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kitplane01
Topic Author
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Updated: AA is allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 8:29 pm

American wanted permission to provide “personal use quantities of hand sanitizer gel and sanitizing wipes to customers prior to boarding and/or distributed during flight.” American Airlines held two separate meetings with FAA inspectors, from two separate FAA offices. As of yet, they still don't have permission.

Quoting from the FAA letter

AA has mitigated the risk appropriately. The AA CMO finds that the carriage and provisioning of hand sanitizer to passengers in the methods and quantities described meets conditions for FAA approval allowed in 49 CFR §175.8 (a)(4). The AA CMO understands that the specific products will be reviewed and approved by the AA Chemical Review Board (CRB) to meet the above CFR limitations and will be tracked on an internal reference list. All mitigations and procedures included in the AA RWM “Corp SMS and Team - 200512- 01 / Hand Sanitizer in Amenity Kits and Snack Bags”signed on May15, 2020 must be completed and complied with.


What are the realistic hand sanitizer risks?

https://viewfromthewing.com/airlines-ca ... ermission/
https://viewfromthewing.com/wp-content/ ... itizer.pdf
 
BravoOne
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 8:35 pm

I believe there is a potential fire hazard. I saw a briefing bulletin on membership only website that delt with the issue, but since I'm not riding around in a Gulfstream these days, I didn't pay much attention to it.
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 8:36 pm

Delta has been handing out both Purell liquid packets and wipes inflight for weeks now.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 8:46 pm

Pretty simple. As indicated in the link you provided, its Hazmat.

Alcohol-based hand sanitizers are classified as a Class 3, Flammable Liquid and their transportation via air, sea, rail or road must fall within applicable hazmat provisions.

Things like the quantity, packaging, storage and labeling, etc all matter and need to be approved by DOT/FAA in this case.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
United1
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

DLASFlyer wrote:
Delta has been handing out both Purell liquid packets and wipes inflight for weeks now.


I believe UA has been handing them out at well. I'm not sure what AA is doing differently from the rest of them that is preventing AA from handing out sanitizer.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
mxaxai
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 9:12 pm

United1 wrote:
I believe UA has been handing them out at well. I'm not sure what AA is doing differently from the rest of them that is preventing AA from handing out sanitizer.

Maybe AA made the mistake of talking to the regulator rather than just doing it.
 
Airlinerdude
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 9:26 pm

From a safety perspective, is this much different than every passenger (who are probably already) bringing their own hand sanitizer?
 
slvrblt
Posts: 371
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 9:32 pm

Airlinerdude wrote:
From a safety perspective, is this much different than every passenger (who are probably already) bringing their own hand sanitizer?


EXACTLY.

And the TSA allows 12oz of it to carry on!!

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-scr ... sanitizers
..everything works out in the end.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 9:36 pm

Why is hand sanitizer a hazard and booze isn't? (OK, 55-60% vs 40% but still...)
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
hiflyeras
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 9:37 pm

Each airline has their own FAA Cabin Safety Inspector...and they have their own little kingdom where they get to make the rules. And sometimes they're ridiculous rules that no other airline has to follow. It's absurd.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 9:39 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Why is hand sanitizer a hazard and booze isn't? (OK, 55-60% vs 40% but still...)



From the TSA:

Alcohol between 24% - 70% ABV (48 – 140 proof):

For carry-on, same rules apply as above. You are limited to containers of 3.4oz or less that fit in your quart-sized bag.

For checked bags you are limited to five liters per passenger. However, it must be in unopened retail packaging!

Alcohol over 70% ABV or over 140 proof:

Leave your bathtub brew at home! Seriously the strong stuff isn’t allowed in carry-on or checked bags!


https://www.tsa.gov/blog/2019/06/21/tsa ... ng-alcohol
 
alasizon
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 9:49 pm

Reading through the legalese, it sounds like the CMO has signed off on it but Hazmat has not. My guess is this has to do with AA's much higher LF cap compared to UA and DL combined with the desire to double provision longer legs.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
Ziyulu
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 9:56 pm

If this is a hazard, does that mean folks cannot bring their own?
 
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piedmontf284000
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 9:59 pm

American wants to place automatic dispensers at the front and back of each plane, they also want to carry additional supplies to refill them. That is far more then the small bottles of sanitizer the TSA allow passengers thru security with and far greater then the small packets that Delta and United are handing out which are equivalent to the size of wet wipes you get at restaurants.
 
alasizon
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 10:02 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
American wants to place automatic dispensers at the front and back of each plane, they also want to carry additional supplies to refill them. That is far more then the small bottles of sanitizer the TSA allow passengers thru security with and far greater then the small packets that Delta and United are handing out which are equivalent to the size of wet wipes you get at restaurants.


Not at all what the letter says. It explicitly states that AA is requesting approval to hand out packets of gel and wet wipes.

This letter is in response to your submission, dated May 19, 2020 in which you requested approval to provide personal use quantities of hand sanitizer gel and sanitizing wipes to customers prior to boarding and/or distributed during flight. The wipes/sachets consist of less than 1 ounce (28 grams) of hand sanitizing gel containing 60-70% alcohol (depending on manufacturer) per wipe/sachet.


It further goes on to say that the supplies will be kept in the catering carts and distributed among multiple carts to reduce risk.

AA has further provided information that shows all quantities will be prepared in accordance with the CFR limitations noted above and are to be dispersed throughout the catering carts to minimize concentration in any one location.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
AAtakeMeAway
Posts: 461
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:59 am

Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 10:21 pm

But they already do? I flew DFW-RSW and back last week. The snack bag distributed upon boarding included a small packet of hand sanitizer gel in addition to the water and snack.
 
alasizon
Posts: 2578
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 10:49 pm

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
But they already do? I flew DFW-RSW and back last week. The snack bag distributed upon boarding included a small packet of hand sanitizer gel in addition to the water and snack.


Likely packed that way by LSG but the specs currently don't call for one (likely because they are still waiting on approval).
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
spudsmac
Posts: 295
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 11:07 pm

What a joke. Some of the inspectors like to make it their personal goal to enforce arbitrary restrictions. At my old airline we had a cruise checklist that had us double check the sterile light is off just because the FAA inspector for our airline said we HAD to have a cruise checklist so they put a checklist to check the sterile light and seat-belt sign.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 11:24 pm

Hand sanitizer should be 70-85 % in order for it to have any effect
 
Wingtips56
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 11:35 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Why is hand sanitizer a hazard and booze isn't? (OK, 55-60% vs 40% but still...)

I bought a bottle of 80% alcohol sanitizer a couple of weeks ago, made by a SFO-area distillery. That would be considered flammable, being over 75%. I remember from when I was a station trainer for AirCal, and the hazmat class did specify, as a branded example, Bacardi 151 was banned from an aircraft; 151 Proof divided in half is just over 75% alcohol, the cut-off point.

But I seriously doubt AA and others want to pack the 80% stuff, and a little wipe packet is hardly enough to burn down Chicago. Like someone said, maybe AA made the mistake of checking with a regulator, and should have just kept their mouth shut.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
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zkojq
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 11:43 pm

Surely a low hanging fruit would be to have sanitizer available at the end of each jetbridge?
First to fly the 787-9
 
TMccrury
Posts: 132
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Wed May 27, 2020 11:46 pm

United1 wrote:
DLASFlyer wrote:
Delta has been handing out both Purell liquid packets and wipes inflight for weeks now.


I believe UA has been handing them out at well. I'm not sure what AA is doing differently from the rest of them that is preventing AA from handing out sanitizer.



You would be correct on UA passing them out. I was just on 4 UA flights and was given pretty much as many as I asked for on each of the flights.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2227
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Thu May 28, 2020 1:20 am

If they're wanting to INSTALL hand santizer dispensers at each end of the cabin then they were stupid and should have known better. You can't just screw it onto the wall.
You have to get buy-in from various departments in the FAA as you're making alterations to the interior of the aircraft.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Thu May 28, 2020 1:26 am

Mortyman wrote:
Hand sanitizer should be 70-85 % in order for it to have any effect

"CDC recommends using ABHR with greater than 60% ethanol or 70% isopropanol in healthcare settings."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... giene.html

DLASFlyer wrote:
Delta has been handing out both Purell liquid packets and wipes inflight for weeks now.

Different policies at different carriers. It's also possible that airlines like Delta simply started working on it sooner than American.
 
flyboy7974
Posts: 1396
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 4:35 pm

Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Thu May 28, 2020 1:32 am

Updated today:

Hand sanitizer will be provided in snack bags on flights 900-2199 miles.

Served with drinks on flights over 2200 miles.

On trays on flights with trayed service.
 
chrisair
Posts: 2138
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Thu May 28, 2020 6:35 am

flyboy7974 wrote:

Served with drinks on flights over 2200 miles.


Purell makes a good mixer!
 
Guillaume787
Posts: 55
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Thu May 28, 2020 6:43 am

chrisair wrote:
flyboy7974 wrote:

Served with drinks on flights over 2200 miles.


Purell makes a good mixer!

Thank you for the good laugh! :lol:
 
kalvado
Posts: 2723
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Thu May 28, 2020 11:50 am

DocLightning wrote:
Why is hand sanitizer a hazard and booze isn't? (OK, 55-60% vs 40% but still...)

because vodka doesn't burn. I believe you need 60% at least.
 
flyboy7974
Posts: 1396
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Thu May 28, 2020 12:33 pm

Guillaume787 wrote:
chrisair wrote:
flyboy7974 wrote:

Served with drinks on flights over 2200 miles.


Purell makes a good mixer!

Thank you for the good laugh! :lol:



That was a good one, made me laugh too!
 
Wacker1000
Posts: 226
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:36 pm

Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Thu May 28, 2020 1:36 pm

spudsmac wrote:
What a joke. Some of the inspectors like to make it their personal goal to enforce arbitrary restrictions. At my old airline we had a cruise checklist that had us double check the sterile light is off just because the FAA inspector for our airline said we HAD to have a cruise checklist so they put a checklist to check the sterile light and seat-belt sign.


Just remember that this is the same CMO that grounded a bunch of MD80s because wires weren't secured every 1.000" (even though the SB said 1") and more recently bowed to pressure from two of its operators to not immediately make the CFM56-7 fan blade issue an AD despite EASA doing so. Expectations shouldn't be high.
 
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par13del
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Thu May 28, 2020 2:40 pm

zkojq wrote:
Surely a low hanging fruit would be to have sanitizer available at the end of each jetbridge?

Which is what stores have been mandated to implement, sanitizer station at the door, however, the aviation industry is extra special so this common sense solution probably does not pass the FAA regulatory environment, I guess the chances of a fire in the enclosed jet bridge would be the logical reason?
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 583
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: Updated: AA is allowed to give hand sanitizer

Thu May 28, 2020 4:51 pm

It's mind boggling when you think about the number of paxs that are already bringing upon hand sanitizers or towelettes. But then again this entire "thing" lacks any sort of common sense.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Thu May 28, 2020 5:13 pm

flyboy7974 wrote:
Updated today:

Hand sanitizer will be provided in snack bags on flights 900-2199 miles.

Served with drinks on flights over 2200 miles.

On trays on flights with trayed service.

So what about flights less than 900 miles? Don't understand why all flights cannot hand out sanitizers.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Fri May 29, 2020 10:33 pm

kalvado wrote:
because vodka doesn't burn. I believe you need 60% at least.


Oh, yes it does! Ever seen a flambé? Or a flaming Dr. Pepper? Admittedly those aren't vodka, but they are distilled alcohol of similar proof.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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airportugal310
Posts: 3628
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Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Sat May 30, 2020 1:32 am

DTWLAX wrote:
flyboy7974 wrote:
Updated today:

Hand sanitizer will be provided in snack bags on flights 900-2199 miles.

Served with drinks on flights over 2200 miles.

On trays on flights with trayed service.

So what about flights less than 900 miles? Don't understand why all flights cannot hand out sanitizers.


You didn’t hear? Apparently can’t get the plague on a flight less than 900mi
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
planecane
Posts: 1559
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Sat May 30, 2020 1:55 am

[twoid][/twoid]
Mortyman wrote:
Hand sanitizer should be 70-85 % in order for it to have any effect

If it is ethanol based then it should be 60% or higher. Isopropanol based should be 70% or higher. It's not a blanket statement.
 
planecane
Posts: 1559
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Sat May 30, 2020 1:56 am

DTWLAX wrote:
flyboy7974 wrote:
Updated today:

Hand sanitizer will be provided in snack bags on flights 900-2199 miles.

Served with drinks on flights over 2200 miles.

On trays on flights with trayed service.

So what about flights less than 900 miles? Don't understand why all flights cannot hand out sanitizers.

I assume they aren't providing snacks or drinks on flights less than 900 miles.
 
alasizon
Posts: 2578
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Sat May 30, 2020 2:02 am

planecane wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
flyboy7974 wrote:
Updated today:

Hand sanitizer will be provided in snack bags on flights 900-2199 miles.

Served with drinks on flights over 2200 miles.

On trays on flights with trayed service.

So what about flights less than 900 miles? Don't understand why all flights cannot hand out sanitizers.

I assume they aren't providing snacks or drinks on flights less than 900 miles.


Snack bags aren't being provided on flights <900 miles. Beverage service on request only on those flights.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3583
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Sat May 30, 2020 3:02 am

kalvado wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
Why is hand sanitizer a hazard and booze isn't? (OK, 55-60% vs 40% but still...)

because vodka doesn't burn. I believe you need 60% at least.


Funny as they have flaming drinks at some bars that are made with Vodka. We must just drink better Vodka.
 
asdf
Posts: 695
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:03 am

Re: AA is not (yet) allowed to give hand sanitizer

Sat May 30, 2020 7:40 am

Mortyman wrote:
Hand sanitizer should be 70-85 % in order for it to have any effect


75—80% isapropanol

it wont work well outside this numbers

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