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Opus99
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Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:52 pm

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... o-carrier/

Now this is interesting...

777X order to close before month end but linked to another order . Speculation is Either ANA, EVA or a big Chinese airline....
 
Ishrion
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:58 pm

Bamboo Airways?
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:00 am

Ishrion wrote:
Bamboo Airways?

I doubt. Boeing has used a 777F resale to tie the customer into a 777-9 and a 787 sale so the customer must have a freighter service.

An Eva air pilot says he thinks they’re most likely customer B. From what he’s heard in-house
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:06 am

I doubt a Chinese carrier considering the current tensions between the US and China.

ANA has the 777F, 787 and 777X on order so adding more of all three sounds reasonable.

Eva Air has the 777F and 787 and a large 777-300ER fleet so adding the 777X also sounds reasonable. An EVA Air pilot tweeted he believes they are behind this deal.
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:51 am

The "777X-a-Thon" is on right now for airlines ramping up the recovery curve. I bet there are some real sweetheart deals being offered by Boeing to new customers, "but for a limited time only!" Heck, there is almost-"Zero Percent Financing (to well-qualified customers)" going down now, too!
 
kaitak744
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:13 am

The way the article is worded, it is a new 777X customer (so not ANA) who already has 787s (the article says "additional" 787 orders).

JAL?
Air France?
KLM?
Qantas?
EVA?

(its not any Chinese airline, thats for sure)
 
Ishrion
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:26 am

kaitak744 wrote:
The way the article is worded, it is a new 777X customer (so not ANA) who already has 787s (the article says "additional" 787 orders).

JAL?
Air France?
KLM?
Qantas?
EVA?

(its not any Chinese airline, thats for sure)


Pretty sure you can rule out Qantas. They were supposed to place the A350-1000 order for Project Sunrise in March but they’re deferring upcoming deliveries and won’t order any aircraft until they return to financial stability.

JAL has 13 A350-1000s on order intended to replace 13 777-300ERs, so I’d be surprised if they go with the 777X as well.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:30 am

kaitak744 wrote:
The way the article is worded, it is a new 777X customer (so not ANA) who already has 787s (the article says "additional" 787 orders).


EVA seems to be the most logical - flies the 777F and 787 and could make a case for the 777X.

JAL and Qantas have both already decided on the A350-1000, so they are out.
Air France has switched to the A350 so no more 787s and they would be an unlikely 777X customer.
KLM does not operate the 777F so that would be a new type for them along with the 777X. So unlikely.
 
Sjtstudios
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:30 am

I agree that ANA is unlikely, with a new 787 order placed earlier this year.

EVA and Turkish are both 787 and 777f customers that have shown interest in the 777x. Ethiopian too if they are actually able to pay for an order...

Saudia could also be included, but I would guess that they are already the unidentified customer in the order book.

Korean can be included, but they ordered 30 787 last summer.

Air France just got Government assistance, unlikely that they or KLM would place a Boeing order after the “good Airbus customer” request...

kaitak744 wrote:
The way the article is worded, it is a new 777X customer (so not ANA) who already has 787s (the article says "additional" 787 orders).

JAL?
Air France?
KLM?
Qantas?
EVA?

(its not any Chinese airline, thats for sure)
 
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DBCoop3r
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:11 am

I was wondering about Boeing's big price bump on the market yesterday..
 
dstblj52
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:19 am

FLALEFTY wrote:
The "777X-a-Thon" is on right now for airlines ramping up the recovery curve. I bet there are some real sweetheart deals being offered by Boeing to new customers, "but for a limited time only!" Heck, there is almost-"Zero Percent Financing (to well-qualified customers)" going down now, too!

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TWA772LR
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:22 am

Hoping it's a US3 airline, really hoping it's United.

But it won't be :(
When wasn't America great?


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ILikeTrains
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:50 am

TWA772LR wrote:
Hoping it's a US3 airline, really hoping it's United.

But it won't be :(


Obviously Eastern Airlines is planning a massive expansion!
 
alfa164
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:27 am

kaitak744 wrote:
The way the article is worded, it is a new 777X customer (so not ANA) who already has 787s (the article says "additional" 787 orders).
JAL?
Air France?
KLM?
Qantas?
EVA?
(its not any Chinese airline, thats for sure)


EVA is, arguably, a Chinese airline. And they are the most likely candidate.


ILikeTrains wrote:
Obviously Eastern Airlines is planning a massive expansion!


Nah, they're going to pick up 100+ of Emirates 380's...


;)
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I have decided to be cremated....
 
kaitak744
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:13 am

alfa164 wrote:

EVA is, arguably, a Chinese airline. And they are the most likely candidate.



Haha..... easy there. EVA is from the country of Taiwan.
 
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precure787
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:29 am

I think new orders for 777x and/or the 777F would likely come from EVA Air, Air France-KLM, Korean Air, Air Canada, as means of replacing such older fleet. AC's 77W can carry up to 450 passengers, with a 777x, it would permit more freight operations while flying 450 passengers, having the 777X to get more cargo space.
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Opus99
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:38 am

kaitak744 wrote:
The way the article is worded, it is a new 777X customer (so not ANA) who already has 787s (the article says "additional" 787 orders).

JAL?
Air France?
KLM?
Qantas?
EVA?

(its not any Chinese airline, thats for sure)

Eva seems to be the candidate
 
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keesje
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:44 am

If it a chinese carrier 777X order, the chinese want something back, something substantial.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
ewt340
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:16 am

kaitak744 wrote:
The way the article is worded, it is a new 777X customer (so not ANA) who already has 787s (the article says "additional" 787 orders).

JAL?
Air France?
KLM?
Qantas?
EVA?

(its not any Chinese airline, thats for sure)


I would ruled out Qantas for A350-1000. KLM isn't a premium heavy airlines, their B777-300ER already carry more than 400 passengers, B777-9 would mean that they would likely to carry 440-450 passengers, which is extremely unlikely. Air France have been going on a diet and focusing on smaller widebodies, they don't have much slots restriction in CDG.

I see potential for JAL or EVA. But for JAL, they don't actually use that many large aircraft. They are using lots of B737-800, B767-300, B787-8 and B787-9. Now they have both A350 to replace most B777. So where do B777-9 fit in for them. Seems like they are focusing on smaller widebodies rather than large Widebodies.

This leaves us with EVA.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:29 am

ewt340 wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:
The way the article is worded, it is a new 777X customer (so not ANA) who already has 787s (the article says "additional" 787 orders).

JAL?
Air France?
KLM?
Qantas?
EVA?

(its not any Chinese airline, thats for sure)


I would ruled out Qantas for A350-1000. KLM isn't a premium heavy airlines, their B777-300ER already carry more than 400 passengers, B777-9 would mean that they would likely to carry 440-450 passengers, which is extremely unlikely. Air France have been going on a diet and focusing on smaller widebodies, they don't have much slots restriction in CDG.

I see potential for JAL or EVA. But for JAL, they don't actually use that many large aircraft. They are using lots of B737-800, B767-300, B787-8 and B787-9. Now they have both A350 to replace most B777. So where do B777-9 fit in for them. Seems like they are focusing on smaller widebodies rather than large Widebodies.

This leaves us with EVA.


No potential for JAL, of those listed it would have to be EVA, Large 77W fleet and also only 2 789s so I would go initial 10 77X and more 789 to replace oldest 77Ws from 2024/25.

KL/AF maybe down the line, AF do have a large 77W fleet but are let doing well, KL 77Ws are fairly young as in some brand new in the mix.
 
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:50 am

Korean Air ?
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PM
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:26 am

Could we please change the title from "to close" to "close to"? There is a teeny difference between the two.
 
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:28 am

ANA is my guess.
 
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frigatebird
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:43 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:
The way the article is worded, it is a new 777X customer (so not ANA) who already has 787s (the article says "additional" 787 orders).

JAL?
Air France?
KLM?
Qantas?
EVA?

(its not any Chinese airline, thats for sure)


I would ruled out Qantas for A350-1000. KLM isn't a premium heavy airlines, their B777-300ER already carry more than 400 passengers, B777-9 would mean that they would likely to carry 440-450 passengers, which is extremely unlikely. Air France have been going on a diet and focusing on smaller widebodies, they don't have much slots restriction in CDG.

I see potential for JAL or EVA. But for JAL, they don't actually use that many large aircraft. They are using lots of B737-800, B767-300, B787-8 and B787-9. Now they have both A350 to replace most B777. So where do B777-9 fit in for them. Seems like they are focusing on smaller widebodies rather than large Widebodies.

This leaves us with EVA.


No potential for JAL, of those listed it would have to be EVA, Large 77W fleet and also only 2 789s so I would go initial 10 77X and more 789 to replace oldest 77Ws from 2024/25.

KL/AF maybe down the line, AF do have a large 77W fleet but are let doing well, KL 77Ws are fairly young as in some brand new in the mix.


KLM was actually evaluating the 777X as 77E replacement, they needed larger aircraft as AMS ran out of slots. But that was before COVID-19 obviously, a KLM 777X order won't happen for the next few years.

TK could fit, but they have asked Boeing and Airbus to defer part of their 787 and A350 orders, so I'm not sure about them. That would leave EVA.
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LifelinerOne
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:41 am

I am hearing that EVA Airways is set to take on the three B777Fs that were originally destined for Volga Dnepr/AirBridge and now part of the dispute between Boeing and Volga.

The court sided with Boeing, clearing the way for Boeing to resell the planes to EVA, which seems to be negotiating a package deal with Boeing for these three, additional B787s and also the B777X.

Cheers! :wave:
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Aviation737
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:06 pm

What about SQ? Could there be a top up order for new 787-10 and 777X?
 
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:31 pm

Aviation737 wrote:
What about SQ? Could there be a top up order for new 787-10 and 777X?

SQ Cargo does not have any 777F. A customer taking over a bunch of new builds rather quickly points to an existing 777F operator.
 
fcogafa
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:34 pm

Qatar might be the B748F customer, they seem to take odd bits and pieces
 
IWMBH
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:13 pm

I think it’s highly unlikely that KLM orders the 777X in the near future. There still have -300ERs on order. The French government told AF that they want them to order Airbus planes so no Boeing’s for them in the near future.

Qantas intents to buy the A350. JAL already has the -1000 on order. So maybe KE?
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:21 pm

I think it’s EVA Air. An eva air pilot seems to have heard a rumour as well that its them

https://twitter.com/flyingheavy747/stat ... 99008?s=21
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:26 pm

PM wrote:
Could we please change the title from "to close" to "close to"? There is a teeny difference between the two.

Why? It seems correct the way it is written.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
DUSZRH
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:40 pm

How about Lufthansa? They wanted F’s and are a X and 787 customers.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:51 pm

DUSZRH wrote:
How about Lufthansa? They wanted F’s and are a X and 787 customers.

If you look at the wording of the court document it’s clear this customer is new to the 777X
 
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Aesma
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:56 pm

fcogafa wrote:
Qatar might be the B748F customer, they seem to take odd bits and pieces


Have they ordered Boeing aircraft since the start of the US backed Saudi embargo ?
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Polot
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:00 pm

Aesma wrote:
fcogafa wrote:
Qatar might be the B748F customer, they seem to take odd bits and pieces


Have they ordered Boeing aircraft since the start of the US backed Saudi embargo ?

They ordered 77Fs last June. I haven’t looked back to see if they ordered anything else in the past 3 years or however long the embargo has been going on now.
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:41 pm

dstblj52 wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
The "777X-a-Thon" is on right now for airlines ramping up the recovery curve. I bet there are some real sweetheart deals being offered by Boeing to new customers, "but for a limited time only!" Heck, there is almost-"Zero Percent Financing (to well-qualified customers)" going down now, too!

0 down
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.....and Boeing makes the first three payments for you :lol:
 
jbs2886
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:22 pm

Opus99 wrote:
DUSZRH wrote:
How about Lufthansa? They wanted F’s and are a X and 787 customers.

If you look at the wording of the court document it’s clear this customer is new to the 777X


Any chance you could provide a link to those? Would be interested to read.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:33 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
DUSZRH wrote:
How about Lufthansa? They wanted F’s and are a X and 787 customers.

If you look at the wording of the court document it’s clear this customer is new to the 777X


Any chance you could provide a link to those? Would be interested to read.

“In recognition of Customer’s partnership with Boeing as a 777 and 787 customer in [REDACTED], Boeing will issue to Customer a multi-model aircraft credit memorandum in the amount of [REDACTED], contingent on Customer executing definitive agreements to purchase (i) Model 777-9 aircraft and (ii) additional Model 787 aircraft no later than June 30, 2020.”

That's taken from the article. As you can see for the 787 model they use the word "additional". i believe if the customer was already a 777x customer they would've said additional 777-9 but i could be wrong
 
jbs2886
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:51 pm

Opus99 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
If you look at the wording of the court document it’s clear this customer is new to the 777X


Any chance you could provide a link to those? Would be interested to read.

“In recognition of Customer’s partnership with Boeing as a 777 and 787 customer in [REDACTED], Boeing will issue to Customer a multi-model aircraft credit memorandum in the amount of [REDACTED], contingent on Customer executing definitive agreements to purchase (i) Model 777-9 aircraft and (ii) additional Model 787 aircraft no later than June 30, 2020.”

That's taken from the article. As you can see for the 787 model they use the word "additional". i believe if the customer was already a 777x customer they would've said additional 777-9 but i could be wrong


As a lawyer, that wording would certainly have been intentional/precise...so, I agree with you. I don't have access to the article, but the Volga 77F is tied to this new order?
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:05 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

Any chance you could provide a link to those? Would be interested to read.

“In recognition of Customer’s partnership with Boeing as a 777 and 787 customer in [REDACTED], Boeing will issue to Customer a multi-model aircraft credit memorandum in the amount of [REDACTED], contingent on Customer executing definitive agreements to purchase (i) Model 777-9 aircraft and (ii) additional Model 787 aircraft no later than June 30, 2020.”

That's taken from the article. As you can see for the 787 model they use the word "additional". i believe if the customer was already a 777x customer they would've said additional 777-9 but i could be wrong


As a lawyer, that wording would certainly have been intentional/precise...so, I agree with you. I don't have access to the article, but the Volga 77F is tied to this new order?

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... o-carrier/

thats the link to the article. Yes, the 777-F order is linked to the 777x and 787 order
 
jbs2886
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:11 pm

Opus99 wrote:
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-lines-up-new-777x-and-787-orders-as-it-sells-off-jets-once-meant-for-russian-cargo-carrier/

thats the link to the article. Yes, the 777-F order is linked to the 777x and 787 order


I don't have access because it is subscription-limited. But, might as well subscribe as I have moved to Seattle. Thanks for the info!
 
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ER757
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:47 pm

Opus99 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
If you look at the wording of the court document it’s clear this customer is new to the 777X


Any chance you could provide a link to those? Would be interested to read.

“In recognition of Customer’s partnership with Boeing as a 777 and 787 customer in [REDACTED], Boeing will issue to Customer a multi-model aircraft credit memorandum in the amount of [REDACTED], contingent on Customer executing definitive agreements to purchase (i) Model 777-9 aircraft and (ii) additional Model 787 aircraft no later than June 30, 2020.”

That's taken from the article. As you can see for the 787 model they use the word "additional". i believe if the customer was already a 777x customer they would've said additional 777-9 but i could be wrong

Yeah, I was thinking maybe LH but I think you're right about the wording. Would have said "additional" on 777X as well as 787 if it was them. I really can't think of anyone else it might be other than Eva with an outside chance of Ethiopian
 
Checklist787
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:00 pm

ER757 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

Any chance you could provide a link to those? Would be interested to read.

“In recognition of Customer’s partnership with Boeing as a 777 and 787 customer in [REDACTED], Boeing will issue to Customer a multi-model aircraft credit memorandum in the amount of [REDACTED], contingent on Customer executing definitive agreements to purchase (i) Model 777-9 aircraft and (ii) additional Model 787 aircraft no later than June 30, 2020.”

That's taken from the article. As you can see for the 787 model they use the word "additional". i believe if the customer was already a 777x customer they would've said additional 777-9 but i could be wrong

Yeah, I was thinking maybe LH but I think you're right about the wording. Would have said "additional" on 777X as well as 787 if it was them. I really can't think of anyone else it might be other than Eva with an outside chance of Ethiopian


Ethiopian, I hadn't thought of it.

They were interested in 777-8's in 2016.
They didn't get the funding...
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Do it! "...
 
Checklist787
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:04 pm

Saudi Arabia?
A return of Iran Air?
Japan Airlines?
Air India?
Air Canada?
Jet Blue? ...
"No limit to my poooWer!!!
Do it! "...
 
jbs2886
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:18 pm

Checklist787 wrote:
Saudi Arabia?
A return of Iran Air?
Japan Airlines?
Air India?
Air Canada?
Jet Blue? ...


I'm sorry, Jetblue is going to get 77Fs, 777Xs, and 787s? I don't think so.

Iran is embargoed. JAL has significant Airbus orders and no cargo unit. Air India is basically bankrupt. Air Canada, maybe, but still no cargo unit.
 
Checklist787
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Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:33 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Checklist787 wrote:
Saudi Arabia?
A return of Iran Air?
Japan Airlines?
Air India?
Air Canada?
Jet Blue? ...


I'm sorry, Jetblue is going to get 77Fs, 777Xs, and 787s? I don't think so.

Iran is embargoed. JAL has significant Airbus orders and no cargo unit. Air India is basically bankrupt. Air Canada, maybe, but still no cargo unit.


I almost agree with you,

however, the ambargo with Iran is not justified. Boeing may have complained to Trump...

Okay, this is just a scenario...

For Japan Airlines this is not a solid argument the A350-900 cannot replace ALL the 777-300ER fleet even if it is not necessarily JAL.

Maybe Korean Airlines?
No wait a minute,...
... Viastara? :biggrin:
"No limit to my poooWer!!!
Do it! "...
 
xwb777
Posts: 807
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:13 pm

Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:41 pm

What if its Emirates? Replacing the A380 fleet in phases with the B777X and B789? And the B77W, with the A359 and B789? Thus they need additional frames on a better negotiated terms with Boeing, while deffering the existing orders for a few years?

These are my 02:00 am thoughts , I am not asking anyone to endorse and completely agree with them.
 
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Stitch
Posts: 27089
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:42 pm

Checklist787 wrote:
For Japan Airlines this is not a solid argument the A350-900 cannot replace ALL the 777-300ER fleet even if it is not necessarily JAL.


The A350-900 doesn't have to replace any of them considering JAL has 13 777-300ER in their active fleet and 13 A350-1000 on order. Plus they have 25 A350 family options.
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3669
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:11 pm

kaitak744 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:

EVA is, arguably, a Chinese airline. And they are the most likely candidate.



Haha..... easy there. EVA is from the country of Taiwan.


AKA officially as The Republic of China :duck:

Could SQ be a candidate for the deal (from that other predominantly Chinese country)?
come visit the south pacific
 
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Stitch
Posts: 27089
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: Boeing to close 777x and 787 order before month-end

Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:33 pm

While it is often said "pilots are the last to know about fleet purchasing decisions", I am inclined to believe the EVA Air pilot who believed it was that operator who is behind this deal. Makes the most sense of all the "usual suspects", much less the "unusual" ones.

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