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dtw2hyd
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:41 pm

Unlimited financial sources cannot hide management's lack of vision and incompetence forever, they will come out in full force when funds dry out.

250 wide bodies are too many, 65,000 airline and105,000 Group employees are too many, but management keeps singing "Everything is Awesome"
All posts are just opinions.
 
danipawa
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:01 am

PepeTheFrog wrote:


its happening
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:39 am

danipawa wrote:
PepeTheFrog wrote:


its happening


According to this, the registration is A6-EDB.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AeronewsGlob ... 9752532994
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9 • Farewell BA/KL 744s
 
Ishrion
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:48 am

VCVSpotter wrote:
danipawa wrote:
PepeTheFrog wrote:


its happening


According to this, the registration is A6-EDB.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AeronewsGlob ... 9752532994


Didn’t Emirates already retire two A380s last year? Or is this the first to have its livery removed?
 
smartplane
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:07 am

Most EK A380 leases are 12 years with lessee option of fixed term rollovers, or in less good times (but much better than today) switch to 'on demand' FBTH until the lessor can find a new home. Interesting to see if it remains stored in the region, with EK mitigating end of lease (EOL) costs by providing storage and maintenance, or whether it flies to an Airbus parking lot.

Pre-COVID, lessors were hopeful of extensions due to X delivery delays, but now................

EEK and EEH are much younger. If these are stored, probably because major maintenance / inspection is due. If they get a coat of paint..................
 
dfwking
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:57 am

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
TUGMASTER wrote:
FrenchPotatoEye wrote:

The Gulf news says that Emirates says this is all fake news.



I wouldn’t put to much reassurance on the Gulf News.
It’s a very cut and paste paper.


But they the quote from Emirates? That's not cut paste.



I wouldn't trust Emirates to tell the truth on this one. Think about it, which airline wants to be associated with pilot and cabin crew suicides? It would be PR disaster. If heard the news and took it for what it is, I would think twice before flying an airline that is having suicide issues.
 
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CarbonFibre
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:31 am

A6-EDB was the first EK A380 to visit the UK. Doesn't seem that long ago!

https://flic.kr/p/2jboZJ1
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:20 am

CarbonFibre wrote:
A6-EDB was the first EK A380 to visit the UK. Doesn't seem that long ago!

https://flic.kr/p/2jboZJ1


I flew PER - DXB - LHR in early Decenber 2008, the DXB - LHR leg upstairs on one of EK's first two, maybe three, A380s. May well have been this one, unfortunately I do not remember the reg. EK kept putting back their first commercial flight so it was uncertain whether I would fly in a 380 until almost the last minute. I had seen it fly at Farnborough a few months earlier - very impressive low speed turns!
 
Aither
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:07 am

I think most A380s should stay. Even if the international market demand is let say 70% of pre covid (when is the question..) this would probably mean EK demand will be at pre covid. Like previous crises there will be consolidations of airlines and networks which will benefit to the most efficient hubs. Traffic will peak up before traffic rights and routes as some destinations will recover much faster than other ones. EK has the opportunity to balance their capacity between regions of the world like no other carrier can.
We can't argue in one hand fragmentation is bad for the A380 market and on the other hand say consolidation is bad for the A380 market...
Last edited by Aither on Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Never trust the obvious
 
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Revelation
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:04 pm

smartplane wrote:
Most EK A380 leases are 12 years with lessee option of fixed term rollovers, or in less good times (but much better than today) switch to 'on demand' FBTH until the lessor can find a new home. Interesting to see if it remains stored in the region, with EK mitigating end of lease (EOL) costs by providing storage and maintenance, or whether it flies to an Airbus parking lot.

Pre-COVID, lessors were hopeful of extensions due to X delivery delays, but now................

EEK and EEH are much younger. If these are stored, probably because major maintenance / inspection is due. If they get a coat of paint..................

So Airbus is the lease holder?

Aither wrote:
I think most A380s should stay. Even if the international market demand is let say 70% of pre covid (when is the question..) this would probably mean EK demand will be at pre covid. Like previous crises there will be consolidations of airlines and networks which will benefit to the most efficient hubs. Traffic will peak up before traffic rights and routes as some destinations will recover much faster than other ones. EK has the opportunity to balance their capacity between regions of the world like no other carrier can.
We can't argue in one hand fragmentation is bad for the A380 market and on the other hand say consolidation is bad for the A380 market...

It's pretty clear consolidation is not going to rid the market of excess capacity. All the major competitors are being treated as "too big to fail" by their governments. Given this, we'll see the smaller and more efficient airplanes fly first till demand and yield are enough to support the bigger planes. At EK, the A380's biggest enemy is the 777 because 777 is more efficient with lower trip costs and it's still flying while the A380 fleet is parked.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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Boeing757100
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:18 pm

Mr. Tim Clark denies these rumors, but I would not be surprised if it happened. Plus, EK retired its first a380 today (A6-EDB).
 
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Revelation
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Emirates Retires First A380

Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:53 pm

Interesting article at https://onemileatatime.com/emirates-ret ... rbus-a380/

A6-EDB has been spotted in Dubai with an all white paint scheme, and is in the process of leaving Emirates’ fleet.

This particular A380 was the second A380 that Emirates ever took delivery of, and it joined the company’s fleet in October 2008, meaning that it’s nearly 12 years old. This was the 13th A380 ever built (with previous ones being Airbus test frames, and the remainder being built for both Singapore Airlines and Emirates Airline).


Image

And the future of the rest of the fleet is.... debatable. Those of us who have been around for a while always knew 2020 would be the year the first A380 would be leaving the EK fleet. EK is in an interesting place where CV19 has stunted growth but they aren't in a position to offload aircraft any earlier than planned because there are no real resale opportunities. At best they can park the planes closest to heavy maintenance visits to try to avoid those costly visits.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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zkojq
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Re: Emirates Retires First A380

Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:37 pm

Had a lovely flight on A6-EDB MEL-AKL a few years back. Lovely plane other than the waterfall of water coming from the galley which started on rotation and lasted most of the climb. Ridiculously comfortable and quiet onboard too.

Image

Does anyone know where it's headed to for storage/scrap?

12 years old is the normal age that EK have retired their aircraft in the past, so I don't think you can read too much into it's departure, however the future isn't looking bright at all for the old EK A380s.
First to fly the 787-9
 
Confuscius
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:48 pm

I hope those laid off pilots and flight attendants don't owe too much debt to UAE banks.


Working for Emirates Airlines could mean arrest, imprisonment and Interpol warrants
Emirates Airlines cuts leave staff vulnerable to arrest

https://www.eturbonews.com/573935/working-for-emirates-airlines-could-mean-arrest-imprisonment-and-interpol-warrants/
Ain't I a stinker?
 
smartplane
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:14 pm

Revelation wrote:
smartplane wrote:
Most EK A380 leases are 12 years with lessee option of fixed term rollovers, or in less good times (but much better than today) switch to 'on demand' FBTH until the lessor can find a new home. Interesting to see if it remains stored in the region, with EK mitigating end of lease (EOL) costs by providing storage and maintenance, or whether it flies to an Airbus parking lot.

Pre-COVID, lessors were hopeful of extensions due to X delivery delays, but now................

EEK and EEH are much younger. If these are stored, probably because major maintenance / inspection is due. If they get a coat of paint..................

So Airbus is the lease holder?

A buyback does not make the OEM a lease holder. They would be a beneficial owner if invoked, and have a contingent liability until invoked, expires or retired.
 
TC957
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Re: Emirates Retires First A380

Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:49 pm

What happened to the EK 380 that got damaged during maintenance when it fell of it's jacks ? did they retire that frame ?
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Emirates Retires First A380

Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:54 pm

I don't think retirement of the early builds says much about the future of the rest of the fleet, which depends almost entirely on whether the world resumes pre-COVID travel patterns within the next couple of years. It's been known since they entered service that the early builds are more expensive and time-consuming to maintain, and they will leave on time no matter what else happens.
 
Jetport
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Re: Emirates Retires First A380

Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:09 pm

Why did they repaint it white, seems like a waste of money? Even if this one is leased and the owner wants it white, you would think Emirates would split the savings of not having to repaint it with the owner and they would gladly accept since there is a 99.99% chance this aircraft gets scrapped.
 
MEA-707
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Re: Emirates Retires First A380

Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:14 pm

    Jetport wrote:
    Why did they repaint it white, seems like a waste of money? Even if this one is leased and the owner wants it white, you would think Emirates would split the savings of not having to repaint it with the owner and they would gladly accept since there is a 99.99% chance this aircraft gets scrapped.

    Many airlines' PR departments are really sensitive about this and take care their logos or colours are removed from non airworthy aircraft. Pictures of a halfly scrapped A380 in Emirates colours would give the impression the airlines fleet is rickety and obsolete, it will be used for memes, etc.
    nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
     
    emiratesdriver
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    Re: Emirates Retires First A380

    Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:43 pm

    You can think all you want, this is the first of many being taken out of service to preserve cash and Wasta.

    seabosdca wrote:
    I don't think retirement of the early builds says much about the future of the rest of the fleet, which depends almost entirely on whether the world resumes pre-COVID travel patterns within the next couple of years. It's been known since they entered service that the early builds are more expensive and time-consuming to maintain, and they will leave on time no matter what else happens.
     
    danipawa
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    Re: Emirates Retires First A380

    Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:51 pm

    How many to follow ?
     
    airhansa
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    Re: Emirates Retires First A380

    Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:54 pm

    I still wonder why no airline has managed to make the A380 work as a low-cost cattle class plane? An all-economy seating A380 can host 853 passengers.

    Around $30 per km in fuel.

    ATH to SIN is about 5621km, making fuel costs around $168630. Divided by 853 it would mean $197 as a minimum ticket price. I didn't include staffing costs as a low cost country can provide cheaper staffing, but overall a ticket price lower than $300 doesn't seem that illogical.

    For lower distance routes that are busy it's possible to have prices as lower than $50 in terms of fuel.

    Though Emirates may not get away with it, surely India or a Eastern European country like Greece could?
     
    MIflyer12
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    Re: Emirates Retires First A380

    Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:58 pm

    seabosdca wrote:
    I don't think retirement of the early builds says much about the future of the rest of the fleet, which depends almost entirely on whether the world resumes pre-COVID travel patterns within the next couple of years.


    How many, beyond the early builds, need to be retired before you accept that economics do not favor A380 operation? Five? Ten? For contrast, how many twelve year old 77Ws have been retired?
     
    Confuscius
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    Re: Emirates Retires First A380

    Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:15 pm

    Jetport wrote:
    Why did they repaint it white, seems like a waste of money?


    Too bad Air France retired all their A380s. All this plane needs is a little blue and red paint...and dirt. It's good to go.
    Ain't I a stinker?
     
    stefanJ
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    Re: Emirates Retires First A380

    Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:22 pm

    TC957 wrote:
    What happened to the EK 380 that got damaged during maintenance when it fell of it's jacks ? did they retire that frame ?



    They repaired that A380 (A6-EOP) and it was back in the air again earlier this year. See https://www.aerotelegraph.com/en/airbus ... lies-again
     
    SteelChair
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    Re: Emirates Retires First A380

    Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:30 pm

    The failure of the A380 has manifested itself so thoroughly that it is going out of production. Yet, people are still postulating wild theories on this thread.

    The A380 is too big, too heavy, to inefficient, and too expensive. The day of the quad jet is over
     
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    Revelation
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    Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

    Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:41 pm

    smartplane wrote:
    A buyback does not make the OEM a lease holder. They would be a beneficial owner if invoked, and have a contingent liability until invoked, expires or retired.

    Ahh, the old buyback clause. The ghost of John Leary may end up haunting the house of Airbus.
    Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
    The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
    Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
    The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
     
    alfa164
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    Re: Emirates Retires First A380

    Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:04 pm

    airhansa wrote:
    I still wonder why no airline has managed to make the A380 work as a low-cost cattle class plane? An all-economy seating A380 can host 853 passengers.
    Around $30 per km in fuel.
    ATH to SIN is about 5621km, making fuel costs around $168630. Divided by 853 it would mean $197 as a minimum ticket price. I didn't include staffing costs as a low cost country can provide cheaper staffing, but overall a ticket price lower than $300 doesn't seem that illogical.
    For lower distance routes that are busy it's possible to have prices as lower than $50 in terms of fuel.
    Though Emirates may not get away with it, surely India or a Eastern European country like Greece could?


    1) You try to find 853 people who will reliably and regularly fill up the plane;

    2) You handle to emergency evacuation test and see how long it takes to get 853 people off the plane.

    That... plus a lot more... and you will have your answer...
    I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
    I have decided to be cremated....
     
    426Shadow
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    Re: Emirates Retires First A380

    Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:11 pm

    SteelChair wrote:
    The failure of the A380 has manifested itself so thoroughly that it is going out of production. Yet, people are still postulating wild theories on this thread.

    The A380 is too big, too heavy, to inefficient, and too expensive. The day of the quad jet is over


    You bout to make some people in here cry lol.

    To me the A380 was always a vanity peen swinging project. The Concorde was also but to a lesser degree. The difference is back then everyone was working on a supersonic jet, but only one ever had a serious run in the end. The A380 was not the same as they weren't inventing a new wheel so much as making it slightly bigger. That's the main reason it never stood a chance.
    We are all just fanboys, our opinions don't make or break businesses.
     
    Jomar777
    Posts: 552
    Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

    Re: Emirates Retires First A380

    Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:15 pm

    alfa164 wrote:
    airhansa wrote:
    I still wonder why no airline has managed to make the A380 work as a low-cost cattle class plane? An all-economy seating A380 can host 853 passengers.
    Around $30 per km in fuel.
    ATH to SIN is about 5621km, making fuel costs around $168630. Divided by 853 it would mean $197 as a minimum ticket price. I didn't include staffing costs as a low cost country can provide cheaper staffing, but overall a ticket price lower than $300 doesn't seem that illogical.
    For lower distance routes that are busy it's possible to have prices as lower than $50 in terms of fuel.
    Though Emirates may not get away with it, surely India or a Eastern European country like Greece could?


    1) You try to find 853 people who will reliably and regularly fill up the plane;

    2) You handle to emergency evacuation test and see how long it takes to get 853 people off the plane.

    That... plus a lot more... and you will have your answer...


    I think you are right but I guess the main reasons would be:

    a. The amount of crew on board plus on the ground to fly this bird would make ticket prices unprofitable. Even more if you consider the turnaround time which is so key for a LCC;
    b. Most of LCCs at least in Europe, with some exceptions, fly to secondary Airports which might not necessarily be able to handle an A380 on a LCC configuration (let alone some like those used by Ryanair which would not be able to handle an A380 full stop).

    I also remember that, when the A380 was initially advertised, there were indeed plans for it to operate on high densities (e.g. Japanese routes - never materialized as we know...) so I am pretty sure that it can handle 800 plus passengers on an emergency situation since it would have been project for it.

    What sometimes wonders me is why didn't any US airlines (Delta for that matter) not consider it since it could fly high density legacy routes more efficiently. Take JFK-LHR for example, you could cut one of the rotations and probably make two flights in one single well set A380 (instead of flying two A330s/B764s, for example). But I am sure there is a reason probably which I naively do not know...
     
    CriticalPoint
    Posts: 1036
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    Re: Emirates Retires First A380

    Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:28 pm

    Jomar777 wrote:
    alfa164 wrote:
    airhansa wrote:
    I still wonder why no airline has managed to make the A380 work as a low-cost cattle class plane? An all-economy seating A380 can host 853 passengers.
    Around $30 per km in fuel.
    ATH to SIN is about 5621km, making fuel costs around $168630. Divided by 853 it would mean $197 as a minimum ticket price. I didn't include staffing costs as a low cost country can provide cheaper staffing, but overall a ticket price lower than $300 doesn't seem that illogical.
    For lower distance routes that are busy it's possible to have prices as lower than $50 in terms of fuel.
    Though Emirates may not get away with it, surely India or a Eastern European country like Greece could?


    1) You try to find 853 people who will reliably and regularly fill up the plane;

    2) You handle to emergency evacuation test and see how long it takes to get 853 people off the plane.

    That... plus a lot more... and you will have your answer...


    I think you are right but I guess the main reasons would be:

    a. The amount of crew on board plus on the ground to fly this bird would make ticket prices unprofitable. Even more if you consider the turnaround time which is so key for a LCC;
    b. Most of LCCs at least in Europe, with some exceptions, fly to secondary Airports which might not necessarily be able to handle an A380 on a LCC configuration (let alone some like those used by Ryanair which would not be able to handle an A380 full stop).

    I also remember that, when the A380 was initially advertised, there were indeed plans for it to operate on high densities (e.g. Japanese routes - never materialized as we know...) so I am pretty sure that it can handle 800 plus passengers on an emergency situation since it would have been project for it.

    What sometimes wonders me is why didn't any US airlines (Delta for that matter) not consider it since it could fly high density legacy routes more efficiently. Take JFK-LHR for example, you could cut one of the rotations and probably make two flights in one single well set A380 (instead of flying two A330s/B764s, for example). But I am sure there is a reason probably which I naively do not know...


    First anything to LHR especially from NY is frequency driven. Combining flights would actually be bad for DL. It’s the same reason United flew 757s to LHR from EWR.....the frequency was mor important.

    Second the US is not a market for the A380 because of the hub structure we have. You can get to Tokyo on US carriers from:

    LAX/SFO/PDX/SEA/SLC/DEN/IAH/DFW/MSP/ORD/
    DTW/EWR/JFK/IAD/ATL

    Airlines that have A380s had a single or double hub structure so they could fill the seats.
     
    Jomar777
    Posts: 552
    Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

    Re: Emirates Retires First A380

    Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:36 pm

    CriticalPoint wrote:
    Jomar777 wrote:
    alfa164 wrote:

    1) You try to find 853 people who will reliably and regularly fill up the plane;

    2) You handle to emergency evacuation test and see how long it takes to get 853 people off the plane.

    That... plus a lot more... and you will have your answer...


    I think you are right but I guess the main reasons would be:

    a. The amount of crew on board plus on the ground to fly this bird would make ticket prices unprofitable. Even more if you consider the turnaround time which is so key for a LCC;
    b. Most of LCCs at least in Europe, with some exceptions, fly to secondary Airports which might not necessarily be able to handle an A380 on a LCC configuration (let alone some like those used by Ryanair which would not be able to handle an A380 full stop).

    I also remember that, when the A380 was initially advertised, there were indeed plans for it to operate on high densities (e.g. Japanese routes - never materialized as we know...) so I am pretty sure that it can handle 800 plus passengers on an emergency situation since it would have been project for it.

    What sometimes wonders me is why didn't any US airlines (Delta for that matter) not consider it since it could fly high density legacy routes more efficiently. Take JFK-LHR for example, you could cut one of the rotations and probably make two flights in one single well set A380 (instead of flying two A330s/B764s, for example). But I am sure there is a reason probably which I naively do not know...


    First anything to LHR especially from NY is frequency driven. Combining flights would actually be bad for DL. It’s the same reason United flew 757s to LHR from EWR.....the frequency was mor important.

    Second the US is not a market for the A380 because of the hub structure we have. You can get to Tokyo on US carriers from:

    LAX/SFO/PDX/SEA/SLC/DEN/IAH/DFW/MSP/ORD/
    DTW/EWR/JFK/IAD/ATL

    Airlines that have A380s had a single or double hub structure so they could fill the seats.


    Thanks for this - it is news to me. I sometimes always wondered why, for example, you would have BA and AA flights to JFK so close to each other form an Airport (LHR) which is so slot constrained.

    But we learn every day.
     
    CriticalPoint
    Posts: 1036
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    Re: Emirates Retires First A380

    Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:42 pm

    Jomar777 wrote:
    CriticalPoint wrote:
    Jomar777 wrote:

    I think you are right but I guess the main reasons would be:

    a. The amount of crew on board plus on the ground to fly this bird would make ticket prices unprofitable. Even more if you consider the turnaround time which is so key for a LCC;
    b. Most of LCCs at least in Europe, with some exceptions, fly to secondary Airports which might not necessarily be able to handle an A380 on a LCC configuration (let alone some like those used by Ryanair which would not be able to handle an A380 full stop).

    I also remember that, when the A380 was initially advertised, there were indeed plans for it to operate on high densities (e.g. Japanese routes - never materialized as we know...) so I am pretty sure that it can handle 800 plus passengers on an emergency situation since it would have been project for it.

    What sometimes wonders me is why didn't any US airlines (Delta for that matter) not consider it since it could fly high density legacy routes more efficiently. Take JFK-LHR for example, you could cut one of the rotations and probably make two flights in one single well set A380 (instead of flying two A330s/B764s, for example). But I am sure there is a reason probably which I naively do not know...


    First anything to LHR especially from NY is frequency driven. Combining flights would actually be bad for DL. It’s the same reason United flew 757s to LHR from EWR.....the frequency was mor important.

    Second the US is not a market for the A380 because of the hub structure we have. You can get to Tokyo on US carriers from:

    LAX/SFO/PDX/SEA/SLC/DEN/IAH/DFW/MSP/ORD/
    DTW/EWR/JFK/IAD/ATL

    Airlines that have A380s had a single or double hub structure so they could fill the seats.


    Thanks for this - it is news to me. I sometimes always wondered why, for example, you would have BA and AA flights to JFK so close to each other form an Airport (LHR) which is so slot constrained.

    But we learn every day.


    Yeah think of that route as equivalent to NY-SFO/LAX. If you want the high fares you need the frequency.
     
    SteelChair
    Posts: 1428
    Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

    Re: Emirates Retires First A380

    Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:49 pm

    426Shadow wrote:
    SteelChair wrote:
    The failure of the A380 has manifested itself so thoroughly that it is going out of production. Yet, people are still postulating wild theories on this thread.

    The A380 is too big, too heavy, to inefficient, and too expensive. The day of the quad jet is over


    You bout to make some people in here cry lol.

    To me the A380 was always a vanity peen swinging project. The Concorde was also but to a lesser degree. The difference is back then everyone was working on a supersonic jet, but only one ever had a serious run in the end. The A380 was not the same as they weren't inventing a new wheel so much as making it slightly bigger. That's the main reason it never stood a chance.


    Well I've been plenty critical of Boeing, so hopefully people will see that i am even-handed. Too big is too big, whether its the 777x or 748 or A380
     
    JayinKitsap
    Posts: 2161
    Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

    Re: Emirates Retires First A380

    Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:57 pm

    In the US, there used to be widebodies flying some of the busiest routes. Now it is all back to 737's and 320's, I suppose the airlines that actually pay the bills know what is the most profitable equipment for each route.

    Even in Japan all of the domestic 747s doing short hops are disappearing.

    I believe the US was the first country to really do deregulation, its now been 30+ years where it has been the wild west. Plane fares today are 2/3 of what they were then, in real dollars under half what we had to pay then. Massive increase in volume because of it so it has been good, but screw up and not read the market right - yikes.
     
    Dynamac
    Posts: 1
    Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:54 pm

    Re: Emirates Retires First A380

    Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:27 am

    I was wondering why the reg seemed so familiar, then I realised it was amazingly my only A380 flight to date AKL-SYD when it wasn't even a year old. It was quite a memorable trip because it was my first flight without my parents and with my now wife. Specifically picked the a380 option expecting it was the first of many. I just remember it being so much more spacious and quiet.

    Now it's already heading for the scrapper.
     
    dtw2hyd
    Posts: 8269
    Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

    Re: Emirates Retires First A380

    Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:19 am

    Is it officially retired or one of those Emirates signature unconfirmed perpetual rumors.
    All posts are just opinions.
     
    Jetport
    Posts: 126
    Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:23 pm

    Re: Emirates Retires First A380

    Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:09 am

    MEA-707 wrote:
      Jetport wrote:
      Why did they repaint it white, seems like a waste of money? Even if this one is leased and the owner wants it white, you would think Emirates would split the savings of not having to repaint it with the owner and they would gladly accept since there is a 99.99% chance this aircraft gets scrapped.

      Many airlines' PR departments are really sensitive about this and take care their logos or colours are removed from non airworthy aircraft. Pictures of a halfly scrapped A380 in Emirates colours would give the impression the airlines fleet is rickety and obsolete, it will be used for memes, etc.


      That is silly and irrational. But PR and Marketing folks are often silly and irrational. How much does it cost to paint an A380 white just to send it to the scrapper? I can't imagine Southwest and Ryanair repaint their planes when the retire them.
       
      Fuling
      Posts: 276
      Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:41 am

      Re: Emirates Retires First A380

      Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:42 am

      Jetport wrote:
      MEA-707 wrote:
        Jetport wrote:
        Why did they repaint it white, seems like a waste of money? Even if this one is leased and the owner wants it white, you would think Emirates would split the savings of not having to repaint it with the owner and they would gladly accept since there is a 99.99% chance this aircraft gets scrapped.

        Many airlines' PR departments are really sensitive about this and take care their logos or colours are removed from non airworthy aircraft. Pictures of a halfly scrapped A380 in Emirates colours would give the impression the airlines fleet is rickety and obsolete, it will be used for memes, etc.


        That is silly and irrational. But PR and Marketing folks are often silly and irrational. How much does it cost to paint an A380 white just to send it to the scrapper? I can't imagine Southwest and Ryanair repaint their planes when the retire them.


        It's not silly and irrational. Painting it white before scrapping takes away any negative impression to the 'not-so-aviation-savvy' that the airline's aircraft being badly maintained. A nervous flyer might also have a hard time seeing (in person or images) a broken up EK aircraft and might not book with EK in the future simply based on that recollection of 'the broken up EK aircraft'.

        A lot of airlines cover up titles/logos when scrapping or an accident. Airlines naturally have a lot of face, and aircraft liveries is marketing too. So a billboard on a torn up plane isn't great.
         
        User avatar
        qf789
        Moderator
        Posts: 11097
        Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

        Re: Emirates Retires First A380

        Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:23 am

        JayinKitsap wrote:
        Even in Japan all of the domestic 747s doing short hops are disappearing.



        Are disappearing? The last one to be retired was 6 years ago by ANA (2014) and Japan Airlines 9 years ago (2011)
        Forum Moderator
         
        A380MSN004
        Posts: 731
        Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:07 am

        Re: Emirates Retires First A380

        Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:29 am

        alfa164 wrote:
        airhansa wrote:
        I still wonder why no airline has managed to make the A380 work as a low-cost cattle class plane? An all-economy seating A380 can host 853 passengers.
        Around $30 per km in fuel.
        ATH to SIN is about 5621km, making fuel costs around $168630. Divided by 853 it would mean $197 as a minimum ticket price. I didn't include staffing costs as a low cost country can provide cheaper staffing, but overall a ticket price lower than $300 doesn't seem that illogical.
        For lower distance routes that are busy it's possible to have prices as lower than $50 in terms of fuel.
        Though Emirates may not get away with it, surely India or a Eastern European country like Greece could?


        1) You try to find 853 people who will reliably and regularly fill up the plane;

        2) You handle to emergency evacuation test and see how long it takes to get 853 people off the plane.



        Emergency evacuation test certified 873 participants (max capacity pax config + crew) back in 2006

        https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... -test.html
         
        A380MSN004
        Posts: 731
        Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:07 am

        Re: Emirates Retires First A380

        Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:30 am

        Jetport wrote:
        Why did they repaint it white, seems like a waste of money? Even if this one is leased and the owner wants it white, you would think Emirates would split the savings of not having to repaint it with the owner and they would gladly accept since there is a 99.99% chance this aircraft gets scrapped.


        This one is owned by EK
         
        User avatar
        flee
        Posts: 1277
        Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:14 am

        Re: Emirates Retires First A380

        Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:34 am

        A380MSN004 wrote:
        alfa164 wrote:
        airhansa wrote:
        I still wonder why no airline has managed to make the A380 work as a low-cost cattle class plane? An all-economy seating A380 can host 853 passengers.
        Around $30 per km in fuel.
        ATH to SIN is about 5621km, making fuel costs around $168630. Divided by 853 it would mean $197 as a minimum ticket price. I didn't include staffing costs as a low cost country can provide cheaper staffing, but overall a ticket price lower than $300 doesn't seem that illogical.
        For lower distance routes that are busy it's possible to have prices as lower than $50 in terms of fuel.
        Though Emirates may not get away with it, surely India or a Eastern European country like Greece could?

        1) You try to find 853 people who will reliably and regularly fill up the plane;

        2) You handle to emergency evacuation test and see how long it takes to get 853 people off the plane.


        Emergency evacuation test certified 873 participants (max capacity pax config + crew) back in 2006

        https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... -test.html

        I am always sceptical of the evacuation certification test procedure. It always assumes that the aircraft is intact and in perfect condition. In many cases, when pax have to evacuate an aircraft, it is following some incident or crash. The plane will have broken bits and pieces as well as blockage to the emergency exits. It will take much longer to evacuate!

        Sad to see the EK A380 go but this is a scheduled retirement - so no big deal. For me, the A380 is still the most comfortable aircraft to fly in and I will always try to book on an airline that operates to the destination I am travelling to.
         
        USAirKid
        Posts: 621
        Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

        Re: Emirates Retires First A380

        Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:06 am

        Jetport wrote:
        That is silly and irrational. But PR and Marketing folks are often silly and irrational. How much does it cost to paint an A380 white just to send it to the scrapper? I can't imagine Southwest and Ryanair repaint their planes when the retire them.


        Imagine harder..



         
        User avatar
        Revelation
        Posts: 23910
        Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

        Re: Emirates Retires First A380

        Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:01 am

        A380MSN004 wrote:
        This one is owned by EK

        Interesting. Since TFA suggests this retirement is happening a few months earlier than planned, I wonder if this indicates that there will be a wholesale retirement of the early frames by EK since they have no need to consult with leasing firms? It's pretty clear they aren't getting value from the parked frames, might as well get some that you know you don't need or want off the books as soon as possible.
        Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
        The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
        Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
        The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
         
        airbazar
        Posts: 10110
        Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

        Re: Emirates Retires First A380

        Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:16 pm

        SteelChair wrote:
        The failure of the A380 has manifested itself so thoroughly that it is going out of production. Yet, people are still postulating wild theories on this thread.

        The A380 is too big, too heavy, to inefficient, and too expensive. The day of the quad jet is over

        That's all relative. Failure for whom? EK certainly doesn't think the A380 was a failure.
         
        SteelChair
        Posts: 1428
        Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

        Re: Emirates Retires First A380

        Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:55 pm

        airbazar wrote:
        SteelChair wrote:
        The failure of the A380 has manifested itself so thoroughly that it is going out of production. Yet, people are still postulating wild theories on this thread.

        The A380 is too big, too heavy, to inefficient, and too expensive. The day of the quad jet is over

        That's all relative. Failure for whom? EK certainly doesn't think the A380 was a failure.


        Failure for Airbus. They lost billions on the program.
         
        User avatar
        par13del
        Posts: 10261
        Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

        Re: Emirates Retires First A380

        Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:01 pm

        airbazar wrote:
        SteelChair wrote:
        The failure of the A380 has manifested itself so thoroughly that it is going out of production. Yet, people are still postulating wild theories on this thread.

        The A380 is too big, too heavy, to inefficient, and too expensive. The day of the quad jet is over

        That's all relative. Failure for whom? EK certainly doesn't think the A380 was a failure.

        Interesting as there is a debate on whether EK is successful or a subsidized entity.
         
        A330Inter
        Posts: 64
        Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:59 pm

        Re: Emirates Retires First A380

        Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:38 pm

        par13del wrote:
        airbazar wrote:
        SteelChair wrote:
        The failure of the A380 has manifested itself so thoroughly that it is going out of production. Yet, people are still postulating wild theories on this thread.

        The A380 is too big, too heavy, to inefficient, and too expensive. The day of the quad jet is over

        That's all relative. Failure for whom? EK certainly doesn't think the A380 was a failure.

        Interesting as there is a debate on whether EK is successful or a subsidized entity.


        Success because it took Emirates and its shareholders/owners where they aimed to be in 2020, one of the top leading carriers in the world and a world recognised brand.
         
        Draken21fx
        Posts: 241
        Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:38 am

        Re: Emirates Retires First A380

        Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:27 pm

        airhansa wrote:
        I still wonder why no airline has managed to make the A380 work as a low-cost cattle class plane? An all-economy seating A380 can host 853 passengers.

        Around $30 per km in fuel.

        ATH to SIN is about 5621km, making fuel costs around $168630. Divided by 853 it would mean $197 as a minimum ticket price. I didn't include staffing costs as a low cost country can provide cheaper staffing, but overall a ticket price lower than $300 doesn't seem that illogical.

        For lower distance routes that are busy it's possible to have prices as lower than $50 in terms of fuel.

        Though Emirates may not get away with it, surely India or a Eastern European country like Greece could?


        Well Greece is widely regarded as more Western than Eastern Europe by most. Don't forget that Greece was never under the USSR but, since you brought Greece as an example, although they might get cheap cabin crew there is no way they can fill a plane of 800+ people to SIN.

        Wasnt Scoot flying that route a few years ago?

        Greece's economy is focused around touristic services so they would be no business traffic in the foreseeable future, nor Singapore is a place with a large Greek diaspora, so you would struggle to fill all seats with tourists and what would you do during winter months?

        The only place I can see cattle class 380s working is on busy low cost airports of cities where you have 4-5 widebodies daily to a specific destination as they can lower the cost and consolidate those to 3 departure per day, or they can increase seats offered. In Western Europe there is only a handful of those airports at the moment and I dont see them increasing anytime soon. ATH is definitely not congested compared to some other European airports so you are much better off sending a 787 like Scoot did.
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