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Breathe
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Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:59 am

With the retirement of Delta's fleet tomorrow, marking a symbolic moment for the end of scheduled passenger services of the MD-80 I was wondering what the future holds for the remaining operators around the world? By my estimation, they'll still be over 100 variants of the MD-80 flying in far-flung parts of the World. With no disrespect to the remaining operators, but with Delta being the last remaining "big" airline to operate the aircraft, will Boeing continue to provide support for the model? I note many of the passenger planes that will remain in use are in places like Iran, Venezuela (where there are political issues with the USA) and operators that have less than dubious safety records.
 
KFTG
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:01 pm

The only future they have out of Iran/Venezuela are the handful of cargo conversions flying (Everts), plus the firefighter jets.
The MD-80 is dead.
 
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SEPilot
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:05 pm

There are many vital parts that are made by independent suppliers, not Boeing. They will not be making any more. Once stocks are gone the only source will be scrapyards. The handwriting is on the wall.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:12 pm

Is Bulgaria Air Charter still planning on flying MD82 aircraft, albeit for 2021 ? They were last summer, between northern Europe and Bulgarian beaches.. and the country has good political relations with the USA, even if Bulgaria is of limited foreign policy importance to the USA
 
AngelsDecay
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:18 pm

MadDogs are still beloved in Ukraine after all these years by some airlines ;)
"Well be thy one,
and wisdom too.
And grew, and joyed in my growth.
From a word to a word, I was lead to a Wyrd.
From a deed, to another deed."
 
Min2Plns
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:50 pm

I loved md-80's when I wasn't paying attention in school and doodling on my notebook, the md-80 was one of the easiest planes to draw between lines. I also loved it because you could really appreciate the entire paint scheme of the airline. A future? Give some comfort to al the other MD-XX'ss that are in heaven.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:29 pm

One should look at the 727 retirement. However, FedEx supporting a large fleet sustained that market.

I posted in the aircraft lease/values thread how values have dropped 15% for more modern narrowbodies. It is worth upgrading, in my opinion, just for the variable cost savings.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1440991&start=50

If you look at the numbers, scrap prices have significantly fallen. It is a buyers market.

SEPilot wrote:
There are many vital parts that are made by independent suppliers, not Boeing. They will not be making any more. Once stocks are gone the only source will be scrapyards. The handwriting is on the wall.

AA announced retirement in 2013 and Delta decided paying to support the entire vendor chain was too expensive, so other than consumables (breaks, tires, seals, and safety equipment), no spares have been made since 2014. Since then hundreds of MD-80 have been scrapped. But there is only so long a fleet survives off scavenged parts.

Sadly, this is no longer a supported aircraft (unlike, say DC-3 where active part manufacturing continues) .

Lightsaber
Flu+Covid19 is bad. Consider a flu vaccine, if not for yourself, to protect someone you care about.
 
727LOVER
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:35 pm

Is Delta last airline flying factory delivered MD-80 & MD-90 ?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:27 pm

727LOVER wrote:
Is Delta last airline flying factory delivered MD-80 & MD-90 ?


If you're ready to believe planespotters.net, yes, DL is the last passenger operator of factory-delivered MD-90s.

https://www.planespotters.net/productio ... D-90/MD-90

It would be a lot more work to check the MD-8X family.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:55 pm

lightsaber wrote:
One should look at the 727 retirement. However, FedEx supporting a large fleet sustained that market.

I posted in the aircraft lease/values thread how values have dropped 15% for more modern narrowbodies. It is worth upgrading, in my opinion, just for the variable cost savings.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1440991&start=50

If you look at the numbers, scrap prices have significantly fallen. It is a buyers market.

SEPilot wrote:
There are many vital parts that are made by independent suppliers, not Boeing. They will not be making any more. Once stocks are gone the only source will be scrapyards. The handwriting is on the wall.

AA announced retirement in 2013 and Delta decided paying to support the entire vendor chain was too expensive, so other than consumables (breaks, tires, seals, and safety equipment), no spares have been made since 2014. Since then hundreds of MD-80 have been scrapped. But there is only so long a fleet survives off scavenged parts.

Sadly, this is no longer a supported aircraft (unlike, say DC-3 where active part manufacturing continues) .

Lightsaber


The remaining global 727 fleet (50 frames?) has probably survived for the last 15 years on scrap parts.

Same with the handful of DC-9s still out there. I'd imagine USA Jet will still have MD-80s for years to come. In other words scavenging for parts might make the global fleet survive a while yet for tier III/specialized operators.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:05 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
One should look at the 727 retirement. However, FedEx supporting a large fleet sustained that market.

I posted in the aircraft lease/values thread how values have dropped 15% for more modern narrowbodies. It is worth upgrading, in my opinion, just for the variable cost savings.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1440991&start=50

If you look at the numbers, scrap prices have significantly fallen. It is a buyers market.

SEPilot wrote:
There are many vital parts that are made by independent suppliers, not Boeing. They will not be making any more. Once stocks are gone the only source will be scrapyards. The handwriting is on the wall.

AA announced retirement in 2013 and Delta decided paying to support the entire vendor chain was too expensive, so other than consumables (breaks, tires, seals, and safety equipment), no spares have been made since 2014. Since then hundreds of MD-80 have been scrapped. But there is only so long a fleet survives off scavenged parts.

Sadly, this is no longer a supported aircraft (unlike, say DC-3 where active part manufacturing continues) .

Lightsaber


The remaining global 727 fleet (50 frames?) has probably survived for the last 15 years on scrap parts.

Same with the handful of DC-9s still out there. I'd imagine USA Jet will still have MD-80s for years to come. In other words scavenging for parts might make the global fleet survive a while yet for tier III/specialized operators.


Exactly, USAJet was (not sure if they still are) planning on buying 7 of the DL 88's and a sim, to replace their DC9 operations.
From my cold, dead hands
 
danipawa
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:15 pm

Venezuela is a strong MD80 operator, Dominican Rep has 1 starup with MD81
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:47 pm

Here's the list of current MD-80 operators:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M ... _operators
 
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MD80
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:59 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Is Bulgaria Air Charter still planning on flying MD82 aircraft, albeit for 2021 ? They were last summer, between northern Europe and Bulgarian beaches.. and the country has good political relations with the USA, even if Bulgaria is of limited foreign policy importance to the USA


There are rumors, that Bulgarian Air Charter could gradually replace their MD-82-fleet with additional Airbus A320s. Due to the current COVID19-crisis, such speculations are vague.

Regards
Dedicated to the MD-80, MD-90, MD-95, and DC-9: www.MD-80.com
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:52 pm

No, the MD-80 will live on for several more years, albeit in low infrastructure areas. Here are the airlines that operate the plane today.

Aeronaves TSM-12
Aeropostal-2
African Express Airways-2
Airfast Indonesia-4
ALK Airline-2
AMAC Aerospace-1
Amjet Executive-1
Anda Air-2
Andes Lineas Aereas-4
ATA (Iran)-7
Bravo Airlines-3
Bukovyna Airlines-1
Bulgarian Air Charter (Retired in future????)-9
Canadian Air Congo-2
Caspian Airlines-5
Chadian Gov't-1
Corporate Aircraft Company-1
Dana Air-6
Delta (retired tommorrow :'( :'( :'( :'( ) 23 if reading today, 0 if tommorow or later
Detroit Pistons-1
Erickson Aero Tanker-8
Everts Air -8
Iran Air-2
Iran Air Tours-5
Kam Air-4
KEB Aircraft-1
Swaziland Gov't-1
Kish Air-7
LASER-13
Montavatchi limited-1
Olympia Aviation-1
Sunrider Corp.-1
Taban Air-5
Taftan Airline-2
TezJet Air-1
USA Jet-1
Venezolana-2
World Atlantic Airlines-11
Zagros Airlines-9

In total, there are 174 MD-80 series airplanes in service. This plane is a reputable workhorse, and always will be. No matter when she leaves, she will always be in our hearts. Anyone agreed?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:47 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
One should look at the 727 retirement. However, FedEx supporting a large fleet sustained that market.

I posted in the aircraft lease/values thread how values have dropped 15% for more modern narrowbodies. It is worth upgrading, in my opinion, just for the variable cost savings.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1440991&start=50

If you look at the numbers, scrap prices have significantly fallen. It is a buyers market.

SEPilot wrote:
There are many vital parts that are made by independent suppliers, not Boeing. They will not be making any more. Once stocks are gone the only source will be scrapyards. The handwriting is on the wall.

AA announced retirement in 2013 and Delta decided paying to support the entire vendor chain was too expensive, so other than consumables (breaks, tires, seals, and safety equipment), no spares have been made since 2014. Since then hundreds of MD-80 have been scrapped. But there is only so long a fleet survives off scavenged parts.

Sadly, this is no longer a supported aircraft (unlike, say DC-3 where active part manufacturing continues) .

Lightsaber


The remaining global 727 fleet (50 frames?) has probably survived for the last 15 years on scrap parts.

Same with the handful of DC-9s still out there. I'd imagine USA Jet will still have MD-80s for years to come. In other words scavenging for parts might make the global fleet survive a while yet for tier III/specialized operators.

Hence why the start of my post said look at the 727 fleet. But it depends on how many opperate. 727 and DC-9 engine overhaul continued until at least 2015. The JT-8D overhauls stopped not much later.

The issue is the MD-80 retirement shut down the engine overhaul market. Other parts with life we can agree can be found for a long time. I am not aware of any shop certified on the JT8D anymore. Shops kept overhauling 727 JT8Ds next to MD-80 JT8Ds long after Delta retired the 727. Pratt bought all the Delta 727 engines and made good money both overhauling them and leasing out the engines (green time).

Do you know if a certified shop on the JT8D? I believe Delta was the last and they let their overhaul cert lapse a while ago. (I thought end of 2017, but I couldn't find a link).

In 2008, post DL 727 retirement, you could get a JT8D overhauled by:
Delta Airlines
American Airlines
Summit Aviation
Volvo
Ethiopian airlines
AirMotive
Bedek (including 727 JT8Ds, for some reason I made a note)
Christchurch Engine Center (famous as the last V2500D5 overhaul center for the MD-90)
Pacific Gas Turbine Center
Atlantic Gas Turbine Center

and probably a few others I didn't write down.

Back then, Pratt was making all JT8D parts still. Now, none.

Today, I found the Atlantic Gas Turbine Center still advertises overhauls for JT8Ds. Are they current? Or is this a stale webpage? To my knowledge, there is no active overhaul certification.

http://atlanticgasturbinecenter.com/services/jt8d/



Lightsaber
Flu+Covid19 is bad. Consider a flu vaccine, if not for yourself, to protect someone you care about.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:48 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
One should look at the 727 retirement. However, FedEx supporting a large fleet sustained that market.

I posted in the aircraft lease/values thread how values have dropped 15% for more modern narrowbodies. It is worth upgrading, in my opinion, just for the variable cost savings.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1440991&start=50

If you look at the numbers, scrap prices have significantly fallen. It is a buyers market.


AA announced retirement in 2013 and Delta decided paying to support the entire vendor chain was too expensive, so other than consumables (breaks, tires, seals, and safety equipment), no spares have been made since 2014. Since then hundreds of MD-80 have been scrapped. But there is only so long a fleet survives off scavenged parts.

Sadly, this is no longer a supported aircraft (unlike, say DC-3 where active part manufacturing continues) .

Lightsaber


The remaining global 727 fleet (50 frames?) has probably survived for the last 15 years on scrap parts.

Same with the handful of DC-9s still out there. I'd imagine USA Jet will still have MD-80s for years to come. In other words scavenging for parts might make the global fleet survive a while yet for tier III/specialized operators.

Hence why the start of my post said look at the 727 fleet. But it depends on how many opperate. 727 and DC-9 engine overhaul continued until at least 2015. The JT-8D overhauls stopped not much later.

The issue is the MD-80 retirement shut down the engine overhaul market. Other parts with life we can agree can be found for a long time. I am not aware of any shop certified on the JT8D anymore. Shops kept overhauling 727 JT8Ds next to MD-80 JT8Ds long after Delta retired the 727. Pratt bought all the Delta 727 engines and made good money both overhauling them and leasing out the engines (green time).

Do you know if a certified shop on the JT8D? I believe Delta was the last and they let their overhaul cert lapse a while ago. (I thought end of 2017, but I couldn't find a link).

In 2008, post DL 727 retirement, you could get a JT8D overhauled by:
Delta Airlines
American Airlines
Summit Aviation
Volvo
Ethiopian airlines
AirMotive
Bedek (including 727 JT8Ds, for some reason I made a note)
Christchurch Engine Center (famous as the last V2500D5 overhaul center for the MD-90)
Pacific Gas Turbine Center
Atlantic Gas Turbine Center

and probably a few others I didn't write down.

Back then, Pratt was making all JT8D parts still. Now, none.

Today, I found the Atlantic Gas Turbine Center still advertises overhauls for JT8Ds. Are they current? Or is this a stale webpage? To my knowledge, there is no active overhaul certification.

http://atlanticgasturbinecenter.com/services/jt8d/



Lightsaber


In the US or globally? There's also still a lot of JT8Ds flying around on 732s (albeit not -200 series JT8s), with probably 1/3 of the world's fleet flying Canada. Those won't be retired anytime soon given their niche use. Most 732s still around these days are the combis.
 
Dalmd88
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:58 pm

Aero Thrust in MIA still has an active JT8D shop for the MD80 series engines. They were providing DL with power by the hour lease engines after DL shut their own shop. It was two years ago BTW, almost to the day. Last overhaul was 5/23/2018. The shop has still been in hospital mode with a few guys to do first stage fans and other line replaceable. Last fall a few guys got pulled back to rework some of the lease Aero Thrust engines.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:37 pm

MD80 wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Is Bulgaria Air Charter still planning on flying MD82 aircraft, albeit for 2021 ? They were last summer, between northern Europe and Bulgarian beaches.. and the country has good political relations with the USA, even if Bulgaria is of limited foreign policy importance to the USA


There are rumors, that Bulgarian Air Charter could gradually replace their MD-82-fleet with additional Airbus A320s. Due to the current COVID19-crisis, such speculations are vague.

Regards


As far as I am aware, the last EASA approved MD-80 simulator has been closed and sold, so EASA MD-80 ops are on their final straws. The pilots will only be able to fly them as long as their licenses are valid, so at the latest around new years 2020-2021.


Boeing757100 wrote:
No, the MD-80 will live on for several more years, albeit in low infrastructure areas. Here are the airlines that operate the plane today.


I think you forgot Danish Air Transport, they should still have a pair.


Boeing757100 wrote:
No matter when she leaves, she will always be in our hearts. Anyone agreed?


It never really did anything for me. Never flown on one either.
 
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SASViking
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:53 pm

VSMUT wrote:
MD80 wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Is Bulgaria Air Charter still planning on flying MD82 aircraft, albeit for 2021 ? They were last summer, between northern Europe and Bulgarian beaches.. and the country has good political relations with the USA, even if Bulgaria is of limited foreign policy importance to the USA


There are rumors, that Bulgarian Air Charter could gradually replace their MD-82-fleet with additional Airbus A320s. Due to the current COVID19-crisis, such speculations are vague.

Regards


As far as I am aware, the last EASA approved MD-80 simulator has been closed and sold, so EASA MD-80 ops are on their final straws. The pilots will only be able to fly them as long as their licenses are valid, so at the latest around new years 2020-2021.


Boeing757100 wrote:
No, the MD-80 will live on for several more years, albeit in low infrastructure areas. Here are the airlines that operate the plane today.


I think you forgot Danish Air Transport, they should still have a pair.


Boeing757100 wrote:
No matter when she leaves, she will always be in our hearts. Anyone agreed?


It never really did anything for me. Never flown on one either.

Indeed Danish Air Transport (DAT) still have two, one MD-82 (OY-RUT) and one MD-83 (OY-RUE). As far as I'm aware DAT aren't planning to retire them anytime soon
Types flown: A319, A320, A32N, A321, A332, A333, A343, AT43, AT75, AT76, B717, B732, B735, B736, B737, B738, B752, B753, CRJ9, DC10, DH4D, DHC3, E135, E145, E175, E190, E195, F100, MD11, MD81, MD82, MD87, RJ1H
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2256
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:54 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
No, the MD-80 will live on for several more years, albeit in low infrastructure areas. Here are the airlines that operate the plane today.

Aeronaves TSM-12
Aeropostal-2
African Express Airways-2
Airfast Indonesia-4
ALK Airline-2
AMAC Aerospace-1
Amjet Executive-1
Anda Air-2
Andes Lineas Aereas-4
ATA (Iran)-7
Bravo Airlines-3
Bukovyna Airlines-1
Bulgarian Air Charter (Retired in future????)-9
Canadian Air Congo-2
Caspian Airlines-5
Chadian Gov't-1
Corporate Aircraft Company-1
Dana Air-6
Delta (retired tommorrow :'( :'( :'( :'( ) 23 if reading today, 0 if tommorow or later
Detroit Pistons-1
Erickson Aero Tanker-8
Everts Air -8
Iran Air-2
Iran Air Tours-5
Kam Air-4
KEB Aircraft-1
Swaziland Gov't-1
Kish Air-7
LASER-13
Montavatchi limited-1
Olympia Aviation-1
Sunrider Corp.-1
Taban Air-5
Taftan Airline-2
TezJet Air-1
USA Jet-1
Venezolana-2
World Atlantic Airlines-11
Zagros Airlines-9

In total, there are 174 MD-80 series airplanes in service. This plane is a reputable workhorse, and always will be. No matter when she leaves, she will always be in our hearts. Anyone agreed?


The only operator I'd be brave enough to set foot on is the Detroit Pistons...and even that one is a maybe.
 
VSMUT
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:03 pm

SASViking wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
MD80 wrote:

There are rumors, that Bulgarian Air Charter could gradually replace their MD-82-fleet with additional Airbus A320s. Due to the current COVID19-crisis, such speculations are vague.

Regards


As far as I am aware, the last EASA approved MD-80 simulator has been closed and sold, so EASA MD-80 ops are on their final straws. The pilots will only be able to fly them as long as their licenses are valid, so at the latest around new years 2020-2021.


Boeing757100 wrote:
No, the MD-80 will live on for several more years, albeit in low infrastructure areas. Here are the airlines that operate the plane today.


I think you forgot Danish Air Transport, they should still have a pair.


Boeing757100 wrote:
No matter when she leaves, she will always be in our hearts. Anyone agreed?


It never really did anything for me. Never flown on one either.

Indeed Danish Air Transport (DAT) still have two, one MD-82 (OY-RUT) and one MD-83 (OY-RUE). As far as I'm aware DAT aren't planning to retire them anytime soon


Unless they solve the simulator issue, they will be forced to ground them by the end of the year.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15214
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:05 pm

These old Mad Dog's had a long and hard life, day to day workhorses, built like a brick outhouse, still nice looking in AA's silver livery, loved by some, despised by those who always got the back rows by the engines.They also still kinda live, their 717 decedents likely to fly for another decade. But time moves on, as they become MX hogs, they are not as efficient as much newer aircraft.
I wonder though, how did pilots like the MD-80 series ?
 
KFTG
Posts: 858
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:32 pm

In case anyone asks, without a simulator certified in Europe (or elsewhere on an EASA certificate), European MD operations are on borrowed time. Especially in light of the economic situation currently. And Del
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20047
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:32 am

Dominion301 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:

The remaining global 727 fleet (50 frames?) has probably survived for the last 15 years on scrap parts.

Same with the handful of DC-9s still out there. I'd imagine USA Jet will still have MD-80s for years to come. In other words scavenging for parts might make the global fleet survive a while yet for tier III/specialized operators.

Hence why the start of my post said look at the 727 fleet. But it depends on how many opperate. 727 and DC-9 engine overhaul continued until at least 2015. The JT-8D overhauls stopped not much later.

The issue is the MD-80 retirement shut down the engine overhaul market. Other parts with life we can agree can be found for a long time. I am not aware of any shop certified on the JT8D anymore. Shops kept overhauling 727 JT8Ds next to MD-80 JT8Ds long after Delta retired the 727. Pratt bought all the Delta 727 engines and made good money both overhauling them and leasing out the engines (green time).

Do you know if a certified shop on the JT8D? I believe Delta was the last and they let their overhaul cert lapse a while ago. (I thought end of 2017, but I couldn't find a link).

In 2008, post DL 727 retirement, you could get a JT8D overhauled by:
Delta Airlines
American Airlines
Summit Aviation
Volvo
Ethiopian airlines
AirMotive
Bedek (including 727 JT8Ds, for some reason I made a note)
Christchurch Engine Center (famous as the last V2500D5 overhaul center for the MD-90)
Pacific Gas Turbine Center
Atlantic Gas Turbine Center

and probably a few others I didn't write down.

Back then, Pratt was making all JT8D parts still. Now, none.

Today, I found the Atlantic Gas Turbine Center still advertises overhauls for JT8Ds. Are they current? Or is this a stale webpage? To my knowledge, there is no active overhaul certification.

http://atlanticgasturbinecenter.com/services/jt8d/



Lightsaber


In the US or globally? There's also still a lot of JT8Ds flying around on 732s (albeit not -200 series JT8s), with probably 1/3 of the world's fleet flying Canada. Those won't be retired anytime soon given their niche use. Most 732s still around these days are the combis.

I'm asking globally. When AA started dumping their MD-80s, there was a time they sold for only a little over $300,000. Buying one for engine green time was far cheaper than engine overhauls. The Allegiant sold their MD-80s with many somewhat recently overhauled engines. This destroyed the business of the JT8D overhaul shops.

Airlines might want to opperate, but I seriously do not know of any JT8D overhaul shop still certified.

Now, this means green engines could keep the fleet going for years, but unlike the 727 era, Pratt walked away from the engine part business. With so many Delta being retired with years of engine life ahead, I cannot see how engine shops could justify keeping the cert.

This won't matter until engine green time is scarce. But this puts a cap on fleet life.

Is there any engine shop still JT8D certified? We were all shocked to find out the Christchurch Engine Center was the last V2500D5 shop. Because of how horrible the JT8D engine overhaul business has been for 5+ years, I seriously ask, is there any certified shop left in the world?

Lightsaber
Flu+Covid19 is bad. Consider a flu vaccine, if not for yourself, to protect someone you care about.
 
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Phosphorus
Posts: 1013
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:34 am

Canadian North and their 737-200 might be one way to figure out, where JT8D overhaul is possible. It's difficult to imagine Canadian North spending a boatload of money, on cockpit upgrades and other life extension programs, and having no engine overhaul shop contracted, to support their operations into the future.
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
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a2b7
Posts: 34
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:51 am

VSMUT wrote:
MD80 wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Is Bulgaria Air Charter still planning on flying MD82 aircraft, albeit for 2021 ? They were last summer, between northern Europe and Bulgarian beaches.. and the country has good political relations with the USA, even if Bulgaria is of limited foreign policy importance to the USA


There are rumors, that Bulgarian Air Charter could gradually replace their MD-82-fleet with additional Airbus A320s. Due to the current COVID19-crisis, such speculations are vague.

Regards


As far as I am aware, the last EASA approved MD-80 simulator has been closed and sold, so EASA MD-80 ops are on their final straws. The pilots will only be able to fly them as long as their licenses are valid, so at the latest around new years 2020-2021.

Which was the last EASA approved MD-80 simulator? Sofia Flight Training still advertises one on their homepage https://sofiaflighttraining.com/md-80-f ... simulator/
 
VSMUT
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:09 pm

a2b7 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
MD80 wrote:

There are rumors, that Bulgarian Air Charter could gradually replace their MD-82-fleet with additional Airbus A320s. Due to the current COVID19-crisis, such speculations are vague.

Regards


As far as I am aware, the last EASA approved MD-80 simulator has been closed and sold, so EASA MD-80 ops are on their final straws. The pilots will only be able to fly them as long as their licenses are valid, so at the latest around new years 2020-2021.

Which was the last EASA approved MD-80 simulator? Sofia Flight Training still advertises one on their homepage https://sofiaflighttraining.com/md-80-f ... simulator/


The one in Sofia. When I saw it in December, they said had already sold it to make room for a 737MAX simulator.
 
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InnsbruckFlyer
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:11 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
No, the MD-80 will live on for several more years, albeit in low infrastructure areas. Here are the airlines that operate the plane today.

Aeronaves TSM-12
Aeropostal-2
African Express Airways-2
Airfast Indonesia-4
ALK Airline-2
AMAC Aerospace-1
Amjet Executive-1
Anda Air-2
Andes Lineas Aereas-4
ATA (Iran)-7
Bravo Airlines-3
Bukovyna Airlines-1
Bulgarian Air Charter (Retired in future????)-9
Canadian Air Congo-2
Caspian Airlines-5
Chadian Gov't-1
Corporate Aircraft Company-1
Dana Air-6
Delta (retired tommorrow :'( :'( :'( :'( ) 23 if reading today, 0 if tommorow or later
Detroit Pistons-1
Erickson Aero Tanker-8
Everts Air -8
Iran Air-2
Iran Air Tours-5
Kam Air-4
KEB Aircraft-1
Swaziland Gov't-1
Kish Air-7
LASER-13
Montavatchi limited-1
Olympia Aviation-1
Sunrider Corp.-1
Taban Air-5
Taftan Airline-2
TezJet Air-1
USA Jet-1
Venezolana-2
World Atlantic Airlines-11
Zagros Airlines-9

In total, there are 174 MD-80 series airplanes in service. This plane is a reputable workhorse, and always will be. No matter when she leaves, she will always be in our hearts. Anyone agreed?


The only operator I'd be brave enough to set foot on is the Detroit Pistons...and even that one is a maybe.


I'd feel fine on ALK or BAC's MD80s, as they're subject to EASA and EU standards, which are extremely thorough.
Last flown aircraft: DH8D OE-LGN < DH8D OE-LGI < E195 OE-LWE < DH8D OE-LGI < A320 D-AIUR < A320 D-AIZM < B738 PH-HZJ < B737 PH-XRD < B772 N766AN < B738 N855NN < B788 N45905 < A319 N808UA < A320 N482UA < B752 N19117
 
DALMD80
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:15 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
This plane is a reputable workhorse, and always will be. No matter when she leaves, she will always be in our hearts. Anyone agreed?

I agree completely. I think my first flight that I truly remember well was on a Mad Dog, and I regret not paying more attention to it. I've seen Mad Dogs only a handful of times, maybe 15. I also regret not getting a second flight on a Mad Dog once I realized: A) How much they mean to me, and B) that they were on the way out. It's a sad day, but I'm sure that we'll find another aircraft to love. I'm open to suggestions on that front.
2 things- Wear a mask, and vote. It's that simple.
 
Dalmd88
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:02 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Hence why the start of my post said look at the 727 fleet. But it depends on how many opperate. 727 and DC-9 engine overhaul continued until at least 2015. The JT-8D overhauls stopped not much later.

The issue is the MD-80 retirement shut down the engine overhaul market. Other parts with life we can agree can be found for a long time. I am not aware of any shop certified on the JT8D anymore. Shops kept overhauling 727 JT8Ds next to MD-80 JT8Ds long after Delta retired the 727. Pratt bought all the Delta 727 engines and made good money both overhauling them and leasing out the engines (green time).

Do you know if a certified shop on the JT8D? I believe Delta was the last and they let their overhaul cert lapse a while ago. (I thought end of 2017, but I couldn't find a link).

In 2008, post DL 727 retirement, you could get a JT8D overhauled by:
Delta Airlines
American Airlines
Summit Aviation
Volvo
Ethiopian airlines
AirMotive
Bedek (including 727 JT8Ds, for some reason I made a note)
Christchurch Engine Center (famous as the last V2500D5 overhaul center for the MD-90)
Pacific Gas Turbine Center
Atlantic Gas Turbine Center

and probably a few others I didn't write down.

Back then, Pratt was making all JT8D parts still. Now, none.

Today, I found the Atlantic Gas Turbine Center still advertises overhauls for JT8Ds. Are they current? Or is this a stale webpage? To my knowledge, there is no active overhaul certification.

http://atlanticgasturbinecenter.com/services/jt8d/



Lightsaber


In the US or globally? There's also still a lot of JT8Ds flying around on 732s (albeit not -200 series JT8s), with probably 1/3 of the world's fleet flying Canada. Those won't be retired anytime soon given their niche use. Most 732s still around these days are the combis.

I'm asking globally. When AA started dumping their MD-80s, there was a time they sold for only a little over $300,000. Buying one for engine green time was far cheaper than engine overhauls. The Allegiant sold their MD-80s with many somewhat recently overhauled engines. This destroyed the business of the JT8D overhaul shops.

Airlines might want to opperate, but I seriously do not know of any JT8D overhaul shop still certified.

Now, this means green engines could keep the fleet going for years, but unlike the 727 era, Pratt walked away from the engine part business. With so many Delta being retired with years of engine life ahead, I cannot see how engine shops could justify keeping the cert.

This won't matter until engine green time is scarce. But this puts a cap on fleet life.

Is there any engine shop still JT8D certified? We were all shocked to find out the Christchurch Engine Center was the last V2500D5 shop. Because of how horrible the JT8D engine overhaul business has been for 5+ years, I seriously ask, is there any certified shop left in the world?

Lightsaber

See my post #18, Aerothrust in MIA is still doing JT8D overhauls.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:06 pm

Dalmd88 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:

In the US or globally? There's also still a lot of JT8Ds flying around on 732s (albeit not -200 series JT8s), with probably 1/3 of the world's fleet flying Canada. Those won't be retired anytime soon given their niche use. Most 732s still around these days are the combis.

I'm asking globally. When AA started dumping their MD-80s, there was a time they sold for only a little over $300,000. Buying one for engine green time was far cheaper than engine overhauls. The Allegiant sold their MD-80s with many somewhat recently overhauled engines. This destroyed the business of the JT8D overhaul shops.

Airlines might want to opperate, but I seriously do not know of any JT8D overhaul shop still certified.

Now, this means green engines could keep the fleet going for years, but unlike the 727 era, Pratt walked away from the engine part business. With so many Delta being retired with years of engine life ahead, I cannot see how engine shops could justify keeping the cert.

This won't matter until engine green time is scarce. But this puts a cap on fleet life.

Is there any engine shop still JT8D certified? We were all shocked to find out the Christchurch Engine Center was the last V2500D5 shop. Because of how horrible the JT8D engine overhaul business has been for 5+ years, I seriously ask, is there any certified shop left in the world?

Lightsaber

See my post #18, Aerothrust in MIA is still doing JT8D overhauls.

If you Google you will see there are numerous facilities still performing overhaul on the JT8s.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:49 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Dalmd88 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
I'm asking globally. When AA started dumping their MD-80s, there was a time they sold for only a little over $300,000. Buying one for engine green time was far cheaper than engine overhauls. The Allegiant sold their MD-80s with many somewhat recently overhauled engines. This destroyed the business of the JT8D overhaul shops.

Airlines might want to opperate, but I seriously do not know of any JT8D overhaul shop still certified.

Now, this means green engines could keep the fleet going for years, but unlike the 727 era, Pratt walked away from the engine part business. With so many Delta being retired with years of engine life ahead, I cannot see how engine shops could justify keeping the cert.

This won't matter until engine green time is scarce. But this puts a cap on fleet life.

Is there any engine shop still JT8D certified? We were all shocked to find out the Christchurch Engine Center was the last V2500D5 shop. Because of how horrible the JT8D engine overhaul business has been for 5+ years, I seriously ask, is there any certified shop left in the world?

Lightsaber

See my post #18, Aerothrust in MIA is still doing JT8D overhauls.

If you Google you will see there are numerous facilities still performing overhaul on the JT8s.

The issue is all I found that I knew had stopped has not updated the web pages. I'm happy to have confirmation of one. This means parts can be scavenged. But most of the sites I found by searching don't actually still perform overhauls.

The market was flooded with hundreds of green engines over the last 5 years. Combined with the step function halt in business from Delta, American, and Allegiant, I am impressed any survived.

I have not ever seen such a brutal decommissioning of an airframe before. The 727 was gentle in comparison.

But now it is without Pratt parts available. Now, years of service isn't an issue. What will be is the doggie warmer valve (valve to divert hot engine air to warm cargo hold) and other custom parts.

For some reason, no one but AA and at the end DL inventoried those. So when Meggitt stopped overhauling them, I don't think opperators took the "order now or do without" email seriously.

Lightsaber
Flu+Covid19 is bad. Consider a flu vaccine, if not for yourself, to protect someone you care about.
 
a300
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:55 pm

At the end of the day, much of technology becomes obsolete. The lamenting of the passage of DC-9, MD-80 and MD-90 to the scrap heaps likely pivots on nostalgia and fear of our own mortality.

Ironically, the DC-9 fuselage (or something darn close to it) is still being produced for the ARJ21 Frankenstein-jet.

The list of the Iranian MD-80 fleet is incorrect.

Iran Air has only a single example (EP-CBD) that is operational (though parked currently as part of the travel downturn).

Taftan has not existed as an actual airline for many years now. Its 2 MD-80 had been leased out at times to Taban and others. They are both parked now.

A previously Danish registered MD-80 very recently arrived in Tabriz. It is for ATA. I am not clear whether it will join the active fleet or will be used for parts.
Boland Aseman Jayegah Man Ast.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:02 pm

WL now becomes the largest MD-80 operator in the USA with 11 frames. However, unless they have money to transition to another fleet type, or to buy up many of the DL MD80s for parts, I can't see them lasting much longer as their median fleet age is 29 years. 3Z actually bought four other MD-80s for parts to support its own MD-80 (and DC-9-30) freighters. (3Z also has DC-6s and DC-3s to support.) I would call this akin to the DC87...when 5X announced its retirement, that basically ended the type almost everywhere.

Up until the early 2010s, FX, DL, and AA were still major JT8D operators. However, with FX retiring its 727s, and then once AA decided to retire its MD80 fleet, the incentive to manufacture parts dried up. DL might have goofed in terms of MD-90 engine overhaul, to where the only overhaul center was out of reach.
 
496TFS
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:35 pm

The demise of the MD-80 series couldn’t happen to a better airplane!

Personally, I found the MD-88, by far, the worst airliner I have ever flown. The systems were designed by Rube Goldberg. Just an example, the Dial-a-Flap system was goofy as heck. It had plenty of power but the wing and flight controls didn’t match. It was very heavy in roll and many pilots would not fly it above FL310. I’ve gotten wing buffet at FL350 that raised my eye brows. I could go on and on but, for me, the Mad Dog was a piece of crap worthy of the scrap yard.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:30 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
One should look at the 727 retirement. However, FedEx supporting a large fleet sustained that market.

I posted in the aircraft lease/values thread how values have dropped 15% for more modern narrowbodies. It is worth upgrading, in my opinion, just for the variable cost savings.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1440991&start=50

If you look at the numbers, scrap prices have significantly fallen. It is a buyers market.

SEPilot wrote:
There are many vital parts that are made by independent suppliers, not Boeing. They will not be making any more. Once stocks are gone the only source will be scrapyards. The handwriting is on the wall.

AA announced retirement in 2013 and Delta decided paying to support the entire vendor chain was too expensive, so other than consumables (breaks, tires, seals, and safety equipment), no spares have been made since 2014. Since then hundreds of MD-80 have been scrapped. But there is only so long a fleet survives off scavenged parts.

Sadly, this is no longer a supported aircraft (unlike, say DC-3 where active part manufacturing continues) .

Lightsaber


The remaining global 727 fleet (50 frames?) has probably survived for the last 15 years on scrap parts.

Same with the handful of DC-9s still out there. I'd imagine USA Jet will still have MD-80s for years to come. In other words scavenging for parts might make the global fleet survive a while yet for tier III/specialized operators.

Yah all those retired planes have 1 of everything. Also these parts can be refurbished.
 
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CrimsonNL
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:18 pm

a300 wrote:
Iran Air has only a single example (EP-CBD) that is operational (though parked currently as part of the travel downturn).


Fun fact, this is one of the Chinese frames built at SAIC. Wonder if it's the last one (out of 20 Chinese built IIRC) to survive?
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
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SEPilot
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:40 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
One should look at the 727 retirement. However, FedEx supporting a large fleet sustained that market.

I posted in the aircraft lease/values thread how values have dropped 15% for more modern narrowbodies. It is worth upgrading, in my opinion, just for the variable cost savings.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1440991&start=50

If you look at the numbers, scrap prices have significantly fallen. It is a buyers market.


AA announced retirement in 2013 and Delta decided paying to support the entire vendor chain was too expensive, so other than consumables (breaks, tires, seals, and safety equipment), no spares have been made since 2014. Since then hundreds of MD-80 have been scrapped. But there is only so long a fleet survives off scavenged parts.

Sadly, this is no longer a supported aircraft (unlike, say DC-3 where active part manufacturing continues) .

Lightsaber


The remaining global 727 fleet (50 frames?) has probably survived for the last 15 years on scrap parts.

Same with the handful of DC-9s still out there. I'd imagine USA Jet will still have MD-80s for years to come. In other words scavenging for parts might make the global fleet survive a while yet for tier III/specialized operators.

Yah all those retired planes have 1 of everything. Also these parts can be refurbished.

First, many of these parts have more than one per plane (engines, landing gear, actuators, etc.). And not all can be refurbished, some have mandatory replacement times and limits as to how many times they can be refurbished. And refurbishment must be approved and done in a certified repair facility. Lightsaber has been pointing out that there is apparently no shop in the world that has current certification to overhaul JT8Ds. And nobody is making parts for them, and some parts must be replaced at overhaul.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
a300
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Re: Future of the MD-80

Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:38 pm

CrimsonNL wrote:
a300 wrote:
Iran Air has only a single example (EP-CBD) that is operational (though parked currently as part of the travel downturn).


Fun fact, this is one of the Chinese frames built at SAIC. Wonder if it's the last one (out of 20 Chinese built IIRC) to survive?


Iran Air Tours has three of them as well. In another word, all the remaining SAIC are in Iran.
Boland Aseman Jayegah Man Ast.

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