away. They will be a thorn but I’m sure QR/DL will learn to coexist. Yes they gain more from the bankruptcy loan but that doesn’t give them full ruling power. Plus the check hasn’t been written for all of the 350s. Delta could use those as bargaining power. QR wasn’t interested in keeping the 350s they had on lease from LA and as a consequence will be going to DL all of which QR could have prevented.

I think people are over stating what AA did For LA in Miami. Delta Could add 3 flights to the top 10 destinations (which they already serve 3).Delta could theoretically keep a subset of their 717s to cover when the demand returns using its current gates. That’s roughly 24 planes doing 2.5 turns a day. Add in a few 321s and you have the Demand covered for the top 20 connection markets for LA/AA feed. Someone please provide data to negate.

Plus strongest position in the second highest SA market at jfk and a even race in LA the third highest market. Not to mention a few new 350s they can throw on routes to aid LA. That all in addition to whatever they can squeeze out of atl. Just because you like an airline or work for it doesn’t mean what has prevailed before will always prevail. Will DL cripple AA no but did leaving AA connection cripple LA no or they wouldn’t have left. People spent months modeling cases not just going off feelings.
Last edited by LawAndOrder on Tue May 26, 2020 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
kondoo
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 4:34 am

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 6:20 am

Continental767 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Continental767 wrote:
LATAM USA’s social media accounts have announced a Chapter 11 filing.
In all honesty, I could see LATAM attempting to get out of this DL deal. Losing the Miami feed from AA was a massive blow- trying to route passengers through Atlanta is not the same as routing them through the gateway to Latin America. A Chapter 11 filing gives the company a chance to rework and renegotiate contrasts with influence from the companies that gave them a bankruptcy loan (QR).


They could attempt but I don't know if they are going to be welcomed with open arms.
 
LawAndOrder
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:56 pm

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 6:28 am

Continental767 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Continental767 wrote:
LATAM USA’s social media accounts have announced a Chapter 11 filing.

Bloomberg has picked up the story: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -lockdowns

EDIT: added Bloomberg link


I bet heads are exploding in Atlanta. Delta just had their 2b investment wiped out, they are still on the hook for the A350s and OW departure fee, and their arch enemy QR just gained a greater say in how LATAM will be restructured by providing the CH11 financing.


Agreed. The fact that QR has invested in LATAM’s bankruptcy loan means that they have a big say over how the airline is run. We all know how QR feels about DL, so it will be interesting to see what they do. Could we see QR attempt to push them back to AA and other OW partners? Will be interesting to see.

In all honesty, I could see LATAM attempting to get out of this DL deal. Losing the Miami feed from AA was a massive blow- trying to route passengers through Atlanta is not the same as routing them through the gateway to Latin America. A Chapter 11 filing gives the company a chance to rework and renegotiate contrasts with influence from the companies that gave them a bankruptcy loan (QR).


If QR attempted to push them out all of the first paragraph would not happen. Delta didn’t provide them all of the cash upfront. So maybe that wouldn’t be bad as they wouldn’t lose 2B and the rest of the fees as you say. LA won’t be coming back to AA without some major money set backs which have not been paid thus aren’t apart of the restructure. So let’s see what QR can do with an additional 14 350s.
 
Westerwaelder
Posts: 240
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 6:34 am

LawAndOrder wrote:
The Delta hate is real. QR couldn’t stop delta from connecting with LA they certainly won’t be pushing DL away. They will be a thorn but I’m sure QR/DL will learn to coexist. Yes they gain more from the bankruptcy loan but that doesn’t give them full ruling power. Plus the check hasn’t been written for all of the 350s. Delta could use those as bargaining power. QR wasn’t interested in keeping the 350s they had on lease from LA and as a consequence will be going to DL all of which QR could have prevented.

I think people are over stating what AA did For LA in Miami. Delta Could add 3 flights to the top 10 destinations (which they already serve 3).Delta could theoretically keep a subset of their 717s to cover when the demand returns using its current gates. That’s roughly 24 planes doing 2.5 turns a day. Add in a few 321s and you have the Demand covered for the top 20 connection markets for LA/AA feed. Someone please provide data to negate.

Plus strongest position in the second highest SA market at jfk and a even race in LA the third highest market. Not to mention a few new 350s they can throw on routes to aid LA. That all in addition to whatever they can squeeze out of atl. Just because you like an airline or work for it doesn’t mean what has prevailed before will always prevail. Will DL cripple AA no but did leaving AA connection cripple LA no or they wouldn’t have left. People spent months modeling cases not just going off feelings.


Only, that is all pie in the sky. DL could do this in MIA, DL could do that in MIA. They will need their focus on shoring up their core markets not adding 717s to MIA.
 
ABEguy
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: LATAM moving towards bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 6:40 am

kondoo wrote:
Continental767 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:


They could attempt but I don't know if they are going to be welcomed with open arms.


Don’t see AA being eager to repair that relationship. The agreement with GOL is still going forward. AA has already made plans to add extra flights to LIM GRU SCL (whenever those countries open up). The demand for Latin America travel will be soft for awhile so no real value in connections with LATAM.
 
LawAndOrder
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:56 pm

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 6:42 am

Westerwaelder wrote:
LawAndOrder wrote:
The Delta hate is real. QR couldn’t stop delta from connecting with LA they certainly won’t be pushing DL away. They will be a thorn but I’m sure QR/DL will learn to coexist. Yes they gain more from the bankruptcy loan but that doesn’t give them full ruling power. Plus the check hasn’t been written for all of the 350s. Delta could use those as bargaining power. QR wasn’t interested in keeping the 350s they had on lease from LA and as a consequence will be going to DL all of which QR could have prevented.

I think people are over stating what AA did For LA in Miami. Delta Could add 3 flights to the top 10 destinations (which they already serve 3).Delta could theoretically keep a subset of their 717s to cover when the demand returns using its current gates. That’s roughly 24 planes doing 2.5 turns a day. Add in a few 321s and you have the Demand covered for the top 20 connection markets for LA/AA feed. Someone please provide data to negate.

Plus strongest position in the second highest SA market at jfk and a even race in LA the third highest market. Not to mention a few new 350s they can throw on routes to aid LA. That all in addition to whatever they can squeeze out of atl. Just because you like an airline or work for it doesn’t mean what has prevailed before will always prevail. Will DL cripple AA no but did leaving AA connection cripple LA no or they wouldn’t have left. People spent months modeling cases not just going off feelings.


Only, that is all pie in the sky. DL could do this in MIA, DL could do that in MIA. They will need their focus on shoring up their core markets not adding 717s to MIA.


So a plan that was part of the reasoning for LA to switch is a pie in the sky? Why do you think LA left AA. Do you believe you have analyzed the situation better than LA and DL network planning team?

I’m pretty sure delta already had plans to replace displaced connections. I would imagine DL plan was always multiple year. If the LA partnership is that important it wouldn’t be hard for their planners to swap priorities. Bring in the flights they were planning and hold off other loss making markets coming back.

If they don’t care then they will dump their plans but that won’t exactly leave LA or QR in a good position as they will have the bare the brunt of some expensive aircraft.
 
Westerwaelder
Posts: 240
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 6:47 am

LawAndOrder wrote:
Westerwaelder wrote:
LawAndOrder wrote:
The Delta hate is real. QR couldn’t stop delta from connecting with LA they certainly won’t be pushing DL away. They will be a thorn but I’m sure QR/DL will learn to coexist. Yes they gain more from the bankruptcy loan but that doesn’t give them full ruling power. Plus the check hasn’t been written for all of the 350s. Delta could use those as bargaining power. QR wasn’t interested in keeping the 350s they had on lease from LA and as a consequence will be going to DL all of which QR could have prevented.

I think people are over stating what AA did For LA in Miami. Delta Could add 3 flights to the top 10 destinations (which they already serve 3).Delta could theoretically keep a subset of their 717s to cover when the demand returns using its current gates. That’s roughly 24 planes doing 2.5 turns a day. Add in a few 321s and you have the Demand covered for the top 20 connection markets for LA/AA feed. Someone please provide data to negate.

Plus strongest position in the second highest SA market at jfk and a even race in LA the third highest market. Not to mention a few new 350s they can throw on routes to aid LA. That all in addition to whatever they can squeeze out of atl. Just because you like an airline or work for it doesn’t mean what has prevailed before will always prevail. Will DL cripple AA no but did leaving AA connection cripple LA no or they wouldn’t have left. People spent months modeling cases not just going off feelings.


Only, that is all pie in the sky. DL could do this in MIA, DL could do that in MIA. They will need their focus on shoring up their core markets not adding 717s to MIA.


So a plan that was part of the reasoning for LA to switch is a pie in the sky? Why do you think LA left AA. Do you believe you have analyzed the situation better than LA and DL network planning team?

I’m pretty sure delta already had plans to replace displaced connections. I would imagine DL plan was always multiple year. If the LA partnership is that important it wouldn’t be hard for their planners to swap priorities. Bring in the flights they were planning and hold off other loss making markets coming back.

If they don’t care then they will dump their plans but that won’t exactly leave LA or QR in a good position as they will have the bare the brunt of some expensive aircraft.


In case you have missed it: there is a global health crisis going on. Air traffic has collapsed. Delta has accepted government aid. Airlines are expected to shrink substantially.

All of the above mentioned plans happened before. They are now pie in the sky.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 6:49 am

Read the official press release by LATAM. They mention and thank Qatar a million times in the press release and highlight how important Qatar's help is and will be to recover.

Not a single mention of Delta.
 
Westerwaelder
Posts: 240
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 6:56 am

Detroit313 wrote:
Read the official press release by LATAM. They mention and thank Qatar a million times in the press release and highlight how important Qatar's help is and will be to recover.

Not a single mention of Delta.


Exactly. Latam know where help is coming from. And it's not from Atlanta (for reasons we all know).

Does CH11 mean existing shareholders are automatically wiped out though?
 
User avatar
flee
Posts: 1280
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:14 am

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 8:36 am

What was anticipated has happened - Latam Air Files Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, Stymied by Lockdowns: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -lockdowns
 
tphuang
Posts: 5210
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 11:38 am

Can we actually get to the implications of these filings rather than how DL and AA again?

Does this mean they are cutting certain subsidiaries? I'm not really sure the implications here. Even if the chapter 11 saves their US subsidiary, what can they do about their other countries' subsidiaries?
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3796
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 11:44 am

LawAndOrder wrote:
Plus the check hasn’t been written for all of the 350s. Delta could use those as bargaining power.


There is a signed purchase agreement which LA is not going to just let them out of. Those A350's are going to DL or DL will.be paying damages to LA. DL has no leverage. That said, as an investor, QR thinks LA getting rid of planes they don't need is a good thing and is not going to mess with that.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8060
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 11:50 am

Westerwaelder wrote:
Does CH11 mean existing shareholders are automatically wiped out though?


Automatically? No - but often there isn't enough value left after debt resolution (cram-downs: JP Morgan Chase, you're going to be happy getting 28 cents on the dollar, right?) coming out of Ch 11 to leave current shareholders anything.

United wiped out shareholders in Ch 11: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ual- ... 7120071207

AA did not: https://www.star-telegram.com/news/busi ... 52409.html

No offense intended to you Westerwaelder, but LATAM has circulated an infographic that outlines the U.S. Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization process and various important features.

https://www.latamreorganizacion.com/wp- ... raphic.pdf

That graphic doesn't describe how it has obtained financing to maintain operations but I haven't checked press releases.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8060
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 11:51 am

tphuang wrote:
Can we actually get to the implications of these filings rather than how DL and AA again?

Does this mean they are cutting certain subsidiaries? I'm not really sure the implications here. Even if the chapter 11 saves their US subsidiary, what can they do about their other countries' subsidiaries?


It's not just the U.S. subs that went into Ch 11.
 
onwFan
Posts: 437
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 11:55 am

tphuang wrote:
Can we actually get to the implications of these filings rather than how DL and AA again?

Does this mean they are cutting certain subsidiaries? I'm not really sure the implications here. Even if the chapter 11 saves their US subsidiary, what can they do about their other countries' subsidiaries?

I have a feeling that LATAM Argentina is a goner (for obvious reasons). LA Chile, Brazil & Peru are their core units and they will try to keep them. I don’t think LA Colombia or Ecuador are their priority either (especially since they cut all routes even to MIA and MAD from these hubs). Focus on a three-way hub system around LIM, SCL and GRU. Not even all the routes from there might stay. Also long-haul routes of XL and 4M like GYE-JFK and MIA-EZE operated with the odd 1-2 widebody in the entire fleet are probably eliminated. As significant as those routes may be, I doubt if they are worth hanging to with a crisis & bankruptcy looming.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 7

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aerace, andrej, Andy33, Argent, Baidu [Spider], Baruch, Bing [Bot], brilondon, downforsam, FluidFlow, gift4tbone, hitower3, kolnamrhein, MikeyESSA, mn2018, Numberj, overcast, OzarkD9S, PorterPiper, rlwynn, thepinkmachine, wil381 and 292 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos