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Antaras
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VietJet's A321 skids off runway in SGN

Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:44 am

https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/aircraft-skids-off-runway-in-hcmc-amid-heavy-rains-4115370.html
An A321-211WL operated by VietJet Air flying PQC-SGN as flight VJ322 had skidded of the runwar 25L of SGN.
fr24 link: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/vj322#24b1f789
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Base on the article:
With Storm Nuri forming over the East Sea early on Saturday, heavy rains and strong winds have lashed many places in southern Vietnam, including HCMC, since the afternoon of Saturday, according to the Southern Region Hydrology Meteorology Forecast Station.

Falling tree branches due to heavy rains killed one man and injured at least another in the city on Saturday.

The storm is heading northward toward the southern coast of China.


The runway has been temporarily closed until 5PM (local time GMT+7)
Last edited by Antaras on Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Antaras
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Re: VietJet's A321 skids off runway in SGN

Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:47 am

Airframe info:
Reg: VN-A657
Type: Airbus A321-211(WL)
MSN: 8215
Age: just more than 2 years old

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889091
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Re: VietJet's A321 skids off runway in SGN

Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:14 am

What's Airbus' SOP for a runway overrun/incident like this? Looks like the evacuation slides have not been deployed, but the flaps and spoilers are still extended?

I know for the B737, the flaps are fully extended to assist pax egress from the overwing emergency exits (should an emergency evacuation be required).
 
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Antaras
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Re: VietJet's A321 skids off runway in SGN

Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:20 am

889091 wrote:
What's Airbus' SOP for a runway overrun/incident like this? Looks like the evacuation slides have not been deployed, but the flaps and spoilers are still extended?

I know for the B737, the flaps are fully extended to assist pax egress from the overwing emergency exits (should an emergency evacuation be required).

Idk why didn't the crews activated the evacuation slides, as the accident was quite serious. Besides that, it is also nonsensical when the flaps and thrust reservers were still extended (no overwing exit on A321ceo)?

Or the pilots were just busying escaping the aircraft and forgot to deactivate those things?
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Antaras
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Re: VietJet's A321 skids off runway in SGN

Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:56 am

Many flights at SGN have been delayed and cancelled now (affected flights included int'l flight such as EVA), and at this moment both runways are closed. Flights are drawing circles on South Vietnam Airspace and above the South China Sea.
VJ itself has to cancelled approx a dozen of domestic flights which due to be operated by the aircraft engaging in the accident.

Truly a disaster now in SGN. Some flight were diverted to nearby airports such as CXR or VCA.
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MrHMSH
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Re: VietJet's A321 skids off runway in SGN

Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:25 am

Whoops-a-daisy. I looked at the rain clouds and thought 'that is a motherload of rain' so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that something happened. Plane needs a good scrub down!
 
B777LRF
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Re: VietJet's A321 skids off runway in SGN

Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:47 am

Antaras wrote:
Idk why didn't the crews activated the evacuation slides, as the accident was quite serious. Besides that, it is also nonsensical when the flaps and thrust reservers were still extended (no overwing exit on A321ceo)?

Or the pilots were just busying escaping the aircraft and forgot to deactivate those things?


Or, maybe, instead of accusing the crew of being negligent in their duties, there might have been factors involved in this incident or, indeed, the airline's SOP that might perfectly well explain why the flaps are left in the position they are? Do let us know which criteria you used to assess the seriousness of this incident, and how you measured them. To me it looks like the structural integrity is intact, it's standing on all 3 legs and there's no trace of fire-

Why do people feel the need to speculate on details they haven't got the faintest idea, knowledge of or qualifications on?
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dreamliner8910
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Re: VietJet's A321 skids off runway in SGN

Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:48 am

Antaras wrote:
889091 wrote:
What's Airbus' SOP for a runway overrun/incident like this? Looks like the evacuation slides have not been deployed, but the flaps and spoilers are still extended?

I know for the B737, the flaps are fully extended to assist pax egress from the overwing emergency exits (should an emergency evacuation be required).

Idk why didn't the crews activated the evacuation slides, as the accident was quite serious. Besides that, it is also nonsensical when the flaps and thrust reservers were still extended (no overwing exit on A321ceo)?

Or the pilots were just busying escaping the aircraft and forgot to deactivate those things?


- Flaps / Spoilers are extended for/on landing, so it's more a case of why weren't they stowed. I'd imagine it was not a high priority item, and potentially not advisable to stow. What damage is to be done in this scenario with leaving them extended?

- Evacuation is one of the most dangerous things you can do with an aircraft and passengers. You are going to cause mass panic, injury (both guaranteed), and likely death. What in this scenario is serious enough to warrant that? Is there a fire? Is there a reason the passengers need to get off the aircraft in a panicked scenario? Aircraft is on the grass, engines are shut down...what's going to make things worse

- Why would you suggest the pilots were busy getting off the aircraft, what stressor is there once the engines are shut down for the pilots to panic about. You are on firm (ish) land, all heat sources and ignition sources controlled, you are not going anywhere.
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: VietJet's A321 skids off runway in SGN

Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:18 pm

dreamliner8910 wrote:
Evacuation is one of the most dangerous things you can do with an aircraft and passengers. You are going to cause mass panic, injury (both guaranteed), and likely death.


Likely death from people sliding into some grass and maybe getting their shoes muddy?
 
DAL763ER
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Re: VietJet's A321 skids off runway in SGN

Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:25 pm

DLASFlyer wrote:
dreamliner8910 wrote:
Evacuation is one of the most dangerous things you can do with an aircraft and passengers. You are going to cause mass panic, injury (both guaranteed), and likely death.


Likely death from people sliding into some grass and maybe getting their shoes muddy?


From the panic and people trampling each other.

I agree with dreamliner8910 - why activate the slides when the situation is under control? Slides would not help at all in this scenario and cause unnecessary injury.
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: VietJet's A321 skids off runway in SGN

Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:31 pm

Antaras wrote:
889091 wrote:
What's Airbus' SOP for a runway overrun/incident like this? Looks like the evacuation slides have not been deployed, but the flaps and spoilers are still extended?

I know for the B737, the flaps are fully extended to assist pax egress from the overwing emergency exits (should an emergency evacuation be required).

Idk why didn't the crews activated the evacuation slides, as the accident was quite serious. Besides that, it is also nonsensical when the flaps and thrust reservers were still extended (no overwing exit on A321ceo)?

Or the pilots were just busying escaping the aircraft and forgot to deactivate those things?



The QRH for the A320 is pretty short if an evacuation is required:

  • Parking Brake
  • Notify ATC
  • Notify Cabin Crew
  • Check Zero Delta P (depressurize the airplane)
  • Engines Off
  • Push Fire P/Bs
  • Agents as required
  • Initiate evacuation

Overrunning the the runway is not cause for evacuation. If there was a need to evacuate Such as fire, the QRH does not instruct the pilots to retract flaps/thrust reversers. I don’t see any evidence that the pilots didn’t follow established QRH guidelines

DLASFlyer wrote:
dreamliner8910 wrote:
Evacuation is one of the most dangerous things you can do with an aircraft and passengers. You are going to cause mass panic, injury (both guaranteed), and likely death.


Likely death from people sliding into some grass and maybe getting their shoes muddy?


I’m not so sure about likely death. I don’t think evacuations themselves cause death, but they certainly cause injury. Broken bones and minor injuries are assumed. Think about the risk to a wheelchair passenger. Unlikely death, but serious injury is possible.
 
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Antaras
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Re: VietJet's A321 skids off runway in SGN

Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:46 pm

VJ crews decided not to activate the slides as a lesson from the past.
Last year, a VJ's A321neo had both front wheels fallen of while landing. Evacuation slides were deployed, and the Vietnamese people didn't know how to calmly escape the plane.

As a result, several left the plane with broken bones, even though the accident was not as serious as the today runway-skidding incident. However, seems like VJ crews are re-trained with those situations. If there was no last year incident, most likely pax from the today flight would leave the plane by the slides with some unnecessary injuries

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Antaras
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Re: VietJet's A321 skids off runway in SGN

Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:57 pm

By the accident and the closure of SGN, we have the longest TPE-SGN flight in the history.
Check out playback of flight BR395 from Taipei to Ho Chi Minh City on Flightradar24, which took nearly 7 and a half hours :D. https://fr24.com/data/flights/br395#24b1f7ce
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Antaras
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Re: VietJet's A321 skids off runway in SGN

Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:52 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
Whoops-a-daisy. I looked at the rain clouds and thought 'that is a motherload of rain' so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that something happened. Plane needs a good scrub down!

Well it was a damn rainy evening in Saigon...
======================================
Vietnam authorities revoked the licenses of the 2 pilots engaged in the accident:
https://vnexpress.net/phi-cong-cua-may-bay-truot-khoi-duong-bang-bi-thu-bang-lai-4115474.html
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Flow2706
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Re: VietJet's A321 skids off runway in SGN

Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:57 pm

The decision to evacuate or not is a judgment call, you have to evaluate the situation and the come to a sound decision within a very short period of time. If there is no imminent danger (fire, smoke in the cabin, major fuel/oil leak etc...) it is usually safer to remain in the aircraft, as evacuation usually causes injuries among the passengers.
The evacuation checklist does not call for flaps and spoilers to be retracted, as mentioned by an earlier post. If the decision is made not to evacuate, but the aircraft is on the grass I would rather leave all items where they are until a proper inspection of the surfaces is carried out to avoid secondary damage. Possibly some item got stuck in between the flaps and causes further damage when the flaps are retracted. This is not a procedure (there is no procedure for "Runway excursion"), but also a judgment call. Airbus advised to leave the flaps extended after landing if the approach was made in icing conditions, as ice on the flaps may damage the mechanism. Same applies in case of severe bird strikes during approach.
 
DALCE
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Re: VietJet's A321 skids off runway in SGN

Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:00 pm

Did they run out of 737’s in Asia :stirthepot: :white:
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,223,E75,E90,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,
753,763,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
dreamliner8910
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Re: VietJet's A321 skids off runway in SGN

Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:52 pm

The chance of death of a passenger is far far greater in an uncontrolled environment such as an airfield in heavy rain, slippery surfaces, and passengers in a panic than in the controlled environment of an aircraft with no engines running, someone in control, less panicked, non- dangerous environment. Remember Asiana at SFO? I believe it was two deaths having successfully evacuated. You can sit there and say they had to evacuate (yes they did), but the passengers got hit by a fire truck in poor visibility. On the basis an aircrafts just come off the runway, we can assume (a dangerous word I know) that braking action was not as expected. Imagine passengers evacuate, congregate on the taxiway, fire truck comes steaming down in a panic and aquaplanes... I'm not saying death is certain in an evacuation, but in this situation, death is far more likely in an evacuation, than by staying on board.

By the way, the only reason to stow the spoilers would be if you had overwing exits (passengers near moving parts = not good). No overwing exit...no need to stow?
 
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Aesma
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Re: VietJet's A321 skids off runway in SGN

Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:51 pm

Is that right engine a write off ? It has eaten a lot of mud it seems.
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spacecadet
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Re: VietJet's A321 skids off runway in SGN

Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:45 am

It is SOP at most airlines I know of, not just this one, to initiate an evacuation only when there's imminent danger in remaining inside the aircraft. I don't see what about this accident would indicate imminent danger. Remember that the pilots even have gear temperature sensor readings, and that's about the only thing that I'd be really worried about as a pilot in this situation. (It's surely part of the checklist they were following as well.)

As for flaps, they just ran the plane through a bunch of mud. The right wing, at least, is clearly covered in mud. The last thing you want to do is retract flaps with mud, rocks, and other crud stuck to them. This is also SOP.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
crownvic
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Re: VietJet's A321 skids off runway in SGN

Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:39 am

DALCE wrote:
Did they run out of 737’s in Asia :stirthepot: :white:


You just ruined my fun! I was just getting ready to write:
"The A321W is a very unsafe plane and they are getting too old. They should be banned from flying anymore. When are they going to start retiring them? I think these countries should really consider much stricter penalties if airlines continue to fly A321Ws anymore. I don't think they are safe!" :)

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