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Blerg
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Updated: LH to restructucture SN

Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:34 am

Good afternoon,

Reports are surfacing in Belgium that LH is no longer excluding the option of letting SN Brussels file for bankruptcy as negotiations with the Belgian government drag on. According the the source, Belgians are requesting growth guarantees for SN (probably similar to what the Austrians got).

Board members of SN and Lufthansa Group representatives are supposed to meet on Monday.There are several different topics on which the two sides can't agree upon. Lufthansa is also pushing for 1.000 of the 4.000 workforce to be let go.

Personally I would not be surprised if Lufthansa Group went for the bankruptcy option. SN Brussels has been a rather problematic part of the Group and all that they do can be taken over by Eurowings.

Source: https://www.brusselstimes.com/belgium/1 ... t-reports/
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:19 am

Reuters picked up the same story.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN23Q1PA

There isn't much value to a small subsidiary that routinely loses money/fails to earn its cost of capital, other than as a small piece of maintaining LH's market share/pricing power on continental routes.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:28 am

Can the Africa routes with a modest short-haul feeder network (maybe 15 routes to the largest cities) cover the cost of capital ?
 
TC957
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:51 am

Sabena take two.
 
airbazar
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:52 am

Would this be the first time a carrier uses the new "Ch11-like" bankruptcy laws in the EU. Or are we talking about insolvency here?
 
Toinou
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:23 pm

[threeid][/threeid]
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Can the Africa routes with a modest short-haul feeder network (maybe 15 routes to the largest cities) cover the cost of capital ?

I was thinking about this aspect. I think (but I may be wrong) that the African network still has a value. that LH would probably not want to waste. Whether it is tied to the brand or not, I have no idea.
I'm quite sure that if this was to happen, they would devise a way to keep that asset, in one form or another.
 
Blerg
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:30 pm

Toinou wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Can the Africa routes with a modest short-haul feeder network (maybe 15 routes to the largest cities) cover the cost of capital ?

I was thinking about this aspect. I think (but I may be wrong) that the African network still has a value. that LH would probably not want to waste. Whether it is tied to the brand or not, I have no idea.
I'm quite sure that if this was to happen, they would devise a way to keep that asset, in one form or another.


We always come back to this Africa talk when it comes to SN. Personally I don't think it's so much about the airline as it is about the market. I mean demand is there because of colonial past so people will fly regardless if it is EW or SN. Lufthansa probably knows this. Unfortunately with LH's aid being uncertain I am sure this SN-related headache isn't helping them. SN struggled before corona, I can't imagine this changing now. SN does not really have a distinct role to play especially now while being sandwiched between AMS and CDG.
 
vinniewinnie
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:47 pm

Blerg wrote:
Toinou wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Can the Africa routes with a modest short-haul feeder network (maybe 15 routes to the largest cities) cover the cost of capital ?

I was thinking about this aspect. I think (but I may be wrong) that the African network still has a value. that LH would probably not want to waste. Whether it is tied to the brand or not, I have no idea.
I'm quite sure that if this was to happen, they would devise a way to keep that asset, in one form or another.


We always come back to this Africa talk when it comes to SN. Personally I don't think it's so much about the airline as it is about the market. I mean demand is there because of colonial past so people will fly regardless if it is EW or SN. Lufthansa probably knows this. Unfortunately with LH's aid being uncertain I am sure this SN-related headache isn't helping them. SN struggled before corona, I can't imagine this changing now. SN does not really have a distinct role to play especially now while being sandwiched between AMS and CDG.


Nothing to do with colonial past did you know that most SN destinations are not old Belgian colonies?

SN has experience of flying to Africa and Belgium has the rights to fly to many African countries. That is what makes SN and Belgium interesting as hubs.

As to the argument that any company could fly to Africa, wrong again, Africa is not Asia there is a whole network on the ground supporting those flights. Site reps, own Check in agents, physical sales offices are some of the peculiarities of Africa that you won’t find in many other parts of the world anymore. In one word to fly to Africa you need to know Africa, not many companies can’t start flying to Africa like that. It takes time.

In one word you are totally wrong.
 
Blerg
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:51 pm

vinniewinnie wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Toinou wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]
I was thinking about this aspect. I think (but I may be wrong) that the African network still has a value. that LH would probably not want to waste. Whether it is tied to the brand or not, I have no idea.
I'm quite sure that if this was to happen, they would devise a way to keep that asset, in one form or another.


We always come back to this Africa talk when it comes to SN. Personally I don't think it's so much about the airline as it is about the market. I mean demand is there because of colonial past so people will fly regardless if it is EW or SN. Lufthansa probably knows this. Unfortunately with LH's aid being uncertain I am sure this SN-related headache isn't helping them. SN struggled before corona, I can't imagine this changing now. SN does not really have a distinct role to play especially now while being sandwiched between AMS and CDG.


Nothing to do with colonial past did you know that most SN destinations are not old Belgian colonies?

SN has experience of flying to Africa and Belgium has the rights to fly to many African countries. That is what makes SN and Belgium interesting as hubs.

As to the argument that any company could fly to Africa, wrong again, Africa is not Asia there is a whole network on the ground supporting those flights. Site reps, own Check in agents, physical sales offices are some of the peculiarities of Africa that you won’t find in many other parts of the world anymore. In one word to fly to Africa you need to know Africa, not many companies can’t start flying to Africa like that. It takes time.

In one word you are totally wrong.


Though I'm not wrong when it comes to one thing: the extent of importance of Africa for LH Group. Obviously this segment of SN is not as important as LH has already tried to kill the SN brand and to replace it with EW and now they are getting ready to let them file for bankruptcy.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:52 pm

If negotiations between Lufthansa and the Belgian Govt don't work.... could we then see EW or LH flying between maybe DUS or FRA and the most profitable African routes, and the routes between Brussels and Africa get dropped. LH have access to all the customer and route data as well as info on the internal processes in each country and people to make the African routes work
Last edited by davidjohnson6 on Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Blerg
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:54 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
If negotiations between Lufthansa and the Belgian Govt don't work.... could we then see EW or LH flying between maybe DUS or FRA and the most profitable African routes, and the routes between Brussels and Africa get dropped. LH have access to all the customer and route data


How is the relationship between LH and ET? They could funnel a large part of SN traffic through ADD.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:59 pm

With the history of not meeting capital needs, this is a tough negotiations. Of course the government must go for as good as other markets received. Will we see the minimum fares seen in Austria?

This could go either way. Bankruptcy of some kind is the most likely.

Lightsaber
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Toinou
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:20 pm

Blerg wrote:
Though I'm not wrong when it comes to one thing: the extent of importance of Africa for LH Group. Obviously this segment of SN is not as important as LH has already tried to kill the SN brand and to replace it with EW and now they are getting ready to let them file for bankruptcy.

I don't think you're wrong here.
My comment was about how LH seems to waste the potential of this market.
 
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Terrier79
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:24 pm

Blerg wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
If negotiations between Lufthansa and the Belgian Govt don't work.... could we then see EW or LH flying between maybe DUS or FRA and the most profitable African routes, and the routes between Brussels and Africa get dropped. LH have access to all the customer and route data


How is the relationship between LH and ET? They could funnel a large part of SN traffic through ADD.

The largest chunk of Brussels’ African network is in West Africa, so ADD in the east is not optimally located to transfer passengers from Europe.

The development is interesting anyway. I share the opinion of most that Brussels never really fitted into LH Group and that they never had a really strategy what the role of SN in the group should be. „Africa Specialist“ was always a weak argument to me.

I expect that SN will be dropped. Either sold to state of Belgium or left for bankruptcy. And I think it would be a good choice for LH to do so and concentrate on the survival of the remaining group.
 
a350lover
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:40 pm

Despite Eurowings year after year being a failed business for the Lufthansa Group, it also seems to be the perfect "solution" for whatever part of the network in risk of disappear.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:08 pm

a350lover wrote:
Despite Eurowings year after year being a failed business for the Lufthansa Group, it also seems to be the perfect "solution" for whatever part of the network in risk of disappear.


EW has been losing money since 2015 (Over 521 million to be exact). Compare it to SN which made 72.67 mil since 2015 and lost 40.6 in 2019. Such shows the hypocrisy of what Carsten is about. SN has a much better strategy compared to EW in this case I believe.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
Westerwaelder
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:08 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
If negotiations between Lufthansa and the Belgian Govt don't work.... could we then see EW or LH flying between maybe DUS or FRA and the most profitable African routes, and the routes between Brussels and Africa get dropped. LH have access to all the customer and route data as well as info on the internal processes in each country and people to make the African routes work


That depends on how much of the traffic originates in BRU and how much is connecting traffic. If most of the traffic connects, then FRA would be the better option. If it's mostly point to point then neither FRA nor DUS would work. SN overall is loss making so adding a connecting flight onto most itineraries might be prohibitive.
 
Blerg
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:41 am

I see that now they are no longer merely looking at letting SN go bankrupt but they are thinking of selling their shares in the airline. Is this proof that for LH, SN is as good as gone? With the ongoing saga at LH, I can't imagine them being too willing to deal with the Belgians right now.

If they do decide to sell, is there anyone besides the government who would be willing to buy them? Maybe IAG?

Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN23Q1PA
 
jrfspa320
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:10 am

Blerg wrote:
I see that now they are no longer merely looking at letting SN go bankrupt but they are thinking of selling their shares in the airline. Is this proof that for LH, SN is as good as gone? With the ongoing saga at LH, I can't imagine them being too willing to deal with the Belgians right now.

If they do decide to sell, is there anyone besides the government who would be willing to buy them? Maybe IAG?

Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN23Q1PA


IAG might if the price was right, however i think they have enough on their plate at the moment.
 
Blerg
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:20 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I see that now they are no longer merely looking at letting SN go bankrupt but they are thinking of selling their shares in the airline. Is this proof that for LH, SN is as good as gone? With the ongoing saga at LH, I can't imagine them being too willing to deal with the Belgians right now.

If they do decide to sell, is there anyone besides the government who would be willing to buy them? Maybe IAG?

Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN23Q1PA


IAG might if the price was right, however i think they have enough on their plate at the moment.


That would definitely be an interesting development especially as they would get a hub right between AMS and CDG and they would push LH Group out of Belgium. Maybe the government would buy SN from LH only to sell it for next to nothing to IAG.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:28 am

What would IAG really gain from having Brussels Air ? Royal Air Maroc has a West Africa network and BA already fly to Nigeria + Ghana. Short haul out of BRU doesn't mix particularly well with BA's business model
 
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MrBren
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:33 am

BRU should be closed and the Belgians should use AMS and CDG instead (both linked with TGV to Brussels).
 
Blerg
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:56 am

MrBren wrote:
BRU should be closed and the Belgians should use AMS and CDG instead (both linked with TGV to Brussels).


And just keep CRL as an LCC alternative.
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:04 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
What would IAG really gain from having Brussels Air ? Royal Air Maroc has a West Africa network and BA already fly to Nigeria + Ghana. Short haul out of BRU doesn't mix particularly well with BA's business model


Realistically RAM isn’t a great airline and I’m sure IAG would rather put passengers on their own airline. The short haul mix at BRU wouldn’t need to mix with BA. If IAG was buying them they usually treat them separately just like Iberia and Aer Lingus. Brussels could become a similar “value” airline to Aer Lingus.
 
DDR
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:24 am

Based on the country size and geography, there is no reason for a Belgium to have a flag carrier. There are enough flights from other carriers to Brussels to satisfy demand. Although I will always miss SABENA.
 
Toinou
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:28 am

DDR wrote:
Based on the country size and geography, there is no reason for a Belgium to have a flag carrier. There are enough flights from other carriers to Brussels to satisfy demand. Although I will always miss SABENA.

What's the metric for that? What size of country "deserves" a flag carrier?
Even the geographic factor is tricky. It may be true for some island countries, but only to a limited extant.
If we go fully with your argument, your sentence should be "There is no reason to have a flag carrier."
 
Noshow
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:29 am

Brussels is the EU's capital and geographically sits right in the middle of Europe. Plus Belgium has a lot of links to Africa. It makes sense to base some airline there.
 
GLANKG
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:41 am

BRU handled over 26 million passengers last year, only 22 airports are busier in Europe.
Belgium has 9th largest population in EU.
Things you could read here lol
 
B737MAX
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:12 am

GLANKG wrote:
BRU handled over 26 million passengers last year, only 22 airports are busier in Europe.
Belgium has 9th largest population in EU.
Things you could read here lol


Yep. Quite shocking to read so much ignorance here.
Some members might actually be discovering Belgium is not the capital of France...
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:20 am

The state of Belgium could probably buy SN for pennies, and the current politicians could make themselves look good for saving jobs. It’s a win-win. After all, if Italy can do it with AZ, so can Belgium with SN. My hunch is that nothing will come of this. I bet LH decides to keep them in the group and finally offers a reasonable compromise. You really need to play hardball with German negotiators and take your time to make sure all needs are met. If they don’t budge in this case, it’s their loss.
 
stylo777
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:31 am

vinniewinnie wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Toinou wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]
I was thinking about this aspect. I think (but I may be wrong) that the African network still has a value. that LH would probably not want to waste. Whether it is tied to the brand or not, I have no idea.
I'm quite sure that if this was to happen, they would devise a way to keep that asset, in one form or another.


We always come back to this Africa talk when it comes to SN. Personally I don't think it's so much about the airline as it is about the market. I mean demand is there because of colonial past so people will fly regardless if it is EW or SN. Lufthansa probably knows this. Unfortunately with LH's aid being uncertain I am sure this SN-related headache isn't helping them. SN struggled before corona, I can't imagine this changing now. SN does not really have a distinct role to play especially now while being sandwiched between AMS and CDG.


Nothing to do with colonial past did you know that most SN destinations are not old Belgian colonies?

SN has experience of flying to Africa and Belgium has the rights to fly to many African countries. That is what makes SN and Belgium interesting as hubs.

As to the argument that any company could fly to Africa, wrong again, Africa is not Asia there is a whole network on the ground supporting those flights. Site reps, own Check in agents, physical sales offices are some of the peculiarities of Africa that you won’t find in many other parts of the world anymore. In one word to fly to Africa you need to know Africa, not many companies can’t start flying to Africa like that. It takes time.

In one word you are totally wrong.

it's certainly quite a challenge to set up operations in Africa, but I strongly believe that also this view is a bit overhauled and things have changed to the positive.
in fact, a very good example is the success of TK on the continent. they pretty much fly to every city - the last time I counted was over 50 destinations; and all implemented within the past let's say 4-6 years. That shows that yes, you are right that colonial ties aren't that important, but more the willingness and strategy to develop such network; even without own check-in agents.
 
NLDru
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:20 am

MrBren wrote:
BRU should be closed and the Belgians should use AMS and CDG instead (both linked with TGV to Brussels).


And I think AF/KLM has a much larger network in Africa than SN. Plus that many African airlines fly on CDG/AMS.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:33 am

DDR wrote:
Based on the country size and geography, there is no reason for a Belgium to have a flag carrier. There are enough flights from other carriers to Brussels to satisfy demand. Although I will always miss SABENA.


Really.?.
Same goes for Holland, Luxemburg, Austria, Switzerland, Hungary, Croatia, Slovenia, and even Denmark I would suppose then??. Not to mention weaker economies like Moldova, the Baltics.... Heck even all of Portugal then should be flying on IB via MAD. And whilst we're at it, how about Ireland and EI?? Better have the Irish fly via LHR on BA. And they even have FR after all.
 
emre787
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:12 pm

NLDru wrote:
MrBren wrote:
BRU should be closed and the Belgians should use AMS and CDG instead (both linked with TGV to Brussels).


And I think AF/KLM has a much larger network in Africa than SN. Plus that many African airlines fly on CDG/AMS.


Many African airlines? I hope you were joking... There's pretty much only Kenya Airways flying to AMS. CDG has Kenya Airways too, besides Ethiopian, Air Senegal and Air Madagascar. The rest is only KLM and AF, of which only the latter has a more extensive african network
 
Blerg
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:15 pm

emre787 wrote:
NLDru wrote:
MrBren wrote:
BRU should be closed and the Belgians should use AMS and CDG instead (both linked with TGV to Brussels).


And I think AF/KLM has a much larger network in Africa than SN. Plus that many African airlines fly on CDG/AMS.


Many African airlines? I hope you were joking... There's pretty much only Kenya Airways flying to AMS. CDG has Kenya Airways too, besides Ethiopian, Air Senegal and Air Madagascar. The rest is only KLM and AF, of which only the latter has a more extensive african network


There is also Egyptair and I think Air Algerie expanded their African network last year.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:35 pm

BRU will be around. But I do think TGV service to other hubs weakens the case for a legacy hub at BRU.

The reality is, the airline doesn't make money and that was in the best aviation market we will see for at least 5 years.

I would be surprised if LH didn't let SN fold. This isn't a case if national pride, it is the lack of a business case.

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Jetty
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:50 pm

MrBren wrote:
BRU should be closed and the Belgians should use AMS and CDG instead (both linked with TGV to Brussels).

This would make sense. BRU is at a good location for urban development and probably worth more that way than as an airport. People in Belgium can fly low cost Europe from CRL and all around the world with a short train ride to AMS or CDG.
 
Jetty
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:55 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
DDR wrote:
Based on the country size and geography, there is no reason for a Belgium to have a flag carrier. There are enough flights from other carriers to Brussels to satisfy demand. Although I will always miss SABENA.


Really.?.
Same goes for Holland, Luxemburg, Austria, Switzerland, Hungary, Croatia, Slovenia, and even Denmark I would suppose then??. Not to mention weaker economies like Moldova, the Baltics.... Heck even all of Portugal then should be flying on IB via MAD. And whilst we're at it, how about Ireland and EI?? Better have the Irish fly via LHR on BA. And they even have FR after all.

Big difference is that Belgium is right in between the 4 largest hubs in Europe, and Brussels already has a lowcost airport at CRL. BRU had the opportunity to become a major European hub but that ship sailed with the demise of Sabena.
 
RvA
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:06 pm

Jetty wrote:
MrBren wrote:
BRU should be closed and the Belgians should use AMS and CDG instead (both linked with TGV to Brussels).

This would make sense. BRU is at a good location for urban development and probably worth more that way than as an airport. People in Belgium can fly low cost Europe from CRL and all around the world with a short train ride to AMS or CDG.


Not all Belgians live in Brussels. There is plenty business case for an airport there. Philadelphia to Newark airport is much less time than Western Belgium to AMS or CDG, should PHL also be closed by this logic?
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:12 pm

Over 1m people live in Brussels. 2.5m people live near Brussels. 11.5m people live in Belgium, a wealthy country. The EU and NATO are both based in Brussels. BRU had 26m passengers in 2019
Regardless of what happens to SN, Brussels airport will continue to see millions of pax fly through it every year - BRU is not going to close and be replaced by CRL+PAR+AMS
Last edited by davidjohnson6 on Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Thibault973
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:17 pm

vinniewinnie wrote:

Nothing to do with colonial past did you know that most SN destinations are not old Belgian colonies? .


This literally has everything to do with colonial past. Most of SN African destinations are to francophone countries, which are francophone indeed because of France's and Belgium's colonial empires. Brussels itself being a Francophone country, there is a large Francophone African diaspora there + a lot of connecting traffic from France. SN is almost always the cheapest option to Africa ex-France alongside TK and now TP.
 
Thibault973
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:24 pm

emre787 wrote:

Many African airlines? I hope you were joking... There's pretty much only Kenya Airways flying to AMS. CDG has Kenya Airways too, besides Ethiopian, Air Senegal and Air Madagascar. The rest is only KLM and AF, of which only the latter has a more extensive african network


CDG also has Air Algerie, Air Arabia Marco, Air Cairo, Air Mauritius, Cabo verde, Edyptair, Tassili and Tunisair + Corsair, Tui and Transvia from ORY.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:31 pm

We have a thread on how LH has let the EU portion of SunExpress go into liquidation. I believe this does not bode well as it implies LH is letting divisions that couldn't make money in the prior incredible market... liquidate.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1448041

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airhansa
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Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:37 pm

Brussels seems like a place that doesn't need a home airline. If Africa is the main reason for keeping it, rename it "Aero Congo-Afrique (au belgique)" and focus on fifth freedom rights in Africa competing with Ethiopian.
 
SamAdama
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:18 am

Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:58 pm

:eyebrow:
Really struggling to understand those who claim BRU should close... Such ignorance.

BRU is essential to the Belgian economy and provides tens of thousands of jobs, it won't close.

CDG and AMS are not viable options for anyone, including those living in Brussels, because there's no way 1h30 on an expensive high-speed train service can replace an airport that caters to a wealthy population and economy. CRL is tiny and far away from the economic heartland of Belgium. BRU's in the middle of it.

Worst case scenario would be to see SN go bankrupt, which would hit the airport hard. But competitors would move in swiftly: the market is just too big to ignore.
 
Blerg
Topic Author
Posts: 4059
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:34 pm

lightsaber wrote:
We have a thread on how LH has let the EU portion of SunExpress go into liquidation. I believe this does not bode well as it implies LH is letting divisions that couldn't make money in the prior incredible market... liquidate.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1448041

Lightsaber


Or maybe they are shutting down branches that can't/won't be bailed out by local governments. No government would rush to save Sunexpress or Germanwings but SN, OS and LX are completely different stories.
 
LJ
Posts: 5333
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:30 pm

SamAdama wrote:
:CDG and AMS are not viable options for anyone, including those living in Brussels, because there's no way 1h30 on an expensive high-speed train service can replace an airport that caters to a wealthy population and economy. CRL is tiny and far away from the economic heartland of Belgium. BRU's in the middle of it..


Actually, AF is getting a lot of passengers from Belgium using the Thalys instead of a plane and it won't take long before KL will do the same.

SamAdama wrote:
BRU is essential to the Belgian economy and provides tens of thousands of jobs, it won't close.


It doesn't need to close if SN would be gone. DHL will still be there just like all the other airlines. Moreover, one can wonder if DHL is not more important than SN as having a logistics hub in your country has a lot of value for logistics companies and manufacturers..
 
RvA
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:45 pm

LJ wrote:
SamAdama wrote:
:CDG and AMS are not viable options for anyone, including those living in Brussels, because there's no way 1h30 on an expensive high-speed train service can replace an airport that caters to a wealthy population and economy. CRL is tiny and far away from the economic heartland of Belgium. BRU's in the middle of it..


Actually, AF is getting a lot of passengers from Belgium using the Thalys instead of a plane and it won't take long before KL will do the same.

SamAdama wrote:
BRU is essential to the Belgian economy and provides tens of thousands of jobs, it won't close.


It doesn't need to close if SN would be gone. DHL will still be there just like all the other airlines. Moreover, one can wonder if DHL is not more important than SN as having a logistics hub in your country has a lot of value for logistics companies and manufacturers..


All surrounding airline hubs are getting plenty of Belgian passengers, so is Brussels Airlines but they’re not generating sustainable yields with it. They can restructure, focus on key routes and a bunch of seasonal and I’ve no doubt they can make it work.
I wonder how truly profitable all that niche African flying truly is. I suspect we will see them refocus on business destinations and key leisure and will see a bunch of other routes drop or be handed over to partners where possible.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5749
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:33 pm

Jetty wrote:
MrBren wrote:
BRU should be closed and the Belgians should use AMS and CDG instead (both linked with TGV to Brussels).

This would make sense. BRU is at a good location for urban development and probably worth more that way than as an airport. People in Belgium can fly low cost Europe from CRL and all around the world with a short train ride to AMS or CDG.


Lol you must be trolling.

In any case, Brussels is historically a weak (and cheap) real estate market. If Paris real estate market could be, let's say, New York and Amsterdam could be Boston (AMS is small but very expensive), Brussels would be... Cleveland? Nothing fancy or expensive or desirable about it.
 
DDR
Posts: 1729
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:09 pm

Re: Reports: LH might let SN file for bankruptcy

Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:21 am

How profitable was SABENA? It wasn’t. How profitable is Brussels airlines? It isn’t.

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