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xdlx
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AA Furlough > Flowback?

Tue May 26, 2020 3:26 pm

Given that all airlines will have adjust to the new realities... Is there a flowback option for AA/Pilots affected by a potential furlough, to return to any of the EAGLE affiliates? Say flowthru occurred within last 36mo, what options exist for these folks?
 
SWALUV
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:43 pm

Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Tue May 26, 2020 3:29 pm

To my knowledge, flowback is not an option for those who flowed from a WO carrier.
 
ericm2031
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Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Tue May 26, 2020 3:35 pm

I don't think their wholly-owned regionals will need pilots either. If mainline shrinks, the regional fleet has to come down with it to remain within scope...they were already maxed out with this pre-COVID
 
alasizon
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Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Tue May 26, 2020 3:40 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
I don't think their wholly-owned regionals will need pilots either. If mainline shrinks, the regional fleet has to come down with it to remain within scope...they were already maxed out with this pre-COVID


Since COVID is considered an Act of God/Force Majeure event, they have 15 months to bring themselves into compliance, same rules as the MAX grounding.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Tue May 26, 2020 3:48 pm

Absolutely flowback

Happened in the mid 2000s

Flowbacks cant cause furloughs at regionals but they take any open Captain slot
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Tue May 26, 2020 3:49 pm

and by the way this wasn’t written anywhere.

This was decided by an arbitrator… If something could flow through...it can flow back
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Tue May 26, 2020 8:53 pm

Flowback is an important topic.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3373
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Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Tue May 26, 2020 8:54 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Absolutely flowback

Happened in the mid 2000s

Flowbacks cant cause furloughs at regionals but they take any open Captain slot


Flowback no longer is in the contract at AA or any of the 3 AA WOs. So needless to say, there won’t be flowback.
From my cold, dead hands
 
alasizon
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Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Tue May 26, 2020 9:05 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Absolutely flowback

Happened in the mid 2000s

Flowbacks cant cause furloughs at regionals but they take any open Captain slot


Flowback no longer is in the contract at AA or any of the 3 AA WOs. So needless to say, there won’t be flowback.


Not to mention a flowback right now would just burn even more cash.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
bigb
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Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Tue May 26, 2020 9:11 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Absolutely flowback

Happened in the mid 2000s

Flowbacks cant cause furloughs at regionals but they take any open Captain slot


Negative, flow backs aren’t a thing anymore and is no longer in the contracts of WOs. The only flow back provision is if a pilot fails training at mainline. Delta has a flow back in their contract to Compass. Oof.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Tue May 26, 2020 9:55 pm

alasizon wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
I don't think their wholly-owned regionals will need pilots either. If mainline shrinks, the regional fleet has to come down with it to remain within scope...they were already maxed out with this pre-COVID


Since COVID is considered an Act of God/Force Majeure event, they have 15 months to bring themselves into compliance, same rules as the MAX grounding.


Has AA declared that yet? Because as soon as they do the contract basically means nothing.....that’s like a nuke to the pilot group.
 
bigb
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Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Tue May 26, 2020 10:10 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
alasizon wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
I don't think their wholly-owned regionals will need pilots either. If mainline shrinks, the regional fleet has to come down with it to remain within scope...they were already maxed out with this pre-COVID


Since COVID is considered an Act of God/Force Majeure event, they have 15 months to bring themselves into compliance, same rules as the MAX grounding.


Has AA declared that yet? Because as soon as they do the contract basically means nothing.....that’s like a nuke to the pilot group.


Labor contracts don’t just go out the window while CH 11 is filed thanks to Frank Lorenzo.
 
AABusDrvr
Posts: 148
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Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Tue May 26, 2020 10:15 pm

bigb wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Absolutely flowback

Happened in the mid 2000s

Flowbacks cant cause furloughs at regionals but they take any open Captain slot


Negative, flow backs aren’t a thing anymore and is no longer in the contracts of WOs. The only flow back provision is if a pilot fails training at mainline. Delta has a flow back in their contract to Compass. Oof.


I believe thats only for one of the WO's, PDT or PSA. And honestly, I cant believe they got HR to sign off on it. Letting a pilot come back who couldn't pass training at mainline seems to open up a whole liability can of worms.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Tue May 26, 2020 10:54 pm

bigb wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Absolutely flowback

Happened in the mid 2000s

Flowbacks cant cause furloughs at regionals but they take any open Captain slot


Negative, flow backs aren’t a thing anymore and is no longer in the contracts of WOs. The only flow back provision is if a pilot fails training at mainline. Delta has a flow back in their contract to Compass. Oof.


Had, since CPZ is gone. Associated with it, so goes 35 large RJ's, until they get a new flow back provision, or otherwise negotiate for the planes.
From my cold, dead hands
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Tue May 26, 2020 10:55 pm

bigb wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
alasizon wrote:

Since COVID is considered an Act of God/Force Majeure event, they have 15 months to bring themselves into compliance, same rules as the MAX grounding.


Has AA declared that yet? Because as soon as they do the contract basically means nothing.....that’s like a nuke to the pilot group.


Labor contracts don’t just go out the window while CH 11 is filed thanks to Frank Lorenzo.


I didn’t say CH 11 I’m talking about act of god and force majeure.
 
bigb
Posts: 1125
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Tue May 26, 2020 11:34 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
bigb wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Absolutely flowback

Happened in the mid 2000s

Flowbacks cant cause furloughs at regionals but they take any open Captain slot


Negative, flow backs aren’t a thing anymore and is no longer in the contracts of WOs. The only flow back provision is if a pilot fails training at mainline. Delta has a flow back in their contract to Compass. Oof.


Had, since CPZ is gone. Associated with it, so goes 35 large RJ's, until they get a new flow back provision, or otherwise negotiate for the planes.


Which is why I said oof lol
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Wed May 27, 2020 1:46 am

It was never in the contract guys.
 
bigb
Posts: 1125
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Wed May 27, 2020 1:49 am

[*]
jfklganyc wrote:
It was never in the contract guys.


It was a contract provision at one time at American Eagle/Envoy. That provision has not expired and no longer I. The CBA.
 
Woodreau
Posts: 1919
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Wed May 27, 2020 1:59 am

jfklganyc wrote:
It was never in the contract guys.


The flowback provision was in Letter 3 of the ALPA Eagle contract / Supp W of the APA contract. Both of those contracts have been replaced by new contracts since 2013 which do not have the option of flowback.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
CanesFan
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:49 pm

Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Wed May 27, 2020 2:36 am

Woodreau wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
It was never in the contract guys.


The flowback provision was in Letter 3 of the ALPA Eagle contract / Supp W of the APA contract. Both of those contracts have been replaced by new contracts since 2013 which do not have the option of flowback.


^^^^This!
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Wed May 27, 2020 3:28 am

I guess something you could debate is whether there /should/ be flowback.

I’d say no, especially with a furlough this big (or rather, with a drastic cut in flying this big). You’d probably drain everyone flying at the regionals now with everyone at the majors downgrading. I’d say there would be a lot of retraining involved getting them back on types they’re rusty on or new in general. They’ll get their job at the major back soon enough, hopefully. IMO there’s a willful choice taken to risk being at the bottom and ending up worst off when you upgrade than staying at the regionals. Everyone will do it. Unless someone’s that one guy who’s been at the regional for 20+ years flying... e175s or something.
 
AABusDrvr
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:48 am

Re: AA Furlough > Flowback?

Thu May 28, 2020 4:44 pm

From a friend of mine at AA who mentors new hire pilots. The pilots in the March 17th new hire class who were sent home before starting training are being told they will start training after the awards from the current vacancy/displacement bid are finalized next month.

I can't believe they would put them through training if they were planning to furlough them in October, but stranger things have happened.

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