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zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:42 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

Hmm that puts that theory to bed then.


Could be that they have pre-committed cycles/hours on these leased frames that they wont to use up before being returned to lease companies.

Where they could be saving hours/cycles on the owned fleet, to retain value on them.


You could well be right there, I’m quite sure they were 10 year leases and were new in 2011 so expire in 2021.


They were due to leave around 2021/22, as the domestic a321NEO’s arrived.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:14 am

richcandy wrote:
Sorry if this is a silly questions. I follow aircraft that I have flown on flightradar24, yes I know childish!

One of them ZK-OXK hasn't flown for a few days does anyone know why. It last flew on the 14th and its next flight isn't scheduled till the 20th.

Alex


It’s not a silly question but the reality is demand is around 40% of what it was pre covid, low utilisation and some aircraft haven’t flown in weeks or more.

Plenty of people follow aircraft on FR24, myself included at times.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:17 am

zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:

Could be that they have pre-committed cycles/hours on these leased frames that they wont to use up before being returned to lease companies.

Where they could be saving hours/cycles on the owned fleet, to retain value on them.


You could well be right there, I’m quite sure they were 10 year leases and were new in 2011 so expire in 2021.


They were due to leave around 2021/22, as the domestic a321NEO’s arrived.


I think the NEO’s have been deferred even before Covid? They may well defer them further while still letting the existing leases ones go as the leases expire, there is International fleet they can use A321s and 789s domestically if need be.
 
HLZCPH
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:39 pm

NZ516 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
TheLifehouse wrote:
ZK-OJH is now at CHC with titles painted over, as well as a possible Q300 without titles parked up near where the old ex Qantas 737 is.


Wasn’t OJH, one of the last remaining International a320CEO’s?


There is still six other international A320CEO's remaining in NZ along with ZKOJH. Many won't be flying again I expect:
ZKOJB
ZKOJD
ZKOJF
ZKOJI
ZKOJK
ZKOJM


I think ZK-OJI and ZK-OJM are company owned and were destined to become domestic birds?
 
Fuling
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:53 pm

Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but did NZ announce the switch from EZE to GRU?
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:26 pm

Fuling wrote:
Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but did NZ announce the switch from EZE to GRU?


They didn’t, EZE isn’t returning post Covid.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:15 pm

zkncj wrote:
Fuling wrote:
Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but did NZ announce the switch from EZE to GRU?


They didn’t, EZE isn’t returning post Covid.


The switch? Not likely in these times and as Zk-ncj says EZE is not returning post covid. While in normal times Brazil is probably the bigger market, at some point we’ll down the line you would think South America will return, maybe then now knowing the capability of the 789 they might well do GRU/GIG, weather they decide to serve a more southern or western port in South America remains to be seen, EZE or LIM maybe? I’m talking several years out.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:35 pm

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/new ... d=12341164

EK to return to AKL from July 1st 3x weekly. Aircraft type TBC, I would have to think a 77L.
 
Fuling
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:35 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Fuling wrote:
Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but did NZ announce the switch from EZE to GRU?


They didn’t, EZE isn’t returning post Covid.


The switch? Not likely in these times and as Zk-ncj says EZE is not returning post covid. While in normal times Brazil is probably the bigger market, at some point we’ll down the line you would think South America will return, maybe then now knowing the capability of the 789 they might well do GRU/GIG, weather they decide to serve a more southern or western port in South America remains to be seen, EZE or LIM maybe? I’m talking several years out.


Thanks for that. Someone must have been playing with Wikipedia (I know, I know) so I wanted to double check.

ZK-NBT wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12341164

EK to return to AKL from July 1st 3x weekly. Aircraft type TBC, I would have to think a 77L.


Yes it will be a B77L until 31 Aug, then A388. RO suggests it will be daily though.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-10jun20/
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:04 am

Fuling wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:

They didn’t, EZE isn’t returning post Covid.


The switch? Not likely in these times and as Zk-ncj says EZE is not returning post covid. While in normal times Brazil is probably the bigger market, at some point we’ll down the line you would think South America will return, maybe then now knowing the capability of the 789 they might well do GRU/GIG, weather they decide to serve a more southern or western port in South America remains to be seen, EZE or LIM maybe? I’m talking several years out.


Thanks for that. Someone must have been playing with Wikipedia (I know, I know) so I wanted to double check.

ZK-NBT wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12341164

EK to return to AKL from July 1st 3x weekly. Aircraft type TBC, I would have to think a 77L.


Yes it will be a B77L until 31 Aug, then A388. RO suggests it will be daily though.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-10jun20/


Re EK, I have seen routes online aswell, their schedule is pretty ambitious although has reduced each time it’s updated, I don’t think it has updated again yet to reflect the latest changes which are happening weekly or daily in some cases.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:30 am

With the Tasman Bubble, and transiting passengers I wonder how that would work?

Surely transiting passengers would be prohibited from Tasman Bubble services? Point being the current 3x COVID19 cases in New Zealand. All transited via Australia in the past week, and connected onto NZ flights.

Surely this would have to stop? Mixing bubble passengers, with non-bubble passengers.
 
AMSAKL
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:02 am

zkncj wrote:
With the Tasman Bubble, and transiting passengers I wonder how that would work?

Surely transiting passengers would be prohibited from Tasman Bubble services? Point being the current 3x COVID19 cases in New Zealand. All transited via Australia in the past week, and connected onto NZ flights.

Surely this would have to stop? Mixing bubble passengers, with non-bubble passengers.


I was thinking about this too. Surely there can't be mixing of passengers in fact it really does add a whole lot of a unnecessary risk to passengers flying between Australia and New Zealand currently not to mention hotel quarantine, so low risk countries in one hotel and high risk in another, not sure how this works at the moment?

With SQ flying and EK resuming shortly there should be a requirement to only be able to transit through these points to New Zealand at this time.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:42 am

Presumably only those pax who live in Australia or who have already spent quarantine in Australia would be allowed. Then they could enter NZ without further quarantine. Means that we’d have to synchronise quarantine rules, that’s all.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
AMSAKL
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:12 am

DavidByrne wrote:
Presumably only those pax who live in Australia or who have already spent quarantine in Australia would be allowed. Then they could enter NZ without further quarantine. Means that we’d have to synchronise quarantine rules, that’s all.


Yep that would work, hotel quarantine bills will just have to be passed on accordingly.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:23 am

DavidByrne wrote:
Presumably only those pax who live in Australia or who have already spent quarantine in Australia would be allowed. Then they could enter NZ without further quarantine. Means that we’d have to synchronise quarantine rules, that’s all.


Yes this is how I see it working too.
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NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:56 am

zkncj wrote:
With the Tasman Bubble, and transiting passengers I wonder how that would work?

Surely transiting passengers would be prohibited from Tasman Bubble services? Point being the current 3x COVID19 cases in New Zealand. All transited via Australia in the past week, and connected onto NZ flights.

Surely this would have to stop? Mixing bubble passengers, with non-bubble passengers.



Yes, I thought I had covered this before.

It also means airports can't mix and mingle quarantined and non quarantined passengers. In a normal world, passengers inbound DOH-MEL-AKL (a good example) could roam freely in MEL. However when there's a bubble going, those passengers will need to be separated in MEL and flown on a bubble only flight.

It's very much like secure and non-secure areas but in this case, there's now COVID safe and COVID non-safe areas.

That's going to be one of the major logistical challenges.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:23 am

NZ6 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
With the Tasman Bubble, and transiting passengers I wonder how that would work?

Surely transiting passengers would be prohibited from Tasman Bubble services? Point being the current 3x COVID19 cases in New Zealand. All transited via Australia in the past week, and connected onto NZ flights.

Surely this would have to stop? Mixing bubble passengers, with non-bubble passengers.



Yes, I thought I had covered this before.

It also means airports can't mix and mingle quarantined and non quarantined passengers. In a normal world, passengers inbound DOH-MEL-AKL (a good example) could roam freely in MEL. However when there's a bubble going, those passengers will need to be separated in MEL and flown on a bubble only flight.

It's very much like secure and non-secure areas but in this case, there's now COVID safe and COVID non-safe areas.

That's going to be one of the major logistical challenges.


Some airports it would be an pretty simple fix to spilt the two types of passengers, others could be challenging like AKL.

While there is two piers there isn’t really away to split them off from each other, with out allot of temporary walls etc.

Airports like SYD/BNE/CHC/WLG should be an pretty simple fix.
 
anstar
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:27 am

Its a little how it works no win Australia. MEL/SYD are taking most of the international arrivals - putting them into 14 day qaurantine on arrival and then they are free to get on a domestic connection. I guess AUS/NZ would do they same. You quarantine at first point of entry.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:31 am

https://medium.com/@nzdefenceforce/rnzaf-returns-seasonal-workers-to-vanuatu-7a2f9f81f4f4

RNZAF operated its first of 8 flights today with there 757s, to take 1000 people back to VLI.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:49 am

zkncj wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
With the Tasman Bubble, and transiting passengers I wonder how that would work?

Surely transiting passengers would be prohibited from Tasman Bubble services? Point being the current 3x COVID19 cases in New Zealand. All transited via Australia in the past week, and connected onto NZ flights.

Surely this would have to stop? Mixing bubble passengers, with non-bubble passengers.



Yes, I thought I had covered this before.

It also means airports can't mix and mingle quarantined and non quarantined passengers. In a normal world, passengers inbound DOH-MEL-AKL (a good example) could roam freely in MEL. However when there's a bubble going, those passengers will need to be separated in MEL and flown on a bubble only flight.

It's very much like secure and non-secure areas but in this case, there's now COVID safe and COVID non-safe areas.

That's going to be one of the major logistical challenges.


Some airports it would be an pretty simple fix to spilt the two types of passengers, others could be challenging like AKL.

While there is two piers there isn’t really away to split them off from each other, with out allot of temporary walls etc.

Airports like SYD/BNE/CHC/WLG should be an pretty simple fix.


You need gates, check-in, customers, security, baggage claim, walkways, airline/airport/customers/security staff considerations, toilets, disability considerations. PPE, delays/diversions/crew fire and emergency backup and it needs to all be WATER tight.

On the surface it's pretty simply but in practice the layers of complexity get deep quickly.

None are show stoppers but there's a lot of logistics to work through.
 
nz2
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:28 am

Wondering why my flight to Fiji in November is still showing a 772 ? It was changed earlier from the 773. Not entirely sure we will get to go, we have already delayed it from earlier this month to a time we hoped would have seen the Islands opened up again....
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:58 am

nz2 wrote:
Wondering why my flight to Fiji in November is still showing a 772 ? It was changed earlier from the 773. Not entirely sure we will get to go, we have already delayed it from earlier this month to a time we hoped would have seen the Islands opened up again....


Schedules won’t be updated beyond October, though I haven’t looked, we don’t yet know what is happening tomorrow. Hopefully you get to go.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:32 pm

Interesting conversation with an A320 pilot the other day... they’ve got the A321NEO operating domestically at the moment and apparently when not fully loaded they’re burning about the same amount of fuel as A320s.
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:58 am

Zkpilot wrote:
Interesting conversation with an A320 pilot the other day... they’ve got the A321NEO operating domestically at the moment and apparently when not fully loaded they’re burning about the same amount of fuel as A320s.


I think the days of the a320CEO’s will be getting number, and probably will end up becoming A321NEO less often.

It’s been proven over the last two weeks that, ZQN can handle them domesticly.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:08 am

zkncj wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Interesting conversation with an A320 pilot the other day... they’ve got the A321NEO operating domestically at the moment and apparently when not fully loaded they’re burning about the same amount of fuel as A320s.


I think the days of the a320CEO’s will be getting number, and probably will end up becoming A321NEO less often.

It’s been proven over the last two weeks that, ZQN can handle them domesticly.


What is the split of owned vs leased on the A320CEO Sharklet fleet? Oldest is only 7 years old so unless they can end any leases early I don’t think they will go anywhere and the owned ones, not sure I would see anyone looking at buying.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:33 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
What is the split of owned vs leased on the A320CEO Sharklet fleet? Oldest is only 7 years old so unless they can end any leases early I don’t think they will go anywhere and the owned ones, not sure I would see anyone looking at buying.


Unless any have been financed recently, all of the A320CEO Sharklet fleet was owned. The domesitc A320CEO's that are leased are the 4x 2011 make without Sharkets.
 
avier
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:36 am

This question may have been asked a lot before, but wanted some insights; if VA's bidding process doesn't go well or requires massive downsizing, wouldn't it be wise for Air NZ to consider entering the domestic market of Aus? It would be more lucrative then with mostly one major flag carrier and another smaller and weak competitor just out of restructuring. What stops NZ from considering this route? If Qantas, through JQ, can scoop up some of the kiwi domestic market then why can't NZ do the same in Aus?
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:48 am

avier wrote:
This question may have been asked a lot before, but wanted some insights; if VA's bidding process doesn't go well or requires massive downsizing, wouldn't it be wise for Air NZ to consider entering the domestic market of Aus? It would be more lucrative then with mostly one major flag carrier and another smaller and weak competitor just out of restructuring. What stops NZ from considering this route? If Qantas, through JQ, can scoop up some of the kiwi domestic market then why can't NZ do the same in Aus?


They can fly domestic in Australia, the real question is even without VA why would they?

NZ is a different market, JQ can run a small fleet in the main trunk and do ok and keep NZ honest, I feel like it would need a lot more from NZ to keep QF honest given the size of the market compared to NZ, QF would imo be to strong, not worth NZ’s trouble imo. They codeshare now anyway.

I would guess for NZ to compete on say SYD/MEL/BNE/PER/CBR/ADL they would need 10-12 aircraft to offer high frequency on SYD/MEL/BNE atleast.
 
avier
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:24 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
avier wrote:
This question may have been asked a lot before, but wanted some insights; if VA's bidding process doesn't go well or requires massive downsizing, wouldn't it be wise for Air NZ to consider entering the domestic market of Aus? It would be more lucrative then with mostly one major flag carrier and another smaller and weak competitor just out of restructuring. What stops NZ from considering this route? If Qantas, through JQ, can scoop up some of the kiwi domestic market then why can't NZ do the same in Aus?


They can fly domestic in Australia, the real question is even without VA why would they?

NZ is a different market, JQ can run a small fleet in the main trunk and do ok and keep NZ honest, I feel like it would need a lot more from NZ to keep QF honest given the size of the market compared to NZ, QF would imo be to strong, not worth NZ’s trouble imo. They codeshare now anyway.

I would guess for NZ to compete on say SYD/MEL/BNE/PER/CBR/ADL they would need 10-12 aircraft to offer high frequency on SYD/MEL/BNE atleast.


NZ doesn't have to go all out in the domestic Oz market, it wouldn't even be profitable to do so when going regional and such.
They have to do exactly what JQ does in kiwi domestic market i.e to fly only on the trunk routes.
And aren't the trunk routes in Aus domestic extremely lucrative? So much so that VA are currently only operating that while in administration, because those routes make money.
Also, if VA comes out really small post restructuring, precious slots at major Aus airports would be made available for grabs, from those vacated by VA.
Such challenging times can also offer great opportunities for new entrants in a market, where barriers to entry were much higher earlier.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:32 am

avier wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
avier wrote:
This question may have been asked a lot before, but wanted some insights; if VA's bidding process doesn't go well or requires massive downsizing, wouldn't it be wise for Air NZ to consider entering the domestic market of Aus? It would be more lucrative then with mostly one major flag carrier and another smaller and weak competitor just out of restructuring. What stops NZ from considering this route? If Qantas, through JQ, can scoop up some of the kiwi domestic market then why can't NZ do the same in Aus?


They can fly domestic in Australia, the real question is even without VA why would they?

NZ is a different market, JQ can run a small fleet in the main trunk and do ok and keep NZ honest, I feel like it would need a lot more from NZ to keep QF honest given the size of the market compared to NZ, QF would imo be to strong, not worth NZ’s trouble imo. They codeshare now anyway.

I would guess for NZ to compete on say SYD/MEL/BNE/PER/CBR/ADL they would need 10-12 aircraft to offer high frequency on SYD/MEL/BNE atleast.


NZ doesn't have to go all out in the domestic Oz market, it wouldn't even be profitable to do so when going regional and such.
They have to do exactly what JQ does in kiwi domestic market i.e to fly only on the trunk routes.
And aren't the trunk routes in Aus domestic extremely lucrative? So much so that VA are currently only operating that while in administration, because those routes make money.
Also, if VA comes out really small post restructuring, precious slots at major Aus airports would be made available for grabs, from those vacated by VA.
Such challenging times can also offer great opportunities for new entrants in a market, where barriers to entry were much higher earlier.


It would still require 6-8 aircraft just for SYD/MEL/BNE with any reasonable frequency atleast hourly on SYD-MEL.

I’m sure the trunk routes are lucrative but how lucrative? QF/JQ would be tough, like I say they codeshare anyway NZ/QF so it’s a fairly moot point.

The reality is I don’t think NZ or anyone else will want to pay any setup costs, aircraft ,crew, terminals, ground handling on something that might work during times like this.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:49 pm

zkncj wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Interesting conversation with an A320 pilot the other day... they’ve got the A321NEO operating domestically at the moment and apparently when not fully loaded they’re burning about the same amount of fuel as A320s.


I think the days of the a320CEO’s will be getting number, and probably will end up becoming A321NEO less often.

It’s been proven over the last two weeks that, ZQN can handle them domesticly.

Well the domestic configured A321NEOs have been deferred and they’ll be wanting them back for Tasman and PI routes are some stage.
Latest thinking I’ve heard is actually keeping the CEO on for a while yet and just use up their leases etc or abuse the owner ones since resale value is negligible now due to Covid19
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:38 am

Light rail to airport officially dead again for now:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300041 ... olicy-axed
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:17 am

77west wrote:
Light rail to airport officially dead again for now:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300041 ... olicy-axed


Disappointing isn't it. It wasn't "shovel ready" but it could have been a great project to kick off for the economic rebuild.
 
Whoopeecock
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:35 am

Sounds Air looking for feedback on starting CHC/WKA, almost immediately. Sounds (excuse the pun) like they’re keen to do it.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/W5ZVPL5
 
jimmyah
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:39 am

Whoopeecock wrote:
Sounds Air looking for feedback on starting CHC/WKA, almost immediately. Sounds (excuse the pun) like they’re keen to do it.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/W5ZVPL5


Would this be something that the council would get behind or would they prefer to put people through ZQN? We have seen Sounds Air generally look to have local councils onboard (with Westport and Taupo at least).
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:55 am

NZ6 wrote:
77west wrote:
Light rail to airport officially dead again for now:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300041 ... olicy-axed


Disappointing isn't it. It wasn't "shovel ready" but it could have been a great project to kick off for the economic rebuild.


Maybe they don’t think “Auckland Domestic Airport” will have the demand for in the next 10 years.

If the boarders are closed for an decent amount of 2021, that is going to have an major long term effect in AKL.
 
mrkerr7474
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:45 pm

zkncj wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
77west wrote:
Light rail to airport officially dead again for now:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300041 ... olicy-axed


Disappointing isn't it. It wasn't "shovel ready" but it could have been a great project to kick off for the economic rebuild.


Maybe they don’t think “Auckland Domestic Airport” will have the demand for in the next 10 years.

If the boarders are closed for an decent amount of 2021, that is going to have an major long term effect in AKL.


I always get interested when projects are put on hold due to demand dropping in the current climate. I understand finances are probably a large portion of it but I personally would have thought starting / trying to complete projects during a current drop in demand would be better.

Similar to the Wellington airport upgrades being put on hold until demand returns in a couple of years. Of which, the construction will be an inconvenience during busier periods.

Does it not make sense (maybe not financially) to start / complete projects while demand is currently low so the infrastructure is ready as soon as demand comes back?
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:38 pm

jimmyah wrote:
Whoopeecock wrote:
Sounds Air looking for feedback on starting CHC/WKA, almost immediately. Sounds (excuse the pun) like they’re keen to do it.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/W5ZVPL5


Would this be something that the council would get behind or would they prefer to put people through ZQN? We have seen Sounds Air generally look to have local councils onboard (with Westport and Taupo at least).


Might be just for the local market as driving over the crown range to ZQN can be difficult during the winter months. I reckon there will be a lot of support from the local Wanaka business community who have been asking for flights to return for a while.
 
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Zkpilot
Posts: 4521
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:03 pm

NZ516 wrote:
jimmyah wrote:
Whoopeecock wrote:
Sounds Air looking for feedback on starting CHC/WKA, almost immediately. Sounds (excuse the pun) like they’re keen to do it.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/W5ZVPL5


Would this be something that the council would get behind or would they prefer to put people through ZQN? We have seen Sounds Air generally look to have local councils onboard (with Westport and Taupo at least).


Might be just for the local market as driving over the crown range to ZQN can be difficult during the winter months. I reckon there will be a lot of support from the local Wanaka business community who have been asking for flights to return for a while.

Saves a huge amount of time too (not just a couple of hours either!)
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1598
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:27 pm

zkncj wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
77west wrote:
Light rail to airport officially dead again for now:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300041 ... olicy-axed


Disappointing isn't it. It wasn't "shovel ready" but it could have been a great project to kick off for the economic rebuild.


Maybe they don’t think “Auckland Domestic Airport” will have the demand for in the next 10 years.

If the boarders are closed for an decent amount of 2021, that is going to have an major long term effect in AKL.


There's various forms of expert analysis, option and prediction on the the short, medium and long-term effects from COVID.

One of the consistent themes is, things will return to normal....

There's no doubt passenger movements at AKL dropped to almost nothing overnight and it'll likely be a slow recovery before we see the same numbers we did last summer.. but that day will come.

We can do one of two things..

1) Build now and be ready for that day.
2) Accept it's not needed today, focus on other projects but panic and point fingers in years to come when SH20A and B are both parking lots and the cost to build any form of rail is much more...

Tourism will remain critical to our economy, so will international students and immigration. Those along with our physical isolation will mean air-travel is here to stay..
 
NZ6
Posts: 1598
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:47 pm

Whoopeecock wrote:
Sounds Air looking for feedback on starting CHC/WKA, almost immediately. Sounds (excuse the pun) like they’re keen to do it.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/W5ZVPL5


It seems like a very amateur way of conducting market research.

How are they measuring what people say they'll do, is actually what they'll do? - in principal you may say one thing but reality another applies.
How will they know how honest people are - says how many times I use it. I could say 100+ and have no desire at all.
How are they reaching/targeting their potential customers? - seems open to anyone, what if 90% who complete it are negative towards it but they miss 300% more people who would use it.

There's a reason you may money to companies like Kantar Insights or UMR research to do these things for you. But I guess it costs a lot.

I wish them luck and hope they have accounted for large amounts of baggage/ski equipment. Once daily doesn't leave much room for excess.
 
axio
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:44 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:22 pm

NZ6 wrote:
It seems like a very amateur way of conducting market research.


Or a bit of cunning free marketing: 1. reminding people they still exist and to consider them (for travel they can do), and 2. that they're interesting in expanding in a down-turn and thereby trying to generate some goodwill.
Time for a new viewing deck at AKL!
 
NZ6
Posts: 1598
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:24 am

axio wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
It seems like a very amateur way of conducting market research.


Or a bit of cunning free marketing: 1. reminding people they still exist and to consider them (for travel they can do), and 2. that they're interesting in expanding in a down-turn and thereby trying to generate some goodwill.


Only if you follow the principal of being "front of mind"... pretty much lacks most other fundamentals. Product confusion (where do you and don't you fly), honesty and transparency (if it's marketing don't suggest things which you're not seriously considering), professionalism (survey monkey!?!), there's no branding on the survey page or link back to their website. The font is large and bold. The background a bland non brand colour.

Speaking of their website, there's no mention of there... nothing on the landing page, scroll down to the news, nothing there, nothing on the blog (they have a blog??).

So is it being distributed via social media only?. You already start to segment what type of responses you'll get.

There's hundreds of free ways to do marketing on social media channels to simply get your name out there if that's what you want.

I don't think either of us believe that's their sole intention though so back to the points of it...

Ask yourself this question, you're in the dragons den. You have a pocket full of money and you're being asked to fund a CHC-WKA route. The research provided is from survey monkey survey shared via facebook.

Do you part with your money?

I think the route could have it's merits. I just think how they're getting their data is very amateur.
 
axio
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:44 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:28 pm

axio wrote:
Has anyone tried using NZ credits yet?
I got the email about them this morning and had a read through the FAQs and I remain a bit confused about how I might select the flights/options I want, especially when the site says it might be up to 14 days until they get back to me if I use the form - fares and availability could change pretty significantly in that time (travel plans are for early July). I'm thinking I just go ahead and make the new booking I want then use the online form to indicate my original and new booking references. But has anyone been through the process?


I executed on my plan: made a new booking then send in the credit redemption form for the old booking with the new booking reference listed in the notes.
I got the automatic "Credit redemption form received" email saying "We will be contacting you on ... within 14 working days".
17 days later, 5 days out from travel, and there's been nothing further (no call, email, or refund to my card).

I get the airline is likely swamped by this - I can only imagine how time-consuming executing on this as well as keeping adequate records to allow future automation must be - however it's a bit off to set these expectations and then not meet them. It also feels a bit like some sneaky revenue gathering making people wait like this given the fares, if I were to book now, have risen from $170 to $300 (for the cheapest flights, same fare classes).
Time for a new viewing deck at AKL!
 
smartplane
Posts: 1509
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:02 pm

axio wrote:
axio wrote:
Has anyone tried using NZ credits yet?
I got the email about them this morning and had a read through the FAQs and I remain a bit confused about how I might select the flights/options I want, especially when the site says it might be up to 14 days until they get back to me if I use the form - fares and availability could change pretty significantly in that time (travel plans are for early July). I'm thinking I just go ahead and make the new booking I want then use the online form to indicate my original and new booking references. But has anyone been through the process?


I executed on my plan: made a new booking then send in the credit redemption form for the old booking with the new booking reference listed in the notes.
I got the automatic "Credit redemption form received" email saying "We will be contacting you on ... within 14 working days".
17 days later, 5 days out from travel, and there's been nothing further (no call, email, or refund to my card).

I get the airline is likely swamped by this - I can only imagine how time-consuming executing on this as well as keeping adequate records to allow future automation must be - however it's a bit off to set these expectations and then not meet them. It also feels a bit like some sneaky revenue gathering making people wait like this given the fares, if I were to book now, have risen from $170 to $300 (for the cheapest flights, same fare classes).

MasterCard and Visa advise a good operator, not handling customer calls (in other words data entry only), can process 4-5 credits per minute.

All airlines are struggling with credits and refunds. If your credit involves a credit card, the issue for airlines is they require a line of credit if daily refund values exceed new business written times 20 - 30 days to cover further disputes. In these uncertain times, new business relating to not yet taken flights are deducted from the formula, as these too could be the subject of refund claims.

So in addition to losing the use of 'free' funds, airlines need to tie up available credit to facilitate the refunds. Not difficult to understand why airlines are restricting refund volumes due to staffing and other convenient issues.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1598
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:30 am

I've been contemplating asking this for a while, but with Victoria spiking in cases I'll give in and ask.

Here's my questions

1. When will see any form of non quarantine Tasman bubble?
2. Will it be state specific first?
3.If yes to 2, who? and when etc.
4. When will the Pacific follow.
5. Will any other countries join outside of NZ, AU and PI -if so who?
 
zkeoj
Posts: 1228
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:00 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:03 am

NZ6 wrote:
I've been contemplating asking this for a while, but with Victoria spiking in cases I'll give in and ask.

Here's my questions

1. When will see any form of non quarantine Tasman bubble?
2. Will it be state specific first?
3.If yes to 2, who? and when etc.
4. When will the Pacific follow.
5. Will any other countries join outside of NZ, AU and PI -if so who?


1. Looks like not any time soon: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... uH2Qr4XaZ0

2. Just my personal opinion: Doesn't make sense, if people can travel intra-state and then onwards to NZ. How do you control that? Let's say we have a QLD-NZ bubble, what stops a NSW person travelling to BNE and then onwards to NZ?

3. See 2

4. Probably not follow, but lead...

5. Long time away in my opinion, but maybe Taiwan and Singapore (maybe South Korea) to start with. As it goes, the US are going very badly, and that was NZ's prime long haul market in terms of capacity and yields - it is sad to see that this market will stay away for a long time to come.
 
xiaotung
Posts: 1075
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:58 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:22 am

NZ6 wrote:
I've been contemplating asking this for a while, but with Victoria spiking in cases I'll give in and ask.

Here's my questions

1. When will see any form of non quarantine Tasman bubble?
2. Will it be state specific first?
3.If yes to 2, who? and when etc.
4. When will the Pacific follow.
5. Will any other countries join outside of NZ, AU and PI -if so who?


I think your question 2 and 3 would pre determine question 1. At the moment there is nothing to stop a Victorian to travel to Sydney and if things go as planned from 10 July to Brisbane and from 20 July to Adelaide, etc. State specific bubble makes no sense. I think we as NSW residents are consciously prepared for the possibilty of a new cluster when Victoria residents travel north during the next school holidays. What happened in Victoria could easily pop up anywhere. What is New Zealand's position regarding opening borders? Will it be to a country with close to zero new daily cases? If that's the case, I just don't see it ever opening borders for the foreseeable future, unless there is a new type of testing available that can be implemented quickly at both departure and arrival points, or a negative test certificate before travel.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1598
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:41 pm

zkeoj wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
I've been contemplating asking this for a while, but with Victoria spiking in cases I'll give in and ask.

Here's my questions

1. When will see any form of non quarantine Tasman bubble?
2. Will it be state specific first?
3.If yes to 2, who? and when etc.
4. When will the Pacific follow.
5. Will any other countries join outside of NZ, AU and PI -if so who?


1. Looks like not any time soon: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... uH2Qr4XaZ0

2. Just my personal opinion: Doesn't make sense, if people can travel intra-state and then onwards to NZ. How do you control that? Let's say we have a QLD-NZ bubble, what stops a NSW person travelling to BNE and then onwards to NZ?

3. See 2

4. Probably not follow, but lead...

5. Long time away in my opinion, but maybe Taiwan and Singapore (maybe South Korea) to start with. As it goes, the US are going very badly, and that was NZ's prime long haul market in terms of capacity and yields - it is sad to see that this market will stay away for a long time to come.

The July 2021 date came from Joyce’s press conference earlier in the week. During question time at the end he directly stated QF is not expecting international flying over the next year.

QF later clarified any bubble is separate to this timeframe and they are still expecting or anticipating (I forget the term used) for a bubble to be up and running within a few months. Adding a bubble could be operated with its domestic 737/A330 resources (planes and crew I assume) but mainly suggesting it doesn’t change anything for the 747,787 and A380.

The NZ media jumped in this too which I think is why I think QF were later approached for comment. Joyce’s comments were more in reference to Asia, Europe and American routes.

Re 2. Very true so based on this, VIC will likely delay anything now for several months, could we now be looking spring early summer?

If the other states closed down to VIC could a bubble be formed, that was never ruled out.

The concern with this is, our borders are now exposed and subjected to when Australia opened their VIC border. If we were not comfortable would the bubble close down again?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7500
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - June 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:48 am

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-23jun20/

Airline route posted this update for QF last week. I think they would have a longer than 3 week lead in time to any regular flights operating. And they won’t from day 1 operate that full Tasman schedule, 1-2 daily SYD-AKL and 1 daily MEL/BNE-AKL with a few flights to WLG/CHC/ZQN would be my pick. And it would build as demand dictates. Obviously this is also dependent on state borders in Australia.

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