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LAXintl
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United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 3:52 pm

United joins AA and DL in offering Voluntary Separation Program for frontline employees.

No upfront :dollarsign: :dollarsign: offered however.



Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZMR3y5UMAA ... me=900x900

Highlights:

Key dates-

o Last day worked: June 30
o End of active benefits: June 30
o Separation date: July 1

Medical coverage-

o United medical plan coverage for your spouse/domestic partner/dependents (if covered today)
o 6-months of COBRA at active-rate medical coverage (savings of more than 80% versus COBRA rates)
o 12-months of COBRA-rate medical coverage

Enhanced travel privileges-

o Active pass travel privileges continued for 5 years after your separation (July 1) at your current SA1P boarding priority
o Choice of 100,000 MileagePlus® miles or 8 one-way positive space leisure passes for you or your eligible pass riders to use
o Ability to convert into the retiree pass travel program before or at the end of your 5 years of active pass travel

Job search support-

o Job partnerships program External job opportunity partnerships to help you connect with companies that are hiring
o Career readiness and skill building courses available prior to your separation
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 4:10 pm

First off it's a terrible situation for everyone thinking about Oct 1 so I feel for everyone. Sadly I think alot more corporate layoffs in alot of fields are coming.

I mean if I were a junior employee I would probably Consider taking it, you know your first on the chopping block and the job search will only get harder with more companies layoffs coming imho. You get a jump on getting a new job with less unknowns . You get travel benefits for the future when it will be fun to travel again and health insurance while you are looking. Pretty sure you can still get unemployment also in most if not all states. I know some people need a paycheck but reality is some people will stop getting one here regardless of their choice. Locking in affordable health insurance and future flight benefits is not the worst deal if you are young and can go move back in with your parents or a relative . Obviously if you have seniority id try to ride it out, but there's a group this is not the worst offer and they might get pushed into less. Just a hard situation , best of luck to all
 
DoctorVenkman
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 4:13 pm

If you take this deal you better be ready to go into a different industry. It's not like there's anyone hiring out there.
 
MrBretz
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 4:35 pm

I notice there doesn’t seem to be weeks of pay times years of service up to some max. I have seen that done in other industries.
 
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UPlog
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 4:52 pm

What a poor offer compared to the rich offer Delta announced this week. Even the AA offer provides partial pay for up to 6-months in addition to health and travel benefits for those that separate in June.
I fly your boxes
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 5:12 pm

United pilots won't go for this, why would they? UA signaled via past town halls etc they will be furloughing October 1st. Unlike AA, they aren't offering early retirement which seems odd since it will reduce the training waterfalls caused by furloughing up from the bottom.

UA is rolling out new displacement bids for pilots; the second one will come out in the next week or two. UA is pulling some 787s and 757s from storage which tracks the increase in TSA screenings observed. There will likely still be furloughs but smaller than the initial doomsday scenario.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 5:19 pm

Airlines are going to be hesitant to offer severance or anything else that equals immediate cash out the door; extensions of benefits, travel privileges, and other incentives will be present, but no severance or other cash payments are likely.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
tphuang
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 5:25 pm

It does seem like AA/DL are oferring more generous early out package. Would be interesting to see how the accounting department works out the numbers. Seems like UA is going for a pretty large furlough plan.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 5:29 pm

SonomaFlyer wrote:
United pilots won't go for this, why would they?


It looks like this is offered to IAM-represented employees. I might expect a different (far richer, because of higher wages, and training cascade costs) offer for pilots.
 
NorthTexAAs
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 5:34 pm

It looks like this is a "front-line" (customer service) staff offer, whereas I believe the AA offers announced recently is for management. DL's may have been broader since fewer employees are represented but, either way, AA/UA offer comparisons may not be valid.
 
joeblow10
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 5:55 pm

tphuang wrote:
It does seem like AA/DL are oferring more generous early out package. Would be interesting to see how the accounting department works out the numbers. Seems like UA is going for a pretty large furlough plan.



Meh - AA/DL have a great retirement offer from what I read, but the VSP for those not eligible for early retirement seems worse than UAs offering here. Namely the travel privileges - DL seems to only be offering them for 1 year? WN said up to 4 I believe?

Now, if UA isn’t offering any cash severance like I’m reading this to be... then that’s significantly worse
Last edited by joeblow10 on Fri May 29, 2020 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
catiii
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 5:56 pm

UPlog wrote:
What a poor offer compared to the rich offer Delta announced this week. Even the AA offer provides partial pay for up to 6-months in addition to health and travel benefits for those that separate in June.


It is not a valid comparison. This is solely for IAM represented workgroups at UA. The DL and AA offers were for a broader group.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 6:00 pm

catiii wrote:
UPlog wrote:
It is not a valid comparison. This is solely for IAM represented workgroups at UA. The DL and AA offers were for a broader group.


Incorrect.

This offer is much broader,

From FAQ:

Who is eligible to participate?
All US, Puerto Rico, or Guam based IAM, IBT, AFA (including IFAs), and PAFCA represented employees as well as Catering Ops can participate, provided they are active or on leave as of June 1, 2020.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
bhill
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 6:13 pm

Pardon my ignorance of working in the Airline Industry, but if you are on unemployment benefits, which is not a lot of money, how are you going to afford ANY travel?
Carpe Pices
 
jayunited
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 6:19 pm

catiii wrote:
UPlog wrote:
What a poor offer compared to the rich offer Delta announced this week. Even the AA offer provides partial pay for up to 6-months in addition to health and travel benefits for those that separate in June.


It is not a valid comparison. This is solely for IAM represented workgroups at UA. The DL and AA offers were for a broader group.


This is not solely for IAM represented workgroups this covers a wide range of workgroups.

The only thing missing from this agreement is money. I think it is a solid agreement and United would get a high participation rate if they included some money. I know UA wants to try and keep as much money as they can but in my opinion UA is missing the bigger picture. Laying off tens of thousands of D, C, and B scalers will achieve nothing. United Airlines has a lot of employees who are either past the retirement age, at the retirement age, or will be near the retirement age within the next 3 years. United still has a lot of employees with over 35 years of seniority in every department, these are the people UA should be targeting. I've always stated from the beginning if UA wants to get their attention in addition to health insurance there needs to be some money on the table. Laying off employees making $15 dollars an hour will do very little for UA's bottom line over the long term whereas if they can get enough top scale employees near retirement to go in the short term it will cost UA money but long term UA would substantially lower its cost.

Just my opinion
 
WaGuy69
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 6:58 pm

Does anybody have what DL and AA is offering? The benifits?
 
Dalmd88
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 7:21 pm

WaGuy69 wrote:
Does anybody have what DL and AA is offering? The benifits?

DL early Retirement: 10 year min seniority 70 pts age/seniority

2 years paid healthcare, employee and all current covered dependents
Retirement Medical Account-$100,000-150,000 to be used for any not covered medical expenses (similar to HSA can be used for COBRA, Medicare Supp, copays, etc)
Cash pay out 6 months of Mar 1 2020 rate for most.
Positive space tickets
1 year of travel privileges at active status
6 yearly S3B passes yearly after one year, unlimited S3C like current retirees.

I think that's it. Aug 1st separation.

The vol separation is similar, no RMA or retirement pass privileges.
 
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malaysia
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 7:28 pm

Imagine any airline doing lifetime retirement pass benefits for anyone who is laid off if they are not even near retirement age, that would be an interesting option and I would jump on that if I were in an airline, if I had plenty of years still to go.
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
tjerome
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 7:33 pm

Dalmd88 wrote:
WaGuy69 wrote:
Does anybody have what DL and AA is offering? The benifits?

DL early Retirement: 10 year min seniority 70 pts age/seniority

2 years paid healthcare, employee and all current covered dependents
Retirement Medical Account-$100,000-150,000 to be used for any not covered medical expenses (similar to HSA can be used for COBRA, Medicare Supp, copays, etc)
Cash pay out 6 months of Mar 1 2020 rate for most.
Positive space tickets
1 year of travel privileges at active status
6 yearly S3B passes yearly after one year, unlimited S3C like current retirees.

I think that's it. Aug 1st separation.

The vol separation is similar, no RMA or retirement pass privileges.


All retirees will get 6 S3As per year and the normal code is S3B.

For the voluntary separation:

-Severance depends on amount of service, 8 years or more gets you 20 weeks
-Active medical for 12 months, fully paid for
-2 positive space passes
-Active travel for 12 months, then you get either:
----For those that have "55 points" combining age and years of service, they get retiree flight benefits (unlimited S3B) but must have a minimum of 10 years.
----For everyone else, S3B yield fare (similar to a buddy pass fee). For every year of service you get the S3B yield fare for 2 years, up to 10 years (3 years of service gets 6 years of this, 5 years of service gets 10 years, 7 years of service gets 10 years).
-Career transition support
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 7:55 pm

malaysia wrote:
Imagine any airline doing lifetime retirement pass benefits for anyone who is laid off if they are not even near retirement age, that would be an interesting option and I would jump on that if I were in an airline, if I had plenty of years still to go.



There are problems with a 30,000 person airline having unlimited flight benefits for 100,000 people.

Financial and Logisitical
 
MrBretz
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 10:40 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
malaysia wrote:
Imagine any airline doing lifetime retirement pass benefits for anyone who is laid off if they are not even near retirement age, that would be an interesting option and I would jump on that if I were in an airline, if I had plenty of years still to go.



There are problems with a 30,000 person airline having unlimited flight benefits for 100,000 people.

Financial and Logisitical


I have a friend that retired from Delta. Recently, they have a lot of trouble getting free travel. I don't understand all the restrictions but they tell me what they go through and recently they have been paying to get to a hub so they go free from there. And they seem to be experts at the process. In any case, they haven't wanted to travel since March.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 10:49 pm

MrBretz wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
malaysia wrote:
Imagine any airline doing lifetime retirement pass benefits for anyone who is laid off if they are not even near retirement age, that would be an interesting option and I would jump on that if I were in an airline, if I had plenty of years still to go.



There are problems with a 30,000 person airline having unlimited flight benefits for 100,000 people.

Financial and Logisitical


I have a friend that retired from Delta. Recently, they have a lot of trouble getting free travel. I don't understand all the restrictions but they tell me what they go through and recently they have been paying to get to a hub so they go free from there. And they seem to be experts at the process. In any case, they haven't wanted to travel since March.


Prior to Corona the load factors were so high it was impossible to pass travel. That being fire as all but died for active employees. When you retire it’s even worse because their priority is below all active and active employees.
 
toltommy
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 11:17 pm

DoctorVenkman wrote:
If you take this deal you better be ready to go into a different industry. It's not like there's anyone hiring out there.


Breeze still plans to launch.

https://www.flybreeze.com/#jobs
A300/A310/A319/A320/A321/A332/A333 / 707/712/727/732/733/734/735/738/739/752/753
/762/763/764/772/788/789/DC8/DC9-10/30/40/50/MD81/83/87/88/90/L1011-/250/500/CRJ200/440 /700/900/EMB135/140/145/170/175/190/328Jet/F70/SF3/BE1/J31
 
Dalmd88
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Fri May 29, 2020 11:59 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
malaysia wrote:
Imagine any airline doing lifetime retirement pass benefits for anyone who is laid off if they are not even near retirement age, that would be an interesting option and I would jump on that if I were in an airline, if I had plenty of years still to go.



There are problems with a 30,000 person airline having unlimited flight benefits for 100,000 people.

Financial and Logisitical

Pass travel really isn't what it used to be. Before all this meltdown it was pretty tough to get on an airplane for pass travel. Loads were just too high system wide. Giving away the right to sit at the airport and watch full flights leave does not cost the airline anything. Remember all those 30,000 are in front of the 100,000.

I expect pass travel to be meaningless to me once I retire. Even with almost 25 years at Delta I buy tickets more than I use the pass travel lottery.
 
DDR
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Sat May 30, 2020 12:08 am

Agreed. I buy tickets rather than try to use pass travel. It’s just not worth the heartburn.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Sat May 30, 2020 1:08 am

Even when it is a "no-brainer" to use pass travel, I buy a ticket. I have had too many close calls with 70+ open seats to even bother. A cancel the night before you fly out immediately ruins any chance of flying the next day. It sucks to go to bed with 65 open seats, and wake up at 4 in the morning to an oversold flight with 25 standbys.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Sat May 30, 2020 1:15 am

bhill wrote:
Pardon my ignorance of working in the Airline Industry, but if you are on unemployment benefits, which is not a lot of money, how are you going to afford ANY travel?


We all wish it was a more generous offer but this is for different employees than AAs offer I think so apples to oranges?

Let's face it united has limited cash to offer here all airlines do. I would say how bad can Oct 1 be , maybe less flight benefits and less time of subsidized healthcare? Some people might want to stay for the extra paychecks and won't consider this, totally understandable. For some more Junior Frontline staff maybe it's better then what they will get Oct 1 and you can start changing now. I wish it was more, we all do. They deserve more but sounds like Oct 1 will be even less generous by the text?

Anyone who takes this or gets let go Oct 1 will have to get a new job in a new industry, so some might get new jobs relatively quickly. No airlines are hiring anytime soon unless it's a super specialist who won't be taking this. Maybe they have already applied and will be a contact tracer or are going back to an old job or family business. Everyone is unique , I know FAs who are all applying to new jobs actively. If they land an offer then maybe you want this deal.

Some people have relatives or friends they can visit with a free plane ticket. I have tons of friends I could visit with free travel and not much more than sitting at home. Especially younger staff more inclined to take this don't need a five star resort they have places they can explore or go on a budget or just visit family and friends. Travel benefits can be worth alot even on a budget especially for younger people witu flexible schedules and loads they will be worth something for a while here until demand comes back. Agreed on a fixed schedule and when loads were high benefits stink, but if you are flexible they can always have value.

We all wish it was more, question is just if you get laid off Oct 1 do you get even less and then less time before the holidays the economy could be worse etc etc. No easy answers here
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Sat May 30, 2020 1:29 am

DDR wrote:
Agreed. I buy tickets rather than try to use pass travel. It’s just not worth the heartburn.

Likewise, and have done so for years.

Even off peak to Europe has become a nightmare to pass ride.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Sat May 30, 2020 2:44 am

I had one of those "sure things" once, the later of the two AA LGW-DFW departures; 60+ open seats the day before. Got to the airport and it turned out NW had blown an engine on departure the day before, and those folks slopped over to next available. Another time, again the second flight, filled up last minute because of ATC strikes in France (no, really...what a surprise....), making folks miss the connections to the earlier flight. Sigh ...

So now we travel on frequent flyer miles. Use the credit cards for everything; toilet paper and toothpaste all the way up to anything we can buy. $500 deposit on the new Toyota. We do pay our cards off monthly, which is essential to make this work. Then we buy miles to make up the difference to the Business Class level. May cost a grand out of pocket, but you get six grand in equivalent travel.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
Wingtips56
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Sat May 30, 2020 2:48 am

Wingtips56 wrote:
I had one of those "sure things" once, the later of the two AA LGW-DFW departures; 60+ open seats the day before. Got to the airport and it turned out NW had blown an engine on departure the day before, and those folks slopped over to next available. Another time, again the second flight, filled up last minute because of ATC strikes in France (no, really...what a surprise....), making folks miss the connections to the earlier flight. Sigh ...

So now we travel on frequent flyer miles. Use the credit cards for everything; toilet paper and toothpaste all the way up to anything we can buy. $500 deposit on the new Toyota. We do pay our cards off monthly, which is essential to make this work. Then we buy miles to make up the difference to the Business Class level. May cost a grand out of pocket, but you get six grand in equivalent travel.

And I'm one who has been through several layoffs and three paycuts. Finally went out on layoff pending retirement at 55 (thank heaven for AA's 50/55 rule!!!). I got travel and (eventually) my insurance back until I turn 65 next year. Have been offered Cobra health care options. Really? Have you seen what those cost? When you're out of work, you can't afford to buy Cobra, so it's a worthless offer in my opinion.

oops....that was meant to be an edit, not a new post.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
catiii
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:19 am

LAXintl wrote:
catiii wrote:
UPlog wrote:
It is not a valid comparison. This is solely for IAM represented workgroups at UA. The DL and AA offers were for a broader group.


Incorrect.

This offer is much broader,

From FAQ:

Who is eligible to participate?
All US, Puerto Rico, or Guam based IAM, IBT, AFA (including IFAs), and PAFCA represented employees as well as Catering Ops can participate, provided they are active or on leave as of June 1, 2020.


Ok, that’s not what it said on the top right of the image though under “Eligibility”
 
nwadeicer
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:54 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Airlines are going to be hesitant to offer severance or anything else that equals immediate cash out the door; extensions of benefits, travel privileges, and other incentives will be present, but no severance or other cash payments are likely.


Really? Huh, I got an offer of a little over 30 grand cash, among other benefits, to leave Delta. As did quite a few other employees. Maybe it was a mistake? ;)
I miss the Red Tail
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:06 pm

nwadeicer wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Airlines are going to be hesitant to offer severance or anything else that equals immediate cash out the door; extensions of benefits, travel privileges, and other incentives will be present, but no severance or other cash payments are likely.


Really? Huh, I got an offer of a little over 30 grand cash, among other benefits, to leave Delta. As did quite a few other employees. Maybe it was a mistake? ;)


Take it.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:50 pm

Dalmd88 wrote:
Pass travel really isn't what it used to be. Before all this meltdown it was pretty tough to get on an airplane for pass travel. Loads were just too high system wide. Giving away the right to sit at the airport and watch full flights leave does not cost the airline anything. Remember all those 30,000 are in front of the 100,000.

I expect pass travel to be meaningless to me once I retire. Even with almost 25 years at Delta I buy tickets more than I use the pass travel lottery.


This. Pass travel is barely worth it the last decade or so. Now (well pre-COVID19) airlines operate with super high load factors. I would put very little value in pass benes unless you like flying on a 6AM Tuesday morning flight to a non-high demand destination.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:06 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
Dalmd88 wrote:
Pass travel really isn't what it used to be. Before all this meltdown it was pretty tough to get on an airplane for pass travel. Loads were just too high system wide. Giving away the right to sit at the airport and watch full flights leave does not cost the airline anything. Remember all those 30,000 are in front of the 100,000.

I expect pass travel to be meaningless to me once I retire. Even with almost 25 years at Delta I buy tickets more than I use the pass travel lottery.


This. Pass travel is barely worth it the last decade or so. Now (well pre-COVID19) airlines operate with super high load factors. I would put very little value in pass benes unless you like flying on a 6AM Tuesday morning flight to a non-high demand destination.


Yes alot of people have flexibility of when to travel and can make these have value. Also for the next year or two i think there will be more space than typical especially international. that will be slow to come back.

If you need to travel to LAS on a Friday morning or be on a specific flight then yes this wont be of much value and you should plan on purchasing and a pass isnt for you. A certain younger person who is more inclined to take this offer i think has alot more flexibility not only on schedules but maybe even destinations. They just want to explore South East Asia or Europe or the American West they can make a pass have alot of value.
 
F27500
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:18 pm

When i think of Voluntary Separation, i still think of baggage. Remember back in the old days when someone would arrive at the counter too late to be guaranteed their bag would make it on to their flight (I'm dating myself here) .. we'd have to make the pax sign a Limited Release tag and we'd write V/S ALL over it ... LOL
 
nwadeicer
Posts: 300
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:38 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
nwadeicer wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Airlines are going to be hesitant to offer severance or anything else that equals immediate cash out the door; extensions of benefits, travel privileges, and other incentives will be present, but no severance or other cash payments are likely.


Really? Huh, I got an offer of a little over 30 grand cash, among other benefits, to leave Delta. As did quite a few other employees. Maybe it was a mistake? ;)


Take it.


No chance, not enough money. My 401K is sitting fine however 30,000 is way to low, especially seeing I have no use for the medical benefits. Has Alaska offered a early out program? I'm sure you being middle management has to be pretty dicey nowadays.
I miss the Red Tail
 
MIflyer12
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:45 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
nwadeicer wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Airlines are going to be hesitant to offer severance or anything else that equals immediate cash out the door; extensions of benefits, travel privileges, and other incentives will be present, but no severance or other cash payments are likely.


Really? Huh, I got an offer of a little over 30 grand cash, among other benefits, to leave Delta. As did quite a few other employees. Maybe it was a mistake? ;)


Take it.


No doubt they're trying to minimize immediate cash outlays but they must want some people to take an early-out offer. Cash can help with that.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:58 pm

I don't know why the airlines aren't offering back-ended buy-out separations. For example, a $50k buyout, where they pay you out $1,000 a month for the first year, and then a lump sum of $38k at the end of 12 months. You really have to sweeten the pot if you want people to voluntarily leave good jobs. This gets people out the door now at a lower cash cost, and then when things begin to improve they can assume the cash payments. They could even spread that out even more by dividing that $38k over 2 payments in a year. so, $12k over year 1 (paid out $1k monthly), year 2 is $38k paid out $14k on month 1 and month 6.
 
nwadeicer
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:29 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
I don't know why the airlines aren't offering back-ended buy-out separations. For example, a $50k buyout, where they pay you out $1,000 a month for the first year, and then a lump sum of $38k at the end of 12 months. You really have to sweeten the pot if you want people to voluntarily leave good jobs. This gets people out the door now at a lower cash cost, and then when things begin to improve they can assume the cash payments. They could even spread that out even more by dividing that $38k over 2 payments in a year. so, $12k over year 1 (paid out $1k monthly), year 2 is $38k paid out $14k on month 1 and month 6.


I know plenty of co-workers who would have left in a heartbeat had the money been better. Most of them were in the same boat as me, no need for any medical benefits. Delta should have made a pkg that excluded benefits and placed more into the severance pay for those that wanted that option. Delta is bleeding out what, 40 million every day, doubtful they would miss 1/2 of that to get people to leave.
I miss the Red Tail
 
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NWAESC
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:41 am

I wonder if they’ll change their minds now that WN is offering up to 50% pay for long term leaves?
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:46 am

NWAESC wrote:
I wonder if they’ll change their minds now that WN is offering up to 50% pay for long term leaves?


Maybe, but WN is in a much better cash position and has far less international exposure. My point stands though, that unless they absolutely have to, carriers are going to do all they can to avoid cash buyouts and will continue to focus on making benefit packages more generous before resorting to cash.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
nwadeicer
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:06 am

NWAESC wrote:
I wonder if they’ll change their minds now that WN is offering up to 50% pay for long term leaves?

Depending on how long that leave is and if I wanted to return early I could would be a factor in that decision. It would be nice to continue to have access to flight benefits as well
I miss the Red Tail
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:42 am

NWAESC wrote:
I wonder if they’ll change their minds now that WN is offering up to 50% pay for long term leaves?


I don't think any airlines moves will have any impact on the others. They are not fighting over staff. This decision will be set by themselves based on their situations. They all have their own over-staffing, costs, balance sheets, debts etc etc. Some airlines are going to need to layoff alot more than others, obviously the more you need to layoff the harder it is to be really generous. If the numbers are low you can afford to be generous. I think WN will be some pretty low numbers compared to DL, AA, UA if i had to guess
 
BTV290
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:32 am

I really don't understand the whole "pass travel is useless" mentality. I only have four years with my company... Pre-COVID I nonreved at least twice a month if not more. 125,000 miles in 2019... Of course you have your like once yearly nightmare where you get stuck or have to get REALLY creative to get out of a non-rev predicament, but I've really (generally speaking) never had difficulty getting on flights. You just have to know what you're doing...
 
jayunited
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:31 pm

BTV290 wrote:
I really don't understand the whole "pass travel is useless" mentality. I only have four years with my company... Pre-COVID I nonreved at least twice a month if not more. 125,000 miles in 2019... Of course you have your like once yearly nightmare where you get stuck or have to get REALLY creative to get out of a non-rev predicament, but I've really (generally speaking) never had difficulty getting on flights. You just have to know what you're doing...



Don't take this the wrong way but I find your statement hard to believe. You nonreved at least twice a month if not more and racked up over 125,000 miles but you only had a handful of nightmare scenarios with 4 years seniority? The only way your statement is even close to be true is if you are a pilot or a flight attendant because then you would have jumpseat authority.

I don't know what airline you work for but that is not the experience of many airline employees and the facts don't support your statement. The facts are in 2019 there were a record number of paying customers flying worldwide meaning fewer available seats for nonrevs no matter the airline. I have 24 years of seniority and there we're plenty of times last year were I was left behind, or had to get extremely creative to get home. Pass travel benefits are basically useless because in order to be able to pass travel you need empty seats. Unless your airline clears nonrevs on a first come first serve basis then your four years seniority is basically useless even if you were to use a vacation pass (UA employees know what those are). I never listed using a vacation pass but if a person with less seniority than me decided to use a vacation pass and I needed to get to where I was going an hour before departure I would use a vacation pass to jump ahead. If we are both using vacation passes my 24 years beats your 4 years every time.

Keep the pass travel benefits, put some money on the table along with medical benefits and allow me to continue to have access to the 20% discount and I'm good.
 
joeblow10
Posts: 382
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:47 pm

BTV290 wrote:
I really don't understand the whole "pass travel is useless" mentality. I only have four years with my company... Pre-COVID I nonreved at least twice a month if not more. 125,000 miles in 2019... Of course you have your like once yearly nightmare where you get stuck or have to get REALLY creative to get out of a non-rev predicament, but I've really (generally speaking) never had difficulty getting on flights. You just have to know what you're doing...


Pre-COVID? Agreed. First flight of the day, be flexible where you’re going (don’t plan on non-revving to your best friends wedding!), maybe make an unorthodox connection, and you get there fine. I still usually paid for my tickets, but non-revving never was an issue if I found somewhere open for the weekend. Heck, I even got on the Sunday after Thanksgiving last year.

Now though? It’s gotten a lot tougher. Between the seat caps on carriers, lack of connectivity, and reduced capacity, it’s definitely not as easy. I’d say the flight bennies won’t be worth much for at least another year or two, not to mention you can’t really go intl at the moment either...
 
wn676
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:59 pm

jayunited wrote:
BTV290 wrote:
I really don't understand the whole "pass travel is useless" mentality. I only have four years with my company... Pre-COVID I nonreved at least twice a month if not more. 125,000 miles in 2019... Of course you have your like once yearly nightmare where you get stuck or have to get REALLY creative to get out of a non-rev predicament, but I've really (generally speaking) never had difficulty getting on flights. You just have to know what you're doing...



Don't take this the wrong way but I find your statement hard to believe. You nonreved at least twice a month if not more and racked up over 125,000 miles but you only had a handful of nightmare scenarios with 4 years seniority? The only way your statement is even close to be true is if you are a pilot or a flight attendant because then you would have jumpseat authority.

I don't know what airline you work for but that is not the experience of many airline employees and the facts don't support your statement. The facts are in 2019 there were a record number of paying customers flying worldwide meaning fewer available seats for nonrevs no matter the airline. I have 24 years of seniority and there we're plenty of times last year were I was left behind, or had to get extremely creative to get home. Pass travel benefits are basically useless because in order to be able to pass travel you need empty seats. Unless your airline clears nonrevs on a first come first serve basis then your four years seniority is basically useless even if you were to use a vacation pass (UA employees know what those are). I never listed using a vacation pass but if a person with less seniority than me decided to use a vacation pass and I needed to get to where I was going an hour before departure I would use a vacation pass to jump ahead. If we are both using vacation passes my 24 years beats your 4 years every time.

Keep the pass travel benefits, put some money on the table along with medical benefits and allow me to continue to have access to the 20% discount and I'm good.


Though not always pleasant, it’s absolutely possible. I logged just over 83,000 SA miles last yea and I work a 9-5 with weekends off (so I’m not usually flying off-peak). The only real nightmare scenario I experienced was when I had a flight cancel on me in an international station and I had to ZED to another city to get home. My registered buddy flew roughly 111,000 SA miles, and we had interns last spring that were pulling in similar mileage on the same schedule by flying almost every Friday.
Last edited by wn676 on Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BTV290
Posts: 40
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Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:18 pm

jayunited wrote:
Don't take this the wrong way but I find your statement hard to believe. You nonreved at least twice a month if not more and racked up over 125,000 miles but you only had a handful of nightmare scenarios with 4 years seniority? The only way your statement is even close to be true is if you are a pilot or a flight attendant because then you would have jumpseat authority.

I don't know what airline you work for but that is not the experience of many airline employees and the facts don't support your statement. The facts are in 2019 there were a record number of paying customers flying worldwide meaning fewer available seats for nonrevs no matter the airline. I have 24 years of seniority and there we're plenty of times last year were I was left behind, or had to get extremely creative to get home. Pass travel benefits are basically useless because in order to be able to pass travel you need empty seats. Unless your airline clears nonrevs on a first come first serve basis then your four years seniority is basically useless even if you were to use a vacation pass (UA employees know what those are). I never listed using a vacation pass but if a person with less seniority than me decided to use a vacation pass and I needed to get to where I was going an hour before departure I would use a vacation pass to jump ahead. If we are both using vacation passes my 24 years beats your 4 years every time.


Nope. I work for one of the big three, and we clear by seniority. You just have to know what you're doing. Yes, load factors were high, but they weren't 100 percent. They were about 85 percent average... This means there's still about 15 percent of seats left out there. You just have to find them. "Hidden city" connections are your best friend (trying to go from MCO to ATL? Connect in RDU instead...). For the entirety of 2019 I only used one of my six priority passes, and only didn't make it (somehow) to where I was trying to go, on the day I wanted to go once. You just have to be flexible and creative. If you're the type that will only consider one routing and one time frame to get to your destination, then yes, I could EASILY understand why people would feel that way.
Also I'm not flight crew. No jumpseat access... But I did come from Customer Service. I think that's also an inherent advantage, because I have the experience of being on the other side of the gate podium, watching thoughts of flights "play out"... So I'm able to think a couple steps ahead of the non-rev masses. Many of those times I quietly walked away from an angry non-rev mob at a gate, because I'd found another option... With one seat left... Couldn't let them find my secret escape route!
 
BTV290
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:33 pm

Re: United announces Voluntary Separation Program

Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:22 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
Pre-COVID? Agreed. First flight of the day, be flexible where you’re going (don’t plan on non-revving to your best friends wedding!), maybe make an unorthodox connection, and you get there fine. I still usually paid for my tickets, but non-revving never was an issue if I found somewhere open for the weekend. Heck, I even got on the Sunday after Thanksgiving last year.

Now though? It’s gotten a lot tougher. Between the seat caps on carriers, lack of connectivity, and reduced capacity, it’s definitely not as easy. I’d say the flight bennies won’t be worth much for at least another year or two, not to mention you can’t really go intl at the moment either...


Yes, agreed. It's a different game now. Because of the reduced schedule, most city pairs only have "one shot" per day to make it. We see it with our revenue passengers as well... Any missed connection results in a full day delay. But that aside, now the numbers we see in our travel portals don't match reality anymore, etc. Now, post-COVID, I'd be more wary.

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