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argentinevol98
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Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:39 pm

Seen as the A321P2F EIS is just about here and more and more 73Gs and 738s are taking to the skies as converted freighters would a 737-900ER freight conversion have a market? Would it be feasible?

Once the 757 feed-stock for freight conversion dries up the A321P2F will be the only game in town in its size class (volume in particular). Perhaps if DL and UA dump large numbers of 752s in response to the pandemic/economy similar to what AA did this date might be pushed back some. Even with that said the day where 757 feedstock dries out is inevitable and many of the older 757 freighters (especially many delivered as new-builds) will need replacing eventually (possibly starting within the next 10 years). Would this create demand for a 737-900ER freight conversion? I could see especially a lot of current 737 freight operators wanting to move up into the 757/A321 size class while keeping fleet commonality. Some 737 freight operators already fly 757s and could, in addition to the lower operating costs, benefit from increased commonality by replacing their 757 fleets. Some of the freight conversion companies specializing in 737s maybe incentivized extra by concerns that attractiveness of the A321P2F may hurt smaller narrow-body conversions as some operators may go for A320P2Fs over 738s to maintain commonality with the A321.

That all said, I could see some issues with a freight conversion on a 737-900ER. One I would guess is feed-stock. There are a lot of 739s but fewer than the A321s and, perhaps problematically, large numbers of them are locked up in the fleets of US legacy carriers (DL, UA, AS) which traditionally hold on to a/c in their fleets long enough that by the time they are retired they have cycle counts so high that they are not really worth it for conversion. The average age of the airframes is also a possible issue. The oldest 737-900ERs are 13 years old and the vast majority are a decent chunk younger than that. The oldest A321-200s are about 23 years old and while the vast majority are much younger due to demand shifting over the years, there are a lot of A321s that are old enough and depreciated enough to justify freight conversion now or in the next few years. That might be trouble for a 737-900ER freighter as fewer 739s will be depreciated and old enough to be cheaply scooped up second hand for conversion. The disparity could allow the A321 to build up market share early.

The other issue that I see as being possible, but since I am absolutely no expert in this I would like both pilots and engineers to comment on, is the hypothetical performance of a 739 freighter. 739s, even the ERs, have a reputation for being total runway hogs. My understanding is this is in part due to them being under-powered but also due to tail-strike concerns leading to longer take-off rolls. I may be mistaken on some of that, though. Would this be a particular issue for a freighter? Would it make it significantly less attractive than the A321?

Any replies are welcome and thanks in advance for any insight.
(If this has been discussed in detail on another thread I haven't found it)
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B757Forever
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:44 pm

The 737-900 is a bit tail-heavy as evidenced by the tail tips some operators have had while passengers were de-boarding. There would need to be precautions put in place to prevent tipping while loading and unloading.
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sdh9
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:08 pm

argentinevol98 wrote:
The other issue that I see as being possible, but since I am absolutely no expert in this I would like both pilots and engineers to comment on, is the hypothetical performance of a 739 freighter. 739s, even the ERs, have a reputation for being total runway hogs. My understanding is this is in part due to them being under-powered but also due to tail-strike concerns leading to longer take-off rolls. I may be mistaken on some of that, though. Would this be a particular issue for a freighter? Would it make it significantly less attractive than the A321?


The runway hog is because the airplane is geometrically limited, e.g. the speeds that it takes off and lands at are generated to ensure tail clearance. Luckily in the US you see a lot of long runways, and that's part of the reason why it is successful.

As for underpowered, that's hard to quantify. Underpowered in what way? Takeoffs are surely done at a reduced power setting, but MAX power is always available if need be. The 9ER suffers from a relatively limited single-engine go-around penalty in icing conditions, but that can be mitigated by paying Boeing some money to get some magic performance numbers. It's also not going to climb right up to the high flight levels initially, usually leveling off at FL340 or so, but is that really a big deal either?
 
T4thH
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:16 pm

First, it is too early for the B737-900 ER, they are still young and to expensive also not really liked. Seems a B737-800 of same age is more worth than a B737-900. We will see perhaps the first B737-900ER conversion around 2025; if we will see any....

A freighter need a little bit of power but the B737-900ER is in comparison to the A321 or the B737-800 under-powered. There is a reason, why the B757 is so liked as freighter conversion, as the B757-200 has really strong engines, the B757-200 is over-powered. This is bad for a passenger jet, as the fuel consumption will be high but nice for a freighter conversion.

As light parcel freighter, the A321 will be far superior, as heavy freighter the B757-200.

My opinion: No one will need a B737-900 ER conversion.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:26 pm

No, the feedstock simply isn't there.

Only some 505 were ever built, which is a minuscule amount for a modern narrowbody. The vast majority of those reside with just 4 airlines: Alaska Airlines, Delta, United and Lion Group. The three former aren't know for retiring narrowbodies at an early age with much life left, the latter only leaves trashed aircraft in its wake that aren't worth the conversion cost. That's 440 of the 505 already out of the equation. That doesn't leave enough feedstock to justify developing and certifying a conversion, especially considering how cheap and plentiful A321s will be.
 
anrec80
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:53 pm

T4thH wrote:
First, it is too early for the B737-900 ER, they are still young and to expensive also not really liked. Seems a B737-800 of same age is more worth than a B737-900. We will see perhaps the first B737-900ER conversion around 2025; if we will see any....


Hmm - what are the downsides of 739ER compared to the most common 738?
 
T4thH
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:03 pm

anrec80 wrote:
T4thH wrote:
First, it is too early for the B737-900 ER, they are still young and to expensive also not really liked. Seems a B737-800 of same age is more worth than a B737-900. We will see perhaps the first B737-900ER conversion around 2025; if we will see any....


Hmm - what are the downsides of 739ER compared to the most common 738?


The B737-800 is a nice plane, it is as good as the A320 ceo, so both are nice competitors. It is the same as with the B737-700 and the A319 ceo. The B373 is a little bit old fashion and outdated but cost per passenger for the airlines are comparable to the A320 family.

But the B737 family was never constructed to be elongated to the size of a B737-900 (we are talking about the NG family). The engines do not have enough power (or shall have more), the B737-900 is to long, so the rotation does not work any more accordingly, so they need longer runways, higher speed e.g. And they have to land with a higher speed. The range is to short; OK with the B737 900ER it was getting better, but still the B737-900 ER does not really work.
While the B737-700 is a good competitor to the A319 ceo, the B737-800 a good competitor to the A320 ceo; the A321 ceo (especially the A321-200 ceo) is far superior to the B737-900 ER.

And the airlines have had the same opinion. 1791 A321 ceo have been sold, but only 564 B737-900 (900, 900 ER and BBJ) versions.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:47 am

I think the 737-900ER might need to have not only a tail stand Pogo for loading safety put the main deck cargo Loading door aft of the wing to put freight in the 1st loading position just aft of the cockpit, Other than that? I see no problems with the Idea
 
Okcflyer
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:00 am

Both the 800 and 900 fit between the A320 and A321 size. The 800 and 900 are very close in size, less than 9 feet length difference if memory recalls. In fact the 900 is as much longer over the 800 as the 800 is over the A320. In regular pax seating, the 800 is 2-3 rows more than A320. And 900 is 2-3 rows mover 800.

Limited business case considering the 800 is very close in size and has almost 10X the feed stock.

A big reason the 900 hasn’t sold as well as 321 is that it’s just not that much bigger than the 800. They’re too similar.

Meanwhile, there is a huge gap between the A320
And A321 in size.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:47 am

Hardly any at all. The -900ER has the major issue of liquidity...airlines that bought them, except for JT and sister airlines, and that small GECAS order...intend to operate them for 25-30 years, and about 70 percent of the worldwide B739(ER) fleet is with DL, UA, and AS (among the US stock, only DL has engaged in any sale-leaseback transactions with its B739(ER) fleet; UA and AS own or finance all of their B739(ER) frames). Almost all of the remaining fleet is JT (and related), and they're a high cycle airline as one needs air for short hops in the island country of Indonesia.

BBJs aside...were there only 5 original customers for the B739(ER): AS (90), DL (32), JT (GP), CO (24), and GECAS (6N)?
 
dstblj52
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:26 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Hardly any at all. The -900ER has the major issue of liquidity...airlines that bought them, except for JT and sister airlines, and that small GECAS order...intend to operate them for 25-30 years, and about 70 percent of the worldwide B739(ER) fleet is with DL, UA, and AS (among the US stock, only DL has engaged in any sale-leaseback transactions with its B739(ER) fleet; UA and AS own or finance all of their B739(ER) frames). Almost all of the remaining fleet is JT (and related), and they're a high cycle airline as one needs air for short hops in the island country of Indonesia.

BBJs aside...were there only 5 original customers for the B739(ER): AS (90), DL (32), JT (GP), CO (24), and GECAS (6N)?

And knowing delta it likely has buy back clauses at the end of those leases
 
argentinevol98
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:40 pm

Thanks to everyone that has replied so far. It sounds like my guess that feed-stock could be an issue with such a high % of frames locked up in the fleets of a few operators has largely been corroborated. I also very much appreciate the technical comments about runway consumption and possible additional issues such as balancing that could lead to some tail-tipping on loading if done wrong.

Just out of additional curiosity can anyone ball-park the cost of an STC for a freight conversion like this? The cargo door exists and is certified and both 73G and 738 freighters are certified and flying safely so I can't imagine it would be very expensive (probably too expensive to justify with the limited feed-stock available though). Thanks.
"He sospechado alguna vez que la única cosa sin misterio es la felicidad, porque se justifica por sí sola"-Jorge Luis Borges
 
2175301
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:39 pm

The existing 737-800 freighter conversion programs are focused on the right frame to convert in the 737 larger models. There is no advantage that a 737-900 really has over the 737-800, even if there was a lot more feedstock.

Have a great day,
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:42 pm

2175301 wrote:
The existing 737-800 freighter conversion programs are focused on the right frame to convert in the 737 larger models. There is no advantage that a 737-900 really has over the 737-800, even if there was a lot more feedstock.

Have a great day,


Also, Boeing sold 5,012 civilian 73H frames. Plenty of feed-stock for a freighter conversion.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:21 pm

whether or not they make the 737-900ER a freighter? Is not a matter of IF? It's a matter of when.. Between the Legacy carriers ALONE in the USA (AA.DL AK,UA) there are 864 737-800's and-900's (not including the -9's UA has in stock or on order) That in itself is Damn sizeable feed stock for any freight operation now or to come in he USA. I haven't counted any other carriers and there are quite a few that I haven't counted because I just didn't think it was a necessity to prove my point.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:45 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
whether or not they make the 737-900ER a freighter? Is not a matter of IF? It's a matter of when.. Between the Legacy carriers ALONE in the USA (AA.DL AK,UA) there are 864 737-800's and-900's (not including the -9's UA has in stock or on order) That in itself is Damn sizeable feed stock for any freight operation now or to come in he USA. I haven't counted any other carriers and there are quite a few that I haven't counted because I just didn't think it was a necessity to prove my point.

I didn't add Southwest and Sun Country, and they brought the totals of 800's and 900's up to 1103 in the US alone. Far more than will ever be converted to freighters.
There are and will be quite a few A321's on order and to come however? If the A321 is built framewise to the A320? The conversion to freighter will be Extensive as the floor beams and Joist hangers would need extreme rework to even support freight or Igloo freight containers. Instead of an I beam type floor Joist they look like an upside down Joist with the J inverted. Unlike the Boeing floor beams that resemble an I-beam. they could be replaced in a good amount of time in my opinion though I doubt Airbus would even Plan or want to look that far down the road as they might well come late to the party with a purpose Built A321 Freighter. But ? Since they Haven't come with very many freighter options on their models up to NOW? I might doubt they will do it in the future.. Though? I could be wrong.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:55 pm

2175301 wrote:
The existing 737-800 freighter conversion programs are focused on the right frame to convert in the 737 larger models. There is no advantage that a 737-900 really has over the 737-800, even if there was a lot more feedstock.

Have a great day,


Well, except for the increase in volume in the -900.

Look at the split in A320P2F and A321P2F orders, for many users that bulk out, a -900ER freighter has distinct advantages over an -800
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VSMUT
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:14 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
whether or not they make the 737-900ER a freighter? Is not a matter of IF? It's a matter of when.. Between the Legacy carriers ALONE in the USA (AA.DL AK,UA) there are 864 737-800's and-900's (not including the -9's UA has in stock or on order) That in itself is Damn sizeable feed stock for any freight operation now or to come in he USA. I haven't counted any other carriers and there are quite a few that I haven't counted because I just didn't think it was a necessity to prove my point.


Developing and certifying a 737-900ER P2F conversion carries a whole set of additional costs. You can't just carry over one of the conversions from the -800 or -700, so you can't generalize the potential feedstock to the combined 737-800 and -900 fleets. Your impressive 864 (or 1100) quickly becomes a measly 345. And lets face it, those 3 airlines don't have a reputation for phasing aircraft out with much life left, a prerequisite for applying a costly cargo conversion.
 
dstblj52
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:08 am

strfyr51 wrote:
whether or not they make the 737-900ER a freighter? Is not a matter of IF? It's a matter of when.. Between the Legacy carriers ALONE in the USA (AA.DL AK,UA) there are 864 737-800's and-900's (not including the -9's UA has in stock or on order) That in itself is Damn sizeable feed stock for any freight operation now or to come in he USA. I haven't counted any other carriers and there are quite a few that I haven't counted because I just didn't think it was a necessity to prove my point.

And all of those airlines have a reputation for flying the entire economic life of their aircraft before retiring them, no one is going to bother converting an aircraft with the number of hours and cycles all the aircraft operated by those four airlines retire them with. The 738, however, has a much larger number of customers and much heavier lessor penetration which will result in some 15-20-year-old aircraft become available which make much better targets for conversions then the 25-30 year 739er's that are going to come available.
 
workhorse
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:36 am

Spacepope wrote:
2175301 wrote:
The existing 737-800 freighter conversion programs are focused on the right frame to convert in the 737 larger models. There is no advantage that a 737-900 really has over the 737-800, even if there was a lot more feedstock.

Have a great day,


Well, except for the increase in volume in the -900.


I doubt you could take advantage of the - 900's increased volume. It already has a very poor take off performance with passengers, it would be much worse with any cargo other then ping pong balls.
 
pythoniels
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:42 am

So if the 739(ER) is already bad performing on take-offs/landings, I guess we'll never see a 737-MAX10 P2F conversion then, although Boeing is making adjustments to increase landing gear height.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:28 pm

workhorse wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
2175301 wrote:
The existing 737-800 freighter conversion programs are focused on the right frame to convert in the 737 larger models. There is no advantage that a 737-900 really has over the 737-800, even if there was a lot more feedstock.

Have a great day,


Well, except for the increase in volume in the -900.


I doubt you could take advantage of the - 900's increased volume. It already has a very poor take off performance with passengers, it would be much worse with any cargo other then ping pong balls.


Weight is weight, whether it be payload, interior furnishings or fuel. A full bus, bags, and gas for a 4 hour flight vs what freight can be dragged on a 1.5 hour regional e-commerce run? At the same MTOW, physics doesn’t care whether the back is loaded with meat or Amazon bubble packs.
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MIflyer12
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:42 pm

pythoniels wrote:
So if the 739(ER) is already bad performing on take-offs/landings, I guess we'll never see a 737-MAX10 P2F conversion then, although Boeing is making adjustments to increase landing gear height.


You're at least 15 years too early to be worrying about MAX 10 P2F. I mean, FedEx is happy flying early-build DC-10s and early 757s.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:09 pm

With emissions rules tightening, converting airliners to freighters in the future might not be as possible as in the past.
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brindabella
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:23 pm

argentinevol98 wrote:
Thanks to everyone that has replied so far. It sounds like my guess that feed-stock could be an issue with such a high % of frames locked up in the fleets of a few operators has largely been corroborated. I also very much appreciate the technical comments about runway consumption and possible additional issues such as balancing that could lead to some tail-tipping on loading if done wrong.

Just out of additional curiosity can anyone ball-park the cost of an STC for a freight conversion like this? The cargo door exists and is certified and both 73G and 738 freighters are certified and flying safely so I can't imagine it would be very expensive (probably too expensive to justify with the limited feed-stock available though). Thanks.


Good post.

However:

[list=] despite the denigration here on a.net, the actual operators hang onto them like grim death.

Freighters take-off at MAX TOW 24/7.

exact opposite of the -900 strengths.



[/list]

cheers
Billy
 
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Polot
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:26 pm

brindabella wrote:
Freighters take-off at MAX TOW 24/7.

That very much depends on what type of operator your are talking about. Parcel carriers are frequently no where near max TOW- they typically run out of space before weight.

General cargo carriers would have little interest in a 739ERp2f but at the same time they would have little interest in the A321p2f as well.
 
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:42 pm

B757Forever wrote:
The 737-900 is a bit tail-heavy as evidenced by the tail tips some operators have had while passengers were de-boarding. There would need to be precautions put in place to prevent tipping while loading and unloading.


Built in tail-stand?...
 
workhorse
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:58 pm

Spacepope wrote:
workhorse wrote:
Spacepope wrote:

Well, except for the increase in volume in the -900.


I doubt you could take advantage of the - 900's increased volume. It already has a very poor take off performance with passengers, it would be much worse with any cargo other then ping pong balls.


Weight is weight, whether it be payload, interior furnishings or fuel. A full bus, bags, and gas for a 4 hour flight vs what freight can be dragged on a 1.5 hour regional e-commerce run? At the same MTOW, physics doesn’t care whether the back is loaded with meat or Amazon bubble packs.


That's the point, even Amazon - like freight is denser than pax. If you have less fuel (1.5 hour regional e-commerce run) that may help but it leaves you with a very niche freighter, based on an already niche airliner. Not worth the expenses of designing and certifying a conversion program. The 738 freighter, on the other hand, will do fine.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:02 pm

Who would order it though? FX, UPS, and other operators, though having 25+ year old 757s, are not looking to replace them anytime soon, though I may be wrong.
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strfyr51
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:28 pm

[quote="VSMUT"][quote="strfyr51"]whether or not they make the 737-900ER a freighter? Is not a matter of IF? It's a matter of when.. Between the Legacy carriers ALONE in the USA (AA.DL AK,UA) there are 864 t's a particular point of Pride at United
Developing and certifying a 737-900ER P2F conversion carries a whole set of additional costs. You can't just carry over one of the conversions from the -800 or -700, so you can't generalize the potential feedstock to the combined 737-800 and -900 fleets. Your impressive 864 (or 1100) quickly becomes a measly 345. And lets face it, those 3 airlines don't have a reputation for Looking back? UPS bought nay of our DC8-71's, Fedex bought many of our DC10-10's and Both bought many of our 727-122's and -222's
we don't sell "schlump" airplanes at all. and no matter what you think? When the 737-900's time comes? We'll sell hem as well! I can't speak for the other carriers though I'd think they might do just as well. WN tends to rack up a LOT of cycles on their airplanes. It might hurt their eventual value a tad but they'll still be viable feed stock still.
I am interested to see what the A321pf might come to be though. It will be interesting to see if it catches on in the USA.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:43 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
Who would order it though? FX, UPS, and other operators, though having 25+ year old 757s, are not looking to replace them anytime soon, though I may be wrong.

5X and FX may not be looking to replace them soon, but a narrowbody option is going to be needed within the next 10 years not only to expand, never mind replace, the 757s. They’re running fleets a little harder than even 5 years ago. It isn’t the PM out and backs that it once was.

The 757s are perfect for smaller gateways and running from regional hubs to gateways. But the market isn’t full of conversion feedstock anymore. There will be some coming online soon with retirements, but that only buys a few more years. Eventually something is going to be needed. Right now it is between the A321 and 738. Personally I think the A321 is going to win out and we’re going to see them in integrators fleets within 5 years, but it’s the first inning of a long ball game.
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argentinevol98
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:03 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
The 757s are perfect for smaller gateways and running from regional hubs to gateways. But the market isn’t full of conversion feedstock anymore. There will be some coming online soon with retirements, but that only buys a few more years. Eventually something is going to be needed. Right now it is between the A321 and 738. Personally I think the A321 is going to win out and we’re going to see them in integrators fleets within 5 years, but it’s the first inning of a long ball game.


I generally agree with the sentiment. I think the A321s make a lot of sense for the package integrators after the 757 feed-stock dries up. The volume is a key advantage over other options (big part of the reason I asked about a 739 conversion). I could especially see it in the fleets of 5X and FX when the 757 replacement cycle starts (though, admittedly, that is not for a while). That said, I do see an advantage for the 738s in that many carriers are already flying 737 freighters (I'm thinking of the 733/734). The transition costs (flight crew, maintenance, etc.) would be a lot lower going from 737 classics to NGs than it would be when adding a new type entirely such as the A320 family. That could help the 738s business case with those operators.
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gaystudpilot
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:47 pm

T4thH wrote:
First, it is too early for the B737-900 ER, they are still young and to expensive also not really liked.


By whom?
 
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Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:30 pm

sdh9 wrote:
[...]As for underpowered, that's hard to quantify.[...]


Thrust-to-weight ratio is a fairly useful indicator. Unfortunately, it is very low for all of the longer 737 derivates. Those castrated Boeing versions of the CFM56/LEAP enginges just can`t deliver what their full-size siblings can.
 
T4thH
Posts: 1260
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:20 am

gaystudpilot wrote:
T4thH wrote:
First, it is too early for the B737-900 ER, they are still young and to expensive also not really liked.


By whom?

By lessors and airlines. The B737-900 has not sold well and preferential only to few big airlines, some big US airlines and Lion Air. So not many airlines have bought them. The value and leasing rate for a B737-900 is regular lower than for a B737-800 of same age.

https://web.archive.org/web/20181110040630/http://www.aircraftvaluenews.com/two-early-build-b737-900ers-sold-between-lessors/
Despite the large size of the -900ER, these values and lease rentals are actually below the values and rentals cited for a similar vintage B737-800 equipped with similar engines and winglets. Whereas there is a clear premium applied to the A321 compared to the A320, the reverse is the case for the -900ER. the -900ER may have originally cost more to buy than the -800 but the limited operator base popularity of the -900ER has proved a hindrance to strong residual values.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 5497
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Feasibility of a 737-900ER freighter

Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:51 am

jetblueguy22 wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
Who would order it though? FX, UPS, and other operators, though having 25+ year old 757s, are not looking to replace them anytime soon, though I may be wrong.

5X and FX may not be looking to replace them soon, but a narrowbody option is going to be needed within the next 10 years not only to expand, never mind replace, the 757s. They’re running fleets a little harder than even 5 years ago. It isn’t the PM out and backs that it once was.


FedEx, UPS, DHL and Amazon also set requirements for the aircraft they want subcontractors to operate. The methods differ, but FedEx did demand that it's European contractors start getting the 737-400 and 737-800 if they wanted to have a chance of bidding for a share of the pie. UPS and Amazon made similar requests for larger aircraft, but I don't think they specified any particular type. See West Atlantic, Swift Air, ASL, Atran/Cargologic and Cargoair who all started building and expanding their 737-400 and -800 fleets from 2017 onwards.

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