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Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Sat May 30, 2020 1:55 am

This week Volga-Dnepr has filed a lawsuit against Boeing over several cargo aircraft that it now wants that only a few months ago couldnt commit to.

The complaint alleges Boeing wrongfully retains up to $146 million in payments for the 4 748F's which at list prices are worth at around $600 million, plus they have 9 777F's ordered as well. It also alleges refuses to delivery the jets.

However Volga-Dnepr back in January it could not take near term delivery of a 748F and 3 777F's has now changed its mind.

On January 17 2020 Volga-Dnepr wrote to Boeing advising them they could not take delivery of a 748F and needed to rescind the purchase agreement. Five days later they wrote to Boeing again to saying it could fulfil its contractual agreement over the 3 777F's.

Subsequently the 4 748F's were removed from the Boeing Backlog in March, this is presuming they were cancelled

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... _inset_1.1
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JayinKitsap
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Sat May 30, 2020 2:10 am

Quite interesting. In a 748F thread a few months back, there were discussions that Air Bridge (Volga-Dnepr subsidiary) didn't take a freighter and that 4 further freighters on order did not receive their progress payments to proceed to final assembly.
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Sat May 30, 2020 2:29 am

It looks like there is at least one of the four B748F's ready and waiting to be delivered to Volga-Dnepr:

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... rgo/edwmmv
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Sat May 30, 2020 2:37 am

Seems like they're really messing Boeing around. I hope that the-8Fs will find new homes.
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Sat May 30, 2020 2:57 am

No wonder they aren't flying into Paine field anymore on their Antonov doing deliveries...
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Sat May 30, 2020 3:12 am

It's already found a new owner !
FLALEFTY wrote:
It looks like there is at least one of the four B748F's ready and waiting to be delivered to Volga-Dnepr:

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... rgo/edwmmv
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Sat May 30, 2020 3:22 am

So wait a minute. Pre-Covid they couldn't afford them. Post-Covid, the freight/cargo market has turned, and now they realize they could turn a profit with them and are now pissed at Boeing? Makes perfect sense!
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Sat May 30, 2020 3:43 am

By the time they get them, passenger airlines will be flying internationally again and there will be belly capacity. In pther words, Volga won't need them by the time they get them
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Sat May 30, 2020 5:18 am

pdxswa wrote:
It's already found a new owner !
FLALEFTY wrote:
It looks like there is at least one of the four B748F's ready and waiting to be delivered to Volga-Dnepr:

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... rgo/edwmmv


Wait, who’s the new owner??? Air Bridge Cargo is a subsidiary of Volga-Dnepr, unless you are talking about a completely new customer that we are not aware about.....
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:58 pm

So it sounds like the courts didn't agree with Volga-Dnepr and sided with Boeing on all accounts:

https://theloadstar.com/volga-dnepr-los ... questions/
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:45 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
pdxswa wrote:
It's already found a new owner !
FLALEFTY wrote:
It looks like there is at least one of the four B748F's ready and waiting to be delivered to Volga-Dnepr:

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... rgo/edwmmv


Wait, who’s the new owner??? Air Bridge Cargo is a subsidiary of Volga-Dnepr, unless you are talking about a completely new customer that we are not aware about.....


"Customer A" according to the court records from the lawsuit that Volga brought. It was reported in a bizjournal article that was linked in the other thread yesterday.

https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2020/06/01/boeing-747-freighter-cargo-jet-orders-pandemic.html

It's behind a paywall, but it states that they quoted them and negotiated with them in March and April and finalized the contract in May. It is now pending board approval. Speculation in the article is that it is UPS, and that they have agreed to not only take the near-term frame, but the rest of the frames in the Volga-Dnepr purchase agreement, as well as potentially 3 more for a total of 7 if it comes to pass.
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:34 pm

In June of 2019, Volga-Dnepr signed a sale-and-leaseback agreement with DAE (Dubai Aerospace Enterprises) for three of the nine 777F they have on order. I wonder if the new customer for the three 777F that were also part of this legal proceeding is now DAE and, if so, if they intend to lease them to Volga-Dnepr or some other customer. And if it is DAE, will they also consider taking some or all of the remaining 777F Volga-Dnepr has on order...
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:52 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
So it sounds like the courts didn't agree with Volga-Dnepr and sided with Boeing on all accounts:

https://theloadstar.com/volga-dnepr-los ... questions/

From your link (I read the Loadstar weekly):

Boeing decided to re-market them – as it had been instructed to by VD. But as air freight rates began to skyrocket, VD somehow found the money and changed its mind. But it was too late, it had broken its contract and Boeing already had other customers.

Contracts are met or broken. At least Boeing could resell due to odd circumstances.

An interesting little saga.

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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:04 am

Seattle Times now reporting that the "Customer B" for two of Volga-Dnepr's NTU 777Fs is also preparing to place an order for the 777X and 787. Speculation is it could be:

All Nippon Airlines - Current 777F, 777X and 787 customer.
Eva Air - Current 777F and 787 customer with a large 777-300ER fleet so the 777X seems reasonable for them
UFO Chinese Customer - IMO, this is unlikely due to the current strained relations between the US and Chinese governments.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... o-carrier/

Dedicated discussion thread at viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1447223&p=22256283#p22256283
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:46 pm

From Boeing's May order update:

Volga-Dnepr UK Ltd
747-8F -1x
777F -2x
against:

new orders:
UPS 747-8F +1x
Unidentified Customer(s) 777F +x2

Boeing also sold 5x 767F on the same date as the Unidentified 777 order, so it's very likely these will all be going to Fedex.
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:48 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
From Boeing's May order update:

Volga-Dnepr UK Ltd
747-8F -1x
777F -2x
against:

new orders:
UPS 747-8F +1x
Unidentified Customer(s) 777F +x2

Boeing also sold 5x 767F on the same date as the Unidentified 777 order, so it's very likely these will all be going to Fedex.


I thought the 777Fs were going to the customer who ordered the 777X/787s? Or is this a different order?
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:51 pm

Ishrion wrote:
I thought the 777Fs were going to the customer who ordered the 777X/787s? Or is this a different order?


You are correct that the two Volga-Dnepr NTU 777F are being packaged with a new 787 and 777-9 order for an airline customer.

FedEx ordered one 767-300F, so odd they would also order five more as a UFO. Why not order all six together?

As expected, UPS is the customer for the Volga-Dnepr NTU 747-8F that is currently in ABC Cargo colors. So perhaps they are also planning to start ordering more 767-300F (they still have six left from their existing order)? Or is Amazon now ready to start ordering new-build freighters?
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:03 pm

It doesn't have to be strange, Fedex placed their identified 767 order on 01-May-2020. The unidentified deal for 2x 777F and 5x 767F was placed on 29-May-2020.

The 1st one could have been a regular option, the May 29 deal one a 2nd deal with Boeing for the ABC 777F + some extra 767 thrown into it.

The market is very volatile right now, we should not rely too much on logic or think that any rumor for any new order will actually turn into reality at the end of the month.

So my guess is still Fedex but we just have to wait and see what will happen with these orders.
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:08 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
The 1st one could have been a regular option (conversion by FedEx and) the May 29 deal one a 2nd deal with Boeing for the ABC 777F + some extra 767 thrown into it.


The court filings explicitly stated that the two Volga-Dnepr NTU 777Fs were being re-sold to "Customer B" and that "Customer B" was an existing 777 and 787 passenger customer and that "Customer B" would also be placing an order for an unidentified number of additional 787s as well as a new order for 777-9s.

So it is not possible for FedEx to be "Customer B" and therefore the customer for those two Volga-Dnepr NTU 777Fs. That, of course, does not preclude them from being the customer for the UFO 767-300Fs and a possible reason for that might be because they have yet to file a public SEC notice for the order.
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:21 pm

Dominic Gates of The Seattle Times is reporting that he believes UPS is the customer for the five UFO 767-300Fs.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... delivered/
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:45 pm

Hidden in the Seattle Times article:

"UPS took the 747-8 jumbo jet order that was previously ordered by Volga and is set for delivery soon. However, it also canceled one of its previous orders for the same plane that was scheduled for later delivery, so the net impact is still one order lost to the 747 order book."

So UPS's commitment to the 747-8 remains at 28. I suppose the fact they cancelled one 747 means they have no interest in seeing production continue as was recently speculated?
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:23 pm

flyPIT wrote:
So UPS's commitment to the 747-8 remains at 28. I suppose the fact they cancelled one 747 means they have no interest in seeing production continue as was recently speculated?


Unsure. There have been rumors that UPS might be taking the remainder of Volga-Dnepr's NTUs as well as placing additional orders on top of that. So in theory, Boeing could have four open 747-8F production slots (UPSx1 | Volga-Dneprx3) they can remarket.

I commented on this in the open thread where we have been discussing the future of the 747-8F program: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1446803
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:52 pm

The 2 B77Fs seem to be taken up by China Southern

https://cargofacts.com/allposts/busines ... ty-crunch/
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:01 pm

behramjee wrote:
The 2 B77Fs seem to be taken up by China Southern

https://cargofacts.com/allposts/busines ... ty-crunch/

I believe those are from China Southern’s 77F order (conversion from 77W) from last year, not the Volga-Dnepr frames. They were always suppose to get 2 in 2020.
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:26 pm

behramjee wrote:
The 2 B77Fs seem to be taken up by China Southern

Polot wrote:
I believe those are from China Southern’s 77F order (conversion from 77W) from last year, not the Volga-Dnepr frames. They were always suppose to get 2 in 2020.


Correct, sir. :)

China Southern took delivery of two 777F on 22 May 2020 which is the 30th and 31st 777 deliveries and accounts for all 31 777 family orders they have made to date.
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:03 pm

My bet in is on SQ for the new package deal.
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:11 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
So wait a minute. Pre-Covid they couldn't afford them. Post-Covid, the freight/cargo market has turned, and now they realize they could turn a profit with them and are now pissed at Boeing? Makes perfect sense!

Or? Did they JUST figure out they weren't going to get any of their Money back? and their Payments were forfeit?
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:48 pm

Stitch wrote:
Dominic Gates of The Seattle Times is reporting that he believes UPS is the customer for the five UFO 767-300Fs.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... delivered/


Glad to see UPS continuing to grow and add new aircraft.
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:43 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
So wait a minute. Pre-Covid they couldn't afford them. Post-Covid, the freight/cargo market has turned, and now they realize they could turn a profit with them and are now pissed at Boeing? Makes perfect sense!

strfyr51 wrote:
Or? Did they JUST figure out they weren't going to get any of their Money back? and their Payments were forfeit?


At the 2018 Farnborough Air Show, the Volga-Dnepr signed a Letter of Intent to order five 747-8F and 29 777F (which would go to CargoLogicHoldings). Funding for the purchases was said to be coming from Russia’s Sberbank, though there was some doubt amongst industry experts whether Sberbank was willing to fund such a large purchase of Western aircraft.

An "industry source" at the time said Boeing had secured sufficient parts to produce 20 747-8F (14 for UPS's 2018 order, 5 for Volga-Dnepr's LoI and 1 spare).

At the end of 2018, Volga-Dnepr placed a firm order for one 747-8F in mid-December and placed a second order for three at the end of December.

Volga-Dnepr's financial performance deteriorated throughout 2019 due to a sharp drop in cargo demand year-on-year. The group also decided not to renew a military airlift contract with NATO that expired at the end of 2018, has experienced issues keeping the An-124 fleet airworthy (impacting the number of contracts it can service) and losing seasoned pilots and management staff. In August, Volga-Dnepr Group decided to restructure it's management team and by September, the Group was rumored to be USD200 million in debt and not paying its employees.

In June of 2019, Volga-Dnepr firmed 9 of the 29 777F they signed an LoI for at Farnborough. The remaining 20 appear to have been allowed to lapse. Of the nine they ordered, Volga-Dnepr entered into a sale and lease-back agreement with Dubai Aerospace Industries in August of 2019 for the first three to be delivered.

In January of 2020, Volga-Dnepr informed Boeing that they could not make the remaining payments on VQ-BIO and for them to re-market the plane. By then the frame was already preparing to roll out of the factory and start flight testing. It was subsequently flown to PDX in mid-February and painted in AirBridgeCargo colors. In February, they informed Boeing they would also not be taking the first three 777Fs (all three of which they had intended to re-sell to DAE and then lease back).

The above is a matter of public record.

The below is my speculation.

With their financial problems, I believe Volga-Dnepr could not afford to make the final delivery payment for VQ-BIO. I also believe that Boeing was still hoping they could maybe deliver to them (perhaps via third-party financing or Boeing Capital Corporation lease). This could explain why Boeing decided to paint the frame in ABC colors rather than all-white. We know Boeing and Volga-Dnepr had a meeting in February, and I expect this was one of the topics discussed. But a deal could not be reached, so Boeing proceeded with re-marketing it, eventually selling it to UPS.

I am also inclined to believe that Dubai Aerospace Enterprises pulled out of their agreement to buy the first three 777Fs and lease them back to Volga-Dnepr whether due to DAE's own financial issues (if any) or because they feared Volga-Dnepr would default on their lease agreement once they got the money from DAE sometime between August 2019 and February 2020 and I also believe that Volga-Dnepr could not find new financing in time for the first major payments coming due on the first 777F (L/N 1657 C/N 66626) to enter the factory nor the other two. So they walked away from them during the February meeting and Boeing proceeded to re-market them, as well.

I would expect that Volga-Dnepr is unlikely to take the other six 777F they have on order.
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:45 am

Stitch wrote:
An "industry source" at the time said Boeing had secured sufficient parts to produce 20 747-8F (14 for UPS's 2018 order, 5 for Volga-Dnepr's LoI and 1 spare).



Thanks Stitch. I too had heard that Boeing had purchased the major parts from Triumph for an extra "spare" frame as well.

Have a great day,
 
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:39 pm

Thanks, Stitch, for the great detective work!

2175301 wrote:
Stitch wrote:
An "industry source" at the time said Boeing had secured sufficient parts to produce 20 747-8F (14 for UPS's 2018 order, 5 for Volga-Dnepr's LoI and 1 spare).

Thanks Stitch. I too had heard that Boeing had purchased the major parts from Triumph for an extra "spare" frame as well.

Yes, they are storing them in the same warehouse as the 757 tooling! :biggrin:

Seriously, we now have warehouses somewhere with as many as 6 747-8Fs worth of spare parts, the major tooling to make more 747s, and the legendary 757 tooling as well. The accountants must love that.
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:00 pm

Revelation wrote:
Thanks, Stitch, for the great detective work!

2175301 wrote:
Stitch wrote:
An "industry source" at the time said Boeing had secured sufficient parts to produce 20 747-8F (14 for UPS's 2018 order, 5 for Volga-Dnepr's LoI and 1 spare).

Thanks Stitch. I too had heard that Boeing had purchased the major parts from Triumph for an extra "spare" frame as well.

Yes, they are storing them in the same warehouse as the 757 tooling! :biggrin:

Seriously, we now have warehouses somewhere with as many as 6 747-8Fs worth of spare parts, the major tooling to make more 747s, and the legendary 757 tooling as well. The accountants must love that.

Last I looked, Triumph was warehousing the bodies for the unbuilt 748Fs. Eventually, Boeing will have to either build or warehouse the parts. But as it looks to be one aircraft minus engines, APU, avionics, and other subsystems and parts that could economically be delayed, it seems like a wise risk for Boeing to take. If sold, a nice sale. If not sold, most of the cost is recovered.

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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:14 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Thanks, Stitch, for the great detective work!

2175301 wrote:
Thanks Stitch. I too had heard that Boeing had purchased the major parts from Triumph for an extra "spare" frame as well.

Yes, they are storing them in the same warehouse as the 757 tooling! :biggrin:

Seriously, we now have warehouses somewhere with as many as 6 747-8Fs worth of spare parts, the major tooling to make more 747s, and the legendary 757 tooling as well. The accountants must love that.

Last I looked, Triumph was warehousing the bodies for the unbuilt 748Fs. Eventually, Boeing will have to either build or warehouse the parts. But as it looks to be one aircraft minus engines, APU, avionics, and other subsystems and parts that could economically be delayed, it seems like a wise risk for Boeing to take. If sold, a nice sale. If not sold, most of the cost is recovered.

Lightsaber

So Triumph must have space to store the remaining UPS frames being built along with the 6 spares, that's pretty impressive.

I'm not following on the cost recovery should the 6 frames never be built. Boeing will have spent a lot of money getting these parts built then storing them for years then scrapping them. It's not like they can sell them to anyone.
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:29 pm

Revelation wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Thanks, Stitch, for the great detective work!


Yes, they are storing them in the same warehouse as the 757 tooling! :biggrin:

Seriously, we now have warehouses somewhere with as many as 6 747-8Fs worth of spare parts, the major tooling to make more 747s, and the legendary 757 tooling as well. The accountants must love that.

Last I looked, Triumph was warehousing the bodies for the unbuilt 748Fs. Eventually, Boeing will have to either build or warehouse the parts. But as it looks to be one aircraft minus engines, APU, avionics, and other subsystems and parts that could economically be delayed, it seems like a wise risk for Boeing to take. If sold, a nice sale. If not sold, most of the cost is recovered.

Lightsaber

So Triumph must have space to store the remaining UPS frames being built along with the 6 spares, that's pretty impressive.

I'm not following on the cost recovery should the 6 frames never be built. Boeing will have spent a lot of money getting these parts built then storing them for years then scrapping them. It's not like they can sell them to anyone.


On money spent to get parts built -- wouldn't it be part of milestone payments, in the ordering process? Probably, some money was already paid towards those parts.

Selling those frames -- I have a feeling this could end up a bit like C-17 last batch saga. First, people call Boeing crazy for building white tails. Then, white tail list gets slowly, but steadily converted into firm orders. Finally, there is a single frame sitting unsold, and a procrastinating customer wails of the evil Boeing not accepting the order for three.

Then, there is US government. Boeing still has friends in high places, and if right buttons are pushed, USAF could get very busy inducting 747-8f. As you remember, there is that "lacking strength" in air mobility that's being floated to the press, so six 747-8f could be useful as a supplement; and the type is not new to USAF (cough, VC-25B, cough). Another "wildcard" is the E-4B replacement saga; four airframes could be absorbed there. It's not really hopeless, is it?
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:35 pm

And there is no 757 tooling left. Hasn’t been in years. Boeing destroyed it and wrote it off.
 
fcogafa
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:37 pm

Seriously, we now have warehouses somewhere with as many as 6 747-8Fs worth of spare parts, the major tooling to make more 747s, and the legendary 757 tooling as well. The accountants must love that.


So the 757 tooling still exists contrary to anet folklore? Quick, restart production!
 
TonyClifton
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:41 pm

Revelation wrote:
Thanks, Stitch, for the great detective work!

2175301 wrote:
Stitch wrote:
An "industry source" at the time said Boeing had secured sufficient parts to produce 20 747-8F (14 for UPS's 2018 order, 5 for Volga-Dnepr's LoI and 1 spare).

Thanks Stitch. I too had heard that Boeing had purchased the major parts from Triumph for an extra "spare" frame as well.

Yes, they are storing them in the same warehouse as the 757 tooling! :biggrin:

Seriously, we now have warehouses somewhere with as many as 6 747-8Fs worth of spare parts, the major tooling to make more 747s, and the legendary 757 tooling as well. The accountants must love that.

I think I remember that warehouse, from the end of Indiana Jones.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:25 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
Then, there is US government. Boeing still has friends in high places, and if right buttons are pushed, USAF could get very busy inducting 747-8f. As you remember, there is that "lacking strength" in air mobility that's being floated to the press, so six 747-8f could be useful as a supplement; and the type is not new to USAF (cough, VC-25B, cough). Another "wildcard" is the E-4B replacement saga; four airframes could be absorbed there. It's not really hopeless, is it?


If the USAF wanted to "help" Boeing, they would have bought two new 747-8I for the VC-25B program rather than buy the Transaero NTUs. They also would have ordered additional 747-8I frames for the E-4B replacement.

At this point, I am not sure the E-4B will be replaced, but if it is, I really think it will be based on the 767-2C platform shared with the KC-46A.

I also do not see a 747-8F buy for strategic lift. Much easier to just keep leasing commercial when and where they need it.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:21 pm

So as a final follow-up, the first Volga-Dnepr 777 freighter NTU has returned to PAE from painting and it is in China Southern colors. So China Southern is the "Customer B" referenced in the legal filings.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:54 pm

Stitch wrote:
So as a final follow-up, the first Volga-Dnepr 777 freighter NTU has returned to PAE from painting and it is in China Southern colors. So China Southern is the "Customer B" referenced in the legal filings.


You mean China Eastern, right?

Kinda made the same typo here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1447223&p=22290685#p22290685
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:20 am

Revelation wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Thanks, Stitch, for the great detective work!


Yes, they are storing them in the same warehouse as the 757 tooling! :biggrin:

Seriously, we now have warehouses somewhere with as many as 6 747-8Fs worth of spare parts, the major tooling to make more 747s, and the legendary 757 tooling as well. The accountants must love that.

Last I looked, Triumph was warehousing the bodies for the unbuilt 748Fs. Eventually, Boeing will have to either build or warehouse the parts. But as it looks to be one aircraft minus engines, APU, avionics, and other subsystems and parts that could economically be delayed, it seems like a wise risk for Boeing to take. If sold, a nice sale. If not sold, most of the cost is recovered.

Lightsaber

So Triumph must have space to store the remaining UPS frames being built along with the 6 spares, that's pretty impressive.

I'm not following on the cost recovery should the 6 frames never be built. Boeing will have spent a lot of money getting these parts built then storing them for years then scrapping them. It's not like they can sell them to anyone.

Cost recovery is the parts. Yes there would be a loss, but an aircraft is worth a lot as parts, in particular brand new engines and nacelles.

Lightsaber
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747classic
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Re: Volga-Dnepr suing Boeing over freighters it couldnt commit to but now wants

Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:08 pm

The second Volga-Dnepr NTU 777F N50217 (VQ-BAK) made her first flight at June 24th.
See Matt Cawby's Paine Field blog of 24th June : http://kpae.blogspot.com/2020/06/paine- ... ne-24.html
Detailed picture of N50217 : http://www.paineairport.com/kpae18441w.htm
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.

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