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SueD
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:35 am

Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:27 pm

SurlyBonds wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Vienna on the other hand... OS reminds me a bit of Iznogoud. I want to be Lufthansa in stead of Lufthansa.


Re-phrase in plain German, please?


From what I remember Iznogaud is a French satirical comic in which the lead character is a Grand Vizier of Baghdad and utters the words - I want to be Caliph in place of the Caliph - BTW The pun is pronounce the name in English Is no good !

Nought to do with aviation though
 
MartijnNL
Posts: 999
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:44 am

Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:29 pm

Blerg wrote:
Is the railway system really that competitive in Europe? I remember some years ago I had to travel to northern Netherlands (Franker) and then to the south (Maastricht). Both times I flew into AMS from where I took a train to my final destination. Personally, it was horrible with so many stops, change of trains and so on.

From Schiphol you can take a direct intercity train to Leeuwarden and then change to a local train to Franeker. The intercity to the North takes two hours and ten minutes and makes seven stops along the way. The longest wait takes five minutes, one is two minutes, two are one minute and three are less than one minute. So a total waiting time of ten minutes. I have taken this route many times for almost thirty years now. Personally I like it a lot. The further north you get, the more space and less people you see. It's all about perception.
 
MartijnNL
Posts: 999
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Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:54 pm

PM wrote:
Things are changing. "Normal" isn't going to come back.

How do you know at this point? Air pollution levels in Paris are almost back to what they used to be. Factories in China are already producing as much as they did before this crisis. Schools in the Netherlands are back to normal.

PM wrote:
Many people hope and believe that we will come out of the pandemic with different priorities. It is hoped that we can become greener.

Many more people just hope they can return to normal as soon as possible. Many people in the Netherlands have moved away from public transportation, where the use of face masks is required, and are travelling more by car and motorcycle. So far, not good.

PM wrote:
Measures to discourage people from flying unnecessarily may become popular.

Who will decide what unnecessary flying is? Personally I would ban all business trips and only allow leisure travel.
 
MartijnNL
Posts: 999
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:44 am

Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:06 pm

VSMUT wrote:
And face it, nobody likes being squashed into a turboprop or CRJ for a ridiculous 30 minute flight.

The people I met in Norway on 8 min DHC-8 flights seemed happy. And so did the people in Alaska on 10 min B737 flights. Personally I love short flights in small aircraft. Especially when they cross fjords or mountains. I also love long flights in big aircraft. And everything in between.
 
MartijnNL
Posts: 999
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Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:39 pm

SueD wrote:
It's 4 ½ hours by train from Vienna to Munich while Vienna to Milan takes about 14 hours (change in Switzerland) and Vienna to Berlin about 9 hours, even Vienna to Zurich is the best part of 8 hours.

Those are long travel times. The train certainly offers no real competition on the last three routes. I was surprised to find out Zurich actually is closer to Amsterdam than to Vienna.

SueD wrote:
Might seem a small and central country on a typical map however geographical and geological elements can make for ground travel difficulties and well somewhat time consuming- Oh and Vienna is right at the wrong end of the country when it comes to the rest of the EU.

No arguing about that, indeed.

VSMUT wrote:
One thing follows the other. Investments in proper rail infrastructure need to be viable, and as long as airlines are undercutting railways, it just won't happen. Flights need to be curbed to make rail investments viable.

Flights need to be curbed? What about railways need to offer competitive prices? Currently a 100 mile train trip can be more expensive than a 900 mile flight.

VSMUT wrote:
Every single point you listed was valid for Germany, France and Switzerland as well. They took the necessary steps, and now nobody flies between Frankfurt and Köln or Zürich and Lugano.

Certainly not comparable at all. Cologne - Frankfurt and Zurich - Lugano are much shorter distances than Vienna - Zurich or Vienna - Milan.
 
MartijnNL
Posts: 999
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:44 am

Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:03 pm

jhz94 wrote:
It is ridiculous that you for the same price as taking the train or a taxi to the airport can fly from Scandinavia to the Canaries nowadays.

That's indeed ridiculous. Those trains and taxis are much too expensive. The government should do something about it.
 
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WildcatYXU
Posts: 3192
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Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:08 pm

Sokes wrote:
Will flights will be dropped if the train takes eight hours, just because there is extra tax? There may be reduced frequency. The criteria for dropping city pairs is three hours rail travel from Vienna airport railway station.
But agreed, I was wrong. There is a 350 km criteria.


Will there be extra tax on those flights if these are a part of a long haul itinerary? Honestly, I'm sick and tired of being taxed left and right. So I'm off to flying LO through WAW on my family visits anyway.
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 753, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
Sokes
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Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:53 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Furthermore, the train from Vienna airport to Graz city centre takes exactly 3h00 - not sure if this is categorised as "continue as normal" or "must be taxed heavily". I think the rule applies only to routes with a train to VIE *under* 3 hours, so Vienna-Graz would not be affected for now.

I'm quite confident the railway will manage to cut two minutes.

davidjohnson6 wrote:
If I was not so cynical, I would say the 350 km and 3h00 rules have been chosen very precisely with specific routes in mind... namely that VIE-Salzburg may end up being the only route to lose air service
The fact that Salzburg has a direct train every hour to Vienna airport (and thus LH/OS would perhaps prefer passengers to go by train and not to have to Q400s on this route - which are all due to be sent to the scrapper in 2021) is of course purely coincidental

Or - to be more blunt - this is a load of green-wash to make the Austrian Govt look good in public, while enforcing in law the plans that LH/OS had wanted to put in place anyway

I agree it's pointless to fly from Salzburg to Vienna. But why would OS want the government to prohibit them to fly to Salzburg? They could reduce frequency and fly with an E-Jet or simply say they drop the route.
Price conscious people who want to go to Vienna may moreover switch to buses if rail connection is bad and the distance is below 350 km. Keep in mind the thirty minutes from airport to city.

GLANKG wrote:
Anti-dumping regulation aside, Austria introduced a 12 EUR flight tax immediately, and a 30 EUR tax for short flights.
AUA flies around 150 weekly flights to destinations within 350 km,
GRZ
SZG
KLU
PRG
BUD
KSC
KRK
ZAG

Train timings to Vienna airport. Those who have Vienna as destination may be able to deduct 30min for Vienna main station to Vienna airport.
source: https://tickets.oebb.at/en/ticket/timetable
GRZ=Graz: train 2n59m to 3h01m
SZG=Salzburg: train 2h49m t0 3h15m
KLU=Klagenfurt train: 4h8min -5h20m
PRG=Prague: train more than 8h
BUD=Budapest: train 3h17m to 4h17m
KSC=Kosice (Slovakia): train more than 11h
KRK=Krakow: train more than 11h
ZAG=Zagreb: train more than 8h39m

Potentially better by bus:
Klagenfurt to Vienna city: 4h,
Prague to Vienna city: 4h15m
Kosice to Vienna city: around 8h daytime, 11h night bus. Flights can't be replaced by train or bus.
Krakow to Vienna city: 7h to 9h. Flights can't be replaced by train or bus.
Zagreb to Vienna city: from 4h50m

From eight destinations, four can be replaced by train. Prague with 4h15m can be replaced by bus. Zagreb with 4h50m can be replaced by bus for most people.
Only Kosice and Krakow can't be replaced by train or bus. I believe there is no green wash by the Austrian government.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
Toinou
Posts: 296
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Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:20 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
It is remarkable that VIE-MUC is 359 km, or just over 350 km. This therefore means that Austrian can continue to fly to Munich without breaching any rules
Furthermore, the train from Vienna airport to Graz city centre takes exactly 3h00 - not sure if this is categorised as "continue as normal" or "must be taxed heavily". I think the rule applies only to routes with a train to VIE *under* 3 hours, so Vienna-Graz would not be affected for now. And I imagine OBB, the Austrain train company will not choose to make the VIE-Graz timetable faster until 2027 when the Semmering Base Tunnel opens - cutting VIE-Graz to about 2h30

If I was not so cynical, I would say the 350 km and 3h00 rules have been chosen very precisely with specific routes in mind... namely that VIE-Salzburg may end up being the only route to lose air service [...]

Or - to be more blunt - this is a load of green-wash to make the Austrian Govt look good in public, while enforcing in law the plans that LH/OS had wanted to put in place anyway

You are probably on something here.
A similar way of thinking was displayed in France where government announced that Air France was to stop domestic flights that can be replaced by train trips under 2h30. Commentators quickly noticed that many of the most profitable domestic routes were on train trips of between 2h30 and 3h...
 
GLANKG
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:19 am

Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:54 am

Blerg wrote:
LO and BUD can affect those 22% which is not negligible, it's almost a quarter of all traffic. For Austrian Airlines those transfers matter because they help them fill some seats in markets where they face fierce competition from LCCs. I can only imagine how happy OS management was to find out Wizz Air is launching Bucharest and Brussels, two very important markets for them. You make it sound as if nothing matters as nothing can negatively impact Austrian Airlines.


LO/BUD development does affect OS, but just trivial, for two reasons:

1. CEE market in OS revenue segment is not as large as you might have thought, although LHG only provides group revenue by sector, you could still find figures from pre takeover OS annual reports, it shows CEE contributes to 14.2% of the total revenue, while Germany alone accounts for 11.8% (254m Euro), Austria and Switzerland stand for 6.8%.

2. OS/VIE naturally competes with other European hubs, but each to what extend? In comparison to LO/BUD, MUC affects VIE more, in addition to transfer traffic, LHG also ferry Austria local traffic through MUC. And LH at MUC grew more than OS at VIE in recent years, in 2008 OS/VIE had almost twice many CEE destinations as MUC (43 vs 23), today they are even, but with the new LHG guarantee to VIE hub in place, the trend won’t continue at least. As for LO, I think its expansion is largely built on economic development from Visegrád states (and Poland’s population). The region is poorer thus more growth potential, and upwards market capacity potential, last year OS actually recorded double digits growth in eastern Europe would you believe it.

I don’t mean OS won’t be affected by LO at all, but I think you exaggerate the level, perhaps the new flight tax could have more impact on OS finance, and if they drop GRZ, that’s many of the 131k annual passengers on VIE-GRZ turning to FRA/MUC.

P.S. since you like to moan about OS’s profitability, I had a look at LO and their profit is just half of OS’s despite having a larger fleet. (I didn’t find LOT’s 2019 EBIT so used figures from the previous two years)
Last edited by GLANKG on Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
GLANKG
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:19 am

Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:01 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Furthermore, the train from Vienna airport to Graz city centre takes exactly 3h00 - not sure if this is categorised as "continue as normal" or "must be taxed heavily". I think the rule applies only to routes with a train to VIE *under* 3 hours, so Vienna-Graz would not be affected for now.


I could be wrong, but my understanding is that all routes under 350 km will be subject to 30 Euro tax.
Routes could be reached by train under 3 hours are encouraged to be dropped in favour of train, but that's not mandatory.
So all routes can resume, you just need to apply new tax.
 
alm1
Posts: 76
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Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:03 am

Today Wizz Air has a promotion:

Say YES to our charming fares
200,000 seats at €9.99 to and from Austria today*! Don't miss your chance to secure one of the seats! wizzair.com


Lots of seats at 10, far below those taxes :)
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4678
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:31 am

MartijnNL wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
And face it, nobody likes being squashed into a turboprop or CRJ for a ridiculous 30 minute flight.

The people I met in Norway on 8 min DHC-8 flights seemed happy. And so did the people in Alaska on 10 min B737 flights. Personally I love short flights in small aircraft. Especially when they cross fjords or mountains. I also love long flights in big aircraft. And everything in between.


That's not really comparable. Geographical limitations mean that alternative methods of transportation in Norway and Alaska can involve several days of travel. I bet they don't have to subject themselves to wasting several hours in a captive-audience shopping mall or be subject to extensive security either.


MartijnNL wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
One thing follows the other. Investments in proper rail infrastructure need to be viable, and as long as airlines are undercutting railways, it just won't happen. Flights need to be curbed to make rail investments viable.

Flights need to be curbed? What about railways need to offer competitive prices? Currently a 100 mile train trip can be more expensive than a 900 mile flight.


What about airlines start paying the true cost of establishing infrastructure like railways do? Airlines have been relying on airports, authorities and navigation aids that were paid by taxpayers. Railways are for some reason held to different, higher standards and have to cover the costs themselves.


MartijnNL wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Every single point you listed was valid for Germany, France and Switzerland as well. They took the necessary steps, and now nobody flies between Frankfurt and Köln or Zürich and Lugano.

Certainly not comparable at all. Cologne - Frankfurt and Zurich - Lugano are much shorter distances than Vienna - Zurich or Vienna - Milan.


Maybe so, but Berlin - München is just over 600 km, and can now by done slightly faster by train than by plane.
 
afgeneral
Posts: 136
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:43 pm

Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:15 am

mileduets wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Train from Vienna to Zagreb takes forever. Laughable to suggest this is acceptable to business travelers instead of a flight.
But this is what you get if Virtue Signaling is more important than common sense.


Losing a day on a train is not acceptable for a North American VFR traveler either. Time is at premium when we are over there.


Stop thinking day travel. Take a night train and save on hotel accommodation. Leave in the evening and arrive early in the morning. Sleeping on a train in a two person compartment is actually pretty comfortable. The network is growing again after almost all connections were abandoned (Trenitalia, SBB, DB...). Austria's ÖBB is actually offering the most connections of any European train operators.
https://www.nightjet.com/de/dam/jcr:6a8 ... z-2020.pdf


Sure, arrive at 7AM 5 hours before restaurants open and 8 hours before hotel checkin time. That way you can experience being homeless (no shower, carrying bags with you everywhere) for 7 hours in the city you are visiting.
 
OSL777FLYER
Posts: 164
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Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:41 am

MartijnNL wrote:
OSL777FLYER wrote:
This will benefit Bratislava. LH might not want to continue with the OS brand. And people will not want to travel to Vienna for a weekend getaway.

People will not want to travel to Vienna, because the air fare has a minimum price of 40,00 EUR? What kind of people are we talking about? Poor people or budget conscious people? I think Vienna would do perfectly fine without those people.

From Amsterdam, the airport I used to fly out before the corona problems, Austrian and KLM usually offer 109,00 EUR return tickets to Vienna. I would happily pay these fares instead of looking for cheaper tickets on LCC's.



I would do the same as you. I try to stick to the legacy carriers when I can. What I am saying is that some people looking at a getaway, will probably look for another place. Some airlines advertise flights to the VIE area for sometimes under half that tax. Or fly into Bratislava, then go by taxi or bus.

Someone talked about a law in Germany, which law would this be? Germany did indeed impose an air passenger duty a few years ago which has been contested a lot. But no minimum on airfares as far as I know.

LH has also discontinued some services due to the advent of high-speed rail. One such connection was CGN-FRA, which makes sense. The flight only took about 20 minutes in the air, 45-50 on the schedule, but more importantly it took up a slot at FRA. This was a flight that LH said would be discontinued once the ICE Express train arrived in 2005-ish.

The train travels from FRA to the Cologne main railway station in about 55 minutes.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4678
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:01 am

afgeneral wrote:
mileduets wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:

Losing a day on a train is not acceptable for a North American VFR traveler either. Time is at premium when we are over there.


Stop thinking day travel. Take a night train and save on hotel accommodation. Leave in the evening and arrive early in the morning. Sleeping on a train in a two person compartment is actually pretty comfortable. The network is growing again after almost all connections were abandoned (Trenitalia, SBB, DB...). Austria's ÖBB is actually offering the most connections of any European train operators.
https://www.nightjet.com/de/dam/jcr:6a8 ... z-2020.pdf


Sure, arrive at 7AM 5 hours before restaurants open and 8 hours before hotel checkin time. That way you can experience being homeless (no shower, carrying bags with you everywhere) for 7 hours in the city you are visiting.


They do have showers on those trains. Bags can be deposited safely at all major railway stations. It isn't hard to find cafes that are open in the morning. I fail to see how those are not an issue if you arrive on an early morning flight.
 
JibberJim
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:33 pm

Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:49 am

MartijnNL wrote:
People will not want to travel to Vienna, because the air fare has a minimum price of 40,00 EUR? What kind of people are we talking about? Poor people or budget conscious people? I think Vienna would do perfectly fine without those people.


A lot of weekend tourists particularly have no particular interest in visiting any place, they just look at fares and pick an interesting place to go, the cheap fare is no indication of their spending once they're there, it's just a way of discriminating. Cheaper fares from big European cities aren't capturing demand that previously couldn't travel, they're just moving it from other destinations (including where the destination is staying at home and going out in your own city)

By stimulating that demand, it also means you can run routes which would not otherwise exist at all of course, so losing those who want the cheap price might also lose you many others who won't waste time changing planes.
 
Toinou
Posts: 296
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:21 am

Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:52 pm

VSMUT wrote:
afgeneral wrote:
mileduets wrote:

Stop thinking day travel. Take a night train and save on hotel accommodation. Leave in the evening and arrive early in the morning. Sleeping on a train in a two person compartment is actually pretty comfortable. The network is growing again after almost all connections were abandoned (Trenitalia, SBB, DB...). Austria's ÖBB is actually offering the most connections of any European train operators.
https://www.nightjet.com/de/dam/jcr:6a8 ... z-2020.pdf


Sure, arrive at 7AM 5 hours before restaurants open and 8 hours before hotel checkin time. That way you can experience being homeless (no shower, carrying bags with you everywhere) for 7 hours in the city you are visiting.


They do have showers on those trains. Bags can be deposited safely at all major railway stations. It isn't hard to find cafes that are open in the morning. I fail to see how those are not an issue if you arrive on an early morning flight.

Adding to that, I have yet to find an hotel that will not accept to keep your luggage until your room is ready.
And frankly, normally, when you go to a city, whether it's for business or tourism, you usually have other things to do than stay at your hotel or in a restaurant.
 
lhrnue
Posts: 376
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:15 pm

In my experience the biggest problem of international train travel in Europe is that buying tickets is still far too complicated.
 
hohd
Posts: 942
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:21 pm

Train travel in Europe is fairly expensive, often more expensive than planes, no wonder there are many buses. For point to point air travel of 350 km or less it might make sense only if there is a comparable train service for 3 hours or less.
 
JesusProtects
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:51 pm

Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:36 pm

Planes are not Trains biggest threat on these shorter distances. Buses and EV cars either owned or rented are. For the car you'll charge it up the night before at a cost of next to nothing. Charge at the destination or along the way and head home again. Government support of expensive rail and expensive flag carrier airlines is only putting off the day when their problems needs to be faced up to.
 
Toinou
Posts: 296
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:21 am

Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:45 pm

lhrnue wrote:
In my experience the biggest problem of international train travel in Europe is that buying tickets is still far too complicated.

Can you elaborate on that?
I live in Switzerland and for most travel, I can just the Swiss railway website or go to the station and ask for a ticket. How can that be complicated?
There may be a few issues, but only about very long or unusual trips.
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 952
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:47 pm

Could I gently encourage people to move the topic back to minimum pricing on flights that involve Austria ? We seem to have got a bit side tracked on overnight trains...
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4678
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:58 pm

Toinou wrote:
lhrnue wrote:
In my experience the biggest problem of international train travel in Europe is that buying tickets is still far too complicated.

Can you elaborate on that?
I live in Switzerland and for most travel, I can just the Swiss railway website or go to the station and ask for a ticket. How can that be complicated?
There may be a few issues, but only about very long or unusual trips.


To be fair, he is right, it has been overly complicated to buy tickets for cross-border trains, and it still is in many parts of Europe. Switzerland, Germany, France and Austria have gotten it, but you don't have to go any further than Denmark before it starts acting up.
 
ewt340
Posts: 1285
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:59 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
OSL777FLYER wrote:
This will benefit Bratislava. LH might not want to continue with the OS brand. And people will not want to travel to Vienna for a weekend getaway.

People will not want to travel to Vienna, because the air fare has a minimum price of 40,00 EUR? What kind of people are we talking about? Poor people or budget conscious people? I think Vienna would do perfectly fine without those people.

From Amsterdam, the airport I used to fly out before the corona problems, Austrian and KLM usually offer 109,00 EUR return tickets to Vienna. I would happily pay these fares instead of looking for cheaper tickets on LCC's.


I'd rather fly on LCC for less price than paying for €109 flight on full service airlines. A slice of preheat pizza or cold sandwiches are redundant on short flights anyway.
 
Toinou
Posts: 296
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:21 am

Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:30 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Toinou wrote:
lhrnue wrote:
In my experience the biggest problem of international train travel in Europe is that buying tickets is still far too complicated.

Can you elaborate on that?
I live in Switzerland and for most travel, I can just the Swiss railway website or go to the station and ask for a ticket. How can that be complicated?
There may be a few issues, but only about very long or unusual trips.


To be fair, he is right, it has been overly complicated to buy tickets for cross-border trains, and it still is in many parts of Europe. Switzerland, Germany, France and Austria have gotten it, but you don't have to go any further than Denmark before it starts acting up.

Once again, you're not providing precise information, just an opinion.
France is NOT a country with the easiest ticketing system, like Spain or Italy.
You can get a ticket to travel to most western European country through many websites (like you would for plane tickets, with the same annoying differences). It is usually easier if you use the site of the departure country's national railway or one of the sites easier to use (German, Austrian and Swiss ones come to mind, as you said). You learn that pretty quickly if you start to travel by train, like you learn quickly how to buy a plane ticket.
 
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SQ22
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Re: Austria to introduce minimum price for plane tickets

Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:00 pm

This thread went off topic and will be locked.

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