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Blerg
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Re: Austrian Airlines CEO: These planes (767/777) no longer have a future

Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:15 pm

Situation in Vienna is also becoming interesting in terms of market-share. It's a comparison of January to August.

Wizz Air: 8% to 15%
Austrian Airlines: 40% to 34%
Lauda: 11% to 25%

https://newsabc.net/wizz-air-was-able-t ... in-vienna/
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Austrian Airlines CEO: These planes (767/777) no longer have a future

Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:18 pm

I think OS will retain a portfolio of long haul services, but a very limited one, and would only grow it if traffic levels ever resume to pre-pandemic highs. The 787 seems like the perfect plane for OS and I think the JFK/EWR routes (maybe just EWR in the end), one other UA hub in the US (ORD or IAD) and seasonal operations to the US West Coast might come back, and one Asia destination, but that's probably all. Austria is a rich country and a lot of money has been poured into VIE Airport to not use it to some of its potential. I could also see the A321XLR having a future role in a re-shaped long haul fleet. The 777/767 fleet is old. Extremely well maintained and a very good product, but pandemic or not, it is/was time for them to exit the fleet.
Last edited by Cointrin330 on Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
curlowl
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Re: Austrian Airlines CEO: These planes (767/777) no longer have a future

Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:25 pm

Long-haul was the only thing at OS that made any money and without it, LH Group can kiss VIE good-bye.
 
Bricktop
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Re: Austrian Airlines CEO: These planes (767/777) no longer have a future

Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:40 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
I think OS will retain a portfolio of long haul services, but a very limited one, and would only grow it if traffic levels ever resume to pre-pandemic highs. The 787 seems like the perfect plane for OS and I think the JFK/EWR routes (maybe just EWR in the end), one other UA hub in the US (ORD or IAD) and seasonal operations to the US West Coast might come back, and one Asia destination, but that's probably all. Austria is a rich country and a lot of money has been poured into VIE Airport to not use it to some of its potential. I could also see the A321XLR having a future role in a re-shaped long haul fleet. The 777/767 fleet is old. Extremely well maintained and a very good product, but pandemic or not, it is/was time for them to exit the fleet.

OS continues flying into EWR but have scrapped JFK since March/Covid. It would not shock me to see that continue even in better times. EWR has the UA connections. Filling a 767 or even a 787 should not be that hard to VIE.
 
Antarius
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Re: Austrian Airlines CEO: These planes (767/777) no longer have a future

Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:48 pm

I do not understand this. Fuel is really really cheap. There is no economic rationale to replace functional aircraft at a time when the cost of a new aircraft will vastly outstrip to operational cost.
Militant Centrist
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Antarius
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Re: Austrian Airlines CEO: These planes (767/777) no longer have a future

Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:51 pm

Lootess wrote:
Of course the 777 has no future, it's a 1995 plane. It's already reached retirement age.


Their 777s are significantly younger than that with the oldest delivered in 2005.

Unless you're making a clever comment about the type, in which case they should retire their a320s (1987 plane) and 737s (1967 plane)
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Blerg
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Re: Austrian Airlines CEO: These planes (767/777) no longer have a future

Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:54 pm

Antarius wrote:
Lootess wrote:
Of course the 777 has no future, it's a 1995 plane. It's already reached retirement age.


Their 777s are significantly younger than that with the oldest delivered in 2005.

Unless you're making a clever comment about the type, in which case they should retire their a320s (1987 plane) and 737s (1967 plane)


Well that said, they already retired the 1967 airplane from their fleet :D

Though I loved flying on the B736, such a cute littel plane, like flying on a rocket.
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Austrian Airlines CEO: These planes (767/777) no longer have a future

Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:04 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Can the A321XLR make it to New York from Vienna? I mean once you factor in all the winds and non-direct routing.


New York almost definitely. It is only 3600 nm, the A321XLR can do 4700 nm. It could do it with an average headwind across the entire route of over 120 knots. The basic A321LR already did similar length flights across the atlantic.


Who is using the A321LR on 9 hour flights?

4700nm is a marketing number. The real world with winds, weight and balance limits, weather alternates, etc will be less than that. How far the A321 can get into North America from VIE will be interesting. I doubt it will be able to get to LAX or MIA. New York should be the most doable, however it also is the city that probably has the most demand so the A321 may be too small.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Austrian Airlines CEO: These planes (767/777) no longer have a future

Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:34 pm

Bricktop wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
I think OS will retain a portfolio of long haul services, but a very limited one, and would only grow it if traffic levels ever resume to pre-pandemic highs. The 787 seems like the perfect plane for OS and I think the JFK/EWR routes (maybe just EWR in the end), one other UA hub in the US (ORD or IAD) and seasonal operations to the US West Coast might come back, and one Asia destination, but that's probably all. Austria is a rich country and a lot of money has been poured into VIE Airport to not use it to some of its potential. I could also see the A321XLR having a future role in a re-shaped long haul fleet. The 777/767 fleet is old. Extremely well maintained and a very good product, but pandemic or not, it is/was time for them to exit the fleet.

OS continues flying into EWR but have scrapped JFK since March/Covid. It would not shock me to see that continue even in better times. EWR has the UA connections. Filling a 767 or even a 787 should not be that hard to VIE.


OS can fly to both JFK and EWR post-COVID. The market is big enough. EWR for OS is more about connections and feed.
 
airbazar
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Re: Austrian Airlines CEO: These planes (767/777) no longer have a future

Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:48 pm

Blerg wrote:
Can the A321XLR make it to New York from Vienna? I mean once you factor in all the winds and non-direct routing.

I have my doubts that it can do it in the Winter. TP's LR's barely make it to IAD from LIS in the Winter and that's a more southern route which implies less strong headwinds.They often stop for fuel in PDL.
An XLR on VIE-JFK will likely make a refueling stop frequently in the Winter.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=lis-iad%0D ... =wls&DU=nm
 
HB-IWC
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Re: Austrian Airlines CEO: These planes (767/777) no longer have a future

Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:02 pm

Antarius wrote:
Their 777s are significantly younger than that with the oldest delivered in 2005.


The oldest aircraft OE-LPA was delivered to Lauda in 1997, quite a bit earlier than 2005.
 
Antarius
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Re: Austrian Airlines CEO: These planes (767/777) no longer have a future

Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:30 pm

HB-IWC wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Their 777s are significantly younger than that with the oldest delivered in 2005.


The oldest aircraft OE-LPA was delivered to Lauda in 1997, quite a bit earlier than 2005.


Ah ha. Missed that. Thanks.
Militant Centrist
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Tiredofhumanity
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Re: Austrian Airlines CEO: These planes (767/777) no longer have a future

Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:41 pm

HB-IWC wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Their 777s are significantly younger than that with the oldest delivered in 2005.


The oldest aircraft OE-LPA was delivered to Lauda in 1997, quite a bit earlier than 2005.


Also, the remaining 763s are all from 2000, not 1986.
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian Airlines to shrink by 20% by 2022

Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:02 am

More problem for VIE based airlines, Cyprus introduces quarantine requirements for those arriving from Austria. Currently Austrian Airlines, Wizz Air and Lauda operate flights between Vienna and Larnaca/Paphos.

https://www.austrianaviation.net/detail ... sterreich/
 
hitower3
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Re: Austrian Airlines CEO: These planes (767/777) no longer have a future

Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:55 am

Capricorn wrote:
Does LH & LX maybe have a couple of surplus A330s they could lend to OS during the transition? They could send some of them to OS while traffic is not at 100% and then replace them down the road with 787-8/9s. Would solve to problem of the ageing fleet at OS and what to do with some long haul planes that currently are just siting around.

But not sure how practical that would end up be, given pilot conversion retraining to A330 and so on.


Dear Capricorn,

Well, in theory, this could be a good idea to give OS a swarm of A330:
- Capacity quite right for their needs
- Commonality with their A320 fleet and with all other LH group airlines, all use A330s
- Economically better than 767, 777ER
- Younger frames available, but old enough to be priced right for a cash-stripped OS

BUT: All A333 in LH group's fleets are at most 233/234t variants (AFAIK). Their range is insufficient or at least marginal for a couple of their destinations: LAX, NRT, CPT.

Therefore, either A339 or B789 are the only aircraft that can reasonably play the "one-size-fits-all" role for OS. And since LH group did not order any 330NEOs, it's pretty much set for the B789.

Hendric
 
kimimm19
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Re: Austrian Airlines CEO: These planes (767/777) no longer have a future

Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:00 pm

VSMUT wrote:


kimimm19 wrote:
It would be a crime if OS didn't receive the 787 soon.

In comparison, LH and LX don't need them.


They all need them. Austrian is the weakest of the 3, and will certainly have problems filling the 787 profitably. Better to focus them at Lufthansa.

In any case, deliveries are still 2 years away.




LX most certainly do not need them. LH doesn't need to be adding any more fleet types.
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian Airlines to shrink by 20% by 2022

Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:48 am

OE-LPF, Austrian Airlines' latest widebody addition to the fleet (May 8th 2018), is being sent to the desert.

https://www.austrianwings.info/2020/10/ ... ie-wueste/

Anyone know the status of the B763s? Have any been retired or are they kept due to smaller capacity?
 
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mercure1
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Re: Austrian Airlines to shrink by 20% by 2022

Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:28 am

For those that miss OS, they opened a pop up store in downtown Vienna.

Get your souvenirs now.

Image
Image

https://www.aircraftinteriorsinternatio ... store.html
mercure f-wtcc
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian Airlines to shrink by 20% by 2022

Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:54 am

In September VIE numbers shrank by 81.1% compared to last year. In total the airport handled 562,247 travelers.

https://www.austrianwings.info/2020/10/ ... september/
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian Airlines to shrink by 20% by 2022

Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:58 am

In other, slightly related news, City Airport Train temporarily suspends operations due to low demand.

https://www.cityairporttrain.com/en/home
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian Airlines to shrink by 20% by 2022

Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:16 am

Austrian Airlines to ground all B777s and A320 family aircraft. It's winter flying will focus on using B767s, E95s and Q400s.

https://www.austrianaviation.net/detail ... g-777-ein/
 
AA737-823
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Re: Austrian Airlines to shrink by 20% by 2022

Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:45 am

Blerg wrote:
Austrian Airlines to ground all B777s and A320 family aircraft. It's winter flying will focus on using B767s, E95s and Q400s.

https://www.austrianaviation.net/detail ... g-777-ein/


What a shame. Fingers crossed for their long-term success.
In my dream world, Austrian re-fleets with the C-Series/A220 and the 787. It'd be nice!
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian Airlines to shrink by 20% by 2022

Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:43 am

AA737-823 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Austrian Airlines to ground all B777s and A320 family aircraft. It's winter flying will focus on using B767s, E95s and Q400s.

https://www.austrianaviation.net/detail ... g-777-ein/


What a shame. Fingers crossed for their long-term success.
In my dream world, Austrian re-fleets with the C-Series/A220 and the 787. It'd be nice!


Travel restrictions have been rather brutal for them. I remember their first big blow came when the Austrian government introduced a flight ban for the Balkans. Simultaneously they suspended VIE-ORD as around 70% of the passengers came as transfers from that region. Since then they have been struggling big time.
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian Airlines to shrink by 20% by 2022

Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:39 am

Austrian Airlines resumes Moscow but temporarily suspends seven destinations:

Chisinau
Iasi
Lviv
Leipzig
Lyon
Nuremberg
Odessa

Even though Austria introduced a curfew, those who have plane tickets can leave their homes so OS and other airlines operating in and out of Vienna won't be impacted.

https://www.austrianaviation.net/detail ... ecken-ein/
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: Austrian Airlines to shrink by 20% by 2022

Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:39 am

Doesn't help that a few of the short haul routes covered by OS are also served by OBB Railjet, which is arguably one of the best and most successful rail products that Europe has seen in the past 10 years, plus there seems to be a general revival of rail travel due to flight shaming.
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian Airlines to shrink by 20% by 2022

Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:44 am

jeffrey0032j wrote:
Doesn't help that a few of the short haul routes covered by OS are also served by OBB Railjet, which is arguably one of the best and most successful rail products that Europe has seen in the past 10 years, plus there seems to be a general revival of rail travel due to flight shaming.


Do you have any source to back your claim regarding flight shaming? From what I know that's only a thing in places like Sweden.
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: Austrian Airlines to shrink by 20% by 2022

Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:57 am

Blerg wrote:
jeffrey0032j wrote:
Doesn't help that a few of the short haul routes covered by OS are also served by OBB Railjet, which is arguably one of the best and most successful rail products that Europe has seen in the past 10 years, plus there seems to be a general revival of rail travel due to flight shaming.


Do you have any source to back your claim regarding flight shaming? From what I know that's only a thing in places like Sweden.

No Austrian specific data, but next door in Germany:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesasqui ... eason-why/

This is pre-covid data. Subsequently, there could be changes in demand for air and rail travel in Europe favouring trains.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... per-trains
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian Airlines to shrink by 20% by 2022

Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:07 am

jeffrey0032j wrote:
Blerg wrote:
jeffrey0032j wrote:
Doesn't help that a few of the short haul routes covered by OS are also served by OBB Railjet, which is arguably one of the best and most successful rail products that Europe has seen in the past 10 years, plus there seems to be a general revival of rail travel due to flight shaming.


Do you have any source to back your claim regarding flight shaming? From what I know that's only a thing in places like Sweden.

No Austrian specific data, but next door in Germany:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesasqui ... eason-why/

This is pre-covid data. Subsequently, there could be changes in demand for air and rail travel in Europe favouring trains.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... per-trains


Well I would take it with a grain of salt as they compare overall numbers, they are not comparing passenger numbers between same city pairs on which both planes and trains operate. Furthermore, I think we will need at least a few seasons to see if this trend continues. One report is simply not enough to make such a bold statement.
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian Airlines to shrink by 20% by 2022

Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:40 pm

Carnage continues.
After suspending Chisinau, Iasi, Lyon, Lviv, Leipzig, Nuremberg and Odessa, Austrian Airlines will be cutting additional destinations. These are:

Bangkok
Bologna
Chicago
Yerevan
Klagenfurt
Cologne
Košice
Nice
Podgorica

Some like TGD will have Montenegro Airlines but what about some like Cologne? Will this city pair be left without an air connection or will someone like Eurowings or Ryanair still operate between the two cities?

https://www.aerotelegraph.com/austrian- ... ausduennen
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Austrian Airlines to shrink by 20% by 2022

Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:53 pm

Is it still worthwhile for the terminal at Klagenfurt to remain open between now and mid-Dec 2021 ? It looks like all scheduled passenger flights are cancelled
 
Blerg
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Rumor: Lufthansa looking to sell Austrian Airlines

Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:47 pm

Good evening,

According to Austrian Wings website, Der Spiegel speculated that Lufthansa is looking to sell its subsidiary Austrian Airlines. Apparently Carsten Spohr said that they will have to sell their silverware so the newspaper interpreted it as if they are looking to get rid of OS. As they say, where there is smoke, there is fire.

Could it be that Lufthansa is hoping the Austrian government would re-nationalize OS by buying back the shares from LH?

Austrian Airlines is currently losing one to two million Euros per day which comes out to around 40 millions each month. OS currently operates just 10% of its last year's network. The other day they announced a new round of terminations indicating that the situation actually went from bad to worse.

Other than the Austrian government, I don't see who else would be interested in buying OS?

https://www.austrianwings.info/2020/11/ ... o-verlust/
https://www.austrianwings.info/2020/11/ ... geruechte/
 
LX138
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Re: Rumor: Lufthansa looking to sell Austrian Airlines

Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:12 pm

It wouldn't surprise me they are looking to sell them. I would be be surprised if they couldn't find a buyer however. Every investment fund from LA to Lahore will be after OS if they can find a way to pick it apart and make some money somehow - and that's not a good thing.

You'd almost certainly get rivals looking at them too, even under a covert company vehicle to disguise their own issues - thinking Delta, IAG, Air
China, QR.

I hope they can recover as they had a good Asian niche and maintained a good service standard that set them apart.
StarWorld Team - The ultimate airline alliance
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Rumor: Lufthansa looking to sell Austrian Airlines

Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:32 pm

Update - Austrian seem to have denied it - now need Lufthansa to deny it as well
https://www.wienerzeitung.at/nachrichte ... rueck.html
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian Airlines News and Discussion

Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:38 pm

Shame that we have yet another mega thread where information will get lost.

I think OS has to deny it, no one wants to admit that their division is being sold because it performed worse than expected. I don't see how anyone would buy them now with the crisis going on and with both Wizz Air and Ryanair not going anywhere. OS' high costs certainly don't help either.
 
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Ty134A
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Re: Austrian Airlines News and Discussion

Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:55 pm

Blerg wrote:
Shame that we have yet another mega thread where information will get lost.

I think OS has to deny it, no one wants to admit that their division is being sold because it performed worse than expected. I don't see how anyone would buy them now with the crisis going on and with both Wizz Air and Ryanair not going anywhere. OS' high costs certainly don't help either.


How does OS' cost compare to the others in LH group? Who produces cheapest? What about the products, transfer times, etc.?
TU3/5,T20,IL8/6/W/9,I14,YK4/2,AN2/4,A26,A28,A38,A40,A81,SU9,L4T,L11,D1C,M11,M80/2/7,
AB4/6,318-321,313,332/3,342/3/5/6,712,703,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,741/L/2/3/4,752/3,763,
77E/W,J31,F50,F70,100,ATP,142/3,AR8/1,SF3,S20,D38,MIH,EM4,E75/90/95,AT7,DHT/3/4,CRJ/7/9
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian Airlines News and Discussion

Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:01 pm

Ty134A wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Shame that we have yet another mega thread where information will get lost.

I think OS has to deny it, no one wants to admit that their division is being sold because it performed worse than expected. I don't see how anyone would buy them now with the crisis going on and with both Wizz Air and Ryanair not going anywhere. OS' high costs certainly don't help either.


How does OS' cost compare to the others in LH group? Who produces cheapest? What about the products, transfer times, etc.?


I don't know about others but their costs are much higher than FR and W6 meaning that winning the war in Vienna will be extremely difficult for them. As for transfer times, OS is quite good and they sell 25 minute connections and many times in the past both me and my luggage arrived safely to our final destination. They seem to be running a tight ship, unfortunately they struggle with profits.
 
oldJoe
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Re: Austrian Airlines News and Discussion

Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:02 pm

Blerg wrote:
Shame that we have yet another mega thread where information will get lost.

I think OS has to deny it, no one wants to admit that their division is being sold because it performed worse than expected. I don't see how anyone would buy them now with the crisis going on and with both Wizz Air and Ryanair not going anywhere. OS' high costs certainly don't help either.


Wich information got lost ? Speculation of "Der Spiegel" is not factual information.
LH`s socalled "silverware" is for sure not Austrian Airlines.
Ryanair with much lower costs still burned 1+ million € per day in the first 6 months of fiscal year 2020 - 2021 ( April to September ) wich includes summer holiday peak season and the outlook for the upcoming months are not promising any better.
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian Airlines News and Discussion

Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:29 am

oldJoe wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Shame that we have yet another mega thread where information will get lost.

I think OS has to deny it, no one wants to admit that their division is being sold because it performed worse than expected. I don't see how anyone would buy them now with the crisis going on and with both Wizz Air and Ryanair not going anywhere. OS' high costs certainly don't help either.


Wich information got lost ? Speculation of "Der Spiegel" is not factual information.
LH`s socalled "silverware" is for sure not Austrian Airlines.
Ryanair with much lower costs still burned 1+ million € per day in the first 6 months of fiscal year 2020 - 2021 ( April to September ) wich includes summer holiday peak season and the outlook for the upcoming months are not promising any better.


Information generally as people are not interested in going through mega threads in order to find information they need. It's much easier to have several smaller threads.

As for Der Spiegel, it doesn't matter if you consider them a valid source of information or not, they still have their own sources and LH offloading OS makes sense especially when you look at OS' old widebody fleet into which LH refused to invest a single penny so far. Also, as mentioned above, both Ryanair and Wizz Air seem to be sticking around Vienna and neither one plans on leaving. Where does that leave OS and what kind of long-term prospects do they have?

Are you seriously comparing Austrian Airlines to Ryanair? In 2019 OS carried 14.7 million, Ryanair 151 million. This year in the first six months (period you mentioned) Ryanair lost €197 million, Austrian Airlines published their EBIT H1 loss of €299 million.

Looking at the overall situation, it does make sense for LH to be looking at an exit strategy from Austrian Airlines. It's unfortunate we are in the middle of a pandemic otherwise OS would make the perfect addition to IAG which have been rather weak in eastern and south-eastern Europe since Malev went belly up.
 
oldJoe
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Re: Austrian Airlines News and Discussion

Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:06 am

Blerg wrote :
Information generally as people are not interested in going through mega threads in order to find information they need. It's much easier to have several smaller threads


For me it is still easier to read trough a mega thread instead of searching multiple single threads , just my opinion.

Blerg wrote :
As for Der Spiegel, it doesn't matter if you consider them a valid source of information or not, they still have their own sources


Really ??? Google for the name Claas Relotius and Der Spiegel. Fake news were published for facts ! When Carsten Spohr talks about to sell silverware, how Der Spiegel can claim what exactly he means ? Sell a airline or stakes in other airlines or LSG Sky Chef to name a few possibilities.So pure speculation. Everybody knows that at the moment there is not a good deal to make when you sell a airline, and defentily not Austrian Airlines.

Blerg wrote :
Are you seriously comparing Austrian Airlines to Ryanair?


I don`t ! For the size I would more compare LH with FR. LH with much higher costs transported less pax in 2019 than FR but still made more net profit !
And no , I don`t think LH will sell Austrian Airlines , because they need in the future ( even reduced ) long haul from Vienna too and exactly this is what wether Ryanair nor Wizz Air or any other LCC can offer at all , but there is the real €€€ to be made and not on intra European holiday backpackers heading for a cheap flight !
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Austrian Airlines News and Discussion

Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:37 am

Why does LH need an airline that offers long haul from Vienna ? The strength of OS lies in 2 things:
1 - Its network to eastern Europe - connecting people travelling between western Europe and eastern Europe (eg from Milan to Odessa) on a 1-stop ticket with a short connection.
Ryanair and Wizz have set up far more nonstop routes connecting western and eastern Europe than most people thought possible when LH bought OS in 2009, picking off much of the volume in Austrian's profitable core. Ryanair is not luxurious, but enough people prefer a cheap nonstop while being sold scratchcards, instead of a more comfortable but expensive 1-stop
2 - Near monopolistic control of air traffic between Austria and other German speaking areas of Europe. The train takes far too long for many people, particularly business travellers

If the above cannot be monetised to a sufficient degree, then there is little benefit to LH Group in owning OS
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian Airlines News and Discussion

Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:05 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Why does LH need an airline that offers long haul from Vienna ? The strength of OS lies in 2 things:
1 - Its network to eastern Europe - connecting people travelling between western Europe and eastern Europe (eg from Milan to Odessa) on a 1-stop ticket with a short connection.
Ryanair and Wizz have set up far more nonstop routes connecting western and eastern Europe than most people thought possible when LH bought OS in 2009, picking off much of the volume in Austrian's profitable core. Ryanair is not luxurious, but enough people prefer a cheap nonstop while being sold scratchcards, instead of a more comfortable but expensive 1-stop
2 - Near monopolistic control of air traffic between Austria and other German speaking areas of Europe. The train takes far too long for many people, particularly business travellers

If the above cannot be monetised to a sufficient degree, then there is little benefit to LH Group in owning OS


Don't forget that when it comes to connecting east with west there is also LO which has been aggressively expanding in this sector. OS used to be extremely strong in Ukraine (I think they even owned a share in PS) but LO has expanded greatly in this market as well. We will also have to wait and see what becomes of LO's presence in Budapest and if they go ahead with the massive expansion they planned.
 
oldJoe
Posts: 352
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:04 pm

Re: Austrian Airlines News and Discussion

Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:45 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Why does LH need an airline that offers long haul from Vienna ? The strength of OS lies in 2 things:
1 - Its network to eastern Europe - connecting people travelling between western Europe and eastern Europe (eg from Milan to Odessa) on a 1-stop ticket with a short connection.
Ryanair and Wizz have set up far more nonstop routes connecting western and eastern Europe than most people thought possible when LH bought OS in 2009, picking off much of the volume in Austrian's profitable core. Ryanair is not luxurious, but enough people prefer a cheap nonstop while being sold scratchcards, instead of a more comfortable but expensive 1-stop
2 - Near monopolistic control of air traffic between Austria and other German speaking areas of Europe. The train takes far too long for many people, particularly business travellers

If the above cannot be monetised to a sufficient degree, then there is little benefit to LH Group in owning OS


I`m not talking about Covid times but in general when I mention long haul from Vienna
Destinations Of Austrian Airlines like USA , Canada , Egypt , Jordan ,China , Hongkong , Japan , Maledives , Thailand , Seychelles , Mauritius , Iran , Irak , Israel and Jordan are for me not simple Eastern Europe connections from Vienna.
 
Blerg
Topic Author
Posts: 4441
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Austrian Airlines News and Discussion

Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:56 am

oldJoe wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Why does LH need an airline that offers long haul from Vienna ? The strength of OS lies in 2 things:
1 - Its network to eastern Europe - connecting people travelling between western Europe and eastern Europe (eg from Milan to Odessa) on a 1-stop ticket with a short connection.
Ryanair and Wizz have set up far more nonstop routes connecting western and eastern Europe than most people thought possible when LH bought OS in 2009, picking off much of the volume in Austrian's profitable core. Ryanair is not luxurious, but enough people prefer a cheap nonstop while being sold scratchcards, instead of a more comfortable but expensive 1-stop
2 - Near monopolistic control of air traffic between Austria and other German speaking areas of Europe. The train takes far too long for many people, particularly business travellers

If the above cannot be monetised to a sufficient degree, then there is little benefit to LH Group in owning OS


I`m not talking about Covid times but in general when I mention long haul from Vienna
Destinations Of Austrian Airlines like USA , Canada , Egypt , Jordan ,China , Hongkong , Japan , Maledives , Thailand , Seychelles , Mauritius , Iran , Irak , Israel and Jordan are for me not simple Eastern Europe connections from Vienna.


Jordan, Iran, Iraq and Israel are not long-haul flights, they are medium haul routes at best. Also, both Wizz Air and Ryanair fly from Vienna to Israel. Longest flight from all these is Tehran which is around 4 hours.
 
WrldTravlr65
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon May 13, 2019 12:14 am

Re: Austrian Airlines to shrink by 20% by 2022

Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:47 am

lesfalls wrote:
WrldTravlr65 wrote:
Very well could be. I know both my flights, LAX-VIE and VIE-LAX, were full last year, but I know that doesn't really mean anything.


Were there mainly Austrian onboard or connections?


Hard to say. I know the couple sitting next to me was from Vienna. They were in L.A. visiting friends who had moved to California from Austria.

That being said, not sure how many were connections. I know I was actually connecting in Vienna to Nice.

Sadly, I doubt we see Austrian in L.A. for much longer, assuming we ever do again.

I still have a voucher on OS as I was planning to travel to Austria for this past spring break, but alas that (obviously) went by the wayside once Covid hit. OS was kind enough to give me a voucher of equal value, but I will soon have to call them and see if they have extended it since the travel woes are continuing here in the USA. By the time things get back to "normal," I might be having to get myself to Chicago to cash in on that voucher.

A shame. I really did like my experiences on OS.
 
Blerg
Topic Author
Posts: 4441
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Austrian Airlines to shrink by 20% by 2022

Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:14 am

WrldTravlr65 wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
WrldTravlr65 wrote:
Very well could be. I know both my flights, LAX-VIE and VIE-LAX, were full last year, but I know that doesn't really mean anything.


Were there mainly Austrian onboard or connections?


Hard to say. I know the couple sitting next to me was from Vienna. They were in L.A. visiting friends who had moved to California from Austria.

That being said, not sure how many were connections. I know I was actually connecting in Vienna to Nice.

Sadly, I doubt we see Austrian in L.A. for much longer, assuming we ever do again.

I still have a voucher on OS as I was planning to travel to Austria for this past spring break, but alas that (obviously) went by the wayside once Covid hit. OS was kind enough to give me a voucher of equal value, but I will soon have to call them and see if they have extended it since the travel woes are continuing here in the USA. By the time things get back to "normal," I might be having to get myself to Chicago to cash in on that voucher.

A shame. I really did like my experiences on OS.


Don't know how relevant it is but this summer Austrian Airlines stated that 70% of passengers flying between VIE and ORD are transfers. I wouldn't be surprised if that number was even higher with LAX given how quickly they suspended it- transfers tend to be lower yielding than O&D ones.
 
Blerg
Topic Author
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Re: Austrian Airlines News and Discussion

Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:25 am

Austrian Airlines has decided to completely retire the remaining 9 Q400 aircraft in its fleet by the 2021 summer season. Interesting decision given that the Q400 is the backbone of their operations right now. Maybe OS feels that demand will recover from April so many Q400 routes could be taken over by the larger E95.

Six A319s as well as three older B767 have been retired and one B777 was ferried to Arizona for storage.

https://www.aerotelegraph.com/austrian- ... ihren-dash
 
bennett123
Posts: 10397
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Austrian Airlines News and Discussion

Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:03 pm

No surprise about the B767 which are about 28 years old. Most of the B777 are also 20 years plus with 3 which are 22-23 years old.

Is there any chance of them being converted to cargo?.
 
marcogr12
Posts: 533
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: Austrian Airlines News and Discussion

Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:13 pm

Blerg wrote:
Austrian Airlines has decided to completely retire the remaining 9 Q400 aircraft in its fleet by the 2021 summer season. Interesting decision given that the Q400 is the backbone of their operations right now. Maybe OS feels that demand will recover from April so many Q400 routes could be taken over by the larger E95.

Six A319s as well as three older B767 have been retired and one B777 was ferried to Arizona for storage.

https://www.aerotelegraph.com/austrian- ... ihren-dash


Shouldn't they have sth. to replace the Q400s for the thinner and/or winter routes? Maybe E175s for commonality with the E195s? The Fokkers 70s/100s served that purpose for years ...KLM took the E175s in their place along with the bigger models..Shouldn't OS do sth similar since they don't have any other plane of that size, contrary to LH/SKs CR9s..?
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
Blerg
Topic Author
Posts: 4441
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Re: Austrian Airlines News and Discussion

Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:29 pm

bennett123 wrote:
No surprise about the B767 which are about 28 years old. Most of the B777 are also 20 years plus with 3 which are 22-23 years old.

Is there any chance of them being converted to cargo?.


The youngest 777 in their fleet was the one to be stored, maybe leasing rate was the highest on it.

As for the B767 I think capacity-wise they are a better fit until market recovers.
 
Blerg
Topic Author
Posts: 4441
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Austrian Airlines News and Discussion

Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:36 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Austrian Airlines has decided to completely retire the remaining 9 Q400 aircraft in its fleet by the 2021 summer season. Interesting decision given that the Q400 is the backbone of their operations right now. Maybe OS feels that demand will recover from April so many Q400 routes could be taken over by the larger E95.

Six A319s as well as three older B767 have been retired and one B777 was ferried to Arizona for storage.

https://www.aerotelegraph.com/austrian- ... ihren-dash


Shouldn't they have sth. to replace the Q400s for the thinner and/or winter routes? Maybe E175s for commonality with the E195s? The Fokkers 70s/100s served that purpose for years ...KLM took the E175s in their place along with the bigger models..Shouldn't OS do sth similar since they don't have any other plane of that size, contrary to LH/SKs CR9s..?


I was also surprised the first time they announced the retirement of their Q400 because now the smallest plane will have 120 seats. This could prove challenging for certain regional markets where it might be too much of an aircraft. I guess we will have to see what happens. It could also be that they will reduce frequencies in favor of capacity.

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