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SilverwingSpttr
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:32 pm

They can't seem to get the livery right, and I think that comes from the expectation attached to the "Eastern" name. This carrier would have so much more potential with its own identity.
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admdavid
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:49 pm

Ishrion wrote:


I do too. It's clean with something interesting happening on the tail and engine cowls and I like the font.
 
OB1504
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:19 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
I have to wonder if Eastern (2D) is going for military charters or ACMI duty. They also have the B763 which has functioned in a pinch. Even though they just got a new livery, the two B762 (base) and two B762(ER) frames are between 32 and 36 years old, and their ex-BA frames (acquired from QF) are about 30 years old...but about half-time in lifespan. However, those B763s are the last RB211 B763s flying.

Acquiring a few freighters might not hurt either.

why is it you focus on AGE as if that matters as to How the airframe has been Maintained? I'll bet there are still DC8's flying that are older than you ! It's not the Age of the airframe it's how it was maintained! when I was still at United we sold airplanes that went on to fly for another 15 years before they were put out to pasture. after nearly 20 years with United,
It's not the age but the care taken with the airplanes


Eastern's not very good at keeping the 767s flying reliably anyway.

SilverwingSpttr wrote:
They can't seem to get the livery right, and I think that comes from the expectation attached to the "Eastern" name. This carrier would have so much more potential with its own identity.


Agreed. If they're not going to use any of the original branding elements, then there's no point in using the Eastern name at all.

That being said, the Dynamic name was tarnished because of their poor reliability and they needed something new.
 
elpaviator19
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:12 am

I really want this airline to succeed being that the United States already has a overly controlled market by the big 3 airlines (4 if you include Southwest), and not a-lot of start up airlines really go anywhere without going out of business. I think we need more competitors in the skies and more variety. That being said Eastern needs to do there part and actually advertise their airline with commercials, promotions, and signage. There was a flight review by a journalist who went on Eastern's inaugural flight out of JFK, he was met with no trace that the airline even existed at the airport, trouble finding the check in counter due to no signage, and employees not wearing an Eastern uniform (confusing for passengers trying to find there airline lol). These are the things that will put you out of business easily, if they want too succeed they need to slow things down get some employees, advertise so regular passengers know they exist, and make sensible choices when choosing new routes.

Link to the story : https://thepointsguy.com/news/eastern-a ... al-flight/
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:30 am

SilverwingSpttr wrote:
They can't seem to get the livery right, and I think that comes from the expectation attached to the "Eastern" name. This carrier would have so much more potential with its own identity.


Agreed. This livery is very good but would be better suited for a name like "Navigator Air Lines" or "Explorer Air Lines," as their branding is aimed at conveying a sense of adventure. Sell the Eastern branding and intellectual property to someone who will actually make use of it.
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alasizon
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:34 am

EA CO AS wrote:
SilverwingSpttr wrote:
They can't seem to get the livery right, and I think that comes from the expectation attached to the "Eastern" name. This carrier would have so much more potential with its own identity.


Agreed. This livery is very good but would be better suited for a name like "Navigator Air Lines" or "Explorer Air Lines," as their branding is aimed at conveying a sense of adventure. Sell the Eastern branding and intellectual property to someone who will actually make use of it.


Can't imagine there is going to be anyone right now looking to buy airline IP.
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LAXintl
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:39 am

Livery growing on me, but the Eastern titles font and sizing looks off

Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcW0EkJXkAE ... name=large
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Ishrion
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:46 am

LAXintl wrote:
Livery growing on me, but the Eastern titles font and sizing looks off

Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcW0EkJXkAE ... name=large


The livery's quite nice but the Eastern text positioning with the second door makes it seem weird...
 
UA444
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:02 am

Billboard titles are the worst “invention” ever.
 
argentinevol98
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:55 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Livery growing on me, but the Eastern titles font and sizing looks off

Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcW0EkJXkAE ... name=large


I would have made the titles a bit larger imo. They look a tad too small to be billboard style.
"He sospechado alguna vez que la única cosa sin misterio es la felicidad, porque se justifica por sí sola"-Jorge Luis Borges
 
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sjones1975
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:13 pm

I hope they didn't pay too much for the Eastern intellectual property because they're not getting much mileage from it with that livery. You pay for a once-big name so that people associate your airline with the famous airline (or better yet, they think you are a continuation of that airline from which you bought the IP). Here, the font and the tail design aren't really evocative of Eastern. The only design element that is evocative of the old Eastern is the small logo on the top of the tail.. One could argue that the name ("Eastern") by itself, regardless of design (font, logo, etc.) will remind people of the old airline. But "Eastern" is a pretty generic name, and I suspect people won't make the connection when the plane itself looks so different than the original Eastern Airlines. I'm not suggesting that the new airline should have used Eastern's 1980s livery unchanged. They should have modified it a bit so it's not so dated, but they shouldn't have modified it so much that it's unrecognizable. Otherwise, why bother paying for the name in the first place?
my longest flight in a 757: FRU-ADA-SNN-BWI
 
elpaviator19
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:42 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Livery growing on me, but the Eastern titles font and sizing looks off

Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcW0EkJXkAE ... name=large



Livery looks great, different from any other airline with that unique tail design. The billboard titles don’t bother me in the front maybe they should be slightly moved back in a perfect world. Only true criticism is the old Eastern Airlines logo all the way in the back of the tail, I like it there but feel like it should also be next to the billboard titles. It almost looks like they forgot to put it on and stamped it in the back. And wish there was less euro white. :bouncy:
 
a318
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:26 am

Does anyone understand how the crewing works for this? Are their pilots American? It seems like most of their flight attendants are Guyanese and based in Guayana (obviously).
 
elpaviator19
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:07 pm

a318 wrote:
Does anyone understand how the crewing works for this? Are their pilots American? It seems like most of their flight attendants are Guyanese and based in Guayana (obviously).


Not sure... I know they were once apart of swift so maybe some pilots transferred over. I would think it would be hard to find a experienced pilot for the 767-200 or -300 with not many of them flying today. And do they have the training facilities like most major airlines have?
 
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Polot
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:51 pm

elpaviator19 wrote:
a318 wrote:
Does anyone understand how the crewing works for this? Are their pilots American? It seems like most of their flight attendants are Guyanese and based in Guayana (obviously).


Not sure... I know they were once apart of swift so maybe some pilots transferred over. I would think it would be hard to find a experienced pilot for the 767-200 or -300 with not many of them flying today. And do they have the training facilities like most major airlines have?

There are many experienced 767 pilots in the US, quite possibly more than any other wide body type. DL, UA, AA, FX, UPS, ABX, Atlas all operate[d] large 767 fleets along with some other smaller carriers. I’m not sure where you are getting the notion that the 767 is a rare type in the US from.

EA probably lease simulator time if they don’t have any of their own.
 
elpaviator19
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:21 pm

Polot wrote:
elpaviator19 wrote:
a318 wrote:
Does anyone understand how the crewing works for this? Are their pilots American? It seems like most of their flight attendants are Guyanese and based in Guayana (obviously).


Not sure... I know they were once apart of swift so maybe some pilots transferred over. I would think it would be hard to find a experienced pilot for the 767-200 or -300 with not many of them flying today. And do they have the training facilities like most major airlines have?

There are many experienced 767 pilots in the US, quite possibly more than any other wide body type. DL, UA, AA, FX, UPS, ABX, Atlas all operate[d] large 767 fleets along with some other smaller carriers. I’m not sure where you are getting the notion that the 767 is a rare type in the US from.

EA probably lease simulator time if they don’t have any of their own.


I understand there are many 767’s in the U.S, but many pilots that flew that type of plane mostly the -200 probably retired when the airplane did. United, American, and U.S. Airways once all operated the 767, most got fitted to cargo from passanger once retired. I’m not saying the 767 is a rare plane but maybe suggesting that there are a limited number of pilots out there that know and have experience on the 767 and don’t have to go through to much training for the type.
 
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Polot
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:58 pm

elpaviator19 wrote:
Polot wrote:
elpaviator19 wrote:

Not sure... I know they were once apart of swift so maybe some pilots transferred over. I would think it would be hard to find a experienced pilot for the 767-200 or -300 with not many of them flying today. And do they have the training facilities like most major airlines have?

There are many experienced 767 pilots in the US, quite possibly more than any other wide body type. DL, UA, AA, FX, UPS, ABX, Atlas all operate[d] large 767 fleets along with some other smaller carriers. I’m not sure where you are getting the notion that the 767 is a rare type in the US from.

EA probably lease simulator time if they don’t have any of their own.


I understand there are many 767’s in the U.S, but many pilots that flew that type of plane mostly the -200 probably retired when the airplane did. United, American, and U.S. Airways once all operated the 767, most got fitted to cargo from passanger once retired. I’m not saying the 767 is a rare plane but maybe suggesting that there are a limited number of pilots out there that know and have experience on the 767 and don’t have to go through to much training for the type.

It really doesn’t matter much from a pilot prospective if the plane is a 767-200, -200ER, -300, -300ER, -300F (it matters a little more for the -400, but still not a huge issue). Type rating allows them to easily fly between variants and most did.

I would not assume that most 767 (or any type really) pilots retire with the plane. Early 767 pilots likely retired or moved to a different type long before the plane’s retirement, and later 767 pilots are likely still at the company but moved to other planes.

The 767 is not a rare type, and is still actively used in regular service. Finding/qualifying pilots for the type is not a major issue. That doesn’t mean EA has zero issues staffing pilots, as that depends mostly on pay and benefits.
 
elpaviator19
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:37 pm

Polot wrote:
elpaviator19 wrote:
Polot wrote:
There are many experienced 767 pilots in the US, quite possibly more than any other wide body type. DL, UA, AA, FX, UPS, ABX, Atlas all operate[d] large 767 fleets along with some other smaller carriers. I’m not sure where you are getting the notion that the 767 is a rare type in the US from.

EA probably lease simulator time if they don’t have any of their own.


I understand there are many 767’s in the U.S, but many pilots that flew that type of plane mostly the -200 probably retired when the airplane did. United, American, and U.S. Airways once all operated the 767, most got fitted to cargo from passanger once retired. I’m not saying the 767 is a rare plane but maybe suggesting that there are a limited number of pilots out there that know and have experience on the 767 and don’t have to go through to much training for the type.

It really doesn’t matter much from a pilot prospective if the plane is a 767-200, -200ER, -300, -300ER, -300F (it matters a little more for the -400, but still not a huge issue). Type rating allows them to easily fly between variants and most did.

I would not assume that most 767 (or any type really) pilots retire with the plane. Early 767 pilots likely retired or moved to a different type long before the plane’s retirement, and later 767 pilots are likely still at the company but moved to other planes.

The 767 is not a rare type, and is still actively used in regular service. Finding/qualifying pilots for the type is not a major issue. That doesn’t mean EA has zero issues staffing pilots, as that depends mostly on pay and benefits.


Right... I just hope the can actually pull through and make profit with the routes they are flying. American already has flights from MIA-GYE with the 737-800 so there’s some competition. The 767-200 and 300 are both big jets with lots of seats... and I can’t forget about the 777 they just got so it’s going to be a challenge trying to fill all those seats especially with the current situation. Maybe they should play it smart and get some of those cheap md-80’s that are sitting out in the desert or a 737 or two just until demand for flying starts to pick up again. And maybe start some domestic routes in the U.S. there are a lot of city’s that don’t have one way service to JFK or MIA.
 
OB1504
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:39 pm

elpaviator19 wrote:
Polot wrote:
elpaviator19 wrote:

Not sure... I know they were once apart of swift so maybe some pilots transferred over. I would think it would be hard to find a experienced pilot for the 767-200 or -300 with not many of them flying today. And do they have the training facilities like most major airlines have?

There are many experienced 767 pilots in the US, quite possibly more than any other wide body type. DL, UA, AA, FX, UPS, ABX, Atlas all operate[d] large 767 fleets along with some other smaller carriers. I’m not sure where you are getting the notion that the 767 is a rare type in the US from.

EA probably lease simulator time if they don’t have any of their own.


I understand there are many 767’s in the U.S, but many pilots that flew that type of plane mostly the -200 probably retired when the airplane did. United, American, and U.S. Airways once all operated the 767, most got fitted to cargo from passanger once retired. I’m not saying the 767 is a rare plane but maybe suggesting that there are a limited number of pilots out there that know and have experience on the 767 and don’t have to go through to much training for the type.


Doesn’t United still fly the 767? AA only retired theirs two months ago. The 767 is still extremely popular with cargo carriers; there shouldn’t be any issues finding or training pilots as necessary, especially since they’ve been flying the 767 for years.

This iteration of Eastern had some common ownership with Swift Air but they were never owned by Swift.

elpaviator19 wrote:
I really want this airline to succeed being that the United States already has a overly controlled market by the big 3 airlines (4 if you include Southwest), and not a-lot of start up airlines really go anywhere without going out of business. I think we need more competitors in the skies and more variety. That being said Eastern needs to do there part and actually advertise their airline with commercials, promotions, and signage. There was a flight review by a journalist who went on Eastern's inaugural flight out of JFK, he was met with no trace that the airline even existed at the airport, trouble finding the check in counter due to no signage, and employees not wearing an Eastern uniform (confusing for passengers trying to find there airline lol). These are the things that will put you out of business easily, if they want too succeed they need to slow things down get some employees, advertise so regular passengers know they exist, and make sensible choices when choosing new routes.

Link to the story : https://thepointsguy.com/news/eastern-a ... al-flight/


The ground staff are outsourced to the lowest bidder and just wear whatever generic uniform the vendor provides. I don’t think Eastern has any ground staff uniforms.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3962
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:18 pm

elpaviator19 wrote:
Polot wrote:
elpaviator19 wrote:

I understand there are many 767’s in the U.S, but many pilots that flew that type of plane mostly the -200 probably retired when the airplane did. United, American, and U.S. Airways once all operated the 767, most got fitted to cargo from passanger once retired. I’m not saying the 767 is a rare plane but maybe suggesting that there are a limited number of pilots out there that know and have experience on the 767 and don’t have to go through to much training for the type.

It really doesn’t matter much from a pilot prospective if the plane is a 767-200, -200ER, -300, -300ER, -300F (it matters a little more for the -400, but still not a huge issue). Type rating allows them to easily fly between variants and most did.

I would not assume that most 767 (or any type really) pilots retire with the plane. Early 767 pilots likely retired or moved to a different type long before the plane’s retirement, and later 767 pilots are likely still at the company but moved to other planes.

The 767 is not a rare type, and is still actively used in regular service. Finding/qualifying pilots for the type is not a major issue. That doesn’t mean EA has zero issues staffing pilots, as that depends mostly on pay and benefits.


Right... I just hope the can actually pull through and make profit with the routes they are flying. American already has flights from MIA-GYE with the 737-800 so there’s some competition. The 767-200 and 300 are both big jets with lots of seats... and I can’t forget about the 777 they just got so it’s going to be a challenge trying to fill all those seats especially with the current situation. Maybe they should play it smart and get some of those cheap md-80’s that are sitting out in the desert or a 737 or two just until demand for flying starts to pick up again. And maybe start some domestic routes in the U.S. there are a lot of city’s that don’t have one way service to JFK or MIA.


It would be much more expensive for them to incorporate a new fleet type for a (relatively) short term downturn. They’re better off sticking to the current fleet.

IIRC their most recent business model was to go after underserved VFR markets between the US and Latin America/the Caribbean. Now’s a terrible time to start domestic flying.
 
elpaviator19
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:47 pm

Buying a different type of fleet might not be all that bad, after all they did just purchase the 777. The only downside would be training and having enough employees to accommodate for the new type. Although they should turn up a profit for a while with the aircraft and routes there flying now and build a good reputation. I’m still a believer in domestic routes maybe not now but definitely in the future because there’s always demand to NYC with people not wanting to connect through ATL, IAH, DFW, etc.
 
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lesfalls
Posts: 3366
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Re: Eastern Airlines getting a 777

Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:01 pm

OB1504 wrote:
elpaviator19 wrote:
Polot wrote:
There are many experienced 767 pilots in the US, quite possibly more than any other wide body type. DL, UA, AA, FX, UPS, ABX, Atlas all operate[d] large 767 fleets along with some other smaller carriers. I’m not sure where you are getting the notion that the 767 is a rare type in the US from.

EA probably lease simulator time if they don’t have any of their own.


I understand there are many 767’s in the U.S, but many pilots that flew that type of plane mostly the -200 probably retired when the airplane did. United, American, and U.S. Airways once all operated the 767, most got fitted to cargo from passanger once retired. I’m not saying the 767 is a rare plane but maybe suggesting that there are a limited number of pilots out there that know and have experience on the 767 and don’t have to go through to much training for the type.


Doesn’t United still fly the 767? AA only retired theirs two months ago. The 767 is still extremely popular with cargo carriers; there shouldn’t be any issues finding or training pilots as necessary, especially since they’ve been flying the 767 for years.

This iteration of Eastern had some common ownership with Swift Air but they were never owned by Swift.

elpaviator19 wrote:
I really want this airline to succeed being that the United States already has a overly controlled market by the big 3 airlines (4 if you include Southwest), and not a-lot of start up airlines really go anywhere without going out of business. I think we need more competitors in the skies and more variety. That being said Eastern needs to do there part and actually advertise their airline with commercials, promotions, and signage. There was a flight review by a journalist who went on Eastern's inaugural flight out of JFK, he was met with no trace that the airline even existed at the airport, trouble finding the check in counter due to no signage, and employees not wearing an Eastern uniform (confusing for passengers trying to find there airline lol). These are the things that will put you out of business easily, if they want too succeed they need to slow things down get some employees, advertise so regular passengers know they exist, and make sensible choices when choosing new routes.

Link to the story : https://thepointsguy.com/news/eastern-a ... al-flight/


The ground staff are outsourced to the lowest bidder and just wear whatever generic uniform the vendor provides. I don’t think Eastern has any ground staff uniforms.

Only ground staff that isn't outsourced is their station manager at JFK (who is also the head of all other stations) and their maintenance manager (based at the HQ but is needed at the airport of course). An airline with an operation such as theirs cannot hire many staff inhouse. Already they have a lot of staff considering the operations that they run which is quite a minimal one from my perspective as of now.
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