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Venatt
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Delta A350 in El Paso

Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:28 am

This afternoon I was walking and suddenly noticed what it looked like a big Delta Airlines Plane taking off from El Paso so I came to this page and found out it's a Delta A350 http://www.elpasointernationalairport.com/flights but I seems to be there are several flights to and from Minneapolis and Detroit to El Paso. Because El Paso is a regional Airport I guess these must be flights landing and taking off from Biggs Army Airfield which is next to ELP and they must be flying Army Troops from and to Fort Bliss.
 
reltney
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:17 am

Yes it is for the troops. One was in Houston this week heading to Central America. The fleet is busy.
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
N212R
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:51 am

A couple of questions come to mind:

Why does the US Dept of Defense use Delta, a private company, to transport government employees?
Don't the Feds have contracts with charter or other operators to fly troops?

Are there particular advantages to using the A350 for these routes?
 
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smithbs
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:56 am

N212R wrote:
A couple of questions come to mind:

Why does the US Dept of Defense use Delta, a private company, to transport government employees?
Don't the Feds have contracts with charter or other operators to fly troops?

Are there particular advantages to using the A350 for these routes?


Delta offers charters, just like most everyone else. The more typical mil charter airlines like Omni are still private companies too (or publicly traded, which I think is what you are thinking about too). Nobody has cornered the market on DoD charters - it's spread across many operators.
 
Jomar777
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:35 am

smithbs wrote:
N212R wrote:
A couple of questions come to mind:

Why does the US Dept of Defense use Delta, a private company, to transport government employees?
Don't the Feds have contracts with charter or other operators to fly troops?

Are there particular advantages to using the A350 for these routes?


Delta offers charters, just like most everyone else. The more typical mil charter airlines like Omni are still private companies too (or publicly traded, which I think is what you are thinking about too). Nobody has cornered the market on DoD charters - it's spread across many operators.


Also, there might be the fact that Delta is offering very attractive deals since it has its aircraft grounded due to COVID19 so a good way to use their (vast...) spare capacity.

Whether the A350 holds operational advantage, I am not sure and cannot tell but it would make a very good USP when selling the charters if you can promise them to be served by brand new aircraft...
 
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Polot
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:12 am

Jomar777 wrote:
Whether the A350 holds operational advantage, I am not sure and cannot tell but it would make a very good USP when selling the charters if you can promise them to be served by brand new aircraft...

The people negotiating the charter probably don’t care. It really comes down to the US military telling DL how many people they want to move, when, where, and then a price request. DL will select whatever aircraft based on the requirements and aircraft availability, which granted they have a lot of right now. The people procuring the charter can’t justify a higher price with “it’s a newer aircraft” if competitors are offering comparable or better prices with aircraft deemed safe.


As others have mentioned the military pretty much charters with everyone. In the US government you have to fill out a ton of paperwork to sole source something and justify only using one vendor- you can’t show any favoritism. That would be hard to do/justify for troop charters as there are many equivalent airlines able to do charters.
Last edited by Polot on Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:15 am

N212R wrote:
Why does the US Dept of Defense use Delta, a private company, to transport government employees?
Don't the Feds have contracts with charter or other operators to fly troops?


Count the passenger narrowbodies and widebodies operated by DL/AA/UA vs. the U.S. govt or other charter operators.

For decades the Civil Reserve Airfleet has made these aircraft available for military needs on short notice. https://www.transportation.gov/mission/ ... llocations
 
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STT757
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:11 pm

N212R wrote:
A couple of questions come to mind:

Why does the US Dept of Defense use Delta, a private company, to transport government employees?
Don't the Feds have contracts with charter or other operators to fly troops?

Are there particular advantages to using the A350 for these routes?


Most of the US airlines do them, even Southwest.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
gon2fly
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:25 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
N212R wrote:
Why does the US Dept of Defense use Delta, a private company, to transport government employees?
Don't the Feds have contracts with charter or other operators to fly troops?
For decades the Civil Reserve Airfleet has made these aircraft available for military needs on short notice. https://www.transportation.gov/mission/ ... llocations


These are not CRAF missions. Although the commercial carriers ARE available for CRAF when needed, CRAF is essentially a wartime footing option that would utilize/offer the commercial fleets and assets as needed. At my airline we (pilots) designate that we would be interested in performing missions for CRAF, but....completely separate operation than just everyday mil charter. This Delta flight would be just a regular military charter, and you will find that almost all the US carriers are utilized for this mission. I know my airline is running some 777 charters out of Texas this coming week, but just normal troop movements here to there. I have flown multiple military charters during my career.....but never any designated as CRAF.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:45 pm

These are military charters to move and fly troops between bases.
The government has a very rigid procurement process where they put out RFPs for flight requests and the airlines will bid on the flying. There is a myriad of other things in the bid requests and in the bid awards and like other said the qualified airlines that are in the pool, it tends to get split out amongst the various carriers involved.

Its more noticable now since there is so much less regular scheduled passenger flights right now, an airline like DL may be bidding and/or bidding less on the flying with the intend of keeping their airplanes utilized.

In the past DL did a lot of the military charters domestically with 757 and 767s. Overseas a lot was done with the A330 and the 744. A350 was rare but obviously now with the slack and its the only widebody fleet that has every frame now back in service.
 
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william
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:56 pm

STT757 wrote:
N212R wrote:
A couple of questions come to mind:

Why does the US Dept of Defense use Delta, a private company, to transport government employees?
Don't the Feds have contracts with charter or other operators to fly troops?

Are there particular advantages to using the A350 for these routes?


Most of the US airlines do them, even Southwest.


True, if one is near GRK which shares the field with Ft.Hood, you will not have wait long to see widebodies from major airlines and charter companies. One will even see some SWA action flying troops to the field. And the C-5s doing touch and gos from San Antonio.
 
catiii
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:11 pm

N212R wrote:
A couple of questions come to mind:

Why does the US Dept of Defense use Delta, a private company, to transport government employees?
Don't the Feds have contracts with charter or other operators to fly troops?

Are there particular advantages to using the A350 for these routes?


Delta isn’t privately held. It’s a publicly traded company. Other charter operators are also both publicly traded and privately held. Not sure what the point is about private or public companies is even relevant for in terms of charter airlift.
 
galapagapop
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:04 pm

gon2fly wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
N212R wrote:
Why does the US Dept of Defense use Delta, a private company, to transport government employees?
Don't the Feds have contracts with charter or other operators to fly troops?
For decades the Civil Reserve Airfleet has made these aircraft available for military needs on short notice. https://www.transportation.gov/mission/ ... llocations


These are not CRAF missions. Although the commercial carriers ARE available for CRAF when needed, CRAF is essentially a wartime footing option that would utilize/offer the commercial fleets and assets as needed. At my airline we (pilots) designate that we would be interested in performing missions for CRAF, but....completely separate operation than just everyday mil charter. This Delta flight would be just a regular military charter, and you will find that almost all the US carriers are utilized for this mission. I know my airline is running some 777 charters out of Texas this coming week, but just normal troop movements here to there. I have flown multiple military charters during my career.....but never any designated as CRAF.

Actually these are technically CRAF related though. To get access to GSA City Pairs (Gov travel) and to get access to charter flights with the DoD, you submit aircraft tail numbers as part of a potential CRAF activation. These aircraft fall into different size categories and are given a point value (Mobility Value Point). These MVP points are weighted within each size category and DoD flying is supposed to be allocated based off each airline's share of MVP points.

What usually happens though, is DoD work can be extremely ad-hoc, so companies like Omni are better suited to having a dedicated fleet constantly doing DoD movements. To get this work with their relatively small fleets in CRAF, they have what are known as teaming arrangements, where carriers like Delta partner with several airlines and then sell their points to them. Allowing Delta's MVP points to still get their fair share of flying, but without taking needed widebody aircraft out of scheduled service or out of more lucrative charter flying (like NCAA football).

With the downturn, Delta can very easily pick up a lot of this charter work, whereas before you'd only see Delta really doing charters of this size during low seasons like September, or when DoD demand outstripped their teaming partners' ability to supply flying.

The only non-CRAF/MVP point based flying is the GOPAX program, which is narrowbody domestic troop movements, which would not utilize an A350.
Last edited by galapagapop on Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:14 pm

The City Pair Program includes AA, DL, UA, B6, WN, AS, and a few more airlines all for government employees.
 
sadde
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:28 pm

In terms of flying the 350 vs say 777 for these charters, my guess would be that marginal costs are lower, hence the frame choice.
 
Sooner787
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:06 pm

reltney wrote:
Yes it is for the troops. One was in Houston this week heading to Central America. The fleet is busy.


Maybe that explains the DL A359 I saw parked on the Terminal F ramp at DFW last Wednesday evening 17Jun.

First one I've seen in person, beautiful bird :)
 
FrancisBegbie
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:15 pm

sadde wrote:
In terms of flying the 350 vs say 777 for these charters, my guess would be that marginal costs are lower, hence the frame choice.


Agreed. All things equal (yes, that’s an ‘if’), the A350 has a lower fuel burn per seat-mile than the planes used by the usual charter companies.

In normal times, Delta may not like the opportunity costs (they’d rather fly it somewhere where they can sell all the business class seats), but now it would likely be standing on the tarmac somewhere if not for this flight.
 
jayunited
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:26 pm

N212R wrote:
A couple of questions come to mind:

Why does the US Dept of Defense use Delta, a private company, to transport government employees?
Don't the Feds have contracts with charter or other operators to fly troops?

Are there particular advantages to using the A350 for these routes?



In most cases the type of aircraft used is up to each individual airline. What the government does is they will inform the airline on the number of troops traveling and the expected weight of the gear that is to be loaded in the cargo hold. The airlines responsibility is to send an aircraft that is capable of carrying everything the government does not want to hear an airline is short 10 seats or they ran out of room below the wing before loading all the necessary gear, that is completely unacceptable. So If the government says they need to move for example 240 soldiers and 20,000 pounds of gear you need to send an aircraft that can easily accommodate all of it. I know UA we run computer simulations on various aircraft to make sure we can accommodate everything, not have a weight restriction or have a balance problem so when its time to execute the charter everything falls right into place.

While airlines want to make money in the case of United in most cases I think airlines will send an aircraft that exceeds what the government needs. The last thing any airline want to do piss off the military or be associated with leaving troops behind even if it is just moving them from one base to another base, the optics of it are bad.
 
N212R
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:44 am

smithbs wrote:
N212R wrote:
A couple of questions come to mind:

Why does the US Dept of Defense use Delta, a private company, to transport government employees?
Don't the Feds have contracts with charter or other operators to fly troops?

Are there particular advantages to using the A350 for these routes?


Delta offers charters, just like most everyone else. The more typical mil charter airlines like Omni are still private companies too (or publicly traded, which I think is what you are thinking about too). Nobody has cornered the market on DoD charters - it's spread across many operators.


How much DoD charter service did Delta do pre-COVID?
 
reednavy
Posts: 59
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:50 pm

N212R wrote:
smithbs wrote:
N212R wrote:
A couple of questions come to mind:

Why does the US Dept of Defense use Delta, a private company, to transport government employees?
Don't the Feds have contracts with charter or other operators to fly troops?

Are there particular advantages to using the A350 for these routes?


Delta offers charters, just like most everyone else. The more typical mil charter airlines like Omni are still private companies too (or publicly traded, which I think is what you are thinking about too). Nobody has cornered the market on DoD charters - it's spread across many operators.


How much DoD charter service did Delta do pre-COVID?

I'm not sure, but back in April, there were 5 flights between CAE & TBN using 1 A319, 2 A220, & 2 737 aircraft in a single day. That's an absurd amount it seems, but given the strict social distancing in the DoD, I can see the reasoning.
 
Dalmd88
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Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:18 pm

N212R wrote:
smithbs wrote:
N212R wrote:
A couple of questions come to mind:

Why does the US Dept of Defense use Delta, a private company, to transport government employees?
Don't the Feds have contracts with charter or other operators to fly troops?

Are there particular advantages to using the A350 for these routes?


Delta offers charters, just like most everyone else. The more typical mil charter airlines like Omni are still private companies too (or publicly traded, which I think is what you are thinking about too). Nobody has cornered the market on DoD charters - it's spread across many operators.


How much DoD charter service did Delta do pre-COVID?

Delta has done a lot of military charters for years. Same with sports charters. Many of the old charter only airlines have gone under.

I think they just were not as noticeable before, except for the odd widebody sighting at a place like ELP.
 
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Polot
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:55 pm

Dalmd88 wrote:
N212R wrote:
smithbs wrote:

Delta offers charters, just like most everyone else. The more typical mil charter airlines like Omni are still private companies too (or publicly traded, which I think is what you are thinking about too). Nobody has cornered the market on DoD charters - it's spread across many operators.


How much DoD charter service did Delta do pre-COVID?

Delta has done a lot of military charters for years. Same with sports charters. Many of the old charter only airlines have gone under.

I think they just were not as noticeable before, except for the odd widebody sighting at a place like ELP.

Yes, military (and other) charters were just always lost in the noise. Now that there are less scheduled activity the charters are more evident. If you want proof of that just look at the Delta Widebody Thread from last year (Link). Practically every update (usually by hkcanadaexpat) has a charter somewhere in it, and keep in mind that is just the wide body charters.
 
PA12
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:39 am

What is do odd about widebodies at “place like ELP”? What is it with El Paso? Is it that “odd”? 5th safest large city in the US this year, 300 days of sun......hmmm, I wonder where you live....
El Paso has has widebody service as estoy as 1973 and up to la late 80’s early 90’s. AA with 762s, and both AA and CO with DC10 ‘s off and on. And today still gets military charters by Omni, Atlas, etc. 763’s, 777, 744’s.....
And cargo, Fedex, MD10, MD11, 777, 763, UPS, A300 and DHL or Abx, Polar etc, 762,763. All of them daily with múltiple flights. Occasional AN124 also.
 
Dalmd88
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Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:30 am

PA12 wrote:
What is do odd about widebodies at “place like ELP”? What is it with El Paso? Is it that “odd”? 5th safest large city in the US this year, 300 days of sun......hmmm, I wonder where you live....
El Paso has has widebody service as estoy as 1973 and up to la late 80’s early 90’s. AA with 762s, and both AA and CO with DC10 ‘s off and on. And today still gets military charters by Omni, Atlas, etc. 763’s, 777, 744’s.....
And cargo, Fedex, MD10, MD11, 777, 763, UPS, A300 and DHL or Abx, Polar etc, 762,763. All of them daily with múltiple flights. Occasional AN124 also.

Wide body for domestic anywhere in the US is now a rarity. My first wide body trip was in 1976. A DC10 out of SYR. Not a very large city then or even now. About the only time that city now sees a wide body passenger flight is a military charter for Fort Drum or a diversion for weather in JFK. If a city is not a major international hub or destination passenger wide bodies are a strange site.
 
n9801f
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:29 am

Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:36 am

PA12 although ELP does see widebodies today, it’s odd to see a passenger widebody there.

Today (especially compared with 70’s/80’s/90’s) there are fewer widebodies in scheduled US domestic service. They’re almost all used on international routes instead.

So passenger widebodies rarely go to medium-sized cities like ELP now.
 
dstblj52
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:57 pm

Looks like Deltas building up of a charter business that wasn't wildly profitable is paying off right now at least.
 
PA12
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:31 pm

Yes, that is true, like you say, it’s not only ELP.....there are a bunch more, ABQ, TUS, SAT, OMA, COS, etc.
 
reednavy
Posts: 59
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:50 pm

dstblj52 wrote:
Looks like Deltas building up of a charter business that wasn't wildly profitable is paying off right now at least.

There as an A350 that came from and went back to DTW from Pope AAF (POB) last night. It was quite a sight to see that suddenly above the treeline here at Fort Bragg.
 
Venatt
Topic Author
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:58 am

Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:21 am

PA12 wrote:
What is do odd about widebodies at “place like ELP”? What is it with El Paso? Is it that “odd”? 5th safest large city in the US this year, 300 days of sun......hmmm, I wonder where you live....
El Paso has has widebody service as estoy as 1973 and up to la late 80’s early 90’s. AA with 762s, and both AA and CO with DC10 ‘s off and on. And today still gets military charters by Omni, Atlas, etc. 763’s, 777, 744’s.....
And cargo, Fedex, MD10, MD11, 777, 763, UPS, A300 and DHL or Abx, Polar etc, 762,763. All of them daily with múltiple flights. Occasional AN124 also.


Just to clarify, these Delta A350's, 777 and 767 don't land at ELP and troops don't board them at the passenger terminal, they actually land at Biggs Army Air Field which is parallel to ELP. They use stair trucks at the Base to board and deplane those wide body jets. I also saw some Delta's 747-400 at the Base before they were retired. But yes, back in the 80's there was an American Airlines DC10 passenger flight from ELP to DFW that took off every morning, I flew in one back in 1987. I don't remember ever seen a AA 767.
 
alpine1989
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:07 pm

Venatt wrote:
PA12 wrote:
What is do odd about widebodies at “place like ELP”? What is it with El Paso? Is it that “odd”? 5th safest large city in the US this year, 300 days of sun......hmmm, I wonder where you live....
El Paso has has widebody service as estoy as 1973 and up to la late 80’s early 90’s. AA with 762s, and both AA and CO with DC10 ‘s off and on. And today still gets military charters by Omni, Atlas, etc. 763’s, 777, 744’s.....
And cargo, Fedex, MD10, MD11, 777, 763, UPS, A300 and DHL or Abx, Polar etc, 762,763. All of them daily with múltiple flights. Occasional AN124 also.


Just to clarify, these Delta A350's, 777 and 767 don't land at ELP and troops don't board them at the passenger terminal, they actually land at Biggs Army Air Field which is parallel to ELP. They use stair trucks at the Base to board and deplane those wide body jets. I also saw some Delta's 747-400 at the Base before they were retired. But yes, back in the 80's there was an American Airlines DC10 passenger flight from ELP to DFW that took off every morning, I flew in one back in 1987. I don't remember ever seen a AA 767.


Negative. DOD is using KELP due to construction at KBIF.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/NCR ... /MUGM/KELP

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KJFK/KELP

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CMB ... /KSDF/KELP


Alpine
 
496TFS
Posts: 22
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:32 pm

Germany has a very large military contingent in the area. Or, at least they used to. Could be charters back to Germany.
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 52
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:36 pm

N212R wrote:
A couple of questions come to mind:

Why does the US Dept of Defense use Delta, a private company, to transport government employees?
Don't the Feds have contracts with charter or other operators to fly troops?

Are there particular advantages to using the A350 for these routes?


Charter companies and “other operators” are private companies as well, so what’s the difference?
 
johns624
Posts: 2706
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:43 pm

FrancisBegbie wrote:
sadde wrote:
In terms of flying the 350 vs say 777 for these charters, my guess would be that marginal costs are lower, hence the frame choice.


Agreed. All things equal (yes, that’s an ‘if’), the A350 has a lower fuel burn per seat-mile than the planes used by the usual charter companies.

In normal times, Delta may not like the opportunity costs (they’d rather fly it somewhere where they can sell all the business class seats), but now it would likely be standing on the tarmac somewhere if not for this flight.
Some of it also probably has to do with keeping 350 crews current with the reduced flying. With the 777 soon to be retired, it's probably not as important to keep them current.
 
AAtakeMeAway
Posts: 461
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:59 am

Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:45 am

Never a scheduled 767 into ELP, just the AA DC-10. Around that time there was also a daily Luftwaffe 707 that would park at the circle part of the terminal area (the old CO mini hub)
 
PA12
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:58 am

I have seen the 767 and it operated for a few months , it was a 130 pm flight to DFW, and later was upgraded to a DC10 also, so you had a morning 930am and a 130 pm , both DC10s. I have taken both. The 130 flight would fly in from DFW at 12 noon. The other one would arrive around 11 pm and RON. I have also been on the noon flight and it was a full load. And in between the 2 Dc10 flights were a couple 72S or MD80 . And of course several other flights during the day to ORD, DFW or LAX. Now it’s almost all RJs.
AA also operated the 757 for a short time, so did Eastern.
 
PA12
Posts: 121
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Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:59 am

The Luftwaffe 707 was not daily, and later got upgraded to an A310.
 
PA12
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:04 am

And BIF, Biggs receives all the charters but not now. My friends and I went to Biggs once to greet a friend that was coming back from the Gulf war and came back in a TWA 747. Also have seen ATA L10’s at Biggs, and a few more I don’t remember now.
 
Venatt
Topic Author
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:58 am

Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:35 pm

alpine1989 wrote:
Venatt wrote:
PA12 wrote:
What is do odd about widebodies at “place like ELP”? What is it with El Paso? Is it that “odd”? 5th safest large city in the US this year, 300 days of sun......hmmm, I wonder where you live....
El Paso has has widebody service as estoy as 1973 and up to la late 80’s early 90’s. AA with 762s, and both AA and CO with DC10 ‘s off and on. And today still gets military charters by Omni, Atlas, etc. 763’s, 777, 744’s.....
And cargo, Fedex, MD10, MD11, 777, 763, UPS, A300 and DHL or Abx, Polar etc, 762,763. All of them daily with múltiple flights. Occasional AN124 also.


Just to clarify, these Delta A350's, 777 and 767 don't land at ELP and troops don't board them at the passenger terminal, they actually land at Biggs Army Air Field which is parallel to ELP. They use stair trucks at the Base to board and deplane those wide body jets. I also saw some Delta's 747-400 at the Base before they were retired. But yes, back in the 80's there was an American Airlines DC10 passenger flight from ELP to DFW that took off every morning, I flew in one back in 1987. I don't remember ever seen a AA 767.


Negative. DOD is using KELP due to construction at KBIF.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/NCR ... /MUGM/KELP

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KJFK/KELP

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CMB ... /KSDF/KELP


Alpine


I know the big freighters they all land at ELP and park the freighter terminal, but I'm surprised about Delta Widebodies at the pax terminal, I didn't know that. That means that the A350 most likely used the Jetway the other day. Are you sure these aren't regular pax flights ? Hopefully somebody can post a picture of the A350 at the ELP terminal, if not I'm gonna try to be there next time I see one on flightaware, even though it's very hard to find a place to take a good picture.
 
Venatt
Topic Author
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:58 am

Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:47 pm

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
Never a scheduled 767 into ELP, just the AA DC-10. Around that time there was also a daily Luftwaffe 707 that would park at the circle part of the terminal area (the old CO mini hub)



I do remember the Luftwaffe 707 back in the early mid 80's
 
AAtakeMeAway
Posts: 461
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:59 am

Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:24 pm

Thanks for the clarifications PA12, didn’t realize the second daily DC10 was once 767.
Can’t believe DFW-ELP is all Eagle now! Pre pandemic it was a mix of mainline and Eagle with at least one being LAA 321
 
PA12
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:48 pm

ELP today two DL A350’s, one to DTW, the other to AMS. There have been others these past few days, UA 773 to FRA ( Hahn), etc. AA slowly returning to mainline.
 
factsonly
Posts: 2927
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: Delta A350 in El Paso

Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:57 pm

An interesting routing for DL A359 N505DN out of El Paso over the last few days:

- 13 Jul 2020 LAX - El Paso (ELP) DL8822 A359 N505DN Landed 15:00
- 13 Jul 2020 ELP - Amsterdam (AMS) DL8956 A359 N505DN Landed 11:10
- 14 Jul 2020 AMS - Lviv (LWO) DL8957 A359 N505DN Landed 16:06
- 14 Jul 2020 LWO - Nurnberg (NUE) DL8822 A359 N505DN Landed 18:12
- 15 Jul 2020 NUE - Bordeaux (BOD) DL8956 A359 N505DN Departure 09:55
- 15 Jul 2020 BOD - Nurnberg (NUE) DL8822 A359 N505DN Departure 13:25

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n505dn

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