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Revelation
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Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:56 pm

argentinevol98 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Anyone care to guess what "consortium" proposed buying the 748 program from Boeing?

It wasn't Airbus, for sure. I have no idea why they would want it but even if they did I bet they wouldn't even bother asking Boeing about it. No way in hell that would happen. Though, it is kind of fun to think about the absolute sh*t-storm that would be an A.Net thread on that topic...

In all seriousness, I suspect that someone like the Chinese could have made an offer. Sure, it is an old A/C but still far more advanced than anything they've ever produced. I think, though, that even if Boeing wanted to do that the government wouldn't be too keen on it. That said, more likely, imo, the bid may have come from aerospace companies that don't currently produce any actual aircraft but are maybe interested in getting into the game somehow. It could be some of the suppliers for the 748 itself trying to save the program to keep work flowing.

I think if a Chinese firm made such an offer in the current climate, someone in the media would have picked up on the story, no?

My first guess was a consortium of the customers, since we had read that five customers signed a letter to Boeing asking them to keep the line open.

It doesn't make a lot of sense for them to want to get into the airplane business, but it doesn't make sense for anyone to want to buy out the 747 program from Boeing, so it makes as much sense as anyone else getting involved.

Sooner or later a subscriber will fill us in.
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Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:28 pm

The issue is that even the 777-8XF is only a tradeoff and not an 100% adequate successor of the 747(-8F). You will have a big gap between the 777XF and the Antonovs. It's a dilemma.

Yes, most customers would live without the nose-gear capability. But not all. If big 747 customers like Atlas, Kalitta, Cargolux, Cathay could passed on the flexibility of the 747, they would have indicated to go on with the 777F in the past/present or 777-8XF in the future. They did not so far!

Second (and more important for me), the Russian freighters will also need a replacement.

In a perfect world and a healthy Boeing company there is a developement of a new 747F under way. New (folded) wings, new LEAP/GTF/Ultrafan engines, new fuselage with increased diameter with end-to-end height of the main cargo deck, better shape of the cargo hold, further improvement of the aerodynamics. So the aircraft is capable to carry the big engines without being dependent on the Antonovs any longer.
 
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Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:24 pm

Revelation wrote:
Anyone care to guess what "consortium" proposed buying the 748 program from Boeing?


Could be the HDC Group, which is a Korean chaebol formerly part of the Hyundai Group before being spun off. They own Asiana Airlines and want to renew that company's freighter group and while the official line is doing so with 777 Freighters, I could see them being interested in taking over the 747-8 program to build new frames for Asiana and then hopefully sell more frames to other customers. Hyundai is not a supplier to the 747-8, but Korean Air Aerospace Division is a very minor supplier.
 
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Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:03 pm

The problem is the Chinese don't always show up at the plant gate. There are numerous US industrial dismantlers who come in and buy the whole lot. Most recent example is the Philadelphia Refinery that blew up last year (for I think $200 million). The industrial dismantler then sells usable equipment to the highest bidder which might be a holding company based overseas. Recall the Iranian purchases of F-14 parts. Even if the US Govt has rules in place on exports, they are probably hard to implement if someone is motivated to get their hands on a part or machine tool. With Boeing probably looking for any cash they can get, they might sell something that shouldn't be sold. Perhaps someone from Boeing on here can comment.

And why would the Chinese want this equipment? Their main long range strike aircraft is a version of the TU-16 Badger which is almost as old as the B-52. And hardly as capable.
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:08 pm

    Revelation wrote:
    I think if a Chinese firm made such an offer in the current climate, someone in the media would have picked up on the story, no?


    Good point. Hadn't thought of that. You're probably right on that. Even if the approach was fairly strictly confidential in nature something like that would, I imagine, be near impossible to keep from leaking. Too big of a potential news story.

    Revelation wrote:
    My first guess was a consortium of the customers, since we had read that five customers signed a letter to Boeing asking them to keep the line open.

    It doesn't make a lot of sense for them to want to get into the airplane business, but it doesn't make sense for anyone to want to buy out the 747 program from Boeing, so it makes as much sense as anyone else getting involved.


    That's a good thought. Would make about as much sense as any other guess really. I'm fairly sure there's no precedent for ex-customers to take over an aircraft line but I could be mistaken about that. Not that I think precedent really matters here, btw.

    Stitch wrote:
    Could be the HDC Group, which is a Korean chaebol formerly part of the Hyundai Group before being spun off. They own Asiana Airlines and want to renew that company's freighter group and while the official line is doing so with 777 Freighters, I could see them being interested in taking over the 747-8 program to build new frames for Asiana and then hopefully sell more frames to other customers. Hyundai is not a supplier to the 747-8, but Korean Air Aerospace Division is a very minor supplier.


    Another good thought. It would make sense that an industrial giant that is already involved in the aerospace business and in particular the air freight business could be interested in the program. They would probably have the might to take on a task of the 748s size, something few companies probably do, and have certain incentives to want to do so.
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:09 pm

    Concerning storage of tooling. I have a source that indicates that the key Triumph tooling was stored in case there was a surge in demand. Said source recently indicated to me that this was short term storage only. It's been reported to me that the planned storage of the Triumph tooling was for 2 years, option to extend to see if the line would wind down or if there would be a suitably large demand appear to make it worth re-setting up.

    Thus it appears that Boeing figured that by the time they produced the last aircraft then on order that they would know if the line was totally going away - or would be extended. That sounds like a reasonable position for Boeing to have taken last year; and not that costly either.

    At this point I believe that 747-8 line is going away. While not technically dead yet... I don't see any realistic chance for large enough orders to extend the line past assembly of existing parts produced by Triumph.

    As for the future: I see the 778FX as the future. Boeing is better off investing in some mechansim to allow either a swing tail or a drop ramp door to at least level to allow end loading of long items. That would totally cinch the 778FX as the replacement for the 748F.

    Have a great day,
     
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:36 pm

    Ronaldo747 wrote:
    The issue is that even the 777-8XF is only a tradeoff and not an 100% adequate successor of the 747(-8F). You will have a big gap between the 777XF and the Antonovs. It's a dilemma.

    Yes, most customers would live without the nose-gear capability. But not all. If big 747 customers like Atlas, Kalitta, Cargolux, Cathay could passed on the flexibility of the 747, they would have indicated to go on with the 777F in the past/present or 777-8XF in the future. They did not so far!

    There is going to be a transition period where we will still have 747 cargo planes available that could easily last 20 years and IMO not too hard to project longer than that. 748 shares its engine ecosystem with 787 and that plane will have extraordinary long life due to its mostly CFRP construction. CF6 for 744s are still being built new for 767 tanker and freighter. If there is a need for its unique capabilities the market should be able to supply that need for decades to come.

    During the transition period, people who need unique capabilities of 747 will have to deal with whatever price increases happen due to its relative rarity or redesign their payloads to fit into 777F.

    Ronaldo747 wrote:
    Second (and more important for me), the Russian freighters will also need a replacement.

    In a perfect world and a healthy Boeing company there is a developement of a new 747F under way. New (folded) wings, new LEAP/GTF/Ultrafan engines, new fuselage with increased diameter with end-to-end height of the main cargo deck, better shape of the cargo hold, further improvement of the aerodynamics. So the aircraft is capable to carry the big engines without being dependent on the Antonovs any longer.

    The reason the Russian/Ukrainian large lifters are kept running is because no one will pay to develop such a replacement aircraft.
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:53 pm

    ltbewr wrote:
    Phosphorus wrote:
    ltbewr wrote:
    The 747 line has been kept alive in part to keep on the good side of the US Government for military contracts. The last 747's will be the VC-25's for Presidential use that mandate a 4 engine aircraft. I am quite sure the 747 line, something I saw in 2004 and very slow then, only freighters for non-US airlines, could be put to more productive use for 787's, 777's and military 767's once the VC-25's are done.

    Frames of two future VC-25B's are the property of USAF for some time now (both Transaero's NTUs).
    E-4B replacement is being discussed upon, but that's a separate story, and it's speculation only, at this point.

    For an E-4B replacement, perhaps convert one of the VC-25's when they end service upon delivery of the new ones or find a recent build 747-8 some airline cancelled delivery on or has discontinued from their fleet. It won't be cheap but it might be the best alternative.

    The Air Force wants four engines for the Air Force One planes; I don’t know that they have the same requirement for the E-4Bs. 777s would probably do just fine, or they could keep flying the existing ones. Look how long B-52s have been flying, and there are no plans to replace them. The E4Bs do not have the high profile or prestige of AF1, which is in my mind the biggest reason that they are being replaced.
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:58 pm

    scbriml wrote:

    For every person that claims the 757 tooling was destroyed, another claims it hasn't been. To the best of my recollection, neither side of the argument has ever offered any supporting evidence,


    Most of the jigs people are actually referring to —tooling is a far more generic term that has almost no meaning in this parlance— you can see for yourself anytime you want. Not really sure where the debate is meant to be...

    I am actually somewhat surprised there has not been a thread about this by now.



    scbriml wrote:
    all we have is hearsay (though to some it's heresy!).


    One does not simply dispute the church of a.net!


    eamondzhang wrote:

    One thing we know though is the former plant for 757 is being used to produce 737 these days - if the tools are not easily relocatable they might as well have been destroyed

    Michael


    And so it will be with the 748. The line space will be much better purposed for the 778/9, 787s & 76Fs
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:07 pm

    Revelation wrote:
    Ronaldo747 wrote:
    The issue is that even the 777-8XF is only a tradeoff and not an 100% adequate successor of the 747(-8F). You will have a big gap between the 777XF and the Antonovs. It's a dilemma.

    Yes, most customers would live without the nose-gear capability. But not all. If big 747 customers like Atlas, Kalitta, Cargolux, Cathay could passed on the flexibility of the 747, they would have indicated to go on with the 777F in the past/present or 777-8XF in the future. They did not so far!

    There is going to be a transition period where we will still have 747 cargo planes available that could easily last 20 years and IMO not too hard to project longer than that. 748 shares its engine ecosystem with 787 and that plane will have extraordinary long life due to its mostly CFRP construction. CF6 for 744s are still being built new for 767 tanker and freighter. If there is a need for its unique capabilities the market should be able to supply that need for decades to come.

    During the transition period, people who need unique capabilities of 747 will have to deal with whatever price increases happen due to its relative rarity or redesign their payloads to fit into 777F.

    Ronaldo747 wrote:
    Second (and more important for me), the Russian freighters will also need a replacement.

    In a perfect world and a healthy Boeing company there is a developement of a new 747F under way. New (folded) wings, new LEAP/GTF/Ultrafan engines, new fuselage with increased diameter with end-to-end height of the main cargo deck, better shape of the cargo hold, further improvement of the aerodynamics. So the aircraft is capable to carry the big engines without being dependent on the Antonovs any longer.

    The reason the Russian/Ukrainian large lifters are kept running is because no one will pay to develop such a replacement aircraft.

    You have the right thought,s. However, Pratt's PW4062 are on the KC-46:
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/pratt-wh ... 02106.html

    But the 748 engines are going to be supported forever. The CF6s are on the C-5 Galaxy, so they will continue to be supported for decades

    The demand for the Antinovs is too low for a new build.

    In my opinion, the 777F killed off the A330F and 747F. The 777xF means no chance of a rebirth. If Boring doesn't do a 777xF, then Airbus will take the market with an A35K based freighter. Either way, no room for another 747F.

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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:48 am

    Stitch wrote:
    Revelation wrote:
    Anyone care to guess what "consortium" proposed buying the 748 program from Boeing?


    Could be the HDC Group, which is a Korean chaebol formerly part of the Hyundai Group before being spun off. They own Asiana Airlines and want to renew that company's freighter group and while the official line is doing so with 777 Freighters, I could see them being interested in taking over the 747-8 program to build new frames for Asiana and then hopefully sell more frames to other customers. Hyundai is not a supplier to the 747-8, but Korean Air Aerospace Division is a very minor supplier.


    Back to the question - Why would Boeing sell? Only if the price was right, but if Boeing was losing $40M each (as you noted above) how could another firm raise the price by $ 40M, restart the currently fragmenting supply chain for an added $15M and find customers for 50 more orders in the worst financing crisis. That would be an epic feat.

    I think you are right that Boeing is going to build out the number they have parts for. As 217... noted, the Triumph jigs could be in short term storage. Four years ago the 747 was on life support before UPS rode into town. It keeping going is what dreams are made of, but reality is another dozen frames or so before it is over.
     
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:28 am

    lightsaber wrote:
    Due to the history, nostalgia, and love for the queen of the skies, the debates on the 747 production restart will be louder. With continued rumors coming in, it seems the 747 is done.


    Oh I fully understand the nostalgia and love side of it, but my expectation is that some time towards the back end of next year, Boeing will announce the end of production.
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:41 am

    Ronaldo747 wrote:
    The issue is that even the 777-8XF is only a tradeoff and not an 100% adequate successor of the 747(-8F). You will have a big gap between the 777XF and the Antonovs. It's a dilemma.


    If it is a dilemma, it’s one that nobody seems to be prepared to pay to resolve. Which kind of begs the question, is it actually that much of a dilemma?

    DarkSnowyNight wrote:
    Most of the jigs people are actually referring to —tooling is a far more generic term that has almost no meaning in this parlance— you can see for yourself anytime you want. Not really sure where the debate is meant to be...


    We can? Where?

    DarkSnowyNight wrote:
    I am actually somewhat surprised there has not been a thread about this by now.


    Well played, Sir! :rotfl:

    JayinKitsap wrote:
    Back to the question - Why would Boeing sell? Only if the price was right, but if Boeing was losing $40M each (as you noted above) how could another firm raise the price by $ 40M, restart the currently fragmenting supply chain for an added $15M and find customers for 50 more orders in the worst financing crisis. That would be an epic feat.


    These are the cold, hard facts. I can’t see any way that it happens.
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:54 am

    What would Boeing do with the hangar space they build the 747 in? Is there any urgent need they'd have for that very hangar bay at Everett or would they still have some time to wait a bit? I wonder if there might be internal pressure to close the 747 asap for some reason? But 767, 777 and 787-lines seem to be well established in separate bays.
     
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:21 am

    Noshow wrote:
    What would Boeing do with the hangar space they build the 747 in? Is there any urgent need they'd have for that very hangar bay at Everett or would they still have some time to wait a bit? I wonder if there might be internal pressure to close the 747 asap for some reason? But 767, 777 and 787-lines seem to be well established in separate bays.


    Cheaper to have same standing around empty than losing 40 million USD per plane produced. In the current economic environment short-term hands-on approach (= get rif of loss-makers) wins hands down over long-term future potential (= keep the line in hope of x, y, z...). Airlines had plenty of time to order the 747-8F, and I would guess Boeing did more than one "last orders, please" round, which yielded zilch. Time to move on.
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:56 am

    Revelation wrote:
    argentinevol98 wrote:
    Revelation wrote:

    My first guess was a consortium of the customers, since we had read that five customers signed a letter to Boeing asking them to keep the line open.

    .

    I think these five airlines are just opportunists. You'd think Cargolux, Atlas Air etc would love to order more 748Fs. For sure Boeing offered them at attractive rates. But yet they didn't because they have too little money for new builts. Of course they want as much 747s produced as long as possible so they have more choice and they can buy cheaper 2nd hands or white tails later down the line. But when they are too cheap now to even order a hand full discounted 748Fs I don't see them committing to something complex as building an aircraft.
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:16 am

    Noshow wrote:
    What would Boeing do with the hangar space they build the 747 in? Is there any urgent need they'd have for that very hangar bay at Everett or would they still have some time to wait a bit? I wonder if there might be internal pressure to close the 747 asap for some reason? But 767, 777 and 787-lines seem to be well established in separate bays.


    There’s clearly no urgent need today with production rates tumbling.
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:04 pm

    Noshow wrote:
    What would Boeing do with the hangar space they build the 747 in? Is there any urgent need they'd have for that very hangar bay at Everett or would they still have some time to wait a bit? I wonder if there might be internal pressure to close the 747 asap for some reason? But 767, 777 and 787-lines seem to be well established in separate bays.


    My guess is to do a modern renovation of it. With no production aircraft you have the ability to safely tear the roof down to nothing and rebuild with a totally modern roofing system (instead of adding to the original base roof which has likely long ago failed). Electrical supply could be upgraded around the entire space to modern standards with lots of extra capability with modern "plug in where needed" electrical bus systems, base plumbing for restrooms and break areas can be redone, etc. The base building is rather old. It's unlikely any base structural work needs to be done... but, this provides an opportune time for any changes.

    So my guess is that Boeing dumps $2-5 Million into renovations and repairs while its empty.

    Have a great day,
     
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:32 pm

    scbriml wrote:
    Ronaldo747 wrote:
    The issue is that even the 777-8XF is only a tradeoff and not an 100% adequate successor of the 747(-8F). You will have a big gap between the 777XF and the Antonovs. It's a dilemma.


    If it is a dilemma, it’s one that nobody seems to be prepared to pay to resolve. Which kind of begs the question, is it actually that much of a dilemma?

    I do not see a delimma per se.

    777xF has demand, Boeing will probably build it. When is a discussion for another thread.

    Anything more doesn't have enough demand. The neat thing about a free market is eventually something will meet the demand if customers will pay enough. If demand rises, the mist likely answer is AN-124s fly more.

    On a.net, people are obsessed with 1 for 1 successors. I do system analysis and usually the answer is something else.

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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:08 pm

    This is sad... :( Contrary to popular belief, the 747 won't last forever. However, we shall salute to here forever
     
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:09 am

    2175301 wrote:
    Noshow wrote:
    What would Boeing do with the hangar space they build the 747 in? Is there any urgent need they'd have for that very hangar bay at Everett or would they still have some time to wait a bit? I wonder if there might be internal pressure to close the 747 asap for some reason? But 767, 777 and 787-lines seem to be well established in separate bays.


    My guess is to do a modern renovation of it. With no production aircraft you have the ability to safely tear the roof down to nothing and rebuild with a totally modern roofing system (instead of adding to the original base roof which has likely long ago failed). Electrical supply could be upgraded around the entire space to modern standards with lots of extra capability with modern "plug in where needed" electrical bus systems, base plumbing for restrooms and break areas can be redone, etc. The base building is rather old. It's unlikely any base structural work needs to be done... but, this provides an opportune time for any changes.

    So my guess is that Boeing dumps $2-5 Million into renovations and repairs while its empty.

    Have a great day,


    The Everett Plant is a REALLY BIG building, around 14 Million SF. Redoing the part where the 747 is I am sure needs a lot of renovation, in particular the HVAC system, fire protection, the concrete floor, the cranes, and the primary electrical. What new line goes into this would go into the updated shell space. The 747 portion is around 3 MSF, would need to budget at least $100/SF (new probably near $400) so $200 to $300 Million.
     
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:50 pm

    And for those holding out hope the USAF will do a 747-8 buy for the E-4B replacement....

    A USAF official familiar with the AOA (to replace the E-4B, E-6 and C-32) said it’s unlikely the study will come back with a four-engined solution, given the higher efficiency and certain availability of equally long-ranged, two-engined jets.


    https://www.airforcemag.com/end-of-747- ... air-force/
     
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:17 pm

    Boeing has today confirmed that the 747 program will be terminated in 2022.

    https://boeing.mediaroom.com/news-relea ... tem=130713

    "- While our 767 and 747 rates remain unchanged, in light of the current market dynamics and outlook, we’ll complete production of the iconic 747 in 2022. Our customer commitment does not end at delivery, and we’ll continue to support 747 operations and sustainment well into the future."
     
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:54 pm

    Momo1435 wrote:
    Boeing has today confirmed that the 747 program will be terminated in 2022.


    Thank you, Boeing, for making it official.
     
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:16 pm

    Momo1435 wrote:
    Boeing has today confirmed that the 747 program will be terminated in 2022.

    https://boeing.mediaroom.com/news-relea ... tem=130713

    "- While our 767 and 747 rates remain unchanged, in light of the current market dynamics and outlook, we’ll complete production of the iconic 747 in 2022. Our customer commitment does not end at delivery, and we’ll continue to support 747 operations and sustainment well into the future."

    Final year for 747 production conveniently avoids triggering buybacks, so 'end' likely to be the anniversary of the first LH acceptance (delivery milestone payment), and should also 'fix' a major parts price agreement.
     
    User avatar
    Revelation
    Topic Author
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:52 pm

    Stitch wrote:
    Momo1435 wrote:
    Boeing has today confirmed that the 747 program will be terminated in 2022.

    Thank you, Boeing, for making it official.

    Definitely an improvement in the state of affairs.

    However, they didn't say if they plan to build the four "spares" we discussed on the previous page by end 2022! :biggrin: :stirthepot:

    It seems to be an a.net rule that we need to have 747 threads continuously running, so at least we have something to discuss till the FAL gets torn down, and maybe beyond.

    Maybe they'll ship the four sets of spare parts and the production jigs to those Russian hangars where the MAS 777 is being kept.

    I hope I don't regret typing that in! :biggrin:
    Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
    The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
    Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
    The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
     
    mcg
    Posts: 1086
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    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:06 pm

    Revelation wrote:
    Stitch wrote:
    Momo1435 wrote:
    Boeing has today confirmed that the 747 program will be terminated in 2022.

    Thank you, Boeing, for making it official.

    Definitely an improvement in the state of affairs.

    However, they didn't say if they plan to build the four "spares" we discussed on the previous page by end 2022! :biggrin: :stirthepot:

    It seems to be an a.net rule that we need to have 747 threads continuously running, so at least we have something to discuss till the FAL gets torn down, and maybe beyond.

    Maybe they'll ship the four sets of spare parts and the production jigs to those Russian hangars where the MAS 777 is being kept.

    I hope I don't regret typing that in! :biggrin:



    I heard the tooling is going to the (not very) secret tunnels under DEN.
     
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    Stitch
    Posts: 27167
    Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:21 pm

    Revelation wrote:
    However, they didn't say if they plan to build the four "spares" we discussed on the previous page by end 2022! :biggrin: :stirthepot:


    I expect they are in constant discussions with UPS about the possibility of taking the "extras" - should UPS' internal studies show such a decision being a prudent one.

    If not, I expect they go into the general maintenance spare pool or they are scrapped.
     
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    Posts: 1870
    Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 11:19 am

    Re: ​Internal tussle as Boeing weighs future of 747

    Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:33 pm

    Stitch wrote:
    Revelation wrote:
    However, they didn't say if they plan to build the four "spares" we discussed on the previous page by end 2022! :biggrin: :stirthepot:


    I expect they are in constant discussions with UPS about the possibility of taking the "extras" - should UPS' internal studies show such a decision being a prudent one.

    If not, I expect they go into the general maintenance spare pool or they are scrapped.


    I expect that the discussions also include the other Airfreight Companies who use the 748F. Supposedly, several of these companies wanted the 748F available in future years... Here is their chance to get one of the last ones...

    Have a great day,
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