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Sancho
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Updated: Aeroméxico files for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:26 pm

According to mexican media, AM is following the steps of AV and LA and will file for chapter 11 soon.

Link (in spanish); https://www.elfinanciero.com.mx/opinion ... r-11-en-ny
 
mozart
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Re: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:28 pm

Wow... which large Latin American airline/group hasn't filed for Ch. 11 yet? GOL, COPA - any other?


Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk Pro
 
Sancho
Topic Author
Posts: 18
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Re: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:12 pm

mozart wrote:
Wow... which large Latin American airline/group hasn't filed for Ch. 11 yet? GOL, COPA - any other?


Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk Pro


Maybe Azul
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2693
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:43 pm

Soooo... relating to Delta...
- JV partner Virgin Australia enters administration
- 20% stake in LATAM - Ch. 11 Bankruptcy
- 49% stake in Virgin Atlantic - Expected to enter administration
- 49% stake in Aeromexico - Expected to file for Ch. 11 bankruptcy.

Unfortunate.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:04 pm

Are there oddities in Mexican bankruptcy law that would cause Aeromexico to file under U.S. law?

That big flushing sound you hear is Delta stockholders' equity going down the toilet.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:12 pm

Yes I was just wondering the same thing how/why are all these foreign companies filing bankruptcy in the United States?
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3722
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:18 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Yes I was just wondering the same thing how/why are all these foreign companies filing bankruptcy in the United States?


Their stock is listed in the US and the US has the most generous bankruptcy reorganization laws and experienced bankruptcy courts on the earth.

Mind you, in the case of AV this is the 2nd time they have filed for CH11 in the US.
 
Insertnamehere
Posts: 310
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:44 am

Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:19 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Soooo... relating to Delta...
- JV partner Virgin Australia enters administration
- 20% stake in LATAM - Ch. 11 Bankruptcy
- 49% stake in Virgin Atlantic - Expected to enter administration
- 49% stake in Aeromexico - Expected to file for Ch. 11 bankruptcy.

Unfortunate.


Getting some Etihad vibes for failed investments
 
Kilgen
Posts: 216
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:19 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Yes I was just wondering the same thing how/why are all these foreign companies filing bankruptcy in the United States?

Avianca and Latam both sell shares in the NYSE and the bankruptcy laws in the US are more flexible than those in Latin America.
 
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enilria
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:28 pm

Kilgen wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Yes I was just wondering the same thing how/why are all these foreign companies filing bankruptcy in the United States?

Avianca and Latam both sell shares in the NYSE and the bankruptcy laws in the US are more flexible than those in Latin America.

Karma is a b**** after all the complaints about EY failed investments and State Aid. Now they’ve done both.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:59 pm

Only reason the US airline industry isn't all running to the courthouse is because of CARES act/funding.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:10 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Only reason the US airline industry isn't all running to the courthouse is because of CARES act/funding.


Or? It could be? They didn't need to.
 
Thibault973
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Re: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:38 pm

mozart wrote:
Wow... which large Latin American airline/group hasn't filed for Ch. 11 yet? GOL, COPA - any other?


GOL is expected to enter Ch. 11 sooner than later. They are going tru and independent audit right now and is expected to file for bankruptcy in the coming weeks.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3722
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:57 pm

Thibault973 wrote:
mozart wrote:
Wow... which large Latin American airline/group hasn't filed for Ch. 11 yet? GOL, COPA - any other?


GOL is expected to enter Ch. 11 sooner than later. They are going tru and independent audit right now and is expected to file for bankruptcy in the coming weeks.


Would not surprise me at all. The only COPA isn't is because they stymied their losses early on by completely suspending all services.
 
T4thH
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:01 pm

Insertnamehere wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Soooo... relating to Delta...
- JV partner Virgin Australia enters administration
- 20% stake in LATAM - Ch. 11 Bankruptcy
- 49% stake in Virgin Atlantic - Expected to enter administration
- 49% stake in Aeromexico - Expected to file for Ch. 11 bankruptcy.

Unfortunate.


Getting some Etihad vibes for failed investments


The difference is, Etihad has actively destroyed the airlines, they have been invested in. They have tried to modify the airlines to a 100% support airline to transfer the passengers to the Ethihad hubs, for further transport with Ethihad. Ethihad has actively executed one airline after another.

The DL investment airlines got just the same illness as all airlines of the world now, perhaps with exception of some freighter airlines. They got COVID-19.
 
Kilgen
Posts: 216
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Re: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:25 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Thibault973 wrote:
mozart wrote:
Wow... which large Latin American airline/group hasn't filed for Ch. 11 yet? GOL, COPA - any other?


GOL is expected to enter Ch. 11 sooner than later. They are going tru and independent audit right now and is expected to file for bankruptcy in the coming weeks.


Would not surprise me at all. The only COPA isn't is because they stymied their losses early on by completely suspending all services.


Copa went to the market to get funding. They got $300 million from the banks and sold $350 million in bonds convertibles to shares. With a burn rate of aprox. $85 million a month, they should have some breathing room until December.

Well, Copa did not suspend service because they wanted. The Panamanian Government closed all international operations from Panama so they had no choice but also shut down temporarily.

The issue is that other than Argentina and maybe Brazil, none of the Latin american governments are actively helping the airlines.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:44 pm

Aeromexico says it has not made the decision to initiate Ch. 11 Bankruptcy:

https://twitter.com/SOYCarlosMota/statu ... 9270020097
 
Biophobe99
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:53 pm

I find it interesting that people are forgetting that a lot of countries have almost completely closed their borders to foreign nationals and demand is down to only 15-20 percent of normal. It is not surprising that even well funded airlines are struggling in this unprecedented market reality. If your government is not helping to shore up their airlines they will all fail in short time because demand is not roaring back.
 
dcajet
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Re: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:16 pm

Kilgen wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Thibault973 wrote:

GOL is expected to enter Ch. 11 sooner than later. They are going tru and independent audit right now and is expected to file for bankruptcy in the coming weeks.


Would not surprise me at all. The only COPA isn't is because they stymied their losses early on by completely suspending all services.


Copa went to the market to get funding. They got $300 million from the banks and sold $350 million in bonds convertibles to shares. With a burn rate of aprox. $85 million a month, they should have some breathing room until December.

Well, Copa did not suspend service because they wanted. The Panamanian Government closed all international operations from Panama so they had no choice but also shut down temporarily.

The issue is that other than Argentina and maybe Brazil, none of the Latin american governments are actively helping the airlines.


Other than propping up Aerolineas Argentinas, (something that was already a daily occurrence before COVID) the government in Argentina is not doing anything to support the private airline sector. Now, they are freaking out after LATAM decided to close LATAM Argentina, but it may just be too late.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Kilgen
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Re: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:24 pm

dcajet wrote:
Other than propping up Aerolineas Argentinas, (something that was already a daily occurrence before COVID) the government in Argentina is not doing anything to support the private airline sector. Now, they are freaking out after LATAM decided to close LATAM Argentina, but it may just be too late.


Well that is 100% true. It could be said that they are propping AR while trying to handicap everyone else.
 
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usxguy
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:00 pm

COPA has also ran a very lean operation from the get-go. Always stockpiling cash & assets, no spending on frivilous thigns. Not much shiny things at their corporate offices or airports, either. Lots of reinvestment in their people, which makes them work harder and be more loyal.
xx
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:07 pm

dcajet wrote:
Kilgen wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

Would not surprise me at all. The only COPA isn't is because they stymied their losses early on by completely suspending all services.


Copa went to the market to get funding. They got $300 million from the banks and sold $350 million in bonds convertibles to shares. With a burn rate of aprox. $85 million a month, they should have some breathing room until December.

Well, Copa did not suspend service because they wanted. The Panamanian Government closed all international operations from Panama so they had no choice but also shut down temporarily.

The issue is that other than Argentina and maybe Brazil, none of the Latin american governments are actively helping the airlines.


Other than propping up Aerolineas Argentinas, (something that was already a daily occurrence before COVID) the government in Argentina is not doing anything to support the private airline sector. Now, they are freaking out after LATAM decided to close LATAM Argentina, but it may just be too late.


OTOH, where is Argentina going to get funds from to assist the private carriers? Given Argentina's current situation and past behaviour, Argentina really can't turn to the markets for emergency funding.
 
dcajet
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Re: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:32 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Kilgen wrote:

Copa went to the market to get funding. They got $300 million from the banks and sold $350 million in bonds convertibles to shares. With a burn rate of aprox. $85 million a month, they should have some breathing room until December.

Well, Copa did not suspend service because they wanted. The Panamanian Government closed all international operations from Panama so they had no choice but also shut down temporarily.

The issue is that other than Argentina and maybe Brazil, none of the Latin american governments are actively helping the airlines.


Other than propping up Aerolineas Argentinas, (something that was already a daily occurrence before COVID) the government in Argentina is not doing anything to support the private airline sector. Now, they are freaking out after LATAM decided to close LATAM Argentina, but it may just be too late.


OTOH, where is Argentina going to get funds from to assist the private carriers? Given Argentina's current situation and past behaviour, Argentina really can't turn to the markets for emergency funding.


If the government wanted to, the money would be found - or it would be printed. They don't seem to have a problem finding the resources to fund what they want to. They are propping up AR to the tune of US$700M. OTOH, and just playing devil's advocate here, the government could well say "listen, we are already spending US$700M on AR at a time of great need for all. If that saves 70% of the airline activity in Argentina, well, be it. The private sector will have to look for help someplace else".
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
gaystudpilot
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Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:55 pm

Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:45 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Soooo... relating to Delta...
- JV partner Virgin Australia enters administration
- 20% stake in LATAM - Ch. 11 Bankruptcy
- 49% stake in Virgin Atlantic - Expected to enter administration
- 49% stake in Aeromexico - Expected to file for Ch. 11 bankruptcy.

Unfortunate.


Brain lapse. How are these investments structured? If stock, I can understand why they will significantly evaporate. But could they be structured another way, eg, as a creditor, loans back by assets as collateral?
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:40 pm

AM statement:

Image

= No we have not decided to file Ch.11, but yes we are exploring our options.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
gaystudpilot
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:55 pm

Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:48 pm

gaystudpilot wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Soooo... relating to Delta...
- JV partner Virgin Australia enters administration
- 20% stake in LATAM - Ch. 11 Bankruptcy
- 49% stake in Virgin Atlantic - Expected to enter administration
- 49% stake in Aeromexico - Expected to file for Ch. 11 bankruptcy.

Unfortunate.


Brain lapse. How are these investments structured? If stock, I can understand why they will significantly evaporate. But could they be structured another way, eg, as a creditor, loans back by assets as collateral?


Google search is my friend. Re Aeromexico ownership:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/delta-successfully-completes-cash-tender-offer-for-additional-shares-of-grupo-aeromexico-300422388.html
 
n7371f
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:27 am

Told from inside Delta HQ that expectation is AM will file Ch 11 in US. No response to whether or not DAL is assisting legally.

Ishrion wrote:
Aeromexico says it has not made the decision to initiate Ch. 11 Bankruptcy:

https://twitter.com/SOYCarlosMota/statu ... 9270020097
 
airhansa
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:47 am

What are the cross-ownership laws on airlines between Europe, Latin America and the US? Consolidation is really required in the airline industry.
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:08 pm

n7371f wrote:
Told from inside Delta HQ that expectation is AM will file Ch 11 in US. No response to whether or not DAL is assisting legally.

Ishrion wrote:
Aeromexico says it has not made the decision to initiate Ch. 11 Bankruptcy:

https://twitter.com/SOYCarlosMota/statu ... 9270020097


Assist? Delta needs assistance itself.

With Delta’s equity in foreign JV partners evaporating all over the world, a Swissair 2.0 is not beyond the realm of possibility.
 
global1
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:09 pm

As unlikely as AA,UA, or DL will ‘disappear’, The same goes for KE, AM,LA

These carriers will partner with DL coming out the other end of this.
 
Vicenza
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:45 pm

airhansa wrote:
What are the cross-ownership laws on airlines between Europe, Latin America and the US? Consolidation is really required in the airline industry.


Why is it 'really' required.....and to best suit whom?
 
airhansa
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:22 pm

Vicenza wrote:
airhansa wrote:
What are the cross-ownership laws on airlines between Europe, Latin America and the US? Consolidation is really required in the airline industry.


Why is it 'really' required.....and to best suit whom?


I always feel that regional monopolies don't work, as in the UK with their regional railway franchises. Consumers need choice between airlines, and airlines need a big enough market to make a profit, so there simply isn't enough room for competition when a national airline is present. American Airlines does not need to exist, and British Airways is a classic example of the pitfalls involved.
 
Jomar777
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Re: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:31 pm

Thibault973 wrote:
mozart wrote:
Wow... which large Latin American airline/group hasn't filed for Ch. 11 yet? GOL, COPA - any other?


GOL is expected to enter Ch. 11 sooner than later. They are going tru and independent audit right now and is expected to file for bankruptcy in the coming weeks.


Source???
 
dstblj52
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:03 am

millionsofmiles wrote:
n7371f wrote:
Told from inside Delta HQ that expectation is AM will file Ch 11 in US. No response to whether or not DAL is assisting legally.

Ishrion wrote:
Aeromexico says it has not made the decision to initiate Ch. 11 Bankruptcy:

https://twitter.com/SOYCarlosMota/statu ... 9270020097


Assist? Delta needs assistance itself.

With Delta’s equity in foreign JV partners evaporating all over the world, a Swissair 2.0 is not beyond the realm of possibility.

I mean it is Swissair got hit because they spent all their reserves buying other airlines and was the major creditor to said airlines, Delta basically never loans money to its JV partners and while Delta is losing the value of its shares I suspect most of these deals have already paid for themselves
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:13 am

T4thH wrote:
Insertnamehere wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Soooo... relating to Delta...
- JV partner Virgin Australia enters administration
- 20% stake in LATAM - Ch. 11 Bankruptcy
- 49% stake in Virgin Atlantic - Expected to enter administration
- 49% stake in Aeromexico - Expected to file for Ch. 11 bankruptcy.

Unfortunate.


Getting some Etihad vibes for failed investments


The difference is, Etihad has actively destroyed the airlines, they have been invested in. They have tried to modify the airlines to a 100% support airline to transfer the passengers to the Ethihad hubs, for further transport with Ethihad. Ethihad has actively executed one airline after another.

The DL investment airlines got just the same illness as all airlines of the world now, perhaps with exception of some freighter airlines. They got COVID-19.

I was getting Etihad Equity alliance DejaVu all over again. It was a similar strategy, invest in airlines not doing so well and provide management consulting.

The difference is AF/KL will survive and regrow to be valuable partners. DL was late to abandoning Japan for partner connections with partner KE.

The difference is DL is also an asset to partners. EY was buying feed, DL also supplies it.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
Thibault973
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Re: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:27 am

Jomar777 wrote:
Thibault973 wrote:
mozart wrote:
Wow... which large Latin American airline/group hasn't filed for Ch. 11 yet? GOL, COPA - any other?


GOL is expected to enter Ch. 11 sooner than later. They are going tru and independent audit right now and is expected to file for bankruptcy in the coming weeks.


Source???


https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SS0N29X00L
 
Jomar777
Posts: 554
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:27 am

Thibault973 wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
Thibault973 wrote:

GOL is expected to enter Ch. 11 sooner than later. They are going tru and independent audit right now and is expected to file for bankruptcy in the coming weeks.


Source???


https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SS0N29X00L


Excellent!! Thanks for this.

But I think that GOL is still a bit of a way off on this. Remember that the Brazilian arm of LATAM has not been included on the Chapter 11 filling (in fact is now flying their A359 to LHR now). Avianca was saddled before COVID19 having lost their Oceanair arm in Brazil (called Avianca Brasil).

But I gather that you may have a case here
 
Thibault973
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Re: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:34 pm

Jomar777 wrote:

But I think that GOL is still a bit of a way off on this. Remember that the Brazilian arm of LATAM has not been included on the Chapter 11 filling (in fact is now flying their A359 to LHR now). Avianca was saddled before COVID19 having lost their Oceanair arm in Brazil (called Avianca Brasil).

But I gather that you may have a case here


The thing is while JJ was making money (not a lot I’ll give you that) pre-covid, G3 was already loss making. They were on the right track, having shrunk their itl ops a little bit and got rid of their older 73H/G but still were not in the greatest shape. I fly them a lot since they are the biggest player in Rio and generally offer the cheapest fares and most flights in the domestic market altogether but they also offer by far the worst product, compared to JJ, AD and even O6 (who had the best product in Brasil). They’ve getting their act together ever since they introduced their new livery but prior to that they were a mess. One of my worst travel, if not the worst, was on them, when I just wanted to make a quick GIG-FOR op and ended up on a 20 journey with stops in GRU and NAT. Anyway, wish them the best.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:15 pm

dstblj52 wrote:
millionsofmiles wrote:
n7371f wrote:
Told from inside Delta HQ that expectation is AM will file Ch 11 in US. No response to whether or not DAL is assisting legally.



Assist? Delta needs assistance itself.

With Delta’s equity in foreign JV partners evaporating all over the world, a Swissair 2.0 is not beyond the realm of possibility.

I mean it is Swissair got hit because they spent all their reserves buying other airlines and was the major creditor to said airlines, Delta basically never loans money to its JV partners and while Delta is losing the value of its shares I suspect most of these deals have already paid for themselves


There's no way Delta has recouped equity investments as recent as 3 years ago, such as the $620 million in Aeromexico from 2017. The early Virgin and AF/KLM investments, sure - but alot of spending has been done recently, while DL's coffers were fat. Most unfortunate for them.
 
Boston757
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:39 pm

Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:48 pm

This news of all the airlines is so sad.
 
boeing773er
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Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:23 pm

Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:02 pm

Insertnamehere wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Soooo... relating to Delta...
- JV partner Virgin Australia enters administration
- 20% stake in LATAM - Ch. 11 Bankruptcy
- 49% stake in Virgin Atlantic - Expected to enter administration
- 49% stake in Aeromexico - Expected to file for Ch. 11 bankruptcy.

Unfortunate.


Getting some Etihad vibes for failed investments


While DLs investment right now appear to be unsound, at the time they made complete sense. Covid changed everything.

LATAM and Aeromexico were both leaders in their respected market. VS was a secondary leader in one of the most difficult markets to penetrate. VA on the other hand, doesn’t make too much sense. They’ve been a mess since inception, and Australia isn’t one of the largest markets.

With Etihad when their investments were made, they never made sense. It was a giant dart board. Those airlines were struggling even when the airline market was good.
Work Hard, Fly Right.
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:45 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
millionsofmiles wrote:

Assist? Delta needs assistance itself.

With Delta’s equity in foreign JV partners evaporating all over the world, a Swissair 2.0 is not beyond the realm of possibility.

I mean it is Swissair got hit because they spent all their reserves buying other airlines and was the major creditor to said airlines, Delta basically never loans money to its JV partners and while Delta is losing the value of its shares I suspect most of these deals have already paid for themselves


There's no way Delta has recouped equity investments as recent as 3 years ago, such as the $620 million in Aeromexico from 2017. The early Virgin and AF/KLM investments, sure - but alot of spending has been done recently, while DL's coffers were fat. Most unfortunate for them.


Most unfortunate for Delta. The $620 million lost with AM; $2.3 billion lost with LATAM; $100 million lost in a potential GOL BK...plus we don’t know what Korean will do, and there’s the additional spending you cite with the VS and AF/KLM investments. Then there’s always the possibility that the new post-BK companies will sever their old ties with DL. The ramifications of this huge money pit are potentially dire for Delta.
 
dcajet
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Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:11 pm

millionsofmiles wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
I mean it is Swissair got hit because they spent all their reserves buying other airlines and was the major creditor to said airlines, Delta basically never loans money to its JV partners and while Delta is losing the value of its shares I suspect most of these deals have already paid for themselves


There's no way Delta has recouped equity investments as recent as 3 years ago, such as the $620 million in Aeromexico from 2017. The early Virgin and AF/KLM investments, sure - but alot of spending has been done recently, while DL's coffers were fat. Most unfortunate for them.


Most unfortunate for Delta. The $620 million lost with AM; $2.3 billion lost with LATAM; $100 million lost in a potential GOL BK...plus we don’t know what Korean will do, and there’s the additional spending you cite with the VS and AF/KLM investments. Then there’s always the possibility that the new post-BK companies will sever their old ties with DL. The ramifications of this huge money pit are potentially dire for Delta.


Bit of Schadenfreude perhaps? Seems so from reading your posts...
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
dstblj52
Posts: 411
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:19 pm

boeing773er wrote:
Insertnamehere wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Soooo... relating to Delta...
- JV partner Virgin Australia enters administration
- 20% stake in LATAM - Ch. 11 Bankruptcy
- 49% stake in Virgin Atlantic - Expected to enter administration
- 49% stake in Aeromexico - Expected to file for Ch. 11 bankruptcy.

Unfortunate.


Getting some Etihad vibes for failed investments


While DLs investment right now appear to be unsound, at the time they made complete sense. Covid changed everything.

LATAM and Aeromexico were both leaders in their respected market. VS was a secondary leader in one of the most difficult markets to penetrate. VA on the other hand, doesn’t make too much sense. They’ve been a mess since inception, and Australia isn’t one of the largest markets.

With Etihad when their investments were made, they never made sense. It was a giant dart board. Those airlines were struggling even when the airline market was good.

Delta never bought a stake in VA and I don't think was ever planning to but forming a JV probably made sense in that it allows for better schedule cordination, was VA ideal choice no but it was better then the alternative no JV.
 
Biophobe99
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:46 pm

millionsofmiles wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
I mean it is Swissair got hit because they spent all their reserves buying other airlines and was the major creditor to said airlines, Delta basically never loans money to its JV partners and while Delta is losing the value of its shares I suspect most of these deals have already paid for themselves


There's no way Delta has recouped equity investments as recent as 3 years ago, such as the $620 million in Aeromexico from 2017. The early Virgin and AF/KLM investments, sure - but alot of spending has been done recently, while DL's coffers were fat. Most unfortunate for them.


Most unfortunate for Delta. The $620 million lost with AM; $2.3 billion lost with LATAM; $100 million lost in a potential GOL BK...plus we don’t know what Korean will do, and there’s the additional spending you cite with the VS and AF/KLM investments. Then there’s always the possibility that the new post-BK companies will sever their old ties with DL. The ramifications of this huge money pit are potentially dire for Delta.


While it is entirely possible that these airlines would sever ties with DL (Minus GOL, they’re done already) its highly unlikely. AM, KE, VS all currently have JVs with DL and LATAM is working towards establishing one with DL. As long as DL keeps the JV with them I think they’ll be content. After all, these deals were all about access to markets that DL couldn’t provide to the same extent.
 
Jomar777
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:31 am

Folks and Moderators: Asking very nicely since all posts are quite interesting. May I ask that we concentrate on this thread about Aeromexico's situation (maybe some Latin American overall woes too...).

I see that Delta comments are starting to highjack this thread.

I actually would suggest starting a separate thread for Delta's (failed or otherwise) investments so that these can be discussed more in dept there. I am sorry I do not create one since I am not too versed neither have fonts in regards to Delta's overall strategy.
 
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vhtje
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:16 am

Jomar777 wrote:
Folks and Moderators: Asking very nicely since all posts are quite interesting. May I ask that we concentrate on this thread about Aeromexico's situation (maybe some Latin American overall woes too...).

I see that Delta comments are starting to highjack this thread.

I actually would suggest starting a separate thread for Delta's (failed or otherwise) investments so that these can be discussed more in dept there. I am sorry I do not create one since I am not too versed neither have fonts in regards to Delta's overall strategy.


This is airliners.net. EVERY thread has to become a DL-fest. Every. Single. Time. It could be a thread about domestic flying in Azerbaijan, and inevitably, three posts in, someone will mention DL and BOOM we are talking about Delta. Yet a-bloddy-gain.

If you look at the thread list, the "DL Plans to Emerge a Smaller Carrier" thread has garnered 236,666 views in just 3 months. That more than the 737Max thread (214k views) and the 777X Testing thread (232k views) have each garnered in 5 months. Only the United Fleet thread has had more views, but it is a much longer lifespan.

I don't know why DL is so loved, above and beyond other carriers, on this forum. Having said that, DL does have quite a big influence in matters at Aeromexico, so some mention of DL is appropriate and inevitable on this thread.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
Jomar777
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:43 pm

vhtje wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
Folks and Moderators: Asking very nicely since all posts are quite interesting. May I ask that we concentrate on this thread about Aeromexico's situation (maybe some Latin American overall woes too...).

I see that Delta comments are starting to highjack this thread.

I actually would suggest starting a separate thread for Delta's (failed or otherwise) investments so that these can be discussed more in dept there. I am sorry I do not create one since I am not too versed neither have fonts in regards to Delta's overall strategy.


This is airliners.net. EVERY thread has to become a DL-fest. Every. Single. Time. It could be a thread about domestic flying in Azerbaijan, and inevitably, three posts in, someone will mention DL and BOOM we are talking about Delta. Yet a-bloddy-gain.

If you look at the thread list, the "DL Plans to Emerge a Smaller Carrier" thread has garnered 236,666 views in just 3 months. That more than the 737Max thread (214k views) and the 777X Testing thread (232k views) have each garnered in 5 months. Only the United Fleet thread has had more views, but it is a much longer lifespan.

I don't know why DL is so loved, above and beyond other carriers, on this forum. Having said that, DL does have quite a big influence in matters at Aeromexico, so some mention of DL is appropriate and inevitable on this thread.


I definitely share your feelings and it gets into nerves sometimes because we might want to talk about Delta sometimes but NOT all the time (!!!)

I know it is relevant somehow to Delta but not as much as warrant a real thread highjack.

That's why I mentioned that we could discuss DL's equity investments on a dedicated thread...
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:07 pm

AM says its reviewing its fleet and network plans for next 2-years. Expects 55-60% decline in demand by December, and not expecting full recovery for 3-years.

Says airline does not want to "rescue", but instead "support" and exploring financing options.

Hoping Delta remains a shareholder, but DL will not be able unable to financially participate in restructuring AM so other alternatives must be explored.


https://www.eleconomista.com.mx/empresa ... -0015.html
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Rumor: Aeroméxico to file for Chapter 11

Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:29 pm

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