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val1
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Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:16 pm

Both airlines will have a huge network in Brazil. Looks like Brazilian market is going to become duopoly between Latam-Azul and Gol.

https://www.latam.com/en_ca/press-room/ ... greements/
 
crosscheckyyz
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:41 pm

How big would a LATAM-Azul compared to Gol?
 
A330Inter
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:44 pm

Great move, stop the bloodbath!
 
val1
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:46 pm

crosscheckyyz wrote:
How big would a LATAM-Azul compared to Gol?

Latam-Azul together have 58% of domestic market
 
crosscheckyyz
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:55 pm

val1 wrote:
crosscheckyyz wrote:
How big would a LATAM-Azul compared to Gol?

Latam-Azul together have 58% of domestic market


Correct me if I'm wrong...

So Azul codeshares with different airlines not really favouring any particular alliance.

LATAM was *A, then OW, and after a 20% share purchase to DL but not necessarily SkyTeam.

And GOL seems to be kinda all over the place with their codeshare agreements.

Who will benefit most from this?
 
jbs2886
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:04 pm

val1 wrote:
crosscheckyyz wrote:
How big would a LATAM-Azul compared to Gol?

Latam-Azul together have 58% of domestic market


Azul's strength, IMO, is the domestic market - especially with the regional connectivity. I wonder if we will see a retrenchment of LATAM in domestic and Azul in longhaul? Prior to the virus, was LATAM successful in the domestic market, or was it supporting/necessary for longhaul operation?
 
bkmbr
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:04 pm

val1 wrote:
crosscheckyyz wrote:
How big would a LATAM-Azul compared to Gol?

Latam-Azul together have 58% of domestic market


IMHO this agreement will have a lot of problems to have the approval by CADE, the Brazil's national competition regulator the way it appears right now. The "50 non-overlapping domestic routes" are exactly on top of the highest passenger traffic routes in the country. This agreement is likely to have the same end as the TAM / Varig agreement in the early 2000s precisely because of a decision by CADE ordered them to finish the code-share. GOL's attorneys must now be writing the request for CADE to suspend this agreement right now.
 
val1
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:34 pm

crosscheckyyz wrote:
val1 wrote:
crosscheckyyz wrote:
How big would a LATAM-Azul compared to Gol?

Latam-Azul together have 58% of domestic market


Correct me if I'm wrong...

So Azul codeshares with different airlines not really favouring any particular alliance.

LATAM was *A, then OW, and after a 20% share purchase to DL but not necessarily SkyTeam.

And GOL seems to be kinda all over the place with their codeshare agreements.

Who will benefit most from this?

From business perspective, both airlines will benefit as it will reduce competition in pricing.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:38 pm

crosscheckyyz wrote:
val1 wrote:
crosscheckyyz wrote:
How big would a LATAM-Azul compared to Gol?

Latam-Azul together have 58% of domestic market


Correct me if I'm wrong...

So Azul codeshares with different airlines not really favouring any particular alliance.

LATAM was *A, then OW, and after a 20% share purchase to DL but not necessarily SkyTeam.

And GOL seems to be kinda all over the place with their codeshare agreements.

Who will benefit most from this?


UA owns part of Azul and is attempting to include them in the UA/AV joint venture.
 
JJ777
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:09 pm

I could be wrong but this could be the first step for AD to somehow acquire LATAM Brazil. Would of course face an uphill battle within Brazil's regulatory agencies but makes way too much sense for all players involved.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:26 am

A330Inter wrote:
Great move, stop the bloodbath!


That might 'fix' the problem of Brazilian carriers continually losing money (or, more precisely, failing to earn their long-term cost of capital over business cycles) but Brazilian consumers aren't going to like it if this duopoly exercises its pricing power. Ever buy market-price plane tickets with your own money?
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:43 am

This is really a deal that should only be allowed on AD's ATR routes and Embraer city pairs not served by JJ. Keep in mind that while AD has the smallest market share, AD doesn't really chase larger shares as it flies much smaller planes to thinner destinations, especially with its Embraer and ATR fleet.

Market share order: G3, JJ, AD

But now, here is the flight operations order: AD, G3, JJ. That is because until 2018, AD didn't operate a single 6-abreast airframe, using smaller planes to serve more destinations...destinations too thin for either G3 or JJ.

Six-abreast fleet size:
AD: 40 (to grow to 53 A20N and 10 A21N) (excluding the two B734 freighters)
G3: 109 (excluding the MAX)
JJ: 129 (plus 3 returning from OV, 1 lease transfer from AD, and 2 ex-O6 frames)
 
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SDUMIA
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:51 am

JJ777 wrote:
I could be wrong but this could be the first step for AD to somehow acquire LATAM Brazil. Would of course face an uphill battle within Brazil's regulatory agencies but makes way too much sense for all players involved.


Rumor is already spreading that Latam Brasil would be absorved into Azul. Latam Brasil is not included in the Chapter 11 proceedings filed in NY and since Latam Brasil is not listed in Brazil they are not entitled to a government bailout. The way I see it, the future in Brazilian commercial aviation will be a duopoly of Latam Br/Azul and Gol.
Latam (Chile) will survive as a complete separate entity.
 
mackdad
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:56 am

Sounds like the Varig and TAM codeshare they did back in 2003/2004
 
bkmbr
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:51 am

SDUMIA wrote:
JJ777 wrote:
I could be wrong but this could be the first step for AD to somehow acquire LATAM Brazil. Would of course face an uphill battle within Brazil's regulatory agencies but makes way too much sense for all players involved.


Rumor is already spreading that Latam Brasil would be absorved into Azul. Latam Brasil is not included in the Chapter 11 proceedings filed in NY and since Latam Brasil is not listed in Brazil they are not entitled to a government bailout. The way I see it, the future in Brazilian commercial aviation will be a duopoly of Latam Br/Azul and Gol.
Latam (Chile) will survive as a complete separate entity.


I don't believe that's a real possibility, and for more reasons then just for regulatory reasons or the size of Azul's operations. LATAM Brazil alone is bigger then every other LATAM subsidiary and a significant source of revenue that was able to provide money to operations that are well know money pits for LATAM (Argentina for example). LATAM Chile may be able to survive alone as a completely separate entity but all other operations in Argentina, Colombia, Ecuador and Peru would have to be closed, otherwise the company will go bankrupt. A merger between Azul and LATAM Brasil would only be beneficial to LATAM, for Azul would be a complete disaster IHMO, and yes, I know, it would not be the first time that a smaller company incorporates a larger company in Brazil (like when VARIG "bought" Real Aerovias in the 1960s) but the political and economic scenario today it is very different from the past.

mackdad wrote:
Sounds like the Varig and TAM codeshare they did back in 2003/2004


And it will probably have the same outcome, just switching actors.
 
Jomar777
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:36 am

Firstly, this is set for 50 non-overlapping routes only at present. Secondly, this is mainly due to the ongoing COVID19 situation.
To try to read any further is over reaching at the moment. I do not believe CADE will block the move. You might even see GOL, for example, reaching out to Voepass (previously known as Passaredo) for a similar arrangement.
Both Azul and Voepass do fly to locations and airports which neither LATAM Brazil nor Gol are able to attend and these are the ones specifically targeted on LATAM/Azuls codeshare agreement.

Secondly, consider that, until we know how LATAM (as a whole) will shape themselves pos-Chapter 11, there's not much to speculate. LATAM Brazil is the biggest and most profitable part of the group. Even though it is not involved on the Chapter 11 process, it must still offer some sort of leverage for the group. The other entities are not much relevant and may survive or fold depending on the future of the Group.

I for once would relish if LATAM was broken apart so that both Chilean and Brazilian entities were independent again. Nothing against either - just feel they would work better that way.
 
val1
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:03 am

Merger with Azul is not ruled out, says president of Latam.

Cadier also admitted that a merger with Azul may even take place in the future. He explained that the negotiations for an eventual union of the two companies are complex and unfeasible at the moment because of the crisis, while the "codeshare" is much simpler.

https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/business/2 ... e-da-latam
 
debonair
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:24 am

val1 wrote:
Merger with Azul is not ruled out, says president of Latam.

Cadier also admitted that a merger with Azul may even take place in the future. He explained that the negotiations for an eventual union of the two companies are complex and unfeasible at the moment because of the crisis, while the "codeshare" is much simpler.

https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/business/2 ... e-da-latam


I thought *A will invite AZUL (thanks to the cooperation with tap) and ow will invite GOL as AA partner... :confused:
 
val1
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:21 pm

debonair wrote:
val1 wrote:
Merger with Azul is not ruled out, says president of Latam.

Cadier also admitted that a merger with Azul may even take place in the future. He explained that the negotiations for an eventual union of the two companies are complex and unfeasible at the moment because of the crisis, while the "codeshare" is much simpler.

https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/business/2 ... e-da-latam


I thought *A will invite AZUL (thanks to the cooperation with tap) and ow will invite GOL as AA partner... :confused:


If Latam and Azul join together probably they are not going to join any global alliance. Azul is 8% owned by United and Latam is 20% owned by Delta. So if new company is formed they both will have interest in it.
Gol will definitely going to be close with AA. Maybe they will join Oneworld in the future.
 
incitatus
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:17 pm

bkmbr wrote:
val1 wrote:
crosscheckyyz wrote:
How big would a LATAM-Azul compared to Gol?

Latam-Azul together have 58% of domestic market


IMHO this agreement will have a lot of problems to have the approval by CADE, the Brazil's national competition regulator the way it appears right now. The "50 non-overlapping domestic routes" are exactly on top of the highest passenger traffic routes in the country. This agreement is likely to have the same end as the TAM / Varig agreement in the early 2000s precisely because of a decision by CADE ordered them to finish the code-share. GOL's attorneys must now be writing the request for CADE to suspend this agreement right now.


I had the same thought when I read about this.

Many parts of the Brazilian government do not understand the airline business and think that the industry should be made of 10 domestic competitors offering $50 trips on every route they serve. Three is plenty, but two is too few. Brazil has a large domestic market and three separate airlines fit neatly with the world organizing around three big airline alliance. If LATAM Brazil is not currently viable, they need to shed routes and assets. Just a soft tie-up with a competitor is nothing short of collusion.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
PB26
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:31 pm

val1 wrote:
Merger with Azul is not ruled out, says president of Latam.

Cadier also admitted that a merger with Azul may even take place in the future. He explained that the negotiations for an eventual union of the two companies are complex and unfeasible at the moment because of the crisis, while the "codeshare" is much simpler.

https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/business/2 ... e-da-latam

In other side, the Azul's CEO denied rumors about merger. :spin:

They need to sync the thoughts :lol:
Rio and all South America by Panair do Brasil’s jets.
 
incitatus
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:16 am

Jomar777 wrote:
Firstly, this is set for 50 non-overlapping routes only at present. Secondly, this is mainly due to the ongoing COVID19 situation.
To try to read any further is over reaching at the moment. I do not believe CADE will block the move. You might even see GOL, for example, reaching out to Voepass (previously known as Passaredo) for a similar arrangement.
Both Azul and Voepass do fly to locations and airports which neither LATAM Brazil nor Gol are able to attend and these are the ones specifically targeted on LATAM/Azuls codeshare agreement.

(….


This comparison LATAM + Azul with GOL + VoePass can't be serious. It is like Brazil makes a defence agreement with the US and Argentina to counterbalance makes one with Jamaica. No one knows what VoePass is. Its capacity is puny in the domestic market.

If the motivation is COVID, then the government should figure out a way to avoid over-capacity or predatory pricing in the industry, and not let two large competitors gang up on the rest. I hope this agreement is killed.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
Jomar777
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:16 am

incitatus wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
Firstly, this is set for 50 non-overlapping routes only at present. Secondly, this is mainly due to the ongoing COVID19 situation.
To try to read any further is over reaching at the moment. I do not believe CADE will block the move. You might even see GOL, for example, reaching out to Voepass (previously known as Passaredo) for a similar arrangement.
Both Azul and Voepass do fly to locations and airports which neither LATAM Brazil nor Gol are able to attend and these are the ones specifically targeted on LATAM/Azuls codeshare agreement.

(….


This comparison LATAM + Azul with GOL + VoePass can't be serious. It is like Brazil makes a defence agreement with the US and Argentina to counterbalance makes one with Jamaica. No one knows what VoePass is. Its capacity is puny in the domestic market.

If the motivation is COVID, then the government should figure out a way to avoid over-capacity or predatory pricing in the industry, and not let two large competitors gang up on the rest. I hope this agreement is killed.


You might not know what VoePass is but a lot of Brazilians know that they just got hold of 26 slots a CGH (including those inherited from the recent acquisition of MAP) which is a premium regional slot airport. They fly to a number of regional destinations as I stated which neither GOL or LATAM currently fully attend if at all. You can check about them around the internet (maybe you could try Passaredo - their old name).

Given the overall intention of having codeshares that do not overlap, their network is quite attractive - again - if you care to check how Brazil air traffic works and is distributed against their competition suffered against their coach network which is exemplar.

Might give you more information and be quite an interesting reading.

I suggest.
 
A3501041
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:34 pm

debonair wrote:
val1 wrote:
Merger with Azul is not ruled out, says president of Latam.

Cadier also admitted that a merger with Azul may even take place in the future. He explained that the negotiations for an eventual union of the two companies are complex and unfeasible at the moment because of the crisis, while the "codeshare" is much simpler.

https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/business/2 ... e-da-latam


I thought *A will invite AZUL (thanks to the cooperation with tap) and ow will invite GOL as AA partner... :confused:


I still think that sooner or later Star Alliance will invite AD as the airline could be included in UA/CM/AV joint venture, as well as their great parnership with TAP. Even thought a merge with Latam Brasil happens it is still a very feasible possibility.
 
bkmbr
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:46 pm

If I were to bet I would bet on nothing more than a temporary code share between the 2 companies. LATAM's Chapter 11 process in the USA and Chile expressly excluded LATAM Argentina and LATAM Brazil from this process and yesterday LATAM Argentina was closed. I think it is quite reasonable to believe that LATAM Brazil should be the target of some kind of negotiation in which the chapter 11 would harm it in some way. The Cueto Family may be wanting to get rid of LATAM Brazil's operation to capitalize the rest of the group and if I were to bet I would bet that Delta would be the buyer of LATAM's operation in Brazil. Since 2018 there is no longer any legal limitation in Brazil for foreign companies to own air companies in the country.
 
incitatus
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:54 pm

Jomar777 wrote:

You might not know what VoePass is but a lot of Brazilians know that they just got hold of 26 slots a CGH (including those inherited from the recent acquisition of MAP) which is a premium regional slot airport. They fly to a number of regional destinations as I stated which neither GOL or LATAM currently fully attend if at all. You can check about them around the internet (maybe you could try Passaredo - their old name).

Given the overall intention of having codeshares that do not overlap, their network is quite attractive - again - if you care to check how Brazil air traffic works and is distributed against their competition suffered against their coach network which is exemplar.

Might give you more information and be quite an interesting reading.

I suggest.


There is no need to suggest that I am uninformed.

Passaredo/VoePass is a puny airline with 30-50 flights per day. Compare that with the other three airlines that have 600-800 flights per day in the Brazilian domestic market. By ASK's, they are about 1% of the domestic ASK's of Gol; or LATAM. They are nearly irrelevant in the big picture, about 0.35% of domestic capacity.

CGH slots were valuable in the past. The future is a question mark. It may be that many people will avoid travel. Others may drive instead of flying, affecting CGH's predominantly short-haul markets. Travelers to Curitiba or Rio or Ribeirao can switch to driving. Those to Recife or Fortaleza most likely would not. Except for AUX-BSB and CGH-DOU, all VoePass routes are less than 500 miles. They are in a rough spot.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
Jomar777
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:41 am

incitatus wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:

You might not know what VoePass is but a lot of Brazilians know that they just got hold of 26 slots a CGH (including those inherited from the recent acquisition of MAP) which is a premium regional slot airport. They fly to a number of regional destinations as I stated which neither GOL or LATAM currently fully attend if at all. You can check about them around the internet (maybe you could try Passaredo - their old name).

Given the overall intention of having codeshares that do not overlap, their network is quite attractive - again - if you care to check how Brazil air traffic works and is distributed against their competition suffered against their coach network which is exemplar.

Might give you more information and be quite an interesting reading.

I suggest.


There is no need to suggest that I am uninformed.

Passaredo/VoePass is a puny airline with 30-50 flights per day. Compare that with the other three airlines that have 600-800 flights per day in the Brazilian domestic market. By ASK's, they are about 1% of the domestic ASK's of Gol; or LATAM. They are nearly irrelevant in the big picture, about 0.35% of domestic capacity.

CGH slots were valuable in the past. The future is a question mark. It may be that many people will avoid travel. Others may drive instead of flying, affecting CGH's predominantly short-haul markets. Travelers to Curitiba or Rio or Ribeirao can switch to driving. Those to Recife or Fortaleza most likely would not. Except for AUX-BSB and CGH-DOU, all VoePass routes are less than 500 miles. They are in a rough spot.


I am sorry you felt I was suggesting you are uninformed. This was not my intention at all.

But, again, you seem to miss the argument that it is not their market share here that is impacting but their coverage. they are not puny as you say. For Brazilian standards, they have a reasonable regional coverage. They are not GOL, LATAM or Azul but, given the latter two are already moving to a codeshare (which will NOT at present cover their whole respective networks - only the services which do not overlap - this "reduces" Azul's offering quite substantially...), it is natural for GOL to move towards VOEPASS.

As I said, the codeshare is only valid for non-overlapping services so it is not the whole Azul Network that is on offer - you might see that the number of flights involved is smaller.

As for CGH, please note that it normally operates at 20% over capacity. It is only, less busy than GRU itself in Brazil (surpases BSB, GIG and others...). It is not going to get any calmer after COVID19 given its coverage and the ability to deliver passenger straight within the City of Sao Paulo.

Brazil does not have intercity rail (let alone fast intercity rail). Ribeirão Preto is over 5 hours drive, Rio de Janeiro is about 6 hours and Curitiba is another 6 hours. Driving? Do you really know how Brazil's like for long distance driving? Their roads are much better and safer now but it is not like in Europe where you will find a service station with food and hotel every 20 miles or so... Most Brazilians use the coach (much better than European and US standard) but those take quite a while to reach their destinations and might sometimes be more expensive than a hop on a flight.

I used CGH and SDU a couple of times and can guarantee that, as soon as it is allowed, passengers will come back in droves - actually Brazil~s Domestic Flight coverage is not really much affected in regards to offerings although passengers have dropped.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:53 am

GOL has filed a complaint with Brazil's antitrust body (CADE) over the Azul and LATAM codesharing saying the marketplace is being distorted due to an increased market concentration particularly on 5 routes, 3 of which involve Sao Paulo.

GOL Files Complaint with Anti-Trust Authority Over Azul and LATAM Brasil Codeshare
https://airlinegeeks.com/2020/12/27/gol ... codeshare/
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:02 am

If correct in their analysis then GOL is very smart for questioning the alliance at a time when the pandemic is still depressing traffic flows and due diligence by Brasil's equivalent justice department must take into account the current temporary industry landscape that falsely suggests carriers need to partner up.
 
RDRogel
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:30 pm

And maybe Skyteam will let go of Aerolineas Argentinas if LATAM joins that alliance. Then AR will join Oneworld alliance & codeshare with Iberia & American Airlines.
 
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DL747400
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:04 pm

RDRogel wrote:
And maybe Skyteam will let go of Aerolineas Argentinas if LATAM joins that alliance. Then AR will join Oneworld alliance & codeshare with Iberia & American Airlines.


Argentina's competition authorities would be crazy to allow AR to cozy up to AA and join OW. That option should be off the table. Talk about market concentration........
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onwFan
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:46 pm

DL747400 wrote:
RDRogel wrote:
And maybe Skyteam will let go of Aerolineas Argentinas if LATAM joins that alliance. Then AR will join Oneworld alliance & codeshare with Iberia & American Airlines.


Argentina's competition authorities would be crazy to allow AR to cozy up to AA and join OW. That option should be off the table. Talk about market concentration........

Why exactly? How is it worse than having both LATAM and AR in the same alliance/partner circle for intra-South America? It is not about JVs; I think JVs are still not possible between the US & Argentina. AA & IB were both partners with AR before, and both even used to own AR at some point. AA and IB are the only meaningful partners for AR in North America & Europe; and they are badly going to need some support post-covid. It is clear that MIA/MAD/JFK are the probably only long haul destinations they can sustain profitably...

I think an AR defection from SkyTeam is probably a given. We just saw BA switching over to partnering with Gol Smiles. Soon we can expect IB to follow (UX and AR are already Smiles partners and a partnership with LA seems quite unlikely). When is AR’s membership coming for renewal - we will most likely hear something around then...
 
solracfunk14
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:17 pm

DL747400 wrote:
RDRogel wrote:
And maybe Skyteam will let go of Aerolineas Argentinas if LATAM joins that alliance. Then AR will join Oneworld alliance & codeshare with Iberia & American Airlines.


Argentina's competition authorities would be crazy to allow AR to cozy up to AA and join OW. That option should be off the table. Talk about market concentration........


Actually not, as long AR get benefits from it, the Argentina government will allow it. They protect too much the national airline and don't care about the others, look at all the mess around El Palomar operation.
 
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DL747400
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:48 pm

solracfunk14 wrote:
Actually not, as long AR get benefits from it, the Argentina government will allow it. They protect too much the national airline and don't care about the others, look at all the mess around El Palomar operation.


Yes, that is my point exactly. Argentina surely loves their protectionism.
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:58 am

JV's are not possible with Argentina as they don't hold open-skies agreements with either the US or EU.

For the U.S., the 1985 air service agreement was amended around the edges in 2019 and removed restrictions on frequencies and capacity, but falls short of open-skies. Meanwhile, for Europe, the final 2019 trade framework with Mercrosur bloc failed to include aviation, leaving individual agreements in place.

Not sure that will change soon knowing Argentina's general view on global free trade with its import restrictions and business environment.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
dcajet
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Re: Latam and Azul codeshare agreement in Brazil

Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:17 am

LAXintl wrote:
JV's are not possible with Argentina as they don't hold open-skies agreements with either the US or EU.

For the U.S., the 1985 air service agreement was amended around the edges in 2019 and removed restrictions on frequencies and capacity, but falls short of open-skies. Meanwhile, for Europe, the final 2019 trade framework with Mercrosur bloc failed to include aviation, leaving individual agreements in place.

Not sure that will change soon knowing Argentina's general view on global free trade with its import restrictions and business environment.


As long as the current administration is in office, all we'll see is more protectionism towards AR and phobia against any open skies treaties. That is, if the current world environment and local repercussions don't force them to change course. It will be hard to justify the continued propping up of AR once this pandemic is over and the exact toll to the economy will be clear for all to see (and feel).
Keep calm and wash your hands.

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