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Boeing757100
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What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:20 am

March 27, 2014: Word comes out that the highest respected charter airline in the USA is shutting down. The main reason was the inability to secure further funding from Cerberus, World’s first lien lender, and thus, they couldn't have enough money to operate. The era of seeing those white MD-11s at airports was over......

Anyways, were there any other reasons World shut down? I sure miss them. I had a memory of my first flight when I was barely one, a Southwest flight to San Fransisco. I saw this sleek and elegant Trijet on the taxiway, with others of the same type on the apron near the cargo area. The first question I asked my mum was "Why does that airline fly so many of those airplanes?" Nearly 12 years on, and that airline, known as World Airways, was history long ago. And I never even experienced those flights in my 13 years of living on planet Earth.

Other questions
Would it be necessary if World came back? I mean, there is no MAJOR charter operator. Sure, we have omni Air International, but that fleet is relatively small compared to World's former glory.
What would they fly if they came back? I guess MD-11s.........
Do we need World? That's up for speculation

Anyways, I miss World so much, I'm just asking my mum for a World MD-11 Geminijets for my Birthday..... :( How sad.
If you want one for yourself, here's the link: https://geminijets.shptron.com/p/gemini ... ways-md-11
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:59 am

I remember seeing World MD-11s operate in to IAH with the Sonair titles for the “Houston Express”. They operated Houston to Luanda, Angola as a scheduled charter for the oil industry in a high J layout. The service ran for a long time (sometime in the late 1990s to just a few years ago) and taken over by Atlas with their gold 744s when World went under. They arrived early in the morning and I would love seeing the front half of an MD-11 come out of the sky with the rear half engulfed in condensation while my mom dropped me off at school as a kid in Houston.
When wasn't America great?


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wjcandee
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:00 am

I have fond memories of World as well. Sadly, they were sold to a private equity firm that was trying to put World, ATA and some others together and corner the market in military flying. It didn't work out so well, as the military wasn't going to just deal with one vendor, and if I recall some of the "team" members on military flying did some things that hurt them as well, or maybe that was ATA. Regardless, it was sad -- a storied company. If you haven't seen the CBS News piece from the Vietnam War era, on the last flight from DaNang, when World did a lot of military and humanitarian flights, it was something. Amazing to watch Ed Daly, a former boxer and the founder of World, standing on the rear airstairs with his pistol, trying to keep all the men and soldiers flooding aboard. Amazing flying by Captain Ken Healy, getting that 727 airborne off the taxiway with bullet holes in her, and totally calm on the radio talking to his brethren in the plane alongside. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36lLBbhnkZU There's a nice piece about that day, and about Captain Healy, here: http://www.onacrew.com/ONAbasicKenHealy.html

Hope you get the Geminijet for your birthday, and keep up the enthusiasm about aviation and airlines from the past. Their stories give us something to learn from! And never let any nasty posters on the forum get to you -- it used to bother me years ago, but now I just ignore them and feel sorry for them that they're so nasty and sad, and I cherish the many friends I have made here on a.net -- they're all that matters.
 
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malaysia
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:10 am

Actually I last flew World Airways on scheduled service in the 1980s on the DC-10 from BWI-LAX when I was a child before it went to complete charter operations. Some other charter airlines still around besides Omni such as Atlas Air, IAero, etc. It all has to do who can cover all expenses and stay afloat by securing and maintain enough contracts such as military, sport teams, etc.
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
crownvic
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:32 am

Sadly, they just fell victim to what catches up to nearly every charter operator in the U.S.; a lack of consistent work, questionable finances, changing markets and so much else. I grew up in an era of the 60s and 70s where charter carriers were in abundance. Wars seemed to be the best friend of charter airlines. At airports like PHL, the ramps were littered with DC-8s/707s/990s of ONA, TIA, Saturn, World, Universal, Capitol, ModernAir, etc., etc. hauling troops everywhere. When wars would end, so would the business. They could sustain a certain amount of tour operator business, but the fleets were too large to stay afloat.

Another transition that hurt charter airlines was the behavior of tour operators. At one time, tour operators would solely use charter airlines. They would sign contracts with charter airlines that allowed these airlines to count on guaranteed business, for a certain period of time. Take Las Vegas for example. Airlines like ATA, Rich International, Laker and several others would run L1011/DC-10 types along with 727s from cities all over the Midwest and East, filled by tour operators. Not sure who started the changes, but these same tour operators figured out that they could guarantee and block seats on scheduled carriers as well flying to Vegas, but with much less risk. They also figured out that if there was a mechanical, the scheduled operators more than likely could accommodate their passengers on a subsequent flight. A luxury the charter operators found much more difficult to accomplish. It is my opinion, that was the beginning of the end, to charter operators. Sports teams also used to use a lot of charter operators, but even that business slowly migrated over to the scheduled carriers. The final straw, was probably 9/11. Operating costs for many airlines soared after 9/11, due to enhanced security requirements and mandatory cockpit door changes. This put many of the smaller charter carriers out of business that were flying Convair, Fokker and other types, because the door mods cost more than what the aircraft were worth. Many charter airlines could operate out of FBOs or private terminals, but after 9/11, any non private charter, had to go to the regular secured passenger terminals for screening, thus increasing operating costs and inconveniences.
 
32andBelow
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:03 am

The major airlines really do it all now. Delta has a huge charter operation including military and sports teams.
 
Ugly51
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:21 am

I did the Luanda - Houston - Luanda flight a few times when working for Chevron Texaco. All Business Class layout a very good but long flight.
 
alpine1989
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:01 pm

World Airways essentially purchased themselves when the company went private in a 2007 deal that combined ATA and World into a single holding company, Global Aero Logistics. In 2014 World finally collapsed unable to service the huge debt or secure new capital.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:24 pm

32andBelow wrote:
The major airlines really do it all now. Delta has a huge charter operation including military and sports teams.


If deregulation didn't kill the demand for separate charter companies in the U.S., the progressive unbundling of services (checked bags, carry on bags, change fees) did. Revenue Management has a good idea of marginal cost for any seat. Then you have the reach of the three U.S. global carriers and the power of their brands.
 
Worldair1
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:22 pm

I worked for them for 5 years (95 to 00) at the Herndon, VA office. Did purchasing, ops control, charter sales, great company and people. They couldn't ever get away from the military work. It was their bread and butter. All good thru the 2000's until the war on terror started to dry up the deployments. We would book other business all the time and then the Air Force would come in and want the aircraft for their use and we would end up screwing over the client by booking another charter to do what they charted us to do! Made them so mad when a Tower Air flight or Tradewinds L1011 showed up when they were expecting a WOA aircraft. Can't tell you how many times that happened when I was there.
 
fairk
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:24 pm

I only flew them once, in 1989 YVR to Prestwick PIK, return via KEF for fuel because headwinds were strong that day. It was a DC-8-63 that made a lot of noise on take off, but as a kid I didn't mind. The day we flew, there was a delay and they gave us vouchers to find supper. The seats were chosen using a sticker sheet which they peeled off and put on boarding passes.

Departing YVR, I was on the left side window seat. When we passed the Air Canada hanger, still on the ground, I was ready for the worst (usually your 777 is at 500 feet airborne by then...). It was a heart stopping moment for sure. What wonderful thunder from those engines!
 
airtran737
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:26 pm

As someone who was there for the shutdown there are a few key items that lead to the demise of World.

The purchase of North American Airlines ended up not being the benefit to World like it was initially marketed as. World never merged the two to get the ETOPS certificate that they wanted.

Matlin Patterson acquired World, ATA, North American, and Arrow AIr. Arrow was the first company that Matlin gutted and then moved on to ATA. World and North American were saddled with the debt of ATA and had to hit specific financial benchmarks every day. These benchmarks were tough to attain. Another contributing factor was the fact that World and North American shared a sales team that was absolutely dismal and only focused on AMC. I was on a 747 that landed in FRA for a LH Cargo charter. When we landed in FRA the landing caused chunks of ice to tear up the flaps. Our other 747 was in LEJ and going to operate an AMC cargo flight. Rather than preserving the LH charter, the sales team chose to focus on the AMC flight and canceled the LH charter leaving them high and dry. We never received a contract from them again. Eventually, in the bankruptcy Matlin wrote off their inventment in World, leaving Cerberus to come pick up what they could.

Other examples were when we got the 747 and had one in ATL at South Cargo and one in LEJ for months on end with no work for them. It wasn't until the MATV's were moved Bagram that the airplanes were consistently busy. World had also previously flown sports charters but managed to lose the Bills and the Jaguars due to reliability issues. The global economic downturn hit the cargo market especially hard. Contracts were being signed with no minimum monthly block hour marks and planes were barely flying. It was terrible. By the time the second trip to Chapter 11 came, the pilots and flight attendants weren't having it and basically told John Graber and Cerberus that they weren't going to help bail them out. I will forever loathe David Bourne and Teamsters 1224 for their attitude during this period. World lost its contract with Network Aviation Group to Atlas and Air Atlanta. They also lost the SonAir route to Atlas because of the flight attendants. Then as the war in the middle east drew down, they lost military hours. The ineptitude of the company put them into bankruptcy again. I was at Flyer732's wedding when they announced the second trip to CHapter 11. We all knew it was the end, and within eight months they were gone.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
BravoOne
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:00 pm

airtran737 wrote:
As someone who was there for the shutdown there are a few key items that lead to the demise of World.

The purchase of North American Airlines ended up not being the benefit to World like it was initially marketed as. World never merged the two to get the ETOPS certificate that they wanted.

Matlin Patterson acquired World, ATA, North American, and Arrow AIr. Arrow was the first company that Matlin gutted and then moved on to ATA. World and North American were saddled with the debt of ATA and had to hit specific financial benchmarks every day. These benchmarks were tough to attain. Another contributing factor was the fact that World and North American shared a sales team that was absolutely dismal and only focused on AMC. I was on a 747 that landed in FRA for a LH Cargo charter. When we landed in FRA the landing caused chunks of ice to tear up the flaps. Our other 747 was in LEJ and going to operate an AMC cargo flight. Rather than preserving the LH charter, the sales team chose to focus on the AMC flight and canceled the LH charter leaving them high and dry. We never received a contract from them again. Eventually, in the bankruptcy Matlin wrote off their inventment in World, leaving Cerberus to come pick up what they could.

Other examples were when we got the 747 and had one in ATL at South Cargo and one in LEJ for months on end with no work for them. It wasn't until the MATV's were moved Bagram that the airplanes were consistently busy. World had also previously flown sports charters but managed to lose the Bills and the Jaguars due to reliability issues. The global economic downturn hit the cargo market especially hard. Contracts were being signed with no minimum monthly block hour marks and planes were barely flying. It was terrible. By the time the second trip to Chapter 11 came, the pilots and flight attendants weren't having it and basically told John Graber and Cerberus that they weren't going to help bail them out. I will forever loathe David Bourne and Teamsters 1224 for their attitude during this period. World lost its contract with Network Aviation Group to Atlas and Air Atlanta. They also lost the SonAir route to Atlas because of the flight attendants. Then as the war in the middle east drew down, they lost military hours. The ineptitude of the company put them into bankruptcy again. I was at Flyer732's wedding when they announced the second trip to CHapter 11. We all knew it was the end, and within eight months they were gone.


So where did Hollis Harris fit int the scheme of this at the end, or was his presence way prior to this debacle?
 
Worldair1
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:21 pm

Only reason I left was because he moved the company to Atlanta and we were under a 10% salary reduction. They were already hurting financially then before 9/11 and had just invested a lot of money on the Herndon company HQ revamping the entire 3rd floor of the office building they rented. It was really nice when completed and then abandoned a year or so later. Had to cost them a mint. Rumor was he built the new HQ in Peach Tree buying his own land and a relatives construction company building it as well as his daughter as the real estate rep. Can't confirm any of that.
 
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klm617
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:59 pm

fairk wrote:
I only flew them once, in 1989 YVR to Prestwick PIK, return via KEF for fuel because headwinds were strong that day. It was a DC-8-63 that made a lot of noise on take off, but as a kid I didn't mind. The day we flew, there was a delay and they gave us vouchers to find supper. The seats were chosen using a sticker sheet which they peeled off and put on boarding passes.

Departing YVR, I was on the left side window seat. When we passed the Air Canada hanger, still on the ground, I was ready for the worst (usually your 777 is at 500 feet airborne by then...). It was a heart stopping moment for sure. What wonderful thunder from those engines!



You sure that wasn't a Worldways Canada DC-8-63.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
MO11
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:19 pm

klm617 wrote:
fairk wrote:
I only flew them once, in 1989 YVR to Prestwick PIK, return via KEF for fuel because headwinds were strong that day. It was a DC-8-63 that made a lot of noise on take off, but as a kid I didn't mind. The day we flew, there was a delay and they gave us vouchers to find supper. The seats were chosen using a sticker sheet which they peeled off and put on boarding passes.

Departing YVR, I was on the left side window seat. When we passed the Air Canada hanger, still on the ground, I was ready for the worst (usually your 777 is at 500 feet airborne by then...). It was a heart stopping moment for sure. What wonderful thunder from those engines!



You sure that wasn't a Worldways Canada DC-8-63.


World was out of DC-8s by 1984.....
 
catiii
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:35 pm

Putting aside the whats and hows of their demise, that retrojet was beautiful:


 
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CrimsonNL
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:53 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
Anyways, were there any other reasons World shut down? I sure miss them. I had a memory of my first flight when I was barely one, a Southwest flight to San Fransisco. I saw this sleek and elegant Trijet on the taxiway, with others of the same type on the apron near the cargo area. The first question I asked my mum was "Why does that airline fly so many of those airplanes?"


You have memories from when you were 1? :shock:
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:14 pm

CrimsonNL wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
Anyways, were there any other reasons World shut down? I sure miss them. I had a memory of my first flight when I was barely one, a Southwest flight to San Fransisco. I saw this sleek and elegant Trijet on the taxiway, with others of the same type on the apron near the cargo area. The first question I asked my mum was "Why does that airline fly so many of those airplanes?"


You have memories from when you were 1? :shock:


Plus he was asking that question when he was 1... :P Precocious... lol
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:19 pm

CrimsonNL wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
Anyways, were there any other reasons World shut down? I sure miss them. I had a memory of my first flight when I was barely one, a Southwest flight to San Fransisco. I saw this sleek and elegant Trijet on the taxiway, with others of the same type on the apron near the cargo area. The first question I asked my mum was "Why does that airline fly so many of those airplanes?"


You have memories from when you were 1? :shock:


And seems his speech skills were coming on strong.
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:53 pm

32andBelow wrote:
The major airlines really do it all now. Delta has a huge charter operation including military and sports teams.



No, they basically have the 11 757-200s solely for NBA purpose.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:55 pm

airtran737 wrote:
As someone who was there for the shutdown there are a few key items that lead to the demise of World.

The purchase of North American Airlines ended up not being the benefit to World like it was initially marketed as. World never merged the two to get the ETOPS certificate that they wanted.

Matlin Patterson acquired World, ATA, North American, and Arrow AIr. Arrow was the first company that Matlin gutted and then moved on to ATA. World and North American were saddled with the debt of ATA and had to hit specific financial benchmarks every day. These benchmarks were tough to attain. Another contributing factor was the fact that World and North American shared a sales team that was absolutely dismal and only focused on AMC. I was on a 747 that landed in FRA for a LH Cargo charter. When we landed in FRA the landing caused chunks of ice to tear up the flaps. Our other 747 was in LEJ and going to operate an AMC cargo flight. Rather than preserving the LH charter, the sales team chose to focus on the AMC flight and canceled the LH charter leaving them high and dry. We never received a contract from them again. Eventually, in the bankruptcy Matlin wrote off their inventment in World, leaving Cerberus to come pick up what they could.

Other examples were when we got the 747 and had one in ATL at South Cargo and one in LEJ for months on end with no work for them. It wasn't until the MATV's were moved Bagram that the airplanes were consistently busy. World had also previously flown sports charters but managed to lose the Bills and the Jaguars due to reliability issues. The global economic downturn hit the cargo market especially hard. Contracts were being signed with no minimum monthly block hour marks and planes were barely flying. It was terrible. By the time the second trip to Chapter 11 came, the pilots and flight attendants weren't having it and basically told John Graber and Cerberus that they weren't going to help bail them out. I will forever loathe David Bourne and Teamsters 1224 for their attitude during this period. World lost its contract with Network Aviation Group to Atlas and Air Atlanta. They also lost the SonAir route to Atlas because of the flight attendants. Then as the war in the middle east drew down, they lost military hours. The ineptitude of the company put them into bankruptcy again. I was at Flyer732's wedding when they announced the second trip to CHapter 11. We all knew it was the end, and within eight months they were gone.


Thanks for the explanation. But one more question, is the market even there for at least one large charter operator? I don't know, considering COVID changing things, but I still am wondering.
 
fairk
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:02 pm

MO11 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
fairk wrote:
I only flew them once, in 1989 YVR to Prestwick PIK, return via KEF for fuel because headwinds were strong that day. It was a DC-8-63 that made a lot of noise on take off, but as a kid I didn't mind. The day we flew, there was a delay and they gave us vouchers to find supper. The seats were chosen using a sticker sheet which they peeled off and put on boarding passes.

Departing YVR, I was on the left side window seat. When we passed the Air Canada hanger, still on the ground, I was ready for the worst (usually your 777 is at 500 feet airborne by then...). It was a heart stopping moment for sure. What wonderful thunder from those engines!



You sure that wasn't a Worldways Canada DC-8-63.


World was out of DC-8s by 1984.....


Yes, Worldways it was, sorry.
 
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Polot
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:33 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
The major airlines really do it all now. Delta has a huge charter operation including military and sports teams.



No, they basically have the 11 757-200s solely for NBA purpose.

That is just their dedicated charter fleet. The US3 all do extensive charter ops using their regular fleet.
 
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smithbs
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:20 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
Thanks for the explanation. But one more question, is the market even there for at least one large charter operator? I don't know, considering COVID changing things, but I still am wondering.


Omni Air is still around. I got to sample their 762ERs a couple times for military charter. I wouldn't be surprised if COVID has actually given them some extra work as well.

Worldair1 wrote:
Made them so mad when a Tower Air flight or Tradewinds L1011 showed up when they were expecting a WOA aircraft.


I would imagine so. All the troops could be celebrating the end of deployment and a Tower Air rolls up...hmmm, maybe we just extend a couple days.
 
PRAirbus
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:53 pm

Wasn't there a proposed new World Airways relaunching in Miami with 787s? I recall the website, press release, etc. it all fizzled obviously now I doubt they'll come back during this fluid COVID crisis.
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:54 am

smithbs wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
Thanks for the explanation. But one more question, is the market even there for at least one large charter operator? I don't know, considering COVID changing things, but I still am wondering.


Omni Air is still around. I got to sample their 762ERs a couple times for military charter. I wouldn't be surprised if COVID has actually given them some extra work as well.

Worldair1 wrote:
Made them so mad when a Tower Air flight or Tradewinds L1011 showed up when they were expecting a WOA aircraft.


I would imagine so. All the troops could be celebrating the end of deployment and a Tower Air rolls up...hmmm, maybe we just extend a couple days.

Omni and Atlas have the benefit of sharing the economies of scale from their cargo ops (Omni is part of ATSG, which is the bigger of the two Amazon 767 contractors).
 
iadbudd
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:59 am

Boeing757100 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
The major airlines really do it all now. Delta has a huge charter operation including military and sports teams.



No, they basically have the 11 757-200s solely for NBA purpose.




Those 11 DL planes are dedicated for the NBA but are also used for MLB and NHL charters. Kept pretty busy for the most part. Some MLB and NHL charters have to be supplemented by mainline aircraft occasionally.
 
Worldair1
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:47 am

One of the worst aircraft ever was their MD11 configured with 409Y. The complaints we got on that one, oh my they were bad. Seat pitch was like 27" or 26" I think. Correct me if anyone knows better. Even the military only choose it as a last resort, but the aircraft flew all the time anyway. I remember booking it for the mormon tabernacle choir once. They filled every seat.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:13 pm

Worldair1 wrote:
One of the worst aircraft ever was their MD11 configured with 409Y. The complaints we got on that one, oh my they were bad. Seat pitch was like 27" or 26" I think. Correct me if anyone knows better. Even the military only choose it as a last resort, but the aircraft flew all the time anyway. I remember booking it for the mormon tabernacle choir once. They filled every seat.



Oh my god, 26" sounds ATROCIOUS, but they gotta do what they gotta do.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:27 pm

Worldair1 wrote:
One of the worst aircraft ever was their MD11 configured with 409Y. The complaints we got on that one, oh my they were bad. Seat pitch was like 27" or 26" I think. Correct me if anyone knows better. Even the military only choose it as a last resort, but the aircraft flew all the time anyway. I remember booking it for the mormon tabernacle choir once. They filled every seat.

news flash: nearly ALL military charters (except those on full service airlines) are on planes like this...
 
Worldair1
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:38 pm

Maybe now, but back in the 80's and early 90's when I was in, flights were fairly comfortable. Flew to Japan, Europe on Flying Tiger, ATA and World Airways. Never had the "pleasure" of being on Tower. That's a whole different thread........
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:57 pm

Worldair1 wrote:
One of the worst aircraft ever was their MD11 configured with 409Y. The complaints we got on that one, oh my they were bad. Seat pitch was like 27" or 26" I think. Correct me if anyone knows better.


Pitch was at 30, 31 & 32 depending on where in the cabin. The MD-11 could seat as many as 410.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:14 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
Worldair1 wrote:
One of the worst aircraft ever was their MD11 configured with 409Y. The complaints we got on that one, oh my they were bad. Seat pitch was like 27" or 26" I think. Correct me if anyone knows better. Even the military only choose it as a last resort, but the aircraft flew all the time anyway. I remember booking it for the mormon tabernacle choir once. They filled every seat.

news flash: nearly ALL military charters (except those on full service airlines) are on planes like this...


Omni Air, the dominant twin-jet charter operator, is minimum 30" pitch, with 17.5" seats in Y. Their DC-10s were Y355. Even a maximum capacity B763 (exit door limit with 8 doors is 351) would not be that seat pitch.
 
skystar767
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:02 pm

The mistake world airways made was buying North American airline and kept the separate. World took over all the out standing loans from NAA. The new management of world was only looking for one thing make fast money and run the company in to the ground. Don’t blame the flight attendants and pilots.
 
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Re: What happened to World Airways?

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:34 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
I had a memory of my first flight when I was barely one, a Southwest flight to San Fransisco. I saw this sleek and elegant Trijet on the taxiway, with others of the same type on the apron near the cargo area. The first question I asked my mum was "Why does that airline fly so many of those airplanes?"

Seems dubious to me ( ref: https://www.livescience.com/63109-first ... ional.html and https://www.parents.com/toddlers-presch ... es-1-to-4/ )
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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smithbs
Posts: 485
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 6:09 pm

Re: What happened to World Airways?

Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:57 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
Worldair1 wrote:
One of the worst aircraft ever was their MD11 configured with 409Y. The complaints we got on that one, oh my they were bad. Seat pitch was like 27" or 26" I think. Correct me if anyone knows better. Even the military only choose it as a last resort, but the aircraft flew all the time anyway. I remember booking it for the mormon tabernacle choir once. They filled every seat.

news flash: nearly ALL military charters (except those on full service airlines) are on planes like this...


Omni Air, the dominant twin-jet charter operator, is minimum 30" pitch, with 17.5" seats in Y. Their DC-10s were Y355. Even a maximum capacity B763 (exit door limit with 8 doors is 351) would not be that seat pitch.


I don't recall Omni's 762ER Y seats to be too cramped, and I'm 6'2". Maybe I didn't notice it at the time.

But two things about military charters:
1. The passengers don't get a vote on their preference for seat comfort. They are told to get on the dang airplane and that's it.
2. The passenger demographic is overwhelmingly young men. They can put up with the discomfort.
 
airtran737
Posts: 3478
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

Re: What happened to World Airways?

Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:03 pm

skystar767 wrote:
The mistake world airways made was buying North American airline and kept the separate. World took over all the out standing loans from NAA. The new management of world was only looking for one thing make fast money and run the company in to the ground. Don’t blame the flight attendants and pilots.


Oh, the Teamsters certainly deserve some wrath from the second trip to chapter 11. Rob Binns who is now the CEO at Air Wisconsin deserves an extra round of applause for his poor leadership during the time after the purchase of North American. His inept management style quickly set forth an inescapable chain of events.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
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Boeing757100
Topic Author
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 10:09 pm

Re: What happened to World Airways?

Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:43 pm

wjcandee wrote:
I have fond memories of World as well. Sadly, they were sold to a private equity firm that was trying to put World, ATA and some others together and corner the market in military flying. It didn't work out so well, as the military wasn't going to just deal with one vendor, and if I recall some of the "team" members on military flying did some things that hurt them as well, or maybe that was ATA. Regardless, it was sad -- a storied company. If you haven't seen the CBS News piece from the Vietnam War era, on the last flight from DaNang, when World did a lot of military and humanitarian flights, it was something. Amazing to watch Ed Daly, a former boxer and the founder of World, standing on the rear airstairs with his pistol, trying to keep all the men and soldiers flooding aboard. Amazing flying by Captain Ken Healy, getting that 727 airborne off the taxiway with bullet holes in her, and totally calm on the radio talking to his brethren in the plane alongside. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36lLBbhnkZU There's a nice piece about that day, and about Captain Healy, here: http://www.onacrew.com/ONAbasicKenHealy.html

Hope you get the Geminijet for your birthday, and keep up the enthusiasm about aviation and airlines from the past. Their stories give us something to learn from! And never let any nasty posters on the forum get to you -- it used to bother me years ago, but now I just ignore them and feel sorry for them that they're so nasty and sad, and I cherish the many friends I have made here on a.net -- they're all that matters.



Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I agree, sometimes A.net is the only thing that keeps me from going crazy, especially during quarantine

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