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Max Q
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UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sat May 30, 2020 11:21 am

With CVD 19 I imagine there are a lot more charter flights undertaken by these cargo carriers


Curious as to what is the normal percentage of scheduled vs unscheduled flights in their respective operations
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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32andBelow
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Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sat May 30, 2020 12:02 pm

Don’t these airlines just book freight then fly whatever they need to?
 
Max Q
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Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sat May 30, 2020 1:44 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Don’t these airlines just book freight then fly whatever they need to?



Goes to my question, I think they do have a substantial amount of scheduled service though
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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TropicalSky
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Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sat May 30, 2020 1:48 pm

Atlas is the only operator among that list with dedicated pax charter services
 
Dalmd88
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Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sat May 30, 2020 1:58 pm

I would think most of UPS and FedEx is scheduled.

Atlas on the other hand is likely higher on the chartered cargo work. I believe they do a lot of consolidated freight work on regular scheduled flights with greater mix of chartered than the other two.
 
MO11
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Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sat May 30, 2020 2:05 pm

Max Q wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Don’t these airlines just book freight then fly whatever they need to?



Goes to my question, I think they do have a substantial amount of scheduled service though


UPS and FedEx have their own networks to support; particularly with today's demand, there is very little wiggle room to support third party charters (extra sections, yes).

Atlas' main operations are ACMI, CMI, and charter flying. ACMI/CMI might be looked at as scheduled service since the companies that charter Atlas are running a published schedule. It does run a small scheduled freight network to South America. http://www.atlasair.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/AA_SAMER_insert_083019.pdf
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sat May 30, 2020 2:07 pm

TropicalSky wrote:
Atlas is the only operator among that list with dedicated pax charter services

I think the OP is referring to ad hoc freight services.
 
HPRamper
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Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sat May 30, 2020 2:17 pm

FedEx is running a LOT of USPS charters right now. Post office volume is bonkers at the moment. My market is running an additional flight most mornings, including weekends, that is pure 100% USPS freight. Earlier on there were also PPE charters going to China - and then in the other direction a month later. Those have tapered off a bit since the surge.
 
32andBelow
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Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sat May 30, 2020 2:29 pm

While FedEx and ups has a core schedule it’s still adjusted up or down as needed. They only “publish” a schedule about 2 weeks out.
 
Boeing727
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Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sat May 30, 2020 2:29 pm

UPS did add over 200 flights in April including charters...

https://esellercafe.com/ups-added-over- ... f-efforts/
 
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UPlog
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Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sat May 30, 2020 2:56 pm

I would say well over 95 percent of what we operate at UPS is scheduled flying. Its quite rare to see pop up last minute flying, though aircraft substitutions can happen occasionally based on demand.
Like passenger airlines our schedules are published months out.
I fly your boxes
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sat May 30, 2020 2:57 pm

Just talked to a buddy of mine who's a pilot at UPS. He said he didn't have any numbers offhand, but the vast majority of flying is scheduled there. They are of course running some charters, and doing a lot of upgauging to the MD. Other than that, they've been much heavier for this time of year — most of their weights are what they see at peak, and the 747s are super full coming out of Asia (as can be expected). They're also hauling a lot of stuff for FEMA.
 
wjcandee
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Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sat May 30, 2020 4:28 pm

UPS is the prime contractor with FEMA on the Air Bridge. They are coordinating the response from other carriers, as well as the warehousing/logistics side of things in terms of moving the FEMA PPE to where it is supposed to go as well as replenishing the stockpile and warehousing stuff as it comes in (probably better than the gov't itself would). FedEx is a major flying subcontractor on the project. Lots of 9xxx FedEx flights from Asia on MD11s that probably otherwise would be parked. UPS also basically hired anyone with a 747. National Cargo, Western Global (whose fleet it has been fun to watch break every few flights), and Sky Lease (whose two 747-400-factory-Fs have been flying their tails off with an unbelievable utilization, tempo and dispatch reliability rate). Kalitta and Atlas are also heavily-involved. Governments, freight-brokers, etc., are all seeking flying-metal to move stuff that normally would float its way here.
 
wjcandee
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Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sat May 30, 2020 4:33 pm

HPRamper wrote:
FedEx is running a LOT of USPS charters right now. Post office volume is bonkers at the moment. My market is running an additional flight most mornings, including weekends, that is pure 100% USPS freight. Earlier on there were also PPE charters going to China - and then in the other direction a month later. Those have tapered off a bit since the surge.


Yeah, the combination of many more USPS packages (a lot of which comes from Ebay sellers, who were selling like crazy during the shutdown) with the absence of pax belly space domestically has to be putting a huge strain on FedEx. Priority Mail Express and Priority Mail are currently very-poor-reliability products (like 12 days for a Priority Mail 2-day package to NY from Cali or 8 days for one from Michigan), which appeared to be happening because the things kept waiting to get on a plane.
 
xjet
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Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sat May 30, 2020 5:32 pm

For UPS Flight numbers:
3 digit and 1,xxx - Next day air
2,xxx - Normal 2nd day air flights
3,xxx - extra section to normally served city
4,xxx - charter
5,xxx - USPS
6,xxx - Charter
9,xxx - Reposition
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sun May 31, 2020 1:45 am

Finally a thread in my wheelhouse.

Like wjcandee stated earlier Project Air Bridge is the primary "charter" work that is going through the 5X system right now. They aren't flying usual UPS work (packages), but they are contracted out to carry cargo on behalf of UPS and the US Government.

As for in network charters, there aren't any unless they've been dropped in over the last few days. Just like the passenger airlines there are very specific times and circumstances in which the airline can use leased lift. Really outside of peak it's extremely difficult due to the labor agreement with the pilots. The only real exception is the feeder aircraft that go from gateways to more remote areas.

There have been increased flights on our own metal, however. People are shopping online right now like it is Christmas.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
jetblueguy22
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Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sun May 31, 2020 1:49 am

xjet wrote:
For UPS Flight numbers:
3 digit and 1,xxx - Next day air
2,xxx - Normal 2nd day air flights
3,xxx - extra section to normally served city
4,xxx - charter
5,xxx - USPS
6,xxx - Charter
9,xxx - Reposition

A little more specifically...
0-999 generally are international international 1DA flights with a few exceptions.
1000-1999 Scheduled Next Day Flights
2000-2999 Scheduled Two Day Flights
3000-3999 Extra Section Next Day Flights
4000-4999 Extra Section Two Day Flights
5000-5999 Dedicated USPS flights
6000-6999 Cargo
9000-9999 Repo/Maintenance
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sun May 31, 2020 1:54 am

32andBelow wrote:
While FedEx and ups has a core schedule it’s still adjusted up or down as needed. They only “publish” a schedule about 2 weeks out.

Can't speak for FX, but my schedule at 5X is set through August.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
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texas145
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Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sun May 31, 2020 2:47 am

It's anecdotal, but I flew an empty 767 from MEM-ONT just to pick up USPS mail, and bring it back to MEM the next morning. Lots of extra flights are headed out, and the reserve guys are getting worked over, haha.
A clear conscience is a great pillow.
 
HPRamper
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sun May 31, 2020 5:25 pm

wjcandee wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
FedEx is running a LOT of USPS charters right now. Post office volume is bonkers at the moment. My market is running an additional flight most mornings, including weekends, that is pure 100% USPS freight. Earlier on there were also PPE charters going to China - and then in the other direction a month later. Those have tapered off a bit since the surge.


Yeah, the combination of many more USPS packages (a lot of which comes from Ebay sellers, who were selling like crazy during the shutdown) with the absence of pax belly space domestically has to be putting a huge strain on FedEx. Priority Mail Express and Priority Mail are currently very-poor-reliability products (like 12 days for a Priority Mail 2-day package to NY from Cali or 8 days for one from Michigan), which appeared to be happening because the things kept waiting to get on a plane.

Indeed.
On a daily basis, the USPS contractor here calls us asking for more space and/or more time to get us the freight. Sometimes we can accommodate it, most of the time we can't. Sometimes they call and say they have an entire truckload of Priority pulling in the gate. We have to tell them sorry, the planes are already full up. That freight sits. We take anything we have space for, but a full plane is a full plane. We go 100% volume-wise. On my shift, in my market, we carry more postal product than our own, and it isn't close.

Our flight schedules are set about two months out, but charters can be added any time including less than 24 hours prior. We can leave work one morning with everything normal and the next morning we find an extra aircraft to load sitting on our ramp. Lately however these charters have become a near-daily thing, and they are planned more like a week or two in advance.
 
wjcandee
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sun May 31, 2020 7:36 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
xjet wrote:
For UPS Flight numbers:
3 digit and 1,xxx - Next day air
2,xxx - Normal 2nd day air flights
3,xxx - extra section to normally served city
4,xxx - charter
5,xxx - USPS
6,xxx - Charter
9,xxx - Reposition

A little more specifically...
0-999 generally are international international 1DA flights with a few exceptions.
1000-1999 Scheduled Next Day Flights
2000-2999 Scheduled Two Day Flights
3000-3999 Extra Section Next Day Flights
4000-4999 Extra Section Two Day Flights
5000-5999 Dedicated USPS flights
6000-6999 Cargo
9000-9999 Repo/Maintenance


UPS has a lot of flights through ANC with two-digit flight numbers. Does this nomenclature still apply? So UPS68 is a cargo flight, and UPS6085 is also a cargo flight?
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3441
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sun May 31, 2020 7:42 pm

wjcandee wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
xjet wrote:
For UPS Flight numbers:
3 digit and 1,xxx - Next day air
2,xxx - Normal 2nd day air flights
3,xxx - extra section to normally served city
4,xxx - charter
5,xxx - USPS
6,xxx - Charter
9,xxx - Reposition

A little more specifically...
0-999 generally are international international 1DA flights with a few exceptions.
1000-1999 Scheduled Next Day Flights
2000-2999 Scheduled Two Day Flights
3000-3999 Extra Section Next Day Flights
4000-4999 Extra Section Two Day Flights
5000-5999 Dedicated USPS flights
6000-6999 Cargo
9000-9999 Repo/Maintenance


UPS has a lot of flights through ANC with two-digit flight numbers. Does this nomenclature still apply? So UPS68 is a cargo flight, and UPS6085 is also a cargo flight?

UPS68 is technically UPS068, making it a Next Day flight. UPS6085 on the other hand would indeed be a cargo flight.

To further complicate it, UPS68 could still have cargo (non package delivery volume) on it. But the primary function of the flight is to move packages and cargo comes secondary.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8772
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Sun May 31, 2020 8:05 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
A little more specifically...
0-999 generally are international international 1DA flights with a few exceptions.
1000-1999 Scheduled Next Day Flights
2000-2999 Scheduled Two Day Flights
3000-3999 Extra Section Next Day Flights
4000-4999 Extra Section Two Day Flights
5000-5999 Dedicated USPS flights
6000-6999 Cargo
9000-9999 Repo/Maintenance


UPS has a lot of flights through ANC with two-digit flight numbers. Does this nomenclature still apply? So UPS68 is a cargo flight, and UPS6085 is also a cargo flight?

UPS68 is technically UPS068, making it a Next Day flight. UPS6085 on the other hand would indeed be a cargo flight.

To further complicate it, UPS68 could still have cargo (non package delivery volume) on it. But the primary function of the flight is to move packages and cargo comes secondary.


Thank you! My brain is a little fried; I see that you put that 0-999 is International 1 Day, and 68 is between 0 and 999. Thank you!!!
 
xjet
Posts: 423
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:09 am

Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:26 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
xjet wrote:
For UPS Flight numbers:
3 digit and 1,xxx - Next day air
2,xxx - Normal 2nd day air flights
3,xxx - extra section to normally served city
4,xxx - charter
5,xxx - USPS
6,xxx - Charter
9,xxx - Reposition

A little more specifically...
0-999 generally are international international 1DA flights with a few exceptions.
1000-1999 Scheduled Next Day Flights
2000-2999 Scheduled Two Day Flights
3000-3999 Extra Section Next Day Flights
4000-4999 Extra Section Two Day Flights
5000-5999 Dedicated USPS flights
6000-6999 Cargo
9000-9999 Repo/Maintenance


It’s not really accurate to say that 3 digit flights are international. Most of the domestic 1DA is 3 digit. Odd numbers out of the hub, and even going into the sort. The flight numbers are geographically assigned. 900s are west coast. E.g. 921/922 is SAN, 904/903 is LAX, 974/973 is PDX. Florida is 13xx. Midwest is 600s, etc.

I don’t know where the exact cutoff is but I think anything less than 500 is international. I don’t know a lot about the regional numbering from the SZX and CGN hubs.
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3441
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:15 pm

xjet wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
xjet wrote:
For UPS Flight numbers:
3 digit and 1,xxx - Next day air
2,xxx - Normal 2nd day air flights
3,xxx - extra section to normally served city
4,xxx - charter
5,xxx - USPS
6,xxx - Charter
9,xxx - Reposition

A little more specifically...
0-999 generally are international international 1DA flights with a few exceptions.
1000-1999 Scheduled Next Day Flights
2000-2999 Scheduled Two Day Flights
3000-3999 Extra Section Next Day Flights
4000-4999 Extra Section Two Day Flights
5000-5999 Dedicated USPS flights
6000-6999 Cargo
9000-9999 Repo/Maintenance


It’s not really accurate to say that 3 digit flights are international. Most of the domestic 1DA is 3 digit. Odd numbers out of the hub, and even going into the sort. The flight numbers are geographically assigned. 900s are west coast. E.g. 921/922 is SAN, 904/903 is LAX, 974/973 is PDX. Florida is 13xx. Midwest is 600s, etc.

I don’t know where the exact cutoff is but I think anything less than 500 is international. I don’t know a lot about the regional numbering from the SZX and CGN hubs.

1-499 are absolutely all international. 500-999 is the exception range, but the majority of the 1DA flights fall into the 1000-1999 range.

1-199 is Asia
200-299 Europe
300-499 Americas/Canada/Mexico

There are west coast flights between 500-999, but most of the network 1DA does start with a 1XXX.

There is even more detail in the flight numbers by area. But it’s too much to type.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
flyguy1
Posts: 1692
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 1999 9:45 am

Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:04 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
xjet wrote:
For UPS Flight numbers:
3 digit and 1,xxx - Next day air
2,xxx - Normal 2nd day air flights
3,xxx - extra section to normally served city
4,xxx - charter
5,xxx - USPS
6,xxx - Charter
9,xxx - Reposition

A little more specifically...
0-999 generally are international international 1DA flights with a few exceptions.
1000-1999 Scheduled Next Day Flights
2000-2999 Scheduled Two Day Flights
3000-3999 Extra Section Next Day Flights
4000-4999 Extra Section Two Day Flights
5000-5999 Dedicated USPS flights
6000-6999 Cargo
9000-9999 Repo/Maintenance



What kind of flying does UPS do for the USPS?
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
2175301
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 11:19 am

Re: UPS / FDX / Atlas scheduled vs charter % ?

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:31 pm

FedEx has a history of doing charters. A company I am currently doing gig work for chartered a FedEx aircraft to get supplies and equipment to a foreign heat exchange repair job in another country (with FedEx handling all the customs and paperwork). They loaded the aircraft in Milwaukee. The company already had the field crew leads in the foreign country. FedEx flew the aircraft to the destination, unloaded and the aircraft went on its way. Then several weeks later flew in again to pick up all the returning tools and equipment and returned them to Milwaukee.

I'm told by the company that they were surprised how easy to use and effective FedEx was for their project. Definitely on their "will use again" list if there is a similar time critical project in the future.

Have a great day

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