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DLHAM
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Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:25 pm

I noticed something about Pan Am's A310s. The last two delivered frames - N823PA and N824PA - delivered in June and July 1990 two years after the last A310 deliveries in 1988 have a slightly different livery than the other A310s. The Pan Am font is not as thick and slightly smaller, also the lettering does not start right behind Door 1 like on the other A310s. Also the Pan Am Globe on the tail is smaller and positioned lower and the American flag on top of the tail is different.
Does anybody know if this was a last refresh/adjustment of the Livery or maybe just a mistake?

By the way: there was no delivery for two years from 1988 on, I think one can imagine why. But why were these two delivered in 1990? I thought Pan Am's financial situation was already so bad that they were not getting new airplanes anymore. There were at least two more A310s that were not taken (N825PA Clipper Golden State and N826PA Clipper Golden West).



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SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:44 pm

DLHAM wrote:
I noticed something about Pan Am's A310s. The last two delivered frames - N823PA and N824PA - delivered in June and July 1990 two years after the last A310 deliveries in 1988 have a slightly different livery than the other A310s. The Pan Am font is not as thick and slightly smaller, also the lettering does not start right behind Door 1 like on the other A310s. Also the Pan Am Globe on the tail is smaller and positioned lower and the American flag on top of the tail is different.
Does anybody know if this was a last refresh/adjustment of the Livery or maybe just a mistake?


I can't say why it was like that, but I did notice the difference then, and never liked it, especially the tail design.


I thought Pan Am's financial situation was already so bad that they were not getting new airplanes anymore. ).


They needed to park those old and too large 747-100s and I seem to recall their Airbus fleet was on a monthly lease agreement, or something akin.
 
debonair
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Re: Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:33 pm

DLHAM wrote:
The Pan Am font is not as thick and slightly smaller, also the lettering does not start right behind Door 1 like on the other A310s. Also the Pan Am Globe on the tail is smaller and positioned lower and the American flag on top of the tail is different.
Does anybody know if this was a last refresh/adjustment of the Livery or maybe just a mistake?

No idea about the reasons behind this for PanAm. All I can tell you, other airlines moved their titles away from the door so the brand can be better seen, is more visible, when a jetbridge is attached to the plane. The jetbridge would have definetley covered the letter P.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:11 am

The N-number is also painted in black instead of blue.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
Rudenko
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Re: Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:41 am

My guess is that Airbus delivered them all white and Pan Am painted them at their facilities. Perhaps cheaper?
There is also a photo on here of an ex Eastern A300 which PA acquired and painted in the same scheme.
It looks like they used a 727 template and globe perhaps?
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:03 am

A310 is so short that looks like a narrowbody
 
KFTG
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Re: Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:13 am

Which "end" are you referring to?
 
BAeRJ100
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Re: Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:29 am

KFTG wrote:
Which "end" are you referring to?


I think we all know it's referring to the end of the first/most well-known iteration of Pan Am.
B737/738/739/744ER/752/753/763/77L/77W/788/789
A223/320/321/332/333/346/359/388
MD82/MD88/717/F100/RJ85/RJ100/146-100/200/300
E175/190/CRJ700/900
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:09 am

[list=][/list]
Rudenko wrote:
My guess is that Airbus delivered them all white and Pan Am painted them at their facilities. Perhaps cheaper?
There is also a photo on here of an ex Eastern A300 which PA acquired and painted in the same scheme.
It looks like they used a 727 template and globe perhaps?


May be. But the or some of the first A310s must have been delivered already painted. Heres a picture of N805/6/7PA sitting at Hamburg in December 1985 before delivery -- according to airfleets these two officially entered Pan Am in Feb 1986, originally built for Kuwait Airways.



Here is one of these shortly after delivery but most likely in service already. Seems like they missed their Clipper Names for a certain time.

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SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:50 am

Rudenko wrote:
My guess is that Airbus delivered them all white and Pan Am painted them at their facilities. Perhaps cheaper?
There is also a photo on here of an ex Eastern A300 which PA acquired and painted in the same scheme.
It looks like they used a 727 template and globe perhaps?


The A300 also arrived in 1990, perhaps did they began to introduce a modified livery. Even the flag is smaller and moved forward on the tail. These deliveries in 1990 happened before August 2nd, a date that would change PA's fortune for good.

 
Max Q
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Re: Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:57 pm

Never liked those billboard titles, looked garish and unattractive


The older, understated livery used on their 747’s on delivery was outstanding, elegant and attractive
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:06 pm

I remember seeing one or more 747's painted with the billboard titles but retained the cheat line. I think this was an interim livery transitioning from the old to the billboard. On a separate note, flew out of ZRH to ORD in January 1992 on an AA 767-200ER and remember being parked alongside a JFK bound ex-Pan Am A310-300 wearing an all white livery with just DELTA painted above the forward door, in small letters. Some of the A310's got the full Delta widget livery, but the type was gone by the mid-1990s and replaced with more 767-300ERs.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:30 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
I remember seeing one or more 747's painted with the billboard titles but retained the cheat line. I think this was an interim livery transitioning from the old to the billboard.

I believe it was a test livery. As you can see the cheatline wasn't the same as on the old livery.

Here the same aircraft with three different liveries.



On a separate note, flew out of ZRH to ORD in January 1992 on an AA 767-200ER and remember being parked alongside a JFK bound ex-Pan Am A310-300 wearing an all white livery with just DELTA painted above the forward door, in small letters. Some of the A310's got the full Delta widget livery, but the type was gone by the mid-1990s and replaced with more 767-300ERs.


All 30 A310s that ever served with DL got the full widget livery.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:41 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
I remember seeing one or more 747's painted with the billboard titles but retained the cheat line. I think this was an interim livery transitioning from the old to the billboard.

I believe it was a test livery. As you can see the cheatline wasn't the same as on the old livery.

Here the same aircraft with three different liveries.



On a separate note, flew out of ZRH to ORD in January 1992 on an AA 767-200ER and remember being parked alongside a JFK bound ex-Pan Am A310-300 wearing an all white livery with just DELTA painted above the forward door, in small letters. Some of the A310's got the full Delta widget livery, but the type was gone by the mid-1990s and replaced with more 767-300ERs.


All 30 A310s that ever served with DL got the full widget livery.


Thanks @SpaceshipDC10! The middle photo of the Pan Am 747 is the one I was referring to. Yes, seems more like a test livery as the cheat line seems wider than the old standard one.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:00 pm

One of the major things that showed Pan Am had no clear strategy was the livery was inconsistent for decades. Titles became bigger, fonts were changed, names were swapped frequently. Nothing was consistent.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:16 pm

Both of these late 89/90 deliveries to Pan Am have black N-numbers and gray painted Clipper names. The words Pan and Am are also spaced closer together on this 727.

This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
FGITD
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Re: Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:44 pm

skipness1E wrote:
One of the major things that showed Pan Am had no clear strategy was the livery was inconsistent for decades. Titles became bigger, fonts were changed, names were swapped frequently. Nothing was consistent.


A pretty incredible feat when you consider that decades after their demise, the Pan Am logo is still a widely recognized piece of branding. A powerful logo known around the world and they still couldn't figure out how to paint it on an airplane. Shame it's on boxcars and rail engines these days.

TWA seemed to have a similar problem towards the end
 
jimmy9irons
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Re: Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:15 pm

Why did Pan Am change which aircraft were called Clippers? Surely once christened an aircraft should retain that name. Airlines today that name aircraft do not change the aircraft once named.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:14 am

jimmy9irons wrote:
Why did Pan Am change which aircraft were called Clippers? Surely once christened an aircraft should retain that name. Airlines today that name aircraft do not change the aircraft once named.


I believe Pan Am wasn't the only airline doing that.
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:16 pm

FGITD wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
One of the major things that showed Pan Am had no clear strategy was the livery was inconsistent for decades. Titles became bigger, fonts were changed, names were swapped frequently. Nothing was consistent.


A pretty incredible feat when you consider that decades after their demise, the Pan Am logo is still a widely recognized piece of branding. A powerful logo known around the world and they still couldn't figure out how to paint it on an airplane.



I have a Pan Am bag which I use as my hand luggage when I fly. I always get compliments from cabin crew that they love my bag and hear their sighs of nostalgia. From KLM cabin crew I often hear that my bag is the right color but has the wrong logo on it :lol:

To me the final Pan Am billboard livery has always felt a bit like a scream of desperation: "don't you guys know who we are anymore? We are Pan Am, the Pan Am of the jet age that you used to love! Please come fly with us again! :("

I know that's of course not the idea behind it, but to me it felt a little bit that way. I mean, towards the end everything that could go wrong did go wrong with Pan Am.
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
FGITD
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Re: Pan Am - new/modified livery at the end?

Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:27 pm

PANAMsterdam wrote:
FGITD wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
One of the major things that showed Pan Am had no clear strategy was the livery was inconsistent for decades. Titles became bigger, fonts were changed, names were swapped frequently. Nothing was consistent.


A pretty incredible feat when you consider that decades after their demise, the Pan Am logo is still a widely recognized piece of branding. A powerful logo known around the world and they still couldn't figure out how to paint it on an airplane.



I have a Pan Am bag which I use as my hand luggage when I fly. I always get compliments from cabin crew that they love my bag and hear their sighs of nostalgia. From KLM cabin crew I often hear that my bag is the right color but has the wrong logo on it :lol:

To me the final Pan Am billboard livery has always felt a bit like a scream of desperation: "don't you guys know who we are anymore? We are Pan Am, the Pan Am of the jet age that you used to love! Please come fly with us again! :("

I know that's of course not the idea behind it, but to me it felt a little bit that way. I mean, towards the end everything that could go wrong did go wrong with Pan Am.


Back when I was in pax service I used to love seeing stuff like that. TWA passport covers, Pan Am bags, Eastern labels, etc etc. Made some of my colleagues feel real old when we were discussing "vintage" airline stuff, And in fact some of them Had worked for those companies early on in their careers.


Pan Am was a bit of a holdover from the adventurous days of aviation. They were the first to do so many things, and set the standard, but never seemed to be able to keep up once the competition caught up to them. Still though, sure wish they were still around leading the way.

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