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dstblj52
Posts: 506
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: DOT now goes after India for impairing U.S airline rights

Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:47 pm

hohd wrote:
US also arranged some charters from India, but they chose only DL and not AI, which at that time was also flying. So India has a right to choose an Indian carrier. US State dept also can through UA or DL operate the "charter" flights now, just like India is doing through AI. These are special circumstances and most of these flights are government run.

Until international flights resume back to India and also until India permits US residents to visit India, this kind of arrangement will remain. India would not have blocked UA or DL if it was operated for and by the US government.

AI flights are being charged to the end-user right they simply don't meet the definition for 121 supplemental operations ergo (in the DOT's eyes) their not charter there scheduled ops and those according to the bilateral agreement cannot be a one-way arrangement, Its obvious by the fact that they are being sold by the GDS, with no additional package elements, interlining with traditional AI operations, simply don't meet the definition of being charter services operated for the indian government.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8414
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: DOT now goes after India for impairing U.S airline rights

Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:27 pm

CPS001 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

There are several issues the way Vande Bharat (JP) mission is implemented.

4) Not allowing foreign born kids of both Indian parents.
5) Not allowing overseas Indian origins if entire family has foreign citizenship.


Actually both of these are now allowed, provided at least one member (parent) has OCI or any form of Indian visa or Indian citizenship.


#5 is allowed only if there is a family emergency like death. Family of 4 all US Citizen OCIs, cannot go to India.

dstblj52 wrote:
AI flights are being charged to the end-user right they simply don't meet the definition for 121 supplemental operations ergo (in the DOT's eyes) their not charter there scheduled ops and those according to the bilateral agreement cannot be a one-way arrangement, Its obvious by the fact that they are being sold by the GDS, with no additional package elements, interlining with traditional AI operations, simply don't meet the definition of being charter services operated for the indian government.


AFAIK, AI never sold tickets to evacuees in the past, they might have made non-binding payment requests after repatriation. Government of India tried to sell railway tickets to stranded poor migrant workforce within the country in the middle of a pandemic, another bad move which resulted in a PR disaster. Just to prove that they are not collecting money from poor while evacuating air travelers for free, I think GoI asked AI to sell tickets, which is causing problems now. Layers of bad decisions.
All posts are just opinions.
 
dstblj52
Posts: 506
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: DOT now goes after India for impairing U.S airline rights

Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:03 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
CPS001 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

There are several issues the way Vande Bharat (JP) mission is implemented.

4) Not allowing foreign born kids of both Indian parents.
5) Not allowing overseas Indian origins if entire family has foreign citizenship.


Actually both of these are now allowed, provided at least one member (parent) has OCI or any form of Indian visa or Indian citizenship.


#5 is allowed only if there is a family emergency like death. Family of 4 all US Citizen OCIs, cannot go to India.

dstblj52 wrote:
AI flights are being charged to the end-user right they simply don't meet the definition for 121 supplemental operations ergo (in the DOT's eyes) their not charter there scheduled ops and those according to the bilateral agreement cannot be a one-way arrangement, Its obvious by the fact that they are being sold by the GDS, with no additional package elements, interlining with traditional AI operations, simply don't meet the definition of being charter services operated for the indian government.


AFAIK, AI never sold tickets to evacuees in the past, they might have made non-binding payment requests after repatriation. Government of India tried to sell railway tickets to stranded poor migrant workforce within the country in the middle of a pandemic, another bad move which resulted in a PR disaster. Just to prove that they are not collecting money from poor while evacuating air travelers for free, I think GoI asked AI to sell tickets, which is causing problems now. Layers of bad decisions.

No arguments their but if it was a government evacuation flight operated for free to the end consumer it likely would not have kicked up this kind of a mess, because its hard to argue that there is any economic value to such an operation which would be required to show damages and most countries will only bid charter work to there carriers, but the second they were charging to fly passengers out of India it became pretty clear its a protectionist market maneuver likely illegal under openskies, which leaves two options to stop or end the open skies treaty
 
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LAXintl
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Posts: 24732
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: DOT now goes after India for impairing U.S airline rights

Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:59 am

Looks like India relented.

United to operate 3 "repatriation" flights in the coming two weeks.

UA783/10Jul DEL-EWR
UA783/12Jul DEL-EWR
UA783/15Jul DEL-EWR

At the moment UA scheduled US-India service was planned to resume on July 17th pending Indian government lifting ban on international services, though I believe its being extended till July 31.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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mercure1
Posts: 4857
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: DOT now goes after India for impairing U.S airline rights

Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:24 am

News article.

United to operate three flights on the Delhi-Newark route from July 10
https://wap.business-standard.com/artic ... 208_1.html

Probably too little, too late, but good that India changed their stance.
mercure f-wtcc
 
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LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 24732
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: DOT now goes after India for impairing U.S airline rights

Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:24 pm

US-based United Airlines gets permission for charter flights >> https://www.aninews.in/news/national/ge ... 704204053/

Authority for the resumption of scheduled service pending.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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Boeing757100
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 10:09 pm

United Receives Permission To Conduct India Charter Flights

Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:05 pm

I think for cargo, but I'm still stumped. Here's the link I found this.
https://simpleflying.com/united-india-c ... ermission/
The 757-MAX is happening tomorrow.
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: United Receives Permission To Conduct India Charter Flights

Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:09 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
I think for cargo, but I'm still stumped. Here's the link I found this.
https://simpleflying.com/united-india-c ... ermission/


Repatriation flights according to the United response in the article. They're already operating cargo flights there.
 
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jetblastdubai
Posts: 1977
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

Re: United Receives Permission To Conduct India Charter Flights

Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:58 pm

ericm2031 wrote:

Repatriation flights according to the United response in the article. They're already operating cargo flights there.


Why didn't people return to their home country months ago and not 4-5 months into this "urgent crisis"? Not just India but a whole slew of citizens from other countries are supposedly being flown back to their home countries months after you would think they would have returned if it was that important. This goes for US citizens returning home in July or later as well.
 
phxa340
Posts: 1130
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:07 am

Re: DOT now goes after India for impairing U.S airline rights

Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:40 pm

maint123 wrote:
DL can cry all it wants. Indian Government has taken this decision to cover losses due to quite a few free repatriation flights initially. Trump can come and beg modi but the Indian government will drag this as long as possible. Getting quite sick of continuous american nonsense .


As opposed to all the nonsense that every country is pretty much spewing these days ?

FYI - Trump doesn’t need to beg , AI can be banned from the US, just like the US3 have been from India - see how that works ? Collaboration almost always yields better results than posturing.

But hey - thanks for the completely useless and prejudice post.
 
Antarius
Posts: 2541
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: United Receives Permission To Conduct India Charter Flights

Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:56 am

jetblastdubai wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:

Repatriation flights according to the United response in the article. They're already operating cargo flights there.


Why didn't people return to their home country months ago and not 4-5 months into this "urgent crisis"? Not just India but a whole slew of citizens from other countries are supposedly being flown back to their home countries months after you would think they would have returned if it was that important. This goes for US citizens returning home in July or later as well.


Not that easy. Took my gf's mother 2.5 months to get back from South America.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
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LAXintl
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Posts: 24732
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: DOT now goes after India for impairing U.S airline rights

Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:24 pm

United will operate daily EWR-DEL repatriation flight between Jul 23-28

Available for sale on united.com
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California

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