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CaptCoolHand
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:24 pm

Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:10 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
Has anyone considered that B6 is doing this to prod consolidation? Nothing works better to push a much larger competitor to make you disappear than poking them with a stick.


Or it's a middle finger to UA and does nothing to create a synergy with UA as it puts up another wall within the DOT for competition.

If this is a "merger play" I'd say it conforms much more with Alaska. Bring East and West together and get a much stronger network. Big IF!

UA isn't even on the table.

JMO
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:19 pm

B6’s “middle finger” is towards Delta. They smell Delta’s blood in the NY water.
 
CaptCoolHand
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:21 pm

Agree, Could be that as well. I can't remember where I read the "bug" comment now, but it seems like JB is more of the alligator in the Sewark now :p
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:26 pm

CaptCoolHand wrote:
Agree, Could be that as well. I can't remember where I read the "bug" comment now, but it seems like JB is more of the alligator in the Sewark now :p


Agreed. And I think you could be right about the ultimate possibility of AS somewhere in the picture for B6.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:05 pm

Anyone know why these flights haven’t been given to 3rd party sites yet? I can only find them for sale on JetBlue.com
 
TonyClifton
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 3:19 pm

Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:09 pm

Can’t help but feel much of this is a final smash against the ex Virgin now Alaskan transcon flying.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:29 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:

UA is certainly going to win on frequency on EWR-SFO/LAX. It will be interesting to see how many flights B6 runs on a weekday, and what they get for average fares for those routes.

How many daily flights is UA operating on those routes for July? It is certainly not pre-Covid levels. B6 says upto 2x and 3x daily for SFO and LAX.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:44 pm

alfa164 wrote:
good2go wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
Conspicuously, they did not add JFK-ATL.

JFK-ATL already exists. And has continued during COVID.


Sorry; I meant EWR-ATL

Why will B6 add EWR-ATL? DL is not big at EWR and the B6 strategy is to fight DL at JFK, not EWR.
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:51 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
good2go wrote:
JFK-ATL already exists. And has continued during COVID.


Sorry; I meant EWR-ATL

Why will B6 add EWR-ATL? DL is not big at EWR and the B6 strategy is to fight DL at JFK, not EWR.


...up till now. Clearly, B6 smells Delta’s blood in the New York area waters.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:51 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
good2go wrote:
JFK-ATL already exists. And has continued during COVID.


Sorry; I meant EWR-ATL

Why will B6 add EWR-ATL? DL is not big at EWR and the B6 strategy is to fight DL at JFK, not EWR.


I think EWR-ATL would be a pretty solid add. DL is already running 7x daily flights on EWR-ATL by August. NK went 2x daily. The market is there.
 
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klm617
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:03 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
alfa164 wrote:

Sorry; I meant EWR-ATL

Why will B6 add EWR-ATL? DL is not big at EWR and the B6 strategy is to fight DL at JFK, not EWR.


I think EWR-ATL would be a pretty solid add. DL is already running 7x daily flights on EWR-ATL by August. NK went 2x daily. The market is there.


IDK EWR-ATL looks pretty crowded to me. Seems like that would be capacity dumping more than anything else just to trash everybody's yields. I am sure UA is on ATL-EWR as well.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
AMALH747430
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:12 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
dfwking wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jetblue-just-flouted-airline-industry-223016872.html

I agree with this article’s bottom line. Kirby is an aggressive guy. He’ll respond to this and when he does B6 will have to evaluate whether EWR is worth it. B6 may not be so keen on this fight if UA decides to ramp up SFO/LAX - BOS. This is a pretty easy move for B6 right now and it will be easy to back away from too if it doesn’t work.

Kirby isn’t Jeff Smisek and he isn’t Gerard Arpey. He’ll react.


How realistic is it that this spurs UA to enter JFK again?

I'm not familiar with all the slot / gate rules and crew arrangements, but going back into JFK and launching SFO/LAX/LAS/LHR would seem to be a great opportunity for UA. They could round out their NYC presence and hit back at B6 at the same time...



That would be a great move.

Considering the size of United, They would need five daily to LAX, five daily to SFO, 2 daily to LAS and 2 daily to LHR.

14 daily flights. Likely 3 gates if they were a LCC...but more like 4 if you are a legacy.

Two widebodies dedicated to LHR.

Two LHR slots from somewhere.

New hire crew at JFK.

Need a lounge for this right? New lounge at JFK.

That is a lot of capital for an airline that’s burning a lot of money and parking a lot of planes.


And we know they were not making money at JFK before.


B6 is in a different spot. They already have five gates at Newark that they acquired for a more gradual expansion. The crew is there. There are plenty of planes that are not getting retired sitting around waiting for something to do. They have brand recognition in each of these markets.


If UA could acquire the real estate it would be a good strategic move. I think they’re just fine with their current operation (again they have the only single airport long haul/short haul hub in the NYC area) but with only 3 full service legacy airlines left, that JFK presence would be nice. CO had about the same setup that UA has now (massive EWR presence and hub service to LGA) but the market is now less fragmented and all 3 airlines need some presence at all three airports in my opinion. I think you have the service levels and destinations about right.

As for my earlier post, I was simply clapping back at the notion that UA at EWR would end up like AA at JFK. B6 ate AAs lunch at JFK. There are a lot of posts on this thread and others that constantly talk of UA being at a disadvantage in the NYC market. I do not think that is the case. CO/UA have become NYC’s largest carrier due to their EWR hub. This will be a bigger fight for B6 than taking on AA in the domestic and Caribbean markets from JFK. Add to that, DL has indicated that they still plan on defending their turf and growing at BOS. B6 is going to have to fight a 2 front war here with the two stronger legacies.

I still agree with the Yahoo Finance article I posted. I think B6 sees the opportunity to try something that will be very easy to undo if it gets too hot in the proverbial kitchen.
Last edited by AMALH747430 on Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
AMALH747430
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:13 pm

Duplicate post. My apologies. My iphone has been acting up this morning. Mods please delete.

If UA could acquire the real estate it would be a good strategic move. I think they’re just fine with their current operation (again they have the only single airport long haul/short haul hub in the NYC area) but with only 3 full service legacy airlines left, that JFK presence would be nice. CO had about the same setup that UA has now (massive EWR presence and hub service to LGA) but the market is now less fragmented and all 3 airlines need some presence at all three airports in my opinion. I think you have the service levels and destinations about right.

As for my earlier post, I was simply clapping back at the notion that UA at EWR would end up like AA at JFK. B6 ate AAs lunch at JFK. There are a lot of posts on this thread and others that constantly talk of UA being at a disadvantage in the NYC market. I do not think that is the case. CO/UA have become NYC’s largest carrier due to their EWR hub. This will be a bigger fight for B6 than taking on AA in the domestic and Caribbean markets from JFK. Add to that, DL has indicated that they still plan on defending their turf and growing at BOS. B6 is going to have to fight a 2 front war here with the two stronger legacies.

I still agree with the Yahoo Finance article I posted. I think B6 sees the opportunity to try something that will be very easy to undo if it gets too hot in the proverbial kitchen.

AMALH747430 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
dfwking wrote:

How realistic is it that this spurs UA to enter JFK again?

I'm not familiar with all the slot / gate rules and crew arrangements, but going back into JFK and launching SFO/LAX/LAS/LHR would seem to be a great opportunity for UA. They could round out their NYC presence and hit back at B6 at the same time...



That would be a great move.

Considering the size of United, They would need five daily to LAX, five daily to SFO, 2 daily to LAS and 2 daily to LHR.

14 daily flights. Likely 3 gates if they were a LCC...but more like 4 if you are a legacy.

Two widebodies dedicated to LHR.

Two LHR slots from somewhere.

New hire crew at JFK.

Need a lounge for this right? New lounge at JFK.

That is a lot of capital for an airline that’s burning a lot of money and parking a lot of planes.


And we know they were not making money at JFK before.


B6 is in a different spot. They already have five gates at Newark that they acquired for a more gradual expansion. The crew is there. There are plenty of planes that are not getting retired sitting around waiting for something to do. They have brand recognition in each of these markets.
 
Brianpr3
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:34 pm

Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:34 pm

For the rsw expansions cle, phl and pvd where are the crews based out of for cle I'm gonna guess Boston? And pvd and phl makes me want to :?:
Brian
 
N757ST
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:59 pm

Brianpr3 wrote:
For the rsw expansions cle, phl and pvd where are the crews based out of for cle I'm gonna guess Boston? And pvd and phl makes me want to :?:


All 4 east coast bases will cycle thorough those flights. Occasionally a LAX/LGB crew might even operate them.
 
tphuang
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:03 pm

TonyClifton wrote:
Can’t help but feel much of this is a final smash against the ex Virgin now Alaskan transcon flying.

Yes, I think part of B6 thinking has to be that AS will drop a good chunk of the Cali transcons.

Nicknuzzii wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
alfa164 wrote:

Sorry; I meant EWR-ATL

Why will B6 add EWR-ATL? DL is not big at EWR and the B6 strategy is to fight DL at JFK, not EWR.


I think EWR-ATL would be a pretty solid add. DL is already running 7x daily flights on EWR-ATL by August. NK went 2x daily. The market is there.


They are not adding EWR-ATL anytime soon. There are too many lower hanging fruits for them to go for such a ambitious route. Here are good criteria for what JetBlue will pick to operate out of EWR:
- Stuff that they do well out of JFK
- Has leisure component (even on routes that have a lot of coprorate demand)
- No other strong non-ULCC competition.
The final criteria would eliminate stuff like EWR-ATL/DFW/DTW/MSP/CLT/SEA/DEN/IAH. That's why you see them add a lot of routes with strong WN presence on the other hand.

Brianpr3 wrote:
For the rsw expansions cle, phl and pvd where are the crews based out of for cle I'm gonna guess Boston? And pvd and phl makes me want to :?:

PVD seems more sustainable. It would make sense for them to continue building up their presence in New England area. PHL and CLE are quite ambitious. Not sure how long those will last.

millionsofmiles wrote:
B6’s “middle finger” is towards Delta. They smell Delta’s blood in the NY water.

Right, this is much more of a challenge to DL than just JFK-DTW/MSP. JetBlue is looking to have relevance as more than just a leisure carrier in NYC. That's what this is all about. DL has been very slow adding stuff back to NYC.

A JetBlue with at least 2x daily presence to all major markets out of JFK plus strong transcon, Latin America network and TATL flights is going to be much harder to deal with than AA's weak presence the past couple of years.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5226
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:16 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
Duplicate post. My apologies. My iphone has been acting up this morning. Mods please delete.

If UA could acquire the real estate it would be a good strategic move. I think they’re just fine with their current operation (again they have the only single airport long haul/short haul hub in the NYC area) but with only 3 full service legacy airlines left, that JFK presence would be nice. CO had about the same setup that UA has now (massive EWR presence and hub service to LGA) but the market is now less fragmented and all 3 airlines need some presence at all three airports in my opinion. I think you have the service levels and destinations about right.

As for my earlier post, I was simply clapping back at the notion that UA at EWR would end up like AA at JFK. B6 ate AAs lunch at JFK. There are a lot of posts on this thread and others that constantly talk of UA being at a disadvantage in the NYC market. I do not think that is the case. CO/UA have become NYC’s largest carrier due to their EWR hub. This will be a bigger fight for B6 than taking on AA in the domestic and Caribbean markets from JFK. Add to that, DL has indicated that they still plan on defending their turf and growing at BOS. B6 is going to have to fight a 2 front war here with the two stronger legacies.

I still agree with the Yahoo Finance article I posted. I think B6 sees the opportunity to try something that will be very easy to undo if it gets too hot in the proverbial kitchen.

Nobody in their right mind would think UA at EWR would end up like AA at JFK. B6 simply won't have enough gates at EWR to mount such a challenge. I think they can co-exist pretty nicely with both running a profitable operation, but UA will also have to up their game here For too long, people on NJ side had no choice other than UA. A lot of people on jersey side would consider switching their flying needs to B6 or at least splitting between the two.

The skift article misses the point about DL. There is no better time than now for LCCs to take jabs at legacies. This is about B6 taking the fight to JFK rather than playing defensive at BOS. Corporate travel is non-existent in NE at the moment. That's why they made these moves and why DL has cut pretty much every non-hub market out of BOS for several months now. DL will be busy protecting its turf at JFK/LGA before adding back BOS stuff.

I think UA messed up here. Anyone looking at the situation could've seen that B6's obvious move was build up EWR and JFK. They should've settled on some kind of partnership with B6 offering domestic interline and pathway to star alliance along with slots at LGA/DCA in exchange for some slots at JFK and no further incursion into EWR. And now they have to deal with a more crowded EWR.
 
airzona11
Posts: 1756
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:34 pm

tphuang wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:
Duplicate post. My apologies. My iphone has been acting up this morning. Mods please delete.

If UA could acquire the real estate it would be a good strategic move. I think they’re just fine with their current operation (again they have the only single airport long haul/short haul hub in the NYC area) but with only 3 full service legacy airlines left, that JFK presence would be nice. CO had about the same setup that UA has now (massive EWR presence and hub service to LGA) but the market is now less fragmented and all 3 airlines need some presence at all three airports in my opinion. I think you have the service levels and destinations about right.

As for my earlier post, I was simply clapping back at the notion that UA at EWR would end up like AA at JFK. B6 ate AAs lunch at JFK. There are a lot of posts on this thread and others that constantly talk of UA being at a disadvantage in the NYC market. I do not think that is the case. CO/UA have become NYC’s largest carrier due to their EWR hub. This will be a bigger fight for B6 than taking on AA in the domestic and Caribbean markets from JFK. Add to that, DL has indicated that they still plan on defending their turf and growing at BOS. B6 is going to have to fight a 2 front war here with the two stronger legacies.

I still agree with the Yahoo Finance article I posted. I think B6 sees the opportunity to try something that will be very easy to undo if it gets too hot in the proverbial kitchen.

Nobody in their right mind would think UA at EWR would end up like AA at JFK. B6 simply won't have enough gates at EWR to mount such a challenge. I think they can co-exist pretty nicely with both running a profitable operation, but UA will also have to up their game here For too long, people on NJ side had no choice other than UA. A lot of people on jersey side would consider switching their flying needs to B6 or at least splitting between the two.

The skift article misses the point about DL. There is no better time than now for LCCs to take jabs at legacies. This is about B6 taking the fight to JFK rather than playing defensive at BOS. Corporate travel is non-existent in NE at the moment. That's why they made these moves and why DL has cut pretty much every non-hub market out of BOS for several months now. DL will be busy protecting its turf at JFK/LGA before adding back BOS stuff.

I think UA messed up here. Anyone looking at the situation could've seen that B6's obvious move was build up EWR and JFK. They should've settled on some kind of partnership with B6 offering domestic interline and pathway to star alliance along with slots at LGA/DCA in exchange for some slots at JFK and no further incursion into EWR. And now they have to deal with a more crowded EWR.


Great discussion points. The more nimble airlines will pounce on where there is current demand and shift fleet accordingly. Additionally, think of all the flyers that had enough travel to put their loyalty to one airline (fringe gold and silver status). Now with travel frequency for work and personal greatly reduced, attaining status is negligible meaning more passengers up for grabs. As consumers we want this to spur competition bc with all the reduced flying, need to keep pricing pressure.
 
jordanh
Posts: 325
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:56 pm

Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:43 pm

tphuang wrote:
They are not adding EWR-ATL anytime soon. There are too many lower hanging fruits for them to go for such a ambitious route. Here are good criteria for what JetBlue will pick to operate out of EWR:
- Stuff that they do well out of JFK


So now you are telling us that JetBlue does not do well on the JFK-ATL flights.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1174
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:12 pm

So theoretically how big can B6 grow to in EWR? I can definitely see possibly UA subleasing their T1 gates to B6 to make a quick penny. (UA has confirmed they have gate and lounge space in T1)
 
ShinyAndChrome
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:53 am

Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:12 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
So theoretically how big can B6 grow to in EWR? I can definitely see possibly UA subleasing their T1 gates to B6 to make a quick penny. (UA has confirmed they have gate and lounge space in T1)


I know Kirby's been the most pessimistic person in the US business since this started, but I don't see them being that desperate just yet.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5226
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:39 pm

jordanh wrote:
tphuang wrote:
They are not adding EWR-ATL anytime soon. There are too many lower hanging fruits for them to go for such a ambitious route. Here are good criteria for what JetBlue will pick to operate out of EWR:
- Stuff that they do well out of JFK


So now you are telling us that JetBlue does not do well on the JFK-ATL flights.

It's definitely above system average in performance but no reason to try such a risky move from ewr this early. Everything else they fly to ATL bleed money.
 
evank516
Posts: 2139
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:09 pm

tphuang wrote:

evank516 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
JFK is, and will continue to be, a high priority for DL. DL's not about to give up on their plan to be NYC's preferred carrier because of this temporary demand slump. They're investing billions into their LGA terminal, already invested a significant chunk of change into their JFK terminal not all that long ago, and are going to be keeping JFK around as their primary transatlantic gateway.

As for response, though, I'm not sure how aggressive they'll be. I wouldn't be surprised to see mostly A220s on JFK-MSP/DTW, but I'd guess these routes carry a higher percentage of connecting traffic for DL than O&D, and largely flows that B6 can't replicate with their network at that.


JFK-MSP (pre-COVID) was a mix of A220s and 717s as it is, so I'm assuming that the 717s will phase out and move to A220s almost entirely, with the odd A319 or A320 maybe thrown in too. JFK-DTW was heavily RJ pre-COVID, and in recent years lacked year-round mainline. It was only this year that they plugged in an A220 AND a 717 into JFK-DTW with about 3 or 4 other CR9 options, which as I said many times before, is very, very odd for DL to do on a hub to hub route. I would hope to see less CR9s and more A220s on JFK-DTW.

I don't think A220s would be the kind of pressure that would scare off B6. After all, B6 have been co-existing pretty well with DL on JFK-ATL. Very profitable route for them. I don't know what JetBlue's plans are with their own A220s. But if DL ends up running A220-100 against B6 running A220-300 on the same route, it will be a huge problem for DL. It will be 30 more seat and about the same overall operating cost (lower fuel cost, but higher staffing cost all the way around)


DL will have the 220-300 as well.

And yes, both DL and B6 have been coexisting on JFK-ATL for some time, but DL didn't run CR9s on JFK-ATL either. It was usually a mix of 738s, 739s, A320s, 757s, and the 777 too. My point is DL can't keep 4-5 CR9s and the random A220/717 on JFK-DTW if B6 is running A320s.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5226
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:17 am

Just taking a look at late July schedule again and it looks like JetBlue has made their final adjustments. Interesting stuff in that I'm seeing a lot of major JFK routes getting additional flights for that time. They must be seeing some solid booking coming in lately. I think NYC's pentup demand is finally coming out. That should bode well for August schedule also. At this pace, they are going to be at probably close to 100 flights on peak days out of JFK in late July.

Some places I'm seeing more flights are. These are all increased ones I can see.
STI - 6x daily
SDQ - 5x daily
SJU - 4x daily
PAP - 2x daily
KIN - 2x daily
POS - 1x daily
LAX - 6x daily
SFO - 4x daily
ATL - 2x daily
MCO - 6x daily
FLL - 5x daily

The VFR routes to PR/DR are really popular, but even PAP/KIN are back up a little bit. It still seems like they are not oferring enough capacity here, because I'm seeing most of the non-middle seat sold out with well over a month out. Looks like they can't bring these flights back fast enough. Based on the fares I'm seeing, they will make a lot of money on these even with 60% LF. It's too bad DL figured it out and are restarting those routes in Aug. Aside from that, more capacity to Florida and mint also. ATL looks to be doing great. ORD is still not showing up.

Out of Boston, it's more of a mix bag. I'm seeing the short business routes losing frequencies like (PIT/ORD/RDU), but the leisure stuff like Florida gaining frequencies. Again, leisure is coming back much faster than short haul business travel.

Overall, seems like more capacity with the final adjustments.

trueblew wrote:

While I'm happy to see this expansion, where are the Mint customers coming from to support this service? Or do they anticipate business travel to resume soon?

There are a lot of people who would fly JetBlue on NJ side that find JFK too far. This is about gaining new customers also. Looks like they are adding mint flights for July with final adjustments so the premium transcon market looks to be coming back sooner than expected.

trueblew wrote:
They're going to be able to execute that with their current number of gates?

Would be interesting to see hear about how gate allocation work in new terminal 1. I heard its all CUTE, but would think there is preferential access for some gates. Maybe by showing greater ambition here, they will get more preferential gate access in the new terminal. What they had in existing terminal A should be able to support this since other routes (like BOS-EWR) aren't likely to recover to full capacity for a while
 
catiii
Posts: 3591
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:36 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
So theoretically how big can B6 grow to in EWR? I can definitely see possibly UA subleasing their T1 gates to B6 to make a quick penny. (UA has confirmed they have gate and lounge space in T1)


Why would UA lease Gates to B6 to allow B6 to compete more effectively against them?

I could realistically see B6, once the next set of Mint 321s are delivered, replicating on a smaller scale the Mint network it has out of JFK at EWR, to include TCON and the Caribbean (with maybe the exception of a route here or there). I could also see additional connect the dots service as well on the traditional Core 32Ms/320s. I don’t see suicidal moves like OA hub flying like ATL/ORD/DEN etc.
 
N649DL
Posts: 981
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:45 am

tphuang wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:
Duplicate post. My apologies. My iphone has been acting up this morning. Mods please delete.

If UA could acquire the real estate it would be a good strategic move. I think they’re just fine with their current operation (again they have the only single airport long haul/short haul hub in the NYC area) but with only 3 full service legacy airlines left, that JFK presence would be nice. CO had about the same setup that UA has now (massive EWR presence and hub service to LGA) but the market is now less fragmented and all 3 airlines need some presence at all three airports in my opinion. I think you have the service levels and destinations about right.

As for my earlier post, I was simply clapping back at the notion that UA at EWR would end up like AA at JFK. B6 ate AAs lunch at JFK. There are a lot of posts on this thread and others that constantly talk of UA being at a disadvantage in the NYC market. I do not think that is the case. CO/UA have become NYC’s largest carrier due to their EWR hub. This will be a bigger fight for B6 than taking on AA in the domestic and Caribbean markets from JFK. Add to that, DL has indicated that they still plan on defending their turf and growing at BOS. B6 is going to have to fight a 2 front war here with the two stronger legacies.

I still agree with the Yahoo Finance article I posted. I think B6 sees the opportunity to try something that will be very easy to undo if it gets too hot in the proverbial kitchen.

Nobody in their right mind would think UA at EWR would end up like AA at JFK. B6 simply won't have enough gates at EWR to mount such a challenge. I think they can co-exist pretty nicely with both running a profitable operation, but UA will also have to up their game here For too long, people on NJ side had no choice other than UA. A lot of people on jersey side would consider switching their flying needs to B6 or at least splitting between the two.

The skift article misses the point about DL. There is no better time than now for LCCs to take jabs at legacies. This is about B6 taking the fight to JFK rather than playing defensive at BOS. Corporate travel is non-existent in NE at the moment. That's why they made these moves and why DL has cut pretty much every non-hub market out of BOS for several months now. DL will be busy protecting its turf at JFK/LGA before adding back BOS stuff.

I think UA messed up here. Anyone looking at the situation could've seen that B6's obvious move was build up EWR and JFK. They should've settled on some kind of partnership with B6 offering domestic interline and pathway to star alliance along with slots at LGA/DCA in exchange for some slots at JFK and no further incursion into EWR. And now they have to deal with a more crowded EWR.


Sure, but UA at EWR was always hub captive unlike AA at JFK. CO was *EXTREMELY* dominant at EWR and AA was looking to pinch JFK before DL or B6 was even dominant over there. UA at EWR is an ex-CO hub (now well integrated into the UA network) and slots are dead at the airport. That means Frontier, Spirit and JetBlue can pick away at CO's former "headstrong" EWR leisure network with ease (since UA knows that they really need to defend ORD / IAH / DEN / SFO over it.) AA at JFK (when they planned to build their original T8 in 1999) intent was to pick away at DL (then at the ex-Pan Am Terminal) but realized since then that the ex-US PHL hub is superior in retrospect. When AA announced the new T8, I don't think B6 was even a full-on airline back in the day. The AA terminal at JFK for T8 was to take on DL at JFK and also CO at EWR when it was announced. Since then, JFK has accepted B6 and DL being their dominant carriers whereas this is relatively a bit of a shock to the EWR folks in terms of competition (regarding B6 entering the ring.)

UA really needs to think this out with T-1 being built at EWR. It's no longer going to be a fortress operation as airlines will constantly chip away at their fortress network (since slots are gone.) Leaving JFK was a huge issue but what's done is done. And now with B6 expanding at EWR, it's likely easier for UA to expand out of LGA over JFK at this point. Maybe resume the ex-CO LGA-AUA route for starters?


Sorry for the rant, but I think it can be agreed upon that EWR is going to be chipped away from CO's former fortress hub going forward. Much like how EWR was in the early 1990s. Just my 2 Cents.
 
KFTG
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:13 am

Slightly off topic, but who handled CO at JFK when they flew there?
 
tphuang
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:47 am

Does the new terminal 1 have preferential access to most of the gates or are they all truly shared. If it's the former, how do they decide which ones have preferential access and which ones are shared? That would seem like the biggest limiting factor to JetBlue or the ULCCs at the moment. Is it still going to have limited opening in 2021? What happens to T A at that time?
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:58 am

As an update to the flight count. I took a look at July 26 out of JFK, EWR.

With the added flights, JFK is at 99 for that day and EWR is at 23 (including more PR/DR flights as well as 1x for LAX/SFO). At this pace of increase, we might see them at 120 out of JFK and 35 at EWR sometimes in August.
 
T5towbar
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:08 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
So theoretically how big can B6 grow to in EWR? I can definitely see possibly UA subleasing their T1 gates to B6 to make a quick penny. (UA has confirmed they have gate and lounge space in T1)


Not happening. And especially after last weeks announcement, UA won't be doing B6 any favors. The issue for B6 growth shouldn't be gate space. (they should get a fair number of gates) In normal times, the issue would be peak hour slots. if all the carriers were operating their normal schedules, but these aren't normal times. So they should be able to run their planned schedule.

The full UA operation cannot fit into Terminal C. Right now it can. The only reason A2 was abandoned is because there are no UAX 145's. They got sent to IAD (C5).
There has been a few UAX 170/75 that has returned, and I think that the 550's are returning??. So as things stand, everything can fit in C1 & C2, with the exception of some widebodies that come to C3 (and some that come into B3 - notably FRA). I miss all of the wide bodies that come into B2 & B3. Now it is a ghost town.
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Cointrin330
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:41 am

catiii wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
B6 is a bug compared to UA...and they could easily treat them as such if this were any other times. It's a ballsy move by B6 and is going to drain a lot of their cash. I'm surprised their creditors (including the US govt if they took a loan) aren't looking at this with interest and maybe a bit of derision. Let's go blow Uncle Sam's money on trying to build a new hub in the city with the biggest UA hub in their system. It's nuts.


First off, EWR isn’t UA’s biggest hub. Second, creditors love getting paid. Period. Anything that generates money to pay them (like poaching premium traffic) isn’t frowned upon. Third, if you think Treasury post CARES is weighing in on what routes an airline is starting you obviously don’t work at one. Fourth, what makes you think it’s going to “drain a lot of cash?”

Don’t forget the “bug” drove UA out of JFK...


EWR is not now, nor was it ever, UA (or CO's) largest hub. Pre-COVID19, UA was the fourth busiest hub for UA, behind ORD, IAH, and DEN and averaged around 350-400 daily departures, depending on the time of year. In CO days, it was the most profitable of CO's 3 US hubs (IAH and CLE being the other two).
 
T5towbar
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:45 am

tphuang wrote:
Does the new terminal 1 have preferential access to most of the gates or are they all truly shared. If it's the former, how do they decide which ones have preferential access and which ones are shared? That would seem like the biggest limiting factor to JetBlue or the ULCCs at the moment. Is it still going to have limited opening in 2021? What happens to T A at that time?


I don't know what will happen to AC (will there be a widebody gate or a shutdown gate to fit their 787 YVR flight, but if things go according to plan, B6 & AC (since they are in A1) will be the first tenants when it opens, because A1 (banjo) has be torn down first. F9 & NK will move from Term B should be next. Then AS and AA will make their move from A3. Then UA / UAX will move as well. UAX; AA and AS can move in the same time without disruption. The terminals (banjos) will be torn down for a hardstand, but the main terminal building where the monorail goes thru will be left intact. Maybe office/retail space, or who knows. Heard rumors of a hotel too.

Don't know the allocation of gates yet, but the aforementioned carriers will be moving to A-1. Everybody except DL. (I don't know the reason for that, but this is what I heard). These are supposed to be shared gates. but you know carriers will be given some preferential treatment. I also hear that AA and UA will have lounges as well. It's scheduled to be open 2Q of 2021. They would like to have the terminal; arrival & departure roads, and the rental car building done when opening happens. Right now, looks like construction is still on schedule. Looks pretty good from where I see it every day.

AA
AC
AS
B6
F9
NK
UA/UAX
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jfklganyc
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:56 am

T5towbar wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
So theoretically how big can B6 grow to in EWR? I can definitely see possibly UA subleasing their T1 gates to B6 to make a quick penny. (UA has confirmed they have gate and lounge space in T1)


Not happening. And especially after last weeks announcement, UA won't be doing B6 any favors. The issue for B6 growth shouldn't be gate space. (they should get a fair number of gates) In normal times, the issue would be peak hour slots. if all the carriers were operating their normal schedules, but these aren't normal times. So they should be able to run their planned schedule.

The full UA operation cannot fit into Terminal C. Right now it can. The only reason A2 was abandoned is because there are no UAX 145's. They got sent to IAD (C5).
There has been a few UAX 170/75 that has returned, and I think that the 550's are returning??. So as things stand, everything can fit in C1 & C2, with the exception of some widebodies that come to C3 (and some that come into B3 - notably FRA). I miss all of the wide bodies that come into B2 & B3. Now it is a ghost town.


I dont think UA has a say in future gates at all

They have an abandoned banjo in Terminal A

B6 is expanding. Plain and simple. F9 and NK are expanding too.

This isn’t Atlanta. Gate use doesn’t get run by the big airline for approval. As of now, UA has no need for gates beyond Terminal C. That may change down the road...but other airlines are making moves now
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:00 pm

T5towbar wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Does the new terminal 1 have preferential access to most of the gates or are they all truly shared. If it's the former, how do they decide which ones have preferential access and which ones are shared? That would seem like the biggest limiting factor to JetBlue or the ULCCs at the moment. Is it still going to have limited opening in 2021? What happens to T A at that time?


I don't know what will happen to AC (will there be a widebody gate or a shutdown gate to fit their 787 YVR flight, but if things go according to plan, B6 & AC (since they are in A1) will be the first tenants when it opens, because A1 (banjo) has be torn down first. F9 & NK will move from Term B should be next. Then AS and AA will make their move from A3. Then UA / UAX will move as well. UAX; AA and AS can move in the same time without disruption. The terminals (banjos) will be torn down for a hardstand, but the main terminal building where the monorail goes thru will be left intact. Maybe office/retail space, or who knows. Heard rumors of a hotel too.

Don't know the allocation of gates yet, but the aforementioned carriers will be moving to A-1. Everybody except DL. (I don't know the reason for that, but this is what I heard). These are supposed to be shared gates. but you know carriers will be given some preferential treatment. I also hear that AA and UA will have lounges as well. It's scheduled to be open 2Q of 2021. They would like to have the terminal; arrival & departure roads, and the rental car building done when opening happens. Right now, looks like construction is still on schedule. Looks pretty good from where I see it every day.

AA
AC
AS
B6
F9
NK
UA/UAX


It looks like the Monorail is a bit short of the new Terminal?

Will it just be a long walk? Or will they extend the trackage until a replacement is in place down the road?
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:01 pm

KFTG wrote:
Slightly off topic, but who handled CO at JFK when they flew there?



They flew out of T4. I think they handled themselves. Likely outsourced below wing
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:29 pm

tphuang wrote:
Just taking a look at late July schedule again and it looks like JetBlue has made their final adjustments. Interesting stuff in that I'm seeing a lot of major JFK routes getting additional flights for that time. They must be seeing some solid booking coming in lately. I think NYC's pentup demand is finally coming out. That should bode well for August schedule also. At this pace, they are going to be at probably close to 100 flights on peak days out of JFK in late July.

Some places I'm seeing more flights are. These are all increased ones I can see.
STI - 6x daily
SDQ - 5x daily
SJU - 4x daily
PAP - 2x daily
KIN - 2x daily
POS - 1x daily
LAX - 6x daily
SFO - 4x daily
ATL - 2x daily
MCO - 6x daily
FLL - 5x daily

The VFR routes to PR/DR are really popular, but even PAP/KIN are back up a little bit. It still seems like they are not oferring enough capacity here, because I'm seeing most of the non-middle seat sold out with well over a month out. Looks like they can't bring these flights back fast enough. Based on the fares I'm seeing, they will make a lot of money on these even with 60% LF. It's too bad DL figured it out and are restarting those routes in Aug. Aside from that, more capacity to Florida and mint also. ATL looks to be doing great. ORD is still not showing up.

Out of Boston, it's more of a mix bag. I'm seeing the short business routes losing frequencies like (PIT/ORD/RDU), but the leisure stuff like Florida gaining frequencies. Again, leisure is coming back much faster than short haul business travel.

Overall, seems like more capacity with the final adjustments.

trueblew wrote:

While I'm happy to see this expansion, where are the Mint customers coming from to support this service? Or do they anticipate business travel to resume soon?

There are a lot of people who would fly JetBlue on NJ side that find JFK too far. This is about gaining new customers also. Looks like they are adding mint flights for July with final adjustments so the premium transcon market looks to be coming back sooner than expected.

trueblew wrote:
They're going to be able to execute that with their current number of gates?

Would be interesting to see hear about how gate allocation work in new terminal 1. I heard its all CUTE, but would think there is preferential access for some gates. Maybe by showing greater ambition here, they will get more preferential gate access in the new terminal. What they had in existing terminal A should be able to support this since other routes (like BOS-EWR) aren't likely to recover to full capacity for a while



The DR is finally opening up.

This was supposed to happen in late May and Jetblue loaded a bunch of flights for June. Then they kept it closed, so Jetblue had to cancel a bunch of flights.

I don’t think people really appreciate what a big piece of the pie the DR is to the JFK operation.

Normally close to 20 flights a day
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:31 pm

Looking at the OAG this week, I am surprised by how much Delta is keeping Jfk wide open.

Routes like CLE and RDU with 0 flights for August. Big drawdowns across the board.

UA and DL are leaving their respective hubs wide open for B6 to gain some marketshare
 
T5towbar
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:31 pm

It looks like the Monorail is a bit short of the new Terminal?

Will it just be a long walk? Or will they extend the trackage until a replacement is in place down the road?[/quote]


There is a spur goes to the AirTrain maintenance shed. It runs parallel to Earhart Drive. That is where the new station will be. Near the old Cell Phone Lot where the limos and taxis hang out. So it won't be a long walk. That will be the new main line, since that track won't be needed.
The main track goes to P 1; 2 and 3 where the rental cars are. That won't be needed since there will be a consolidated rental car center in front of the terminal on the other side of the creek. A skybridge will take you from the terminal to the RAC.

You really can't see it because Earhart Drive is closed for the new approach roads. You now have to take the long way to get to Chelsea; FedEx; and employee Lot F.
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tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:39 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Looking at the OAG this week, I am surprised by how much Delta is keeping Jfk wide open.

Routes like CLE and RDU with 0 flights for August. Big drawdowns across the board.

UA and DL are leaving their respective hubs wide open for B6 to gain some marketshare


I'm seeing LGA flights get loaded without cuts on BOS-LGA (at least according to Jetblue.com). Did they get 3 additional slots somewhere?
 
tphuang
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:22 pm

T5towbar wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Does the new terminal 1 have preferential access to most of the gates or are they all truly shared. If it's the former, how do they decide which ones have preferential access and which ones are shared? That would seem like the biggest limiting factor to JetBlue or the ULCCs at the moment. Is it still going to have limited opening in 2021? What happens to T A at that time?


I don't know what will happen to AC (will there be a widebody gate or a shutdown gate to fit their 787 YVR flight, but if things go according to plan, B6 & AC (since they are in A1) will be the first tenants when it opens, because A1 (banjo) has be torn down first. F9 & NK will move from Term B should be next. Then AS and AA will make their move from A3. Then UA / UAX will move as well. UAX; AA and AS can move in the same time without disruption. The terminals (banjos) will be torn down for a hardstand, but the main terminal building where the monorail goes thru will be left intact. Maybe office/retail space, or who knows. Heard rumors of a hotel too.

Don't know the allocation of gates yet, but the aforementioned carriers will be moving to A-1. Everybody except DL. (I don't know the reason for that, but this is what I heard). These are supposed to be shared gates. but you know carriers will be given some preferential treatment. I also hear that AA and UA will have lounges as well. It's scheduled to be open 2Q of 2021. They would like to have the terminal; arrival & departure roads, and the rental car building done when opening happens. Right now, looks like construction is still on schedule. Looks pretty good from where I see it every day.

AA
AC
AS
B6
F9
NK
UA/UAX


Thanks for the info. Sounds like if JetBlue wanted to really compete at EWR, it will need to add flights quickly at the new Terminal 1 after they move in to get "preferential treatment" for more of the gates and to get time slots before UA add enough flights that airspace is overly crowded again. They might have sometime if TATL and TPAC stuff remains weak for a few years, but can't wait too long if they want to build this up to like a 100 flight station.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:49 pm

tphuang wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Looking at the OAG this week, I am surprised by how much Delta is keeping Jfk wide open.

Routes like CLE and RDU with 0 flights for August. Big drawdowns across the board.

UA and DL are leaving their respective hubs wide open for B6 to gain some marketshare


I'm seeing LGA flights get loaded without cuts on BOS-LGA (at least according to Jetblue.com). Did they get 3 additional slots somewhere?



that is interesting.

You could go bowling between landings at LGA now

The airport def took it on the chin out of the 3 NY airports

Im sure they could grab a few slots but I just assumed they reduced BOS from 10 daily. They certainly dont need that
 
windian425
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:00 pm

Once they establish a focus city in EWR B6 could also consider launching EWR-LON flights with A321XLR's. These flights will compliment the JFK & BOS transatlantic ops.
 
IdlewildJFK
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:30 pm

tphuang wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Looking at the OAG this week, I am surprised by how much Delta is keeping Jfk wide open.

Routes like CLE and RDU with 0 flights for August. Big drawdowns across the board.

UA and DL are leaving their respective hubs wide open for B6 to gain some marketshare


I'm seeing LGA flights get loaded without cuts on BOS-LGA (at least according to Jetblue.com). Did they get 3 additional slots somewhere?


Honest question, if the FAA is waiving slot usage until late Oct, what’s to stop an airline from going above their allotment until such time as slots are reinstated?
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:16 pm

IdlewildJFK wrote:
Honest question, if the FAA is waiving slot usage until late Oct, what’s to stop an airline from going above their allotment until such time as slots are reinstated?

I'm no expert on this, but my understanding is that you can't use slots that you don't have, you just aren't required to utilize the ones you've already got. Under normal circumstances, they'd be required to utilize the slot or risk losing it, so the waiver simply removes that requirement. I would expect the timeframe to be extended through at least next spring though. In other words, the waiver isn't completely undoing the slot system, it's just easing the burden on existing slot holders.
 
CaptCoolHand
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:37 pm

IdlewildJFK wrote:
tphuang wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Looking at the OAG this week, I am surprised by how much Delta is keeping Jfk wide open.

Routes like CLE and RDU with 0 flights for August. Big drawdowns across the board.

UA and DL are leaving their respective hubs wide open for B6 to gain some marketshare


I'm seeing LGA flights get loaded without cuts on BOS-LGA (at least according to Jetblue.com). Did they get 3 additional slots somewhere?


Honest question, if the FAA is waiving slot usage until late Oct, what’s to stop an airline from going above their allotment until such time as slots are reinstated?


In theory. Why not? But I think the point is that running “hot” isn’t making money right now with barely 500k passengers flying every day nation wide.

You could fly over your slot limits, but you could also buy a new truck and put $20k in it and set it on fire 50 times a day too.
 
catiii
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:44 pm

windian425 wrote:
Once they establish a focus city in EWR B6 could also consider launching EWR-LON flights with A321XLR's. These flights will compliment the JFK & BOS transatlantic ops.


They wouldn’t do it with the XLR. They would do it with the LR. No need for the extra range.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:15 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Separate post:

United made a big mistake in New York

Essentially they have retrenched significantly while giving the appearance of strengthening their Newark hub

Over the last decade, they have essentially made themselves worthless out of JFK and LaGuardia unless you were flying to one of their hubs. Then they closed JFK.

This allowed other airlines like Jetblue Virgin and Alaska to get into the Transcon business.

I long-ago predicted that the competition would follow them right to their drawbridge at the fortress in Newark...and now it has.

“12 daily from JFK and now 3 daily to Newark.” What a great advantage for Jetblue to advertise with that line.

Bravo to them. Bravo.

Perhaps one of the biggest moves they have made in the history of the company was made this morning

United didn't even jave their own Terminal at JFK. and really didn't make a lot of investment there TO have much of an operation. However? In EWR which is still and NYC area airport? They're Kickin' ASS!! and quite a few of their Alliance partners have followed them there and are doing quite well there as well. SO? What does that tell you? It tells me that JFK isn't the be all to end all and that Maybe EWR is in an even Better position to compete than we previously knew. United really shouldn't go back to JFK until the Airline Fort concept is canned for Normal terminals. . We have space at LGA EWR. PHL IAD and BOS. United can readily compete on the east coast though in my opinion we should have a florida gateway as well to connect down to Brazil and other parts of south America like we do out of IAH.
 
FSDan
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:26 pm

tphuang wrote:
I don't think A220s would be the kind of pressure that would scare off B6. After all, B6 have been co-existing pretty well with DL on JFK-ATL. Very profitable route for them.


Agreed. I don't see DL throwing the kitchen sink at B6 on these routes, although I could be wrong. The A220 would be a moderate competitive response to make sure DL has a great product in the market.

tphuang wrote:
I don't know what JetBlue's plans are with their own A220s. But if DL ends up running A220-100 against B6 running A220-300 on the same route, it will be a huge problem for DL. It will be 30 more seat and about the same overall operating cost (lower fuel cost, but higher staffing cost all the way around)


To be honest, I don't see B6 causing anything near a "huge problem" for DL in JFK-MSP/DTW. The reason these are some of the smallest hub-to-hub routes for DL (with 4-5 daily flights, largely on aircraft under 150 seats) is that the higher volume and value of traffic in the local markets prefers LGA, where DL dominates both routes. That leaves JFK to cater to some smaller, lower value O&D traffic plus connections from MSP, DTW, and small Midwestern markets to secondary European destinations, Africa, etc. B6's not going to take a significant amount of that connecting traffic away from DL because they and their partners don't fly to most of the markets on either end.
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FSDan
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:34 pm

millionsofmiles wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
Why will B6 add EWR-ATL? DL is not big at EWR and the B6 strategy is to fight DL at JFK, not EWR.


...up till now. Clearly, B6 smells Delta’s blood in the New York area waters.


Construing B6's adds of EWR-SFO/LAX/SAN/LAS/PHX/AUS/SRQ/JAX/CHS as more of an attack on DL than on UA is delusional. The big opportunity here is for B6 to pick up more NJ and Lower Manhattan O&D traffic, which stands to hurt UA as much as (and likely more than) DL.

And if we're talking about blood in the NYC water, look for the wounded beast to be AA.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:43 pm

I think we can all agree B6’s EWR announcement was a little bit of an attack on everyone.

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