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DL747400
Posts: 983
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:04 pm

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:18 pm

On a related note, DL and LATAM are expanding their codeshares, with DL adding their code to LA operated flights in a dozen new markets throughout SA. The level of LATAM / DL cooperation continues to grow and evolve despite the pandemic. Clearly, both DL and LATAM believe that the way out of bankruptcy and back to profitability is through the continued expansion of their Latin partnership:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20200811

DELTA operated by LATAM Airlines Brasil
Rio de Janeiro Galeao – Foz do Iguacu
Sao Paulo Guarulhos – Campo Grande
Sao Paulo Guarulhos – Lima
Sao Paulo Guarulhos – Londrina
Sao Paulo Guarulhos – Maceio
Sao Paulo Guarulhos – Uberlandia

DELTA operated by LATAM Airlines Colombia
Bogota – San Andres Island
Bogota – Santa Marta

DELTA operated by LATAM Airlines Ecuador
Quito – Baltra Island

DELTA operated by LATAM Airlines Peru
Lima – Brasilia
Lima – Rio de Janeiro Galeao
Lima – Porto Alegre
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 25481
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:49 pm

US bankruptcy judge rejected a proposed US$2.4 billion DIP financing plan for the carrier on the grounds that a convertible loan included as part of the package would amount to “improper” treatment of other shareholders.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-latam ... KKBN2613J7
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 747
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:43 pm

So does the rejected reorganization plan put future Delta skin in the game at risk, I wonder (?)
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9880
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:00 pm

LATAM will file another reorg plan.

I have to wonder how often under current law DIP financing has been rejected for unfair treatment, at least for firms this size? This isn't time for amateur hour.
 
n9801f
Posts: 406
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:29 am

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:24 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
LATAM will file another reorg plan.

I have to wonder how often under current law DIP financing has been rejected for unfair treatment, at least for firms this size? This isn't time for amateur hour.


A fairer question might be how often bankrupt firms tried to put a similar provision into a DIP loan.

The provision seems to short-circuit some of the matters yet to be decided by the court.

Sounds like a well considered ruling to me.
 
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vhtje
Posts: 1329
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:04 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
LATAM will file another reorg plan.

I have to wonder how often under current law DIP financing has been rejected for unfair treatment, at least for firms this size? This isn't time for amateur hour.


Why do you use the term “amateur hour”? Several key creditors raised concerns about the plan. I do not know what those concerns were, but if “several”creditors were unhappy with the proposed plan, that suggests to me the concerns must have been legitimate.

The court’s responsibility is to listen to all viewpoints from different interest parties before making judgements. It seems to me, the court did its job.

Unless you know something we do not?
 
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Polot
Posts: 12083
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:54 am

vhtje wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
LATAM will file another reorg plan.

I have to wonder how often under current law DIP financing has been rejected for unfair treatment, at least for firms this size? This isn't time for amateur hour.


Why do you use the term “amateur hour”? Several key creditors raised concerns about the plan. I do not know what those concerns were, but if “several”creditors were unhappy with the proposed plan, that suggests to me the concerns must have been legitimate.

The court’s responsibility is to listen to all viewpoints from different interest parties before making judgements. It seems to me, the court did its job.

Unless you know something we do not?

I think he was referring to the people drawing up the DIP funding/Plan with his “amateur hour” comment, not the court.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2656
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:33 pm

A DIP is not the POR and DL already wrote off it’s investment/ownership
 
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vhtje
Posts: 1329
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:52 am

Polot wrote:
vhtje wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
LATAM will file another reorg plan.

I have to wonder how often under current law DIP financing has been rejected for unfair treatment, at least for firms this size? This isn't time for amateur hour.


Why do you use the term “amateur hour”? Several key creditors raised concerns about the plan. I do not know what those concerns were, but if “several”creditors were unhappy with the proposed plan, that suggests to me the concerns must have been legitimate.

The court’s responsibility is to listen to all viewpoints from different interest parties before making judgements. It seems to me, the court did its job.

Unless you know something we do not?

I think he was referring to the people drawing up the DIP funding/Plan with his “amateur hour” comment, not the court.


Duh. Of course he was. How very stupid of me. Thank you for pointing out my error. Apologies to MIflyer12.
 
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mercure1
Posts: 5214
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:12 pm

LATAM will seek to reject 23 additional aircraft leases.

Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EiCfpvEWsAY ... name=small
 
danipawa
Posts: 565
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:03 am

well...36 first, now this
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9880
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:40 pm

The court approved the refiled reorg plan.

SANTIAGO (Reuters) - LATAM Airlines LTM.SN on Friday said it had obtained approval on its second try of a crucial $2.45 billion bankruptcy loan to take the airline out of Chapter 11 restructuring, after having its first package rejected by a judge last week.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-lata ... 692YG?il=0
 
TropicalSky
Posts: 579
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:22 pm

behind wall...but article says they got approved
https://www.flightglobal.com/strategy/n ... 51.article
 
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lightsaber
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Posts: 22686
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:21 pm

danipawa wrote:
well...36 first, now this

I'm being lazy and summing up all LATAM aircraft off Wikipedia. 361 today. Shrinking by 59 is minor. I could understand twice that.

What I don't understand us the debtor in possession dance.

Lightsaber
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2656
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:46 pm

lightsaber wrote:
danipawa wrote:
well...36 first, now this

I'm being lazy and summing up all LATAM aircraft off Wikipedia. 361 today. Shrinking by 59 is minor. I could understand twice that.

What I don't understand us the debtor in possession dance.

Lightsaber

More accurate fleet

https://www.airfleets.net/recherche/?ke ... sponly=opp
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:03 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
danipawa wrote:
well...36 first, now this

I'm being lazy and summing up all LATAM aircraft off Wikipedia. 361 today. Shrinking by 59 is minor. I could understand twice that.

What I don't understand us the debtor in possession dance.

Lightsaber

More accurate fleet

https://www.airfleets.net/recherche/?ke ... sponly=opp

I like airfleets. Do realize they have a bit of a delay, I'll agree, better than Wikipedia. But overall, the cuts are not more than I expected.

Lightsaber
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:41 pm

lightsaber wrote:
danipawa wrote:
well...36 first, now this

I'm being lazy and summing up all LATAM aircraft off Wikipedia. 361 today. Shrinking by 59 is minor. I could understand twice that.

What I don't understand us the debtor in possession dance.

Lightsaber


You don't understand what DIP is, or, like me, you were surprised that LATAM's lawyers and financiers first led them down a path that wouldn't be approved?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:07 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
danipawa wrote:
well...36 first, now this

I'm being lazy and summing up all LATAM aircraft off Wikipedia. 361 today. Shrinking by 59 is minor. I could understand twice that.

What I don't understand us the debtor in possession dance.

Lightsaber


You don't understand what DIP is, or, like me, you were surprised that LATAM's lawyers and financiers first led them down a path that wouldn't be approved?

The path. I get DIP. It us a serious process that normally follows a boring and predictable pattern. Thus isn't a time to play games. If DIP is poorly setup, that can end a company; usually DIP us setup without controversy, secured by certain assets that didn't have a prior lien with no favorites.

Doing anything else means returning to the starting line with a couple months worth if losses.

My advice to LATAM: The time to try and be a brilliant manager is not when you file bankruptcy.

Lightsaber
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9880
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:20 pm

Maybe some HBS or Wharton professor could identify some fraction of Ch 11 reorg plans that have been delayed due to discriminatory DIP arrangements. (I don't have the idea it's common to very large firms.)

Like I said, it was predictable they would refile and eventually get approved. Cleary Gottlieb is their counsel - not their first time at the rodeo.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2656
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:22 pm

TropicalSky wrote:
behind wall...but article says they got approved
https://www.flightglobal.com/strategy/n ... 51.article

A new DIP plan hasn’t been approved. They filed a motion for a new plan to be approved and the hearing isn’t till 10/5/2020

https://t.co/Uzv4EtcyCD?amp=1
 
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mercure1
Posts: 5214
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:33 pm

LATAM is considering transferring its Brazil passenger operations to its ASBA Cargo subsidiary AOC to reduce payroll costs.

https://www.aeroflap.com.br/absa-cargo- ... am-brasil/

In meeting with unions, LATAM said it needed 20 percent reduction in payroll. It also seeks to modify the model for seniority and equipment pay and compensation for food and meal vouchers in addition to salary allowances.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:17 am

Talk continuing.
Pilots union seeking guarantee LATAM won't set up a lower cost ulterior airline in Brazil and also ensure flights from Brazil staffed by Brazilian crews. Apparently LATAM uses Chilean crews on some Brazil routes like GRU-JFK and GRU-MAD currently.

https://airlinegeeks.com/2020/10/26/neg ... s-advance/
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:31 pm

Cueto family to invest $250mil additional in LATAM and seek to restructure the airline towards a "low-cost model."

https://www.reportur.com/aerolineas/202 ... -low-cost/
 
onwFan
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:17 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Cueto family to invest $250mil additional in LATAM and seek to restructure the airline towards a "low-cost model."

https://www.reportur.com/aerolineas/202 ... -low-cost/

I guess the primary factor is that Sky, Viva & JetSmart are setting up new subsidiaries in various S. Am nations just like that. But how will transitioning to an LCC model help them compete internationally with network carriers to North America & Europe?

For starters, it will be inconsistent in a JV with Delta, which is trying to differentiate itself as a premium airline?. Their domestic product & International Economy product is essentially LCC-like; so not sure what will be new - getting rid of/reducing business class on more planes?
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4294
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:03 am

onwFan wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Cueto family to invest $250mil additional in LATAM and seek to restructure the airline towards a "low-cost model."

https://www.reportur.com/aerolineas/202 ... -low-cost/

I guess the primary factor is that Sky, Viva & JetSmart are setting up new subsidiaries in various S. Am nations just like that. But how will transitioning to an LCC model help them compete internationally with network carriers to North America & Europe?

For starters, it will be inconsistent in a JV with Delta, which is trying to differentiate itself as a premium airline?. Their domestic product & International Economy product is essentially LCC-like; so not sure what will be new - getting rid of/reducing business class on more planes?


I agree. LATAM is already essentially an LCC on domestic/regional routes so what else is there to cut? Outsource all of their ground handling? Reduce their sales staff? I'm quite curious.
 
tphuang
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:10 am

usflyer msp wrote:
onwFan wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Cueto family to invest $250mil additional in LATAM and seek to restructure the airline towards a "low-cost model."

https://www.reportur.com/aerolineas/202 ... -low-cost/

I guess the primary factor is that Sky, Viva & JetSmart are setting up new subsidiaries in various S. Am nations just like that. But how will transitioning to an LCC model help them compete internationally with network carriers to North America & Europe?

For starters, it will be inconsistent in a JV with Delta, which is trying to differentiate itself as a premium airline?. Their domestic product & International Economy product is essentially LCC-like; so not sure what will be new - getting rid of/reducing business class on more planes?


I agree. LATAM is already essentially an LCC on domestic/regional routes so what else is there to cut? Outsource all of their ground handling? Reduce their sales staff? I'm quite curious.

If they want to go lcc route, time to cut the widebody stuff and business class and go to single fleet type.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:44 am

The latest annual report mentions a fleet of 80 long-haul planes. There's plenty of demand for intercon widebodies. It doesn't need to remake itself into Frontier.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:57 pm

LATAM has requested to postpone the deadline again to present its restructuring plan under Chapter 11. New deadline will be June 30, 2021.
 
aviator2000
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:53 pm

Don't know if mentioned before, but LATAM has removed of its website the flights from Sao Paulo and Lima to Barcelona, the first of which had been operating for almost a decade.
 
onwFan
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:12 pm

aviator2000 wrote:
Don't know if mentioned before, but LATAM has removed of its website the flights from Sao Paulo and Lima to Barcelona, the first of which had been operating for almost a decade.

And GRU-MXP is gone too?!! Color me surprised if AMS pops up all of a sudden :-)

Edit: And possibly GRU-JNB & TLV too?
 
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MatheusLPV
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:24 am

I just noticed the MXP re-routed through AMS via LHR . GRU-LHR-AMS-MXP seems insane but KL must be happy .
Maybe LA is trying to take a more conservative approach to their long haul network during W20 that's why this "mess"but I don't see any long haul route being permanently axed , on the other hand routes like BCN ,MXP and JNB will be the last one to recover which means they are not priority for operation right now .
 
dcajet
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:54 am

aviator2000 wrote:
Don't know if mentioned before, but LATAM has removed of its website the flights from Sao Paulo and Lima to Barcelona, the first of which had been operating for almost a decade.


Not sure about BCN, but GRU-LIM-GRU is currently operating as LA8104/5, A320, 5x w.
 
aviator2000
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:20 am

dcajet wrote:
aviator2000 wrote:
Don't know if mentioned before, but LATAM has removed of its website the flights from Sao Paulo and Lima to Barcelona, the first of which had been operating for almost a decade.


Not sure about BCN, but GRU-LIM-GRU is currently operating as LA8104/5, A320, 5x w.

Sure, I meant GRU-BCN and LIM-BCN which aren't on sale anymore.
 
dcajet
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:34 am

aviator2000 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
aviator2000 wrote:
Don't know if mentioned before, but LATAM has removed of its website the flights from Sao Paulo and Lima to Barcelona, the first of which had been operating for almost a decade.


Not sure about BCN, but GRU-LIM-GRU is currently operating as LA8104/5, A320, 5x w.

Sure, I meant GRU-BCN and LIM-BCN which aren't on sale anymore.


My bad then!
 
dcajet
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:20 pm

onwFan wrote:
aviator2000 wrote:
Don't know if mentioned before, but LATAM has removed of its website the flights from Sao Paulo and Lima to Barcelona, the first of which had been operating for almost a decade.

And GRU-MXP is gone too?!! Color me surprised if AMS pops up all of a sudden :-)

Edit: And possibly GRU-JNB & TLV too?


From a source at LATAM: all 5 routes are suspended indefinitely and subject to the outcome of the bankruptcy proceedings.
 
onwFan
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:09 pm

dcajet wrote:
onwFan wrote:
aviator2000 wrote:
Don't know if mentioned before, but LATAM has removed of its website the flights from Sao Paulo and Lima to Barcelona, the first of which had been operating for almost a decade.

And GRU-MXP is gone too?!! Color me surprised if AMS pops up all of a sudden :-)

Edit: And possibly GRU-JNB & TLV too?


From a source at LATAM: all 5 routes are suspended indefinitely and subject to the outcome of the bankruptcy proceedings.

Ouch. Not at all surprised about GRU-TLV. BCN-GRU/LIM were also recent adds boosted by VY codeshares, but with the IAG JV out of the picture, IB will rather prioritize its own BCN-EZE/SCL.

But iirc GRU-MXP was a long-standing route from TAM served daily for several years, and GRU-JNB was a monopoly between South America & South Africa.
 
dcajet
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:17 pm

onwFan wrote:
dcajet wrote:
onwFan wrote:
And GRU-MXP is gone too?!! Color me surprised if AMS pops up all of a sudden :-)

Edit: And possibly GRU-JNB & TLV too?


From a source at LATAM: all 5 routes are suspended indefinitely and subject to the outcome of the bankruptcy proceedings.

Ouch. Not at all surprised about GRU-TLV. BCN-GRU/LIM were also recent adds boosted by VY codeshares, but with the IAG JV out of the picture, IB will rather prioritize its own BCN-EZE/SCL.

But iirc GRU-MXP was a long-standing route from TAM served daily for several years, and GRU-JNB was a monopoly between South America & South Africa.


I'm sure some of them like MXP and JNB will return at some point in the not so distant future. JNB is a no-brainer given the monopoly situation following SAA dropping the route last year. There is a sizable market to South Africa from GRU and, to a lesser extent, from EZE. The only way left to reach South Africa now from both airports is via ADD with ET,
 
dcajet
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:48 pm

Pending confirmation, but it appears the nonstop SCL-FRA-SCL rotation (a new flight planned for 2020 and which never started due to COVID) falls under the same category of no dates for its beginning and subject to the outcome of bankruptcy proceedings.
 
dcajet
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:32 pm

dcajet wrote:
Pending confirmation, but it appears the nonstop SCL-FRA-SCL rotation (a new flight planned for 2020 and which never started due to COVID) falls under the same category of no dates for its beginning and subject to the outcome of bankruptcy proceedings.


Confirmed, same fate as the other flights.
 
onwFan
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:49 pm

Looks like they are seriously transforming into a LCC...
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:18 pm

The bankruptcy court approved the request till June 30, 2021 for LATAM to submit its plan of reorganization.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:08 am

17 LATAM aircraft to be sold on “as-is, where-is” basis via public auction to be held on April 14, 2021.

2 - A350-900
4 - 787-9
11 - A321

https://newsroom.aviator.aero/skyworks- ... c-auction/
 
onwFan
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:33 am

LAXintl wrote:
17 LATAM aircraft to be sold on “as-is, where-is” basis via public auction to be held on April 14, 2021.

2 - A350-900
4 - 787-9
11 - A321

https://newsroom.aviator.aero/skyworks- ... c-auction/

I wonder why they don’t just retire all the A350s instead and harmonize the fleet across all the subsidiaries around Boeing wide-bodies.
 
Josh76040
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:33 am

How much of our US taxpayer dollars is Delta Air Lines contributing to this foreign dumpster fire? If Delta has enough money to float loans to VS, they don’t need PSP monies. Given what they are doing with VS, I cannot imagine that they aren’t giving something to LATAM to aid in their emergence from bankruptcy.

PSP monies free up funds that would otherwise go to paying employees. This doesn’t mean that Delta gets to then use up their own freed-up funds to invest in foreign businesses.
 
RvA
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:29 am

Josh76040 wrote:
How much of our US taxpayer dollars is Delta Air Lines contributing to this foreign dumpster fire? If Delta has enough money to float loans to VS, they don’t need PSP monies. Given what they are doing with VS, I cannot imagine that they aren’t giving something to LATAM to aid in their emergence from bankruptcy.

PSP monies free up funds that would otherwise go to paying employees. This doesn’t mean that Delta gets to then use up their own freed-up funds to invest in foreign businesses.


You’re assuming this or is there something we can read about this somewhere? Was money actually given to VS?

Were you OK with the money coming in to DL from partners before this crisis? If they have to make an investment now to ensure that happens again in the future, would you still rather they didn’t invest now to ensure this happens again? (Assuming money actually was paid out to VS and LA)
 
Josh76040
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:39 am

RvA wrote:
Josh76040 wrote:
How much of our US taxpayer dollars is Delta Air Lines contributing to this foreign dumpster fire? If Delta has enough money to float loans to VS, they don’t need PSP monies. Given what they are doing with VS, I cannot imagine that they aren’t giving something to LATAM to aid in their emergence from bankruptcy.

PSP monies free up funds that would otherwise go to paying employees. This doesn’t mean that Delta gets to then use up their own freed-up funds to invest in foreign businesses.


You’re assuming this or is there something we can read about this somewhere? Was money actually given to VS?

Were you OK with the money coming in to DL from partners before this crisis? If they have to make an investment now to ensure that happens again in the future, would you still rather they didn’t invest now to ensure this happens again? (Assuming money actually was paid out to VS and LA)



I don’t want them investing in foreign enterprises because they’ve gotten a free ride from the US taxpayer on payroll. If their foreign investments go bust, so be it.
 
777Mech
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Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:54 pm

Josh76040 wrote:
RvA wrote:
Josh76040 wrote:
How much of our US taxpayer dollars is Delta Air Lines contributing to this foreign dumpster fire? If Delta has enough money to float loans to VS, they don’t need PSP monies. Given what they are doing with VS, I cannot imagine that they aren’t giving something to LATAM to aid in their emergence from bankruptcy.

PSP monies free up funds that would otherwise go to paying employees. This doesn’t mean that Delta gets to then use up their own freed-up funds to invest in foreign businesses.


You’re assuming this or is there something we can read about this somewhere? Was money actually given to VS?

Were you OK with the money coming in to DL from partners before this crisis? If they have to make an investment now to ensure that happens again in the future, would you still rather they didn’t invest now to ensure this happens again? (Assuming money actually was paid out to VS and LA)



I don’t want them investing in foreign enterprises because they’ve gotten a free ride from the US taxpayer on payroll. If their foreign investments go bust, so be it.


Again, are you assuming they gave money to VS? Or what's the deal? Seems like you just have an axe to grind.
 
Josh76040
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 11:02 am

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:20 pm

777Mech wrote:
Josh76040 wrote:
RvA wrote:

You’re assuming this or is there something we can read about this somewhere? Was money actually given to VS?

Were you OK with the money coming in to DL from partners before this crisis? If they have to make an investment now to ensure that happens again in the future, would you still rather they didn’t invest now to ensure this happens again? (Assuming money actually was paid out to VS and LA)



I don’t want them investing in foreign enterprises because they’ve gotten a free ride from the US taxpayer on payroll. If their foreign investments go bust, so be it.


Again, are you assuming they gave money to VS? Or what's the deal? Seems like you just have an axe to grind.


I’m a taxpayer. It’s my right to question. If there is the slightest chance of wrongdoing, we have a right to know. I don’t care if the loss of VS cripples Delta. If they have enough money to loan ailing foreign partners, it has money to pay its employees without the help of the taxpayer.
 
n9801f
Posts: 406
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:29 am

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:52 pm

777Mech wrote:
You’re assuming this or is there something we can read about this somewhere? Was money actually given to VS?


Multiple outlets recently reported that Delta was involved in a 160M GBP ($223M USD) transaction to benefit Virgin.

The first article reporting the key detail of Delta's involvement was on BBC.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56392570

There's a separate thread on Airliners discussing this here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1458747

There's debate over the fine point of whether Delta's assistance was cash or a loan forbearance. Several argue that even if it's the latter, the bottom line would be that Delta has its hand out in Washington for taxpayer money at the same time that it's declining other sources of funds.

The absence of transparency, in part due to Virgin's status as a private company, is not reassuring.
 
777Mech
Posts: 1246
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Updated: LATAM files for Bankruptcy

Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:10 pm

n9801f wrote:
777Mech wrote:
You’re assuming this or is there something we can read about this somewhere? Was money actually given to VS?


Multiple outlets recently reported that Delta was involved in a 160M GBP ($223M USD) transaction to benefit Virgin.

The first article reporting the key detail of Delta's involvement was on BBC.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56392570

There's a separate thread on Airliners discussing this here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1458747

There's debate over the fine point of whether Delta's assistance was cash or a loan forbearance. Several argue that even if it's the latter, the bottom line would be that Delta has its hand out in Washington for taxpayer money at the same time that it's declining other sources of funds.

The absence of transparency, in part due to Virgin's status as a private company, is not reassuring.


If there was any of the 2 mentioned, wouldn't DL have to disclose any cash injections or forbearance in their filings anyways?
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