UA will close FA bases in NRT, HKG, FRA

LondonXtreme · Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:43 pm

There's a rumor that UA will close base in these three airports, not sure whether they will close LHR base as well. This is a sad news because these bases has been established so long.

FSDan · Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:51 pm

Is this referring to pilot bases? FA bases? Both? I'm assuming these would be 777 bases?

jetawayusa · Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:53 pm

these are all FA bases for UA. No pilots

Ishrion · Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:55 pm

From October 1, United will be closing their HKG, NRT, and FRA crew bases. Crew can move to the U.S. if eligible. No vacancies at LHR.

”This was certainly a very difficult decision to make, and we recognize that closing any base places a hardship on those who live near those locations. In the current and future environment, we simply are not able to sustain an Inflight Base at these locations.”

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheForwardCa ... 0371937281

BravoOne · Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:56 pm

People toss these kinds of rumors out all the time with little if any substantial fatoids to back them up. Heard it from the tram driver while going to work at the airport is typical. In the mean time potential affected employees worry more about their positions.

chonetsao · Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:11 pm

BravoOne wrote:
People toss these kinds of rumors out all the time with little if any substantial fatoids to back them up. Heard it from the tram driver while going to work at the airport is typical. In the mean time potential affected employees worry more about their positions.

All the crew base closure rumour I had heard last 10 years, eventually become reality short after the rumour surfaced. I can think of many cases especially with BA, its base in HKG, SIN and others. Air New Zealand base in UK etc. The crew base closure rumour firstly come to light in airline crew forums or personal social network places before it is on A.net.

In my experience on this forum and others during last 15 years, crew base closure rumour are far more credible than new routes or new aircrafts rumours.

CONTACREW · Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:12 pm

Not a rumor. Posted internally as well as on unitedafa.org.

BravoOne · Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:24 pm

CONTACREW wrote:
Not a rumor. Posted internally as well as on unitedafa.org.

The OP said was a rumor so I responded accordingly. I suppose all these FA will not have an option to xfer to a stateside base?

Ishrion · Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:32 pm

More on this: https://liveandletsfly.com/united-closi ... ardingArea

UA444 · Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:34 pm

So incredibly sad. Those NRT and HKG FAs are the absolute best UA has to offer. By far the friendliest and most attentive.

Judge1310 · Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:36 pm

BravoOne wrote:
CONTACREW wrote:
Not a rumor. Posted internally as well as on unitedafa.org.

The OP said was a rumor so I responded accordingly. I suppose all these FA will not have an option to xfer to a stateside base?

If they have the authorisation to work in the US then they will be offered the opportunity to transfer to one of the stateside FA bases.

zakuivcustom · Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:42 pm

Doesn't surprise me from a labor cost standpoint. UA is not the only airline cutting foreign crew base anyway. For example, while UA cut HKG base, CX had already cut their YVR crew base and a few others.

I am surprise that UA actually still have a base in HKG anyway. They have what? 3 daily flights now? (This was before COVID-19). No more beyond flights from either HKG or NRT, either.

MIflyer12 · Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:57 pm

BravoOne wrote:
People toss these kinds of rumors out all the time with little if any substantial fatoids to back them up. Heard it from the tram driver while going to work at the airport is typical. In the mean time potential affected employees worry more about their positions.

This, then, would be a good lesson for employees not to gossip and rumormonger. Quality of evidence is always important.

LAXintl · Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:01 pm

This probably will be party time for some, as many U.S. based members had been calling for these bases to close.

The future of the NRT base had been up in the air for some time, as it could not serve as a co-terminal with HND meaning the new HND flying would need to be staffed from the U.S. end anyhow.
HKG has had zero activity for since almost the beginning of the year as well.

Here is the notice:

Effective October 1, 2020, we intend to close our international Inflight Services Bases at HKG (Hong Kong), NRT (Tokyo-Narita), and FRA (Frankfurt, Germany). This was certainly a very difficult decision to make, and we recognize that closing any base places a hardship on those who live near those locations. In the current and future environment, we simply are not able to sustain an Inflight Base at these locations. Based on current information, we expect flight attendants based at these locations to have the opportunity to transfer to bases located in the United States, depending on their eligibility to work in the U.S., effective with the October schedule.
We are continuing to review our base populations and will provide an update in mid-July with the expected vacancies. At this time, we do not anticipate that there will be any vacancies at our LHR (London) base. We know how difficult this news is and want to recognize the tremendous contribution to United by our flight attendants based in these locations. We can’t thank them enough for their service and we are committed to making the transition for our co-workers as easy as possible.

maverick4002 · Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:08 pm

Fill me in here. A base at these locations means citizens / people living in these cities who work for United right? So they only do flights into and out of those cities on United?

LondonXtreme · Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:11 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
Doesn't surprise me from a labor cost standpoint. UA is not the only airline cutting foreign crew base anyway. For example, while UA cut HKG base, CX had already cut their YVR crew base and a few others.

I am surprise that UA actually still have a base in HKG anyway. They have what? 3 daily flights now? (This was before COVID-19). No more beyond flights from either HKG or NRT, either.

Absolutely, there's no need for HKG base still exist. But the loss of NRT base is really sad and the majority of crews on US-NRT bound flights are NRT based crew and they can at least offer Japanese languages. In contrast, how come UA can't cut the LHR base instead of NRT? Doesn't LHR cost more?

Pinto · Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:38 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
Fill me in here. A base at these locations means citizens / people living in these cities who work for United right? So they only do flights into and out of those cities on United?

They are UA employees that are from Japan, Hong Kong, and Germany. NRT and HKG are from the Pan Am days, if I am correct.

LondonXtreme wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
Doesn't surprise me from a labor cost standpoint. UA is not the only airline cutting foreign crew base anyway. For example, while UA cut HKG base, CX had already cut their YVR crew base and a few others.

I am surprise that UA actually still have a base in HKG anyway. They have what? 3 daily flights now? (This was before COVID-19). No more beyond flights from either HKG or NRT, either.

Absolutely, there's no need for HKG base still exist. But the loss of NRT base is really sad and the majority of crews on US-NRT bound flights are NRT based crew and they can at least offer Japanese languages. In contrast, how come UA can't cut the LHR base instead of NRT? Doesn't LHR cost more?

NRT has lost a majority of its flying minus DEN, HNL, GUM, LAX ,SFO, and EWR. There really does not seem to be a need to keep a base there, especially after they stopped NRT-ICN, NRT-SIN, NRT-BKK, and NRT-SEA since the merger. I will miss those FAs, they were always super nice

as739x · Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:42 pm

LondonXtreme wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
Doesn't surprise me from a labor cost standpoint. UA is not the only airline cutting foreign crew base anyway. For example, while UA cut HKG base, CX had already cut their YVR crew base and a few others.

I am surprise that UA actually still have a base in HKG anyway. They have what? 3 daily flights now? (This was before COVID-19). No more beyond flights from either HKG or NRT, either.

Absolutely, there's no need for HKG base still exist. But the loss of NRT base is really sad and the majority of crews on US-NRT bound flights are NRT based crew and they can at least offer Japanese languages. In contrast, how come UA can't cut the LHR base instead of NRT? Doesn't LHR cost more?

There are numerous Japanese speaking FA's throughout the system, especially SFO. Language lines can easily be created to fill the need

panamair · Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:52 pm

Pinto wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:
Fill me in here. A base at these locations means citizens / people living in these cities who work for United right? So they only do flights into and out of those cities on United?

They are UA employees that are from Japan, Hong Kong, and Germany. NRT and HKG are from the Pan Am days, if I am correct.

LHR is the only Pan Am-inherited base. Pan Am did not have a TYO or HKG base; they did have BKK and SIN bases which consisted of locals who could only fly the intra-Asia routes. UA did take over the BKK and SIN bases from Pan Am but has since closed them.

Coexstud · Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:06 pm

BravoOne wrote:
People toss these kinds of rumors out all the time with little if any substantial fatoids to back them up. Heard it from the tram driver while going to work at the airport is typical. In the mean time potential affected employees worry more about their positions.

It came from ORD union

Coexstud · Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:13 pm

Pinto wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:
Fill me in here. A base at these locations means citizens / people living in these cities who work for United right? So they only do flights into and out of those cities on United?

They are UA employees that are from Japan, Hong Kong, and Germany. NRT and HKG are from the Pan Am days, if I am correct.

LondonXtreme wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
Doesn't surprise me from a labor cost standpoint. UA is not the only airline cutting foreign crew base anyway. For example, while UA cut HKG base, CX had already cut their YVR crew base and a few others.

I am surprise that UA actually still have a base in HKG anyway. They have what? 3 daily flights now? (This was before COVID-19). No more beyond flights from either HKG or NRT, either.

Absolutely, there's no need for HKG base still exist. But the loss of NRT base is really sad and the majority of crews on US-NRT bound flights are NRT based crew and they can at least offer Japanese languages. In contrast, how come UA can't cut the LHR base instead of NRT? Doesn't LHR cost more?

NRT has lost a majority of its flying minus DEN, HNL, GUM, LAX ,SFO, and EWR. There really does not seem to be a need to keep a base there, especially after they stopped NRT-ICN, NRT-SIN, NRT-BKK, and NRT-SEA since the merger. I will miss those FAs, they were always super nice

Iad too

Jamake1 · Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:15 pm

As the previous poster stated, LHR was the only crew base inherited from Pan Am. FRA, HKG, & NRT all opened 25 years ago...in the summer of ‘95. Each of the affected bases have Americans who will be able to transfer back to the N. American domiciles. Those who are not green card holders will not have that ability. The internal company memo stated that there are no vacancies at LHR. When UA closed TPE, SCL, and CDG domiciles after 9/11, the impacted F/A’s were given the choice to transfer to other international bases. This is not the case this time. The impacted F/A’s have on average 20-25 years of seniority and are all on the AFA seniority list...so this is concerning.

airportugal310 · Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:23 pm

LAXintl wrote:
This probably will be party time for some, as many U.S. based members had been calling for these bases to close.

Why do you suppose this is?

UPlog · Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:30 pm

airportugal310 wrote:
Why do you suppose this is?

Probably so U.S. bases can staff the international flying that otherwise are covered by the foreign bases.

BravoOne · Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:34 pm

I think is called greed. They want that flying for ourselves (US based), and obviously if only say 20% are eligible to transfer with the time that leaves the spoils to be divided amongst the remaining FA'S. now if there isn't any time to transfer to begin with, it becomes somewhat of a moot point. if they are on a single seniority list and separate contract that also mitigates their argument. either way kind of sad. Nothing really new here as I have seen Delta do worse by shutting down the Warsaw and Indian FA bases and letting everyone go.

Acey559 · Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:42 pm

Are these FAs AFA represented? Makes me wonder that if they’re not, and the predominance can’t or won’t transfer to US bases, then there’s some semblance of job security for US based FAs come October. Or at least a smaller number of potential furloughs.

N649DL · Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:42 pm

Forgot UA even had HKG and FRA bases still.

Can they transfer to other bases based on seniority? Or is this basically being forced to retire?

acavpics · Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:46 pm

So does this mean that UA is not going to bring back a lot of their previously operated flights at NRT, HKG, FRA?

CONTACREW · Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:48 pm

N649DL wrote:
Forgot UA even had HKG and FRA bases still.

Can they transfer to other bases based on seniority? Or is this basically being forced to retire?

Yes they can transfer to other bases if eligible and if their is vacancies in the base(s) they wish to transfer.

CONTACREW · Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:49 pm

Acey559 wrote:
Are these FAs AFA represented? Makes me wonder that if they’re not, and the predominance can’t or won’t transfer to US bases, then there’s some semblance of job security for US based FAs come October. Or at least a smaller number of potential furloughs.

Yes they are AFA represented and yes they can transfer to any base with vacancies (excluding LHR)

mmahpeel · Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:13 pm

Current FA populations for these base locations:

FRA - 229
HKG - 320
NRT - 364

Pinto · Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:14 pm

panamair wrote:
Pinto wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:
Fill me in here. A base at these locations means citizens / people living in these cities who work for United right? So they only do flights into and out of those cities on United?

They are UA employees that are from Japan, Hong Kong, and Germany. NRT and HKG are from the Pan Am days, if I am correct.

LHR is the only Pan Am-inherited base. Pan Am did not have a TYO or HKG base; they did have BKK and SIN bases which consisted of locals who could only fly the intra-Asia routes. UA did take over the BKK and SIN bases from Pan Am but has since closed them.

Thank you for the correction.

acavpics wrote:
So does this mean that UA is not going to bring back a lot of their previously operated flights at NRT, HKG, FRA?

I imagine most of it will come back eventually, there just doesn't seem a reason to keep a FA base there.

CALMSP · Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:20 pm

mmahpeel wrote:
Current FA populations for these base locations:

FRA - 229
HKG - 320
NRT - 364

what are the totals for the support staff that operate these bases?

mmahpeel · Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:24 pm

CALMSP wrote:
what are the totals for the support staff that operate these bases?

Not sure precisely but I believe somewhere between 5-10 management/admin for each of these base locations.

USAirALB · Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:59 pm

I can’t speak for FRA/NRT, but there were a good number of expat (US citizens) cabin crew in HKG. A good family friend of ours transferred from Denver to HKG years ago and stayed long enough (7 years) to become a Hong Kong Permanent Resident.

lesfalls · Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:24 pm

mmahpeel wrote:
Current FA populations for these base locations:

FRA - 229
HKG - 320
NRT - 364

How many are U.S nationals, Locals and foreign nationals (who transferred there of course)?

Jamake1 · Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:24 pm

CONTACREW wrote:
Yes they are AFA represented and yes they can transfer to any base with vacancies (excluding LHR)

No The majority of them cannot transfer because they do not have green cards. They cannot work in the US.

jayunited · Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:38 pm

Jamake1 wrote:
CONTACREW wrote:
Yes they are AFA represented and yes they can transfer to any base with vacancies (excluding LHR)

No The majority of them cannot transfer because they do not have green cards. They cannot work in the US.

UA's international bases are interesting because they are a mixture of both US nationals and locals. The locals will probably be out of a job but the US nationals can transfer to a base here in the US.

I'm not surprised to see HKG and NRT on this list. HKG will never again be what it once was for UA so you don't need 300+ FA's based at HKG. NRT also is not shocking because of HND and NRT flights attendants can not fly out of HND because its not a co-terminal. FRA is the shocker I think short term FRA will be smaller but who knows in 3 years FRA could be back to full strength I'm surprised they decided to close FRA instead of temporarily reducing the number of FA's to better match the total number of flights.

mmahpeel · Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:39 pm

lesfalls wrote:
How many are U.S nationals, Locals and foreign nationals (who transferred there of course)?

I don't know precisely, but certainly a majority do not have green cards or equivalent (citizenship etc) to enable working in the US.

Acey559 · Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:47 pm

CONTACREW wrote:
Acey559 wrote:
Are these FAs AFA represented? Makes me wonder that if they’re not, and the predominance can’t or won’t transfer to US bases, then there’s some semblance of job security for US based FAs come October. Or at least a smaller number of potential furloughs.

Yes they are AFA represented and yes they can transfer to any base with vacancies (excluding LHR)

Thanks.

mmahpeel · Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:04 pm

Hotel expense is a major consideration in determining where an airline bases crew and was usually, but not always, the driving factor at UA.

In this regard, NRT never made sense as the hotels in NRT have traditionally been quite inexpensive relative to most of the US destinations served out of NRT. For example – if you take the assignment of flying between SFO and NRT, it is much less expensive to lay a SFO-based FA at the NRT hotel versus a NRT-based FA who is at the SFO hotel. I’m talking on the magnitude of 4-5 times as much more expensive in SFO for 1 night versus NRT.

NRT itself was opened in 1996 as an immediate retaliation to a failed tentative agreement with AFA (staffing at international bases was a huge point of contention in those negotiations). And while UA used to have intra-Asia flying that NRT could fly some of, this has evaporated over the past decade or so. NRT FAs must now be assigned flying to the remaining US locations at a higher hotel cost for most of those locations.

I adore the FRA, HKG and particularly NRT crew and am quite sad for them…

rbavfan · Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:04 am

jayunited wrote:
Jamake1 wrote:
CONTACREW wrote:
Yes they are AFA represented and yes they can transfer to any base with vacancies (excluding LHR)

No The majority of them cannot transfer because they do not have green cards. They cannot work in the US.

UA's international bases are interesting because they are a mixture of both US nationals and locals. The locals will probably be out of a job but the US nationals can transfer to a base here in the US.

I'm not surprised to see HKG and NRT on this list. HKG will never again be what it once was for UA so you don't need 300+ FA's based at HKG. NRT also is not shocking because of HND and NRT flights attendants can not fly out of HND because its not a co-terminal. FRA is the shocker I think short term FRA will be smaller but who knows in 3 years FRA could be back to full strength I'm surprised they decided to close FRA instead of temporarily reducing the number of FA's to better match the total number of flights.

So what is a co-terminal ?

codc10 · Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:12 am

rbavfan wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Jamake1 wrote:

No The majority of them cannot transfer because they do not have green cards. They cannot work in the US.

UA's international bases are interesting because they are a mixture of both US nationals and locals. The locals will probably be out of a job but the US nationals can transfer to a base here in the US.

I'm not surprised to see HKG and NRT on this list. HKG will never again be what it once was for UA so you don't need 300+ FA's based at HKG. NRT also is not shocking because of HND and NRT flights attendants can not fly out of HND because its not a co-terminal. FRA is the shocker I think short term FRA will be smaller but who knows in 3 years FRA could be back to full strength I'm surprised they decided to close FRA instead of temporarily reducing the number of FA's to better match the total number of flights.

So what is a co-terminal ?

Another airport in a region (generally within driving distance) where any flight attendant assigned to a particular domicile can start/end trips. Not to be confused with a satellite base, which has certain residency requirements.

Jamake1 · Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:30 am

mmahpeel wrote:
I adore the FRA, HKG and particularly NRT crew and am quite sad for them…

The international crews at UA really elevate the United brand in their service ethic and professionalism. I include the LHR F/A’s as well. They are top notch. I am deeply saddened to hear this news.

aemoreira1981 · Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:41 am

I get why NRT and HKG are being closed...United has the equipment to now fly what used to be fifth-freedom routes to Asia from SFO, and narrow-body routes from HKG can be assigned to the GUM hub (case in point: UA suspended SIN-HKG when it launched SFO-SIN on the B789). I don't get FRA though...that really sticks out. UA will be rebounding there as that's part of the JV with LH.

I also didn't realize that UA still had a F/A base at LHR.

Jamake1 · Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:01 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
.
I also didn't realize that UA still had a F/A base at LHR.

The LHR crew base was opened in 1970 by Pan Am and came as part of United’s LHR asset purchase in 1991. There are still many former Pan Am’ers based in London, and a few who have been there since the original base opening in 1970. I was privileged to be based at LHR for 4 years...the absolute highlight of my UA career.

Pi7472000 · Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:05 am

This is devastating!!! My best flight of my life on United was HKG to SGN in F on the 747. I will always remember the crew, HKG based. Best crew I have ever had. So sad to see the friendly skies fall apart. United has been my favorite airline.

skylor · Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:27 am

I wondering what is coming for the South America bases at AA. I don’t see how they could furlough US citizens in October, but keep foreign nationals employed. It’ll definitely be interesting to see.

Blerg · Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:26 am

I wonder if this means that we will see a reduction in flights to FRA especially since UA has been expanding their European network for a while now so there is less need for transfers via Lufthansa.

EddieMunster · Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:49 am

mmahpeel wrote:
Hotel expense is a major consideration in determining where an airline bases crew and was usually, but not always, the driving factor at UA.

In this regard, NRT never made sense as the hotels in NRT have traditionally been quite inexpensive relative to most of the US destinations served out of NRT. For example – if you take the assignment of flying between SFO and NRT, it is much less expensive to lay a SFO-based FA at the NRT hotel versus a NRT-based FA who is at the SFO hotel. I’m talking on the magnitude of 4-5 times as much more expensive in SFO for 1 night versus NRT.

Is this true? I get that UA's decision is obviously cost-based, and I realize that NRT is quite a ways from Tokyo city centre, but I've spent a lot of time in Japan and hotels are generally not anywhere close to 4-5 times cheaper than in the US. United must negotiate corporate rates at SFO hotels like the Hilton, where I often see flight crews, for what, maybe $125-$150 per night? You're telling me there are hotels near NRT (not to mention Tokyo) that are less than $100 equivalent? Rooms for $40 or 4000 yen per night?

Or are you comparing the cost of putting US-based FAs in Tokyo hotels compared to the full cost of maintaining Tokyo-based employees (social costs, etc.)? That would make more sense to me. I've found SF and Tokyo hotel costs to be comparable, if not generally more expensive in Tokyo.

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