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PA12
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon May 25, 2020 1:15 am

I hope they don’t drop ELP. It would be nice if they had a tag on from ABQ or TUS, and keep the n/s to SEA.
 
gmcc
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon May 25, 2020 5:32 am

I might be able to add a little color to the GEG-SJC add. I think that route has been a WN exclusive for several years. AS might be trying to preemptively turning the screws on WN. AS did something similar on the SNA-SFO route and managed to chase WN off of it. It could also provide connections to the BA SJC-LHR if it returns as well providing another connection stop to Hawaii if it returns.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon May 25, 2020 6:05 am

gmcc wrote:
I might be able to add a little color to the GEG-SJC add. I think that route has been a WN exclusive for several years. AS might be trying to preemptively turning the screws on WN. AS did something similar on the SNA-SFO route and managed to chase WN off of it. It could also provide connections to the BA SJC-LHR if it returns as well providing another connection stop to Hawaii if it returns.


WN lost over half it's temporary slots at SNA due to reallocation by the airport.
SFO delays and SNA strict curfew just made since to eliminate it and double down on SJC and OAK.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
JayWings
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon May 25, 2020 5:37 pm

Happy to see new routes added to the Alaska map! I’m hopeful that AS is one of the better positioned airlines to return from this pandemic nightmare. I think pulling down some high profile but currently unprofitable transcon routes is a smart way to slow the cash burn. The real test with any airline will be how deeply the cuts go in October when the CARES funds dry up.
 
tphuang
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:41 pm

This qualifies as pretty large news
https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/new ... force.html
expecting to be 20% smaller by next summer.
expecting to be 35 to 50% smaller by this winter
13% work reduction.
 
williaminsd
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:43 pm

tphuang wrote:
This qualifies as pretty large news
https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/new ... force.html
expecting to be 20% smaller by next summer.
expecting to be 35 to 50% smaller by this winter
13% work reduction.


While caution moving forward is only prudent, this article offers few, if any, specifics, and nothing that could even remotely be considered a guarantee. He makes clear everything he says is subject to change pending economic recovery. The hed itself says that the company "may" be facing up to a 13% workforce reduction, and that is immediately qualified as being based on "working assumptions that may change."

I don't know... are any contract negotiations coming up? Has management hinted at wanting to renegotiate any existing contract due to this "crisis?" Are they planning to offer any early retirement packages to further cut costs? This sounds more like a shot across the bow than the wielding of an axe.
 
n7371f
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:55 am

WN has only operated the GEG-SJC nonstop for a couple of years, if that. But, yes, a small competitive move by AS in GEG after years of ignoring the market with just running everything over SEA and PDX while WN added nonstops to SJC, SMF, SAN (although SAN is not coming back - at least for the winter). Should also mention AS will get GEG-BOI to themselves as WN is dropping GEG-BOI after nearly 25 years.

gmcc wrote:
I might be able to add a little color to the GEG-SJC add. I think that route has been a WN exclusive for several years. AS might be trying to preemptively turning the screws on WN. AS did something similar on the SNA-SFO route and managed to chase WN off of it. It could also provide connections to the BA SJC-LHR if it returns as well providing another connection stop to Hawaii if it returns.
 
birdup
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Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:36 pm

Didn’t see an existing topic on this announcement.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... s-of-jobs/


Alaska Airlines projects a slow recovery from the rapid decline in air travel due to the coronavirus pandemic, and it’s preparing to shed as many as 3,000 jobs from its 23,000-strong work force.

“Things will likely not go back to pre-COVID levels in the next 12 months,” said Alaska Air Group president Ben Minicucci in a video interview. “We see a smaller company in 2021. We see a smaller industry, in fact. We think we’ll be smaller by about 3,000 people.”



On the MAX:


Minicucci said it’s hard to say now if the airline will take any MAXs in 2020.

“We haven’t made firm decisions,” he said. “Long term, we’ll have MAXs in the Alaska fleet, for sure. We’re big Boeing supporters.”

 
RTNOBLE
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Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:27 pm

With an overall downturn how do we see PAE faring with capacity cuts? Would be a shame to see service reductions to such a new operation.
 
iamlucky13
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Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:40 pm

RTNOBLE wrote:
With an overall downturn how do we see PAE faring with capacity cuts? Would be a shame to see service reductions to such a new operation.


It has been cut significantly more than other locations, but the airport was doing generally well before the pandemic hit. I'm confident they'll bring most or all of the flights at PAE back once SEA volume picks up again.

The PAE terminal owner is currently using the low flight rate to do some ramp work that is necessary long term. Continued investment on their part suggests positive discussions with the airlines.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:49 pm

QX is flying many routes that were previously AS mainline and QX hasn't seem much in the way of cuts. Until the mainline jets return to most all AS routes it'll be harder for QX to return to previous service levels at PAE.
 
chrisp390
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Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:15 am

Do the 737's still say "Proudly all Boeing" or has that been removed now that they have had Airbus and Embraer in the fleet for 2+ years?
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:02 am

iamlucky13 wrote:
RTNOBLE wrote:
With an overall downturn how do we see PAE faring with capacity cuts? Would be a shame to see service reductions to such a new operation.


It has been cut significantly more than other locations, but the airport was doing generally well before the pandemic hit. I'm confident they'll bring most or all of the flights at PAE back once SEA volume picks up again.

The PAE terminal owner is currently using the low flight rate to do some ramp work that is necessary long term. Continued investment on their part suggests positive discussions with the airlines.


Low flight rate? PAE's terminal is closed through at least July 30th.
 
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aeromoe
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Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:19 am

chrisp390 wrote:
Do the 737's still say "Proudly all Boeing" or has that been removed now that they have had Airbus and Embraer in the fleet for 2+ years?


The motto still exists on the Boeing fleet. I've flown AS quite a bit these past few years and make a photo webpage for all of them. On this page from Feb 2020 you can see the logo still on the noses of the two 737s at PHX. I also do a lot of photos from inside the terminal as I'm waiting for flights so I've got photo evidence it's on the 737s I've photographed.

http://www.aeromoe.com/flightlog/flt750.html
Since 60s: AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR(85) BY B6 CO CZ(16) DG DL EA EI EN FI FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KL KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(87) OZ(88) PA PI PN(97) PT QF QQ RM RO RV(99) RV(16) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(13) ZZ 9K
 
iamlucky13
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Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:29 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
RTNOBLE wrote:
With an overall downturn how do we see PAE faring with capacity cuts? Would be a shame to see service reductions to such a new operation.


It has been cut significantly more than other locations, but the airport was doing generally well before the pandemic hit. I'm confident they'll bring most or all of the flights at PAE back once SEA volume picks up again.

The PAE terminal owner is currently using the low flight rate to do some ramp work that is necessary long term. Continued investment on their part suggests positive discussions with the airlines.


Low flight rate? PAE's terminal is closed through at least July 30th.


Thanks for the update.

I knew the request had been made to the FAA to be allowed to cease the remaining scheduled flights to do the ramp work more quickly, but they rejected the proposal. An updated proposal had been submitted, and I thought accepted, but I wasn't entirely sure. I just looked up the most recent article again to confirm this.

The flight rate was significantly reduced at the time of closure, and they plan to resume once the ramp work is complete:
https://www.heraldnet.com/business/pain ... p-repairs/
 
n7371f
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Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:33 am

Oh they still got 'em.

chrisp390 wrote:
Do the 737's still say "Proudly all Boeing" or has that been removed now that they have had Airbus and Embraer in the fleet for 2+ years?
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:42 am

I wouldn't be surprised to see further AS retrenchment in the California market. I would have to think the SEA and PDX hubs will take precedence over their SFO and LAX counterparts. As far as focus cities go, operations in the Northwest like BOI, GEG and PAE also seem to be faring better than Californian stations like SAN, SJC and SMF. Perhaps as AS cuts back in the Golden State, WN will continue to reduce service at AS strongholds.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
32andBelow
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Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:37 am

[twoid][/twoid]
SurfandSnow wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised to see further AS retrenchment in the California market. I would have to think the SEA and PDX hubs will take precedence over their SFO and LAX counterparts. As far as focus cities go, operations in the Northwest like BOI, GEG and PAE also seem to be faring better than Californian stations like SAN, SJC and SMF. Perhaps as AS cuts back in the Golden State, WN will continue to reduce service at AS strongholds.

And you know like ALASKA!
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:46 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
Perhaps as AS cuts back in the Golden State, WN will continue to reduce service at AS strongholds.


Actually, AS has already begun expanding opportunities at SAN, SNA, and PDX as WN cuts service there to redeploy assets against the Big 3 in other markets.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
F9Animal
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Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:29 pm

The airline says it's shrinking, and some are questioning if Alaska should go and buy new planes from Airbus? Hilarious!!! I am pretty sure Alaska or any airline wishes to kick some tires, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Alaska is indeed going to shrink, which is the smart choice during these uncertain times. It saddens me to hear so many jobs will likely be affected. But!! I only see this as temporary. Perhaps they will seek early retirements before slicing away?

I'm certain in the next few years, things will get somewhat back to normal for the industry. Never in my life did I think we would see such a crushing set of circumstances this big, hit the airlines like this. Alaska will come out of this okay, that's a for sure.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:47 pm

32andBelow wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
SurfandSnow wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised to see further AS retrenchment in the California market. I would have to think the SEA and PDX hubs will take precedence over their SFO and LAX counterparts. As far as focus cities go, operations in the Northwest like BOI, GEG and PAE also seem to be faring better than Californian stations like SAN, SJC and SMF. Perhaps as AS cuts back in the Golden State, WN will continue to reduce service at AS strongholds.

And you know like ALASKA!


I'm not so sure about Alaska. Low oil prices and widespread concerns over cruise safety (let alone the apparent desire to vacation in places as familiar and close to home as possible - such as Florida) could put a damper on demand to/from Alaska. I would think p2p services to Hawaii could be in trouble too, but any cuts or reductions there could be further evidence of trouble throughout California. Now that SMF-Hawaii is gone, OAK-Hawaii could be next.

airplaneboy wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
Perhaps as AS cuts back in the Golden State, WN will continue to reduce service at AS strongholds.


Actually, AS has already begun expanding opportunities at SAN, SNA, and PDX as WN cuts service there to redeploy assets against the Big 3 in other markets.


Which opportunities at SAN and SNA?


Exactly. With the notable exceptions of PAE and STS, two wealthy niche markets where AS is very strong, p2p wasn't really working from SNA before the pandemic. Failed AS services from SNA like ABQ, PVR, RNO and SJD spring to mind. Apparently SNA-Hawaii hasn't been possible due to a lack of ETOPS-certified 73Gs (the type that Aloha Airlines and later CO/UA used) in the AS fleet and prohibitive restrictions that the 738s would face. I always wondered about the possibility of seeing AS try something like SNA-BOS/JFK with the 73G or A319, but I'm guessing such an experiment wouldn't be viable. Otherwise, we might have seen AS try it.

Now, Hawaii has worked from SAN - but will that still be the case now that WN offers its loyal FFer base (as well as connecting passengers) nonstop service to Hawaii? Expansion into the heartland certainly didn't go too well (I recall DAL, ELP, MCI, MSP, SLC and STL getting cut but believe there were others), and unfortunately it looks like other AS services competing against WN such as BWI and SMF could now be in trouble too. AS may very well have found a few niche services from SAN that will be fine, like BOS, EWR and MRY, but overall it seems like SAN could be destined to become more of a spoke operation than any strategic focus for AS - as seems to be true in places like SJC and SMF where WN is also a major concern. WN, in turn, seems to be reacting by making life a little bit easier for AS in its key strongholds like PDX, SEA and even SFO. Seems this truce between AS and WN, if only temporary, is serving both airlines well.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:22 pm

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/ar ... 63006.html

New FAT-LAX flight, looks like 2x daily
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Prost
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Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:29 pm

Any consolidation would have to be stock only kind of mergers. No one is going to blow through billions of dollars in this environment.
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:04 pm

One must assume they know what they are doing but AS is starting new service from STS in the middle of this, a single daily R/T to SBA, this before adding back the second daily to SAN or the reduced services to LAX, PDX and SEA. Weird.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:27 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article243463006.html

New FAT-LAX flight, looks like 2x daily

That new route showed up in the OAG thread 2 weeks ago:
SANFan wrote:
Interesting moves from AAG reported this morning in Enilria's OAG thread.

In amongst all the cuts and drops this summer due to Covid -- and some are quite notable -- 3 new routes are reported to be starting in September: PDX-DEN, LAX-FAT & SJC-GEG! (I know PDX-DEN has been offered in the past, and I'm not sure about the other 2.)

There's plenty to be discussed here just based on what's listed in the OAG thread this week but I thought these 3 new routes might be a good start.

FATFlyer wrote:
The FAT-LAX flight shows as connecting to AS flights to PVR, SJD, MZT, HNL, OGG, etc.

It will likely provide some OW connections also but it is feeding the AS network.

AA already has Skywest planned to resume 3X FAT-LAX, including a morning departure only 20 minutes before the first AS planned departure.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
HNLSLCPDX
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:12 am

Since UA/OO pulled out of SGU-LAX, would love to see AA or especially AS come in and try it. SGU airport director specifically mentioned SEA as a market he’d like to see added. Would be nice to see a LAX-SGU-SEA type flight added.
 
flyoregon
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:28 am

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Since UA/OO pulled out of SGU-LAX, would love to see AA or especially AS come in and try it. SGU airport director specifically mentioned SEA as a market he’d like to see added. Would be nice to see a LAX-SGU-SEA type flight added.


I would guess DL would start that before AS would
 
alasizon
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Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:45 am

SonomaFlyer wrote:
One must assume they know what they are doing but AS is starting new service from STS in the middle of this, a single daily R/T to SBA, this before adding back the second daily to SAN or the reduced services to LAX, PDX and SEA. Weird.


It is a through flight on to PDX so it isn't really a new route so much as it is a tag. The non-stop SBA-PDX is also still for sale and is practically at the same time so I would imagine there is still another schedule overlay that needs to happen.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
LAXBUR
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:29 am

BOI-GEG will (eventually and allegedly) go 4x daily with WN’s exit.

BOI-SFO is a new route with 2x daily.

Assuming these things stick in this environment.
 
tiptoe42
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Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:35 am

EA CO AS wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
Perhaps as AS cuts back in the Golden State, WN will continue to reduce service at AS strongholds.


Actually, AS has already begun expanding opportunities at SAN, SNA, and PDX as WN cuts service there to redeploy assets against the Big 3 in other markets.


Just to be accurate that would be Horizon and Skywest doing that. While Alaska plans to eliminate 3000 jobs.
 
roadrunner165
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:32 am

Wishing Alaska adds a few more flights between SEA-MSP before summer ends. It takes me 30 hours to get from Nome, Alaska to Minneapolis. And I'll be doing the trip weekly for the next three weeks.
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:21 pm

Folks, this thread is about Alaska airlines and their plans to shrink in size due to COVID. This is not the place to discuss 737 MAX issues, argue Airbus vs. Boeing, etc.
I was raised by a cup of coffee.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:39 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
Exactly. With the notable exceptions of PAE and STS, two wealthy niche markets where AS is very strong, p2p wasn't really working from SNA before the pandemic. Failed AS services from SNA like ABQ, PVR, RNO and SJD spring to mind.

Now, Hawaii has worked from SAN - but will that still be the case now that WN offers its loyal FFer base (as well as connecting passengers) nonstop service to Hawaii? Expansion into the heartland certainly didn't go too well (I recall DAL, ELP, MCI, MSP, SLC and STL getting cut but believe there were others), and unfortunately it looks like other AS services competing against WN such as BWI and SMF could now be in trouble too. AS may very well have found a few niche services from SAN that will be fine, like BOS, EWR and MRY, but overall it seems like SAN could be destined to become more of a spoke operation than any strategic focus for AS - as seems to be true in places like SJC and SMF where WN is also a major concern. WN, in turn, seems to be reacting by making life a little bit easier for AS in its key strongholds like PDX, SEA and even SFO. Seems this truce between AS and WN, if only temporary, is serving both airlines well.

You are aware of the cuts WN is making in SAN late this year? Ten nonstop routes are being dropped (as compared to last Nov's schedule), reducing the routes from SAN by 1/3, and ~20% of the departures overall are being eliminated with this winter's skeds! It appears that percentage-wise, WN is cutting SAN more than anyone else, especially AS. (I'm not going into details and lists of the SAN cuts here as this has all been discussed elsewhere a lot.)

That sounds to me exactly like some golden opportunities for AAG at SAN. In fact, the winter sked changes released by AS just last Sunday show increases in freq to BOI, GEG, MCO (going double-daily!), PDX, PVR (to daily service!), & SEA. These markets are being increased by AS as fast as they are being dropped by WN! As usual, EA CO AS knows what he's talking about and AS is jumping on opportunities as they become available. I have a feeling SAN's status as at least a Focus city for AAG is not in jeopardy once the dust settles.

I might also note that WN still has no service between SAN and Hawaii on their schedules into next January -- the duration of their open booking window -- while AS seems to be chomping at the bit to get those 4 routes to the Islands from SAN going as soon as the State of HI opens back up for tourism. We'll have to wait and see how WN deals with their very long awaited inaugural of service to any markets in HI from SAN....

bb
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:01 pm

Here's a small quick of some changes now scheduled for late this year by AS at their SAN Focus city (starting in Sept and Nov); in fact these changes were just released last Sunday so they are hot off the grill. (That doesn't mean they might not change as conditions worsen or improve but as of now, these are now on the schedules.)

SAN-BOI increasing to daily-double service;
SAN-GEG going to 2x daily as well;
SAN-MCO going Double-Daily starting in November;
SAN-PDX service going to 6x daily;
SAN-PVR service will be Daily;
SAN-SEA is seeing additional frequencies.

Coincidentally (!) most of these markets are being dropped entirely as of Nov 1 by WN. Any question as to whether AAG is jumping into opportunities as they become available? I have a list of other possible routes I feel AS should jump into but I certainly don't want to be accused of pushing them!

Unfortunately, the bad news revealed Sunday is that AS seems to be dropping SAN-SMF which I still find very disturbing so I won't talk about it anymore... SAN-SBP may be a casualty of Covid but I think it's too early to tell.

bb
 
ZOASAN
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:29 pm

SANFan wrote:
SAN-SBP may be a casualty of Covid but I think it's too early to tell.

bb


Fortunately, while maybe dropped in the interim, I noticed that through the fall, SBP is still bookable whereas SMF is not - there's still room for optimism!
 
durangomac
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:29 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Since UA/OO pulled out of SGU-LAX, would love to see AA or especially AS come in and try it. SGU airport director specifically mentioned SEA as a market he’d like to see added. Would be nice to see a LAX-SGU-SEA type flight added.


SGU is a very hard market to make work. OO lost lots of money over the years providing service there and most flight until recently never made a profit, usually break even was the goal and many occasions OO execs stated they were willing to lose money. The area is lucky to get the traffic it does because of OO having it's headquarters there. If OO didn't have it's headquarters there I would suspect at most 1-2 round trips a day to one hub, either SLC or DEN. The biggest issues is LAS being 2 hours down the road and insanely cheap with a lot of direct flights, pre-COVID of course.

The only way AS is going to start flying to SGU is if they provide massive subsidy and more than a year.

Remember OO flew to SGU as AA, DL and UA pro-rate for many years. I think I heard one route may have got under a CPA but I can't confirm that happened.
 
CRJ5000
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:45 pm

durangomac wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Since UA/OO pulled out of SGU-LAX, would love to see AA or especially AS come in and try it. SGU airport director specifically mentioned SEA as a market he’d like to see added. Would be nice to see a LAX-SGU-SEA type flight added.


SGU is a very hard market to make work. OO lost lots of money over the years providing service there and most flight until recently never made a profit, usually break even was the goal and many occasions OO execs stated they were willing to lose money. The area is lucky to get the traffic it does because of OO having it's headquarters there. If OO didn't have it's headquarters there I would suspect at most 1-2 round trips a day to one hub, either SLC or DEN. The biggest issues is LAS being 2 hours down the road and insanely cheap with a lot of direct flights, pre-COVID of course.

The only way AS is going to start flying to SGU is if they provide massive subsidy and more than a year.

Remember OO flew to SGU as AA, DL and UA pro-rate for many years. I think I heard one route may have got under a CPA but I can't confirm that happened.


Agreed. Any service there is likely to be tied to a large subsidy and that probably won't be there in the near future. I've flown on dozens of flights out of SGU, and it was very common to have 20-25 paid pax and 20+ nonrevenue pax on a CRJ200. They do sometimes fill them up with paid pax, but of all the airports I've commonly flown out of, SGU definitely has the largest percent of nonrev pax I've ever experienced.
 
HNLSLCPDX
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:10 pm

CRJ5000 wrote:
durangomac wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Since UA/OO pulled out of SGU-LAX, would love to see AA or especially AS come in and try it. SGU airport director specifically mentioned SEA as a market he’d like to see added. Would be nice to see a LAX-SGU-SEA type flight added.


SGU is a very hard market to make work. OO lost lots of money over the years providing service there and most flight until recently never made a profit, usually break even was the goal and many occasions OO execs stated they were willing to lose money. The area is lucky to get the traffic it does because of OO having it's headquarters there. If OO didn't have it's headquarters there I would suspect at most 1-2 round trips a day to one hub, either SLC or DEN. The biggest issues is LAS being 2 hours down the road and insanely cheap with a lot of direct flights, pre-COVID of course.

The only way AS is going to start flying to SGU is if they provide massive subsidy and more than a year.

Remember OO flew to SGU as AA, DL and UA pro-rate for many years. I think I heard one route may have got under a CPA but I can't confirm that happened.


Agreed. Any service there is likely to be tied to a large subsidy and that probably won't be there in the near future. I've flown on dozens of flights out of SGU, and it was very common to have 20-25 paid pax and 20+ nonrevenue pax on a CRJ200. They do sometimes fill them up with paid pax, but of all the airports I've commonly flown out of, SGU definitely has the largest percent of nonrev pax I've ever experienced.


I don’t think it’s as bad as you say. Pre Covid, SGU had 4x daily to SLC, 3x to PHX, 2x to DEN and 1x to each DFW and LAX. If loads were that bad I doubt DL, AA, UA would have that many flights.

I think AS could definitely make SEA work from SGU.
 
CRJ5000
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:06 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:30 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:

I don’t think it’s as bad as you say. Pre Covid, SGU had 4x daily to SLC, 3x to PHX, 2x to DEN and 1x to each DFW and LAX. If loads were that bad I doubt DL, AA, UA would have that many flights.

I think AS could definitely make SEA work from SGU.


I used to have to fly standby out of there weekly. It can get that bad or worse. Not always, but frequently. The at risk flying is only in the capacity it is to keep the Skywest employees moving. It is certainly at a loss.
COVID means crews aren't really moving around much, so the standbys are lower than I've seen but just checking the 2 SGU-SLC flights yesterday - Both upgraded to CRJ-900. 1 was 32 pax, and 15 were standbys. The other was 29 pax, 10 standbys. The crews flying deadhead/positive space are included in the regular pax numbers so assuming some of them were on board, it's worse than those numbers indicate. I've never experienced an airport quite like it.
 
joeblow10
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:37 pm

CRJ5000 wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:

I don’t think it’s as bad as you say. Pre Covid, SGU had 4x daily to SLC, 3x to PHX, 2x to DEN and 1x to each DFW and LAX. If loads were that bad I doubt DL, AA, UA would have that many flights.

I think AS could definitely make SEA work from SGU.


I used to have to fly standby out of there weekly. It can get that bad or worse. Not always, but frequently. The at risk flying is only in the capacity it is to keep the Skywest employees moving. It is certainly at a loss.
COVID means crews aren't really moving around much, so the standbys are lower than I've seen but just checking the 2 SGU-SLC flights yesterday - Both upgraded to CRJ-900. 1 was 32 pax, and 15 were standbys. The other was 29 pax, 10 standbys. The crews flying deadhead/positive space are included in the regular pax numbers so assuming some of them were on board, it's worse than those numbers indicate. I've never experienced an airport quite like it.


I’ll never forget the time I was near the bottom of a 30+ person standby list for a CR2 on a Friday afternoon out of SGU. Needless to say, we were forced to sit around until Saturday morning. I’ve rarely seen lists that long at a major airport, let alone a small regional one. Guess all the OO folks headed out for the weekend.
 
CRJ5000
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:06 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:55 pm

joeblow10 wrote:

I’ll never forget the time I was near the bottom of a 30+ person standby list for a CR2 on a Friday afternoon out of SGU. Needless to say, we were forced to sit around until Saturday morning. I’ve rarely seen lists that long at a major airport, let alone a small regional one. Guess all the OO folks headed out for the weekend.


Bringing back bad memories...
I think OO standbys are the sole reason the St George Shuttle is in business. A whole lot of them just drive to LAS to avoid the long standby lists or take the shuttle.
With that being said, I just can't see SGU as a market that AS would want unless it is heavily subsidized. I don't recall OO doing at risk flying for AS (I don't know if they do or not), and it would almost certainly have to be an at risk market.
 
freakyrat
Posts: 2043
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:34 pm

AS is sitting on gates at DAL.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26252
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:53 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
CRJ5000 wrote:
durangomac wrote:

SGU is a very hard market to make work. OO lost lots of money over the years providing service there and most flight until recently never made a profit, usually break even was the goal and many occasions OO execs stated they were willing to lose money. The area is lucky to get the traffic it does because of OO having it's headquarters there. If OO didn't have it's headquarters there I would suspect at most 1-2 round trips a day to one hub, either SLC or DEN. The biggest issues is LAS being 2 hours down the road and insanely cheap with a lot of direct flights, pre-COVID of course.

The only way AS is going to start flying to SGU is if they provide massive subsidy and more than a year.

Remember OO flew to SGU as AA, DL and UA pro-rate for many years. I think I heard one route may have got under a CPA but I can't confirm that happened.


Agreed. Any service there is likely to be tied to a large subsidy and that probably won't be there in the near future. I've flown on dozens of flights out of SGU, and it was very common to have 20-25 paid pax and 20+ nonrevenue pax on a CRJ200. They do sometimes fill them up with paid pax, but of all the airports I've commonly flown out of, SGU definitely has the largest percent of nonrev pax I've ever experienced.


I don’t think it’s as bad as you say. Pre Covid, SGU had 4x daily to SLC, 3x to PHX, 2x to DEN and 1x to each DFW and LAX. If loads were that bad I doubt DL, AA, UA would have that many flights.

I think AS could definitely make SEA work from SGU.


Skywest is headquartered at SGU. All that service simply rotates planes and employees around. It makes sense given that, but ti's not because the market demand its.
a.
 
gaystudpilot
Posts: 266
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:55 pm

Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:08 am

Oct, Nov and Dec will be a very interesting period for Alaska and it’s competitors.
 
durangomac
Posts: 448
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:18 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:09 am

CRJ5000 wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:

I’ll never forget the time I was near the bottom of a 30+ person standby list for a CR2 on a Friday afternoon out of SGU. Needless to say, we were forced to sit around until Saturday morning. I’ve rarely seen lists that long at a major airport, let alone a small regional one. Guess all the OO folks headed out for the weekend.


Bringing back bad memories...
I think OO standbys are the sole reason the St George Shuttle is in business. A whole lot of them just drive to LAS to avoid the long standby lists or take the shuttle.
With that being said, I just can't see SGU as a market that AS would want unless it is heavily subsidized. I don't recall OO doing at risk flying for AS (I don't know if they do or not), and it would almost certainly have to be an at risk market.


I was probably one of those 30+ people on the standby list with you. I'm not even sure I could tell you how many times I ran to CDC or LAS with friends to fly out or to go pick up friends that couldn't make it into SGU. I did learn to enjoy the roller coaster ride into the old airport on the EMB-120.

The last time I checked with AS network planning, SGU wasn't even on the top 50 list of airports they were looking at, they just couldn't make the numbers work even with a modest subsidy.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1984
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:14 am

SANFan wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
Exactly. With the notable exceptions of PAE and STS, two wealthy niche markets where AS is very strong, p2p wasn't really working from SNA before the pandemic. Failed AS services from SNA like ABQ, PVR, RNO and SJD spring to mind.

Now, Hawaii has worked from SAN - but will that still be the case now that WN offers its loyal FFer base (as well as connecting passengers) nonstop service to Hawaii? Expansion into the heartland certainly didn't go too well (I recall DAL, ELP, MCI, MSP, SLC and STL getting cut but believe there were others), and unfortunately it looks like other AS services competing against WN such as BWI and SMF could now be in trouble too. AS may very well have found a few niche services from SAN that will be fine, like BOS, EWR and MRY, but overall it seems like SAN could be destined to become more of a spoke operation than any strategic focus for AS - as seems to be true in places like SJC and SMF where WN is also a major concern. WN, in turn, seems to be reacting by making life a little bit easier for AS in its key strongholds like PDX, SEA and even SFO. Seems this truce between AS and WN, if only temporary, is serving both airlines well.

You are aware of the cuts WN is making in SAN late this year? Ten nonstop routes are being dropped (as compared to last Nov's schedule), reducing the routes from SAN by 1/3, and ~20% of the departures overall are being eliminated with this winter's skeds! It appears that percentage-wise, WN is cutting SAN more than anyone else, especially AS. (I'm not going into details and lists of the SAN cuts here as this has all been discussed elsewhere a lot.)

That sounds to me exactly like some golden opportunities for AAG at SAN. In fact, the winter sked changes released by AS just last Sunday show increases in freq to BOI, GEG, MCO (going double-daily!), PDX, PVR (to daily service!), & SEA. These markets are being increased by AS as fast as they are being dropped by WN! As usual, EA CO AS knows what he's talking about and AS is jumping on opportunities as they become available. I have a feeling SAN's status as at least a Focus city for AAG is not in jeopardy once the dust settles.

I might also note that WN still has no service between SAN and Hawaii on their schedules into next January -- the duration of their open booking window -- while AS seems to be chomping at the bit to get those 4 routes to the Islands from SAN going as soon as the State of HI opens back up for tourism. We'll have to wait and see how WN deals with their very long awaited inaugural of service to any markets in HI from SAN....

bb

WN SAN-Hawaii is only on hold until Hawaii has a removal of the 14 day quarantine requirements.
Once it's lifted It will be added.
Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5412
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Seattle Times: Alaska Air prepares to shrink and shed thousands of jobs

Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:41 am

wnflyguy wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I might also note that WN still has no service between SAN and Hawaii on their schedules into next January -- the duration of their open booking window -- while AS seems to be chomping at the bit to get those 4 routes to the Islands from SAN going as soon as the State of HI opens back up for tourism. We'll have to wait and see how WN deals with their very long awaited inaugural of service to any markets in HI from SAN....
bb

WN SAN-Hawaii is only on hold until Hawaii has a removal of the 14 day quarantine requirements.
Once it's lifted It will be added.
Flyguy

I've heard other opinions on that, primarily dependent on whether the MAXs are flying or not. At his point, I'll be thrilled and surprised if WN is flying west from SAN in 2021...

And as I said up-thread, judging by the published (advance) schedules for AS, they are ready and will be in the air to all 4 islands from SAN as soon as the state is open again for business! In fact, AS is showing the nonstops to all 4 islands from SAN scheduled at this point to begin, daily, on July 12.

I've seen no commitment at all to any SAN-HI routes from WN.

bb
 
User avatar
SteveXC500
Posts: 591
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:38 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:21 pm

roadrunner165 wrote:
Wishing Alaska adds a few more flights between SEA-MSP before summer ends. It takes me 30 hours to get from Nome, Alaska to Minneapolis. And I'll be doing the trip weekly for the next three weeks.


I believe they recently added AS986, which began flying on 6/14. It's an A321 evening SEA departure, arrives midnight-ish.
 
JammyBritton27
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:28 pm

Alaska Air Group: How the COVID-19 pandemic downed a high-flyer

Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:30 pm

Looking at the five-year trend, Alaska has consistently increased its operating revenues with a 6% year-over-year increase in 2019 to $8.7 billion. This increase in revenue was fueled by continued network expansion and capacity growth.

During its first quarter earnings announcement, the company stated that flown capacity for April was down over 80% versus the previous year and cuts for May will also exceed 80%.

Alaska and its peers will continue to face challenges over the coming months and it is safe to say that the airline industry in general is likely to witness some significant changes in travel trends in the future.

https://news.alphastreet.com/alaska-air ... igh-flyer/
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5412
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:57 pm

I'm kind of anxious to see what might be unveiled by AAG in this weekend's OAG load, and will therefore show up in tomorrow morning's OAG thread by Enilria. Any sort of reaction to B6's announcements and actions over the last couple of days?

There's of course been speculation by many elsewhere that B6 is specifically targeting AS with the announcement of Blue's 3 new routes from EWR to SFO/LAX/SAN. Also the addition of FLL-SEA/PDX in the fall by Blue has generated a few comments aimed in AS's direction. There's AS's recent moves (and lack thereof, IMO) at JFK. All of these moves seem to hint at at least the possibility of some level of interaction between Blue and Chester!

In the last couple of weeks, we've already seen moves by AAG in response to moves/cuts by other cx so I wouldn't be surprised to see more of the same, possibly as early as this weekend? Any of these sorts of moves are obviously risky and could very well be undone as quickly as they were done given the times we're in this year. I figured it would be awhile, probably next year, before this aviation business we all love got exciting again... who'da thunk there would be so much to watch this soon?

Onward and upward AS! (See some of you tomorrow morning over coffee.)

bb
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